[tavilach]

I was under the impression that the PC equivalent to a 1.5 GHz 15" PowerBook (128 MB video, 512 MB 1 SO-DIMM, 5400 RPM 80 GB, Combo Drive) would cost about $500 less. The PowerBook that I want is approximately $2400 (without including AppleCare and insurance), and my friend is getting an equivalent PC at about $1000! Check it out here.

This makes me wonder...as much as I desperately want my first Mac, is getting a PowerBook really worth it?

Granted, the PC is thicker, and it's not running OS X...but this is a huge price difference.

I also must admit that I'm a little worried about toting a laptop that's twice as expensive as everyone else's laptop around campus...I don't want to be wrongly labeled "the rich kid" or anything. Do you think there are many students on college campuses with laptops just as expensive as the PowerBook?

Meh. I'm so confused .

[MrForgetable]

Cons- 1024x768 on a 15 inch laptop screen
No DVD burner
It is a Toshiba
Weighs almost 8 pounds
A Celeron Processor! PUHLEEEEZE
Pro- your wallet will love you

but you won't love the computer

[tavilach]

Originally posted by MrForgetable:
Cons- 1024x768 on a 15 inch laptop screen
No DVD burner
It is a Toshiba
Weighs almost 8 pounds
A Celeron Processor! PUHLEEEEZE
Pro- your wallet will love you

but you won't love the computer

Oh, wow. 1024x768 on a 15"?



...but still, $1000 . Mine won't have a DVD burner, either.

Edit: My friend has the laptop at 1280x800 resolution...

Edit: Apparently he actually has this model .

[Abit667]

What your friend is getting isn't even close to a 15". What is close are like the Dell 9100 and XPS series. Those are pretty much fullout desktops, in a smaller case. Granted they do weigh 10 pounds and are like 2 inches thick, you get like full desktop performance. Other companies make similar speced computers in smaller form factors, but you'll pay 3k+ for that. A Dell 9100 can be had for 1500 or 1900 for a pretty muched maxed out one.

The 15" powerbook isn't that bad of a deal when you think about it, plus it's still very thin and portable. The only thing I don't like is how low res the screen is. 1280x864 or something is pathetic. In the same 15" screen you can get 1920x1200 resolution on the Dell..I dunno about some people but I really like the higher resolution.

[PowerTower Fan]

That Toshiba laptop has a smaller hard drive, EXTREMELY weak video card, no wireless preinstalled, no gigabit ethernet, and is a lot slower. Its also gonna have a lot of fans in the laptop making it very loud since its using a P4 and not a Pentium M. Its a lowend 15" PC laptop, not a highend.

If your not sure what to get, get in contact with your college bookstore and they'll advise what the campus uses. Every campus is going to be different in the ratio of PC to Mac users, and your college bookstore will be able to advise exactly what students use at your university.

[tavilach]

I'm probably going to order my 15" tonight...

...the price is just scary, is all .

Originally posted by Abit667:
What your friend is getting isn't even close to a 15". What is close are like the Dell 9100 and XPS series. Those are pretty much fullout desktops, in a smaller case. Granted they do weigh 10 pounds and are like 2 inches thick, you get like full desktop performance. Other companies make similar speced computers in smaller form factors, but you'll pay 3k+ for that. A Dell 9100 can be had for 1500 or 1900 for a pretty muched maxed out one.

The 15" powerbook isn't that bad of a deal when you think about it, plus it's still very thin and portable. The only thing I don't like is how low res the screen is. 1280x864 or something is pathetic. In the same 15" screen you can get 1920x1200 resolution on the Dell..I dunno about some people but I really like the higher resolution.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

XPS is just ridiculous .

1280x864 isn't pathetic, my friend. On my 18.1" monitor I'm at 1280x1024...any smaller and I wouldn't be able to read a thing! How could you read anything at 1920x1200 on a 15" monitor?

[wuzup101]

The dell 1920x monitor is very very nice. I just was looking at one no more than 2 hrs ago... very nice... I do wish the PB would have a higher resolution

[Mac Zealot]

Ya know, if you're going into college I'd look into buying from the college store since you can get a good deal.... that or apple EDU

[tavilach]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
Ya know, if you're going into college I'd look into buying from the college store since you can get a good deal.... that or apple EDU

I'm doing that . And it's still $2400-$2600!

[siflippant]

FFS...

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by siflippant:
FFS...

What does FFS stand for?

[ryju]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
What does FFS stand for?

For fcuk's sake IIRC

What is wrong with the Toshiba brand? I think they are quite good having owned several.

[driven]

My current Dell has a 1600X1280 15" monitor.

I'm going friggin' blind!

If I resize the fonts not all applications work properly (buttons overlap other things, etc.) and IE ignores the font scale. (If you turn on "blind person" mode in IE then it doesn't format the pages correctly.) You can use Mozilla which is FAR better unless you have some apps that require IE (ActiveX, etc.)

Overall I'd rather have a decent 1200xsomething monitor.

(Just my 2 cents)
My solution for my Dell was to hook up a CRT to it at all times that I'm not mobile.

[Voch]

Originally posted by driven:
My current Dell has a 1600X1280 15" monitor.

My friend has one of these for work and while he loves it for some reason it makes me appreciate by 1280x854 TiBook's display more. I know Mac OS X's desktop is not scalable but that's not a big deal with such a nice display...

Voch

[Luca Rescigno]

Macs rock. PCs suck.

Having a Radeon 9700 Mobility w/ 128 MB of VRAM rocks. The first PC has "Intel Extreme" graphics, while the second has a Radeon 9000, but it still uses shared video memory.

Therefore, the PC sucks balls, while the Mac owns.

