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Repeal of Obamacare (Page 7)
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Laminar
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Mar 14, 2017, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
We are one step away from the right blaming the left for allowing them to elect Republicans to **** things up.
That's already happened, on this forum no less. "People got sick of the Left's lies so the people voted out the leftists." "The Left is really regretting giving Obama so much EO power, they never expected it'd be used against them!"
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Mar 14, 2017, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Enacting a law takes political capital. There's no point to making the law without knowing how much is available to spend, so they shouldn't be faulted for waiting.

When it comes to dismantling current legislation without having completed a good portion of the grunt-work on the replacement? Fault away.
Exactamundo.
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Waragainstsleep
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Mar 15, 2017, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
That's already happened, on this forum no less. "People got sick of the Left's lies so the people voted out the leftists." "The Left is really regretting giving Obama so much EO power, they never expected it'd be used against them!"
Oh yeah. Shit.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 15, 2017, 08:12 PM
 
So Ryan now says they have to change the bill to pass. Which brings up the question: How? If they remove any subsidies they get the Freedom Caucus and the hard conservatives but loos the moderates and those in red states that expanded Medicaid. If they restore Medicaid the reverse. And likely, even if they pass it in the house there's enough R votes against either version to torpedo it.

And to shit on Rand Paul, since he needs it, calling this Obamacare Lite is absurd. It's a pat on the back and some spare change. Obamacare lite would removing exchanges, subsidies, the penalty most of the taxes and just leaving the medicaid expansion.
     
OreoCookie
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Mar 15, 2017, 08:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Enacting a law takes political capital. There's no point to making the law without knowing how much is available to spend, so they shouldn't be faulted for waiting.
I think that let's the GOP off the hook too easily, they were trying to have their cake and eat it, too. They've tried umpteenth times to repeal the ACA, and their message was clear: if it weren't for Obama's vetoes, we would get rid of the ACA entirely. Pointing out that this is legislative grandstanding to garner points with their voters, but lacks any consensus of how to actually tackle health care for Americans, is legitimate criticism. And yes, this may cost “political capital”, but if you don't want to be in the business of passing legislation, you should go back to your district or state and find another occupation.

You could also take an even more critical take: the main ideas of the ACA are based on Republican proposals from the 1990s to counter Clinton's health care plan, they were supposed to be the market-based alternative to a single payer or universal coverage system. With their staunch opposite to the ACA (for the purpose of winning elections more than anything else) they are lacking a well thought-out alternative.
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OAW
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Mar 15, 2017, 09:57 PM
 
He made it quite clear a month ago that there was political consensus within the GOP only on REPEAL. But as for REPLACE ... not so much.

Boehner: Republicans won't repeal and replace Obamacare - POLITICO

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The Final Dakar
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Mar 17, 2017, 11:07 AM
 

     
Laminar
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Mar 17, 2017, 11:14 AM
 
Does the article speculate on what would have happened if the current bill was in place?
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 17, 2017, 11:26 AM
 
No it's mostly an anecdote piece of talking with Trump voters on healthcare. It's from the wapo
     
Snow-i
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Mar 17, 2017, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Health care costs or health care premiums?

Covering swaths of previous uninsured or uninsurable people was bound to raise costs. Insurers didn't deny those with preexisting conditions because it was fun.

Obama repeatedly expressed his wish to increase subsidies to reduce premiums, but that would mean another tax hike, and that was politically impossible. He didn't want it to be unaffordable.

Premiums have gone up under Obama, and by a lot - a 26% increase from 2009-2014. But remember that health care premiums increased by 72% from 1999-2004 and 34% from 2004-2009.

Whether Obamacare limited health care costs from spiraling out of control as they had been doing for the past decade, or whether the slow in growth was the market naturally topping out, we need to look at the whole picture.
Precisely why the ACA and apparently the GOP replacement plan aren't worth the paper they're printed on. They do nothing to address these costs - only who's paying.
     
Laminar
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Mar 17, 2017, 01:34 PM
 
What about imposing minimum MLRs?
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 17, 2017, 01:35 PM
 
House vote is Thursday. Changes to come, will not have an updated CBO score
     
Snow-i
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Mar 17, 2017, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
What about imposing minimum MLRs?
I think that could be highly useful, but only alongside other reforms that make the "LR" part digestible for insurance providers. Actuaries aren't cheap, nor are the legion of lawyers needed for every step of the process.
     
Laminar
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Mar 17, 2017, 04:20 PM
 
So Obamacare's imposition of minimum MLRs was ineffective? I think quite a few states got out of it for fear of creating monopolies.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 19, 2017, 07:43 PM
 

What changed between this year and last year?





lulz
     
Snow-i
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Mar 20, 2017, 08:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
So Obamacare's imposition of minimum MLRs was ineffective? I think quite a few states got out of it for fear of creating monopolies.
Considering only a handful of the original insurance companies were able to stay in the exchanges and even then with huge losses - i would say yes. It definitely cut down consumer choice which is never a good thing for costs.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 21, 2017, 01:49 PM
 
Apparently the CBO estimates a full ACA repeal would cover 1 million more people 10 years down the line than the House proposal. How is Paul Ryan this bad at his job?
     
OAW
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Mar 21, 2017, 05:23 PM
 
Hard numbers on how many people have ACA coverage by Congressional District.

DOES YOUR MEMBER OF CONGRESS KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE ACA COVERAGE IN THEIR DISTRICT?

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The Final Dakar
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Mar 21, 2017, 05:43 PM
 
I have to say politically, I'm not sure what I'd do here if I were a republican. I think if I were a congressman, and knew it'd fail in the senate, I'd vote yes. I'd also vote yes if my state didn't take the expansion. Otherwise, ...eh.

Still, you can tell a lot of the fence sitters are just looking for any excuse to vote yes. Case in point:
Rep. Peter King says Trump pointed him out and said they grew up near each other. After that, "it would be hard for me to vote 'no.'"
https://twitter.com/CHueyBurns/statu...01893861777408
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 23, 2017, 09:51 AM
 
Any predictions on what happens today?
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 23, 2017, 12:04 PM
 
@ShaneGoldmacher: WH sending FULL squad to crucial House Freedom Caucus 11:30 meeting: Trump, Pence, Bannon, Priebus, Conway, HHS Sec. Price, Mulvaney
Wowzers
     
subego
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Mar 23, 2017, 12:10 PM
 
I bet while this is happening, Spicer sits on the throne and orders a pretend assassination.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 23, 2017, 01:11 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 23, 2017, 03:31 PM
 
This shit is getting postponed. What a train wreck.
     
OAW
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Mar 23, 2017, 09:56 PM
 
Because leave it to the GOP to have a photo op of all white males at a negotiation session where the most right-wing members of the House Republican caucus are demanding that Obamacare provisions that mandate insurance companies cover women's health services be rescinded. And Trump is agreeing to it.



Is there something wrong with this photo? - CNNPolitics.com

OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 24, 2017, 01:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
It's just so... stereotypical.
     
subego
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Mar 24, 2017, 12:01 PM
 
I like how even with the dearth of pixels, young Gene Siskel stands out.

And since he clearly just rewatched Reservoir Dogs, his new nickname is Mr. Puce.
     
subego
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Mar 24, 2017, 12:52 PM
 
I'm hearing no go.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 24, 2017, 01:17 PM
 
Yeah, I'm finally willing to lean that way. That's probably best for the GOP, but I am curious how this affects Ryan. And wether Trump tries to force the vote anyway.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 24, 2017, 03:39 PM
 
They're pulling the bill. L won't go away n the record.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 24, 2017, 04:20 PM
 
Somewhere Boehner is drunkenly laughing
     
Snow-i
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Mar 24, 2017, 04:42 PM
 
Good. It wasn't ready. It wasn't even.....anything.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 24, 2017, 05:52 PM
 
It was worse.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Good. It wasn't ready. It wasn't even.....anything.
Are you a little upset that this is what they came up with after 7 years, and not only that, but despite claiming that Obamacare was "crammed down throats" this bill came together in 17 days without possibly even reaching out to Republican senators, let alone any Democrats of any kind?
     
besson3c  (op)
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:07 AM
 
I don't ask that because I'm trying to score points for team blue, but hopefully to help encourage people to drop the teams altogether. We'd be far better off if we just ignored party politics, decide what we want, and just stick to our guns and find/create politicians that uphold these values regardless of party, while NEVER giving any particular party a free pass about anything.

We also need more people calling out party politics bullshit, including this.
     
subego
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Mar 27, 2017, 11:17 AM
 
As I said, there's no point in writing a bill without any idea of how much political capital is available to spend on it.

Edit: though for what it's worth, I just heard Michael Steele complain about the lack of preparation.
( Last edited by subego; Mar 27, 2017 at 11:37 AM. )
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 27, 2017, 10:55 PM
 

I don't follow republicans well enough to comment, but he has a point?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 28, 2017, 06:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post

I don't follow republicans well enough to comment, but he has a point?

Pretty sure I started a whole thread making this exact same point not so long ago.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...y-in-the-life/
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Mar 28, 2017, 06:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Pretty sure I started a whole thread making this exact same point not so long ago.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...y-in-the-life/
Your point was meant to cover only the last eight years? Why didn't you say so?
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 28, 2017, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Pretty sure I started a whole thread making this exact same point not so long ago.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...y-in-the-life/
If that was the point of posting a partisan email forward as a thread, it was lost on me.
     
subego
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Mar 28, 2017, 09:34 AM
 
The thread did ultimately go in that direction.
     
Snow-i
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Mar 28, 2017, 12:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Are you a little upset that this is what they came up with after 7 years, and not only that, but despite claiming that Obamacare was "crammed down throats" this bill came together in 17 days without possibly even reaching out to Republican senators, let alone any Democrats of any kind?
No. Unlike the ACA, I would prefer a system that isn't rammed through Congress via backroom deals. I would prefer that we actually address the issues with the market, instead of squabbling over who's going to pay for the same broken mess. Delaying solutions is far better than cramming through more problems.


I also definitely don't want to have to "pass it to see what's in it".
     
Laminar
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Mar 28, 2017, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
No. Unlike the ACA, I would prefer a system that isn't rammed through Congress via backroom deals. I would prefer that we actually address the issues with the market, instead of squabbling over who's going to pay for the same broken mess. Delaying solutions is far better than cramming through more problems.


I also definitely don't want to have to "pass it to see what's in it".
He asked if you were upset that this is the best they could do after 7 years of protesting Obamacare. I don't think you addressed that question.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 28, 2017, 05:37 PM
 
House members don't seem to want to let this go. Can't decide if it speaks well of them.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 28, 2017, 05:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The thread did ultimately go in that direction.
Can I get a spoiler as to the conclusion?
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 4, 2017, 09:25 AM
 
Sounds like they're trying again only this time instead of ****ing with the poor they're screwing those with preexisting conditions. Good luck.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Apr 4, 2017, 11:37 AM
 
I might be grossly oversimplifying but as far as I understand it, Trump intends to repeal, then replace the ACA via several bills? I have the number three in my head from somewhere.

The first one that he pulled rather than be a loser was the repeal, and without the subsequent replace bills which aren't ready yet, it just ****ed all the poor people, hence it being a loser.
So either people didn't understand that there are more parts to come, or they simply don't trust Trump and co to deliver in those subsequent bills. (I find this an encouraging thought)

Why is he in such a rush? Why not finish all the legislation before running any of it through? Does he think if he fulfils enough campaign promises in 6 months that he can take the next three and a half years off to play more golf and maybe go back on a TV show?
Or maybe the plan really was to screw everybody with the first bill and never get around to the rest.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 4, 2017, 12:34 PM
 
I think he's honestly flabbergasted that he did not get his way right off the bat. Like someone took his silver rattle away.

I have heard mention of "phase 2 and phase 3" which is probably just a way to break up people's expectations.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 4, 2017, 12:52 PM
 
I think the simplest explanation is hard liners desperately want to repeal the ACA and Trump wants wins to tout
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 5, 2017, 12:16 PM
 
It's dead again.
     
 
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