Buy a god damn PowerBook right now and don't think twice about it, tavilach. Don't agonize over the purchase. Your computer will kick lots of ass and you'll love it.

[Fabiano007]

Originally posted by tavilach:
I also must admit that I'm a little worried about toting a laptop that's twice as expensive as everyone else's laptop around campus...I don't want to be wrongly labeled "the rich kid" or anything. Do you think there are many students on college campuses with laptops just as expensive as the PowerBook?

Meh. I'm so confused .

MacUsers usually get "the rich guy" label, eventhough many starve to keep their laptops. I prefer "the smart guy" or "the geek guy" labels...

[SplijinX]

Originally posted by driven:
My current Dell has a 1600X1280 15" monitor.

I'm going friggin' blind!

If I resize the fonts not all applications work properly (buttons overlap other things, etc.) and IE ignores the font scale. (If you turn on "blind person" mode in IE then it doesn't format the pages correctly.) You can use Mozilla which is FAR better unless you have some apps that require IE (ActiveX, etc.)

Overall I'd rather have a decent 1200xsomething monitor.

(Just my 2 cents)
My solution for my Dell was to hook up a CRT to it at all times that I'm not mobile.

The UXGA resolution (1600x1280) is a screen option that usually costs more. Unless you got it second hand or through work, you could have just as easily selected 1280x1024 or even as low as 1024x768.

It's all personal preference really, why else would people choose a 14" ibook over a 12"? They display the same resolution (last I checked anyways).

If you are going to run windows software, buy a PC, if you are going to run Mac OS X and its software buy a Mac, its really that simple.

[mr_mbuna]

I think I've spec'ed out some very similar laptops (maybe even superior PC laptops). The Apple is probably about $500 more than the PC.

For example:

ABS zForce F2 (based on AOpen 1557GL)



15.0-inch SXGA+ 1400x1050 screen
Intel Pentium-M 745 1.8GHz
Intel PRO/2200BG Centrino Wireless - 802.11b/g & Bluetooth
ATI Mobile Radeon 9700 - 128MB
DVD-R/CD-RW Combo Drive
512MB DDR SDRAM (1x512)
60GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
Windows XP Professional SP1
Plantronics Stereo Headphones
1-year Toll Free Tech Support & Warranty
65Wh 8-cell Lithium-Ion 4.5 Hour Battery
Full Set of I/O Ports
12.7 x 10.6 x 1.2
6.0 Pounds

Dare I say that the above laptop is superior in every way except weight to the PowerBook?

$2,091.

[MrForgetable]

Originally posted by mr_mbuna:
I think I've spec'ed out some very similar laptops (maybe even superior PC laptops). The Apple is probably about $500 more than the PC.

For example:

ABS zForce F2 (based on AOpen 1557GL)



15.0-inch SXGA+ 1400x1050 screen
Intel Pentium-M 745 1.8GHz
Intel PRO/2200BG Centrino Wireless - 802.11b/g & Bluetooth
ATI Mobile Radeon 9700 - 128MB
DVD-R/CD-RW Combo Drive
512MB DDR SDRAM (1x512)
60GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
Windows XP Professional SP1
Plantronics Stereo Headphones
1-year Toll Free Tech Support & Warranty
65Wh 8-cell Lithium-Ion 4.5 Hour Battery
Full Set of I/O Ports
12.7 x 10.6 x 1.2
6.0 Pounds

Dare I say that the above laptop is superior in every way except weight to the PowerBook?

$2,001.

Pretty nice, except it runs Windows XP.

[mr_mbuna]

Don't take me as a Mac or Windows fanboy - I used to use Macs, now I use Windows, and I'm trying to persuade myself to buy a PowerBook.

But please Do Not degrade this comparison with intangibles! "Macs are better because they are Macs." The only way we can have a real conversation here is if we compare tech specs, people! Win XP Pro is not the antichrist! All Windows before it may have been, but Win XP Pro is like Mac OS X Lite. We all know Microsoft just copies everything Mac does... so, hell, if I can buy a superior PC laptop for $500-$1000 less than a PowerBook and get 90% of the operating system... its gonna be a tough choice!

[Maflynn]

Originally posted by mr_mbuna:

But please Do Not degrade this comparison with intangibles! "Macs are better because they are Macs." The only way we can have a real conversation here is if we compare tech specs, people!

There are intangibles and comparing specs only do an injustice to the debate.

For me the look and feel, i.e., design of the macs go a long way.
The intergration of the OS with the hardware. Apple really has an advangtage here and with OSX there is a seemless consistant design.
Viruses with Windows is another issue. My company recently turned off zip attacments because of viruses, so I cannot receive .exe, mdb, zip, asp, vbs, etc.
Security - Every week MS is readying a new batch of patches to close yet another security issue. I know OSX has some and hackers have yet to find/take advantage of them but being unix its tougher.

Finally spyware and adware is non-existant with the macs. To my knowledge you cannot install an application without getting prompted. Not so with Windows and/or IE. so its more difficult to get infected and easier to clean up.

So these intangbiles have a direct impact on my quality of life - computing life that is where as if you compared specs only you'd miss that.

Bottom line however is its your money and you need to purchase the tool that you believe best fits your need and that could be an ibm thinkpad.

Peace
Mike

[driven]

Originally posted by SplijinX:
The UXGA resolution (1600x1280) is a screen option that usually costs more. Unless you got it second hand or through work, you could have just as easily selected 1280x1024 or even as low as 1024x768.

I could have ... but I had the perception that more expensive was better and since Dell was mail order only I couldn't tell until I got it. After I got it I figured "Ok, my eyes will adjust" and "software will improve to deal with scalable fonts". Also: The lower resolution displays were not nearly as bright or had as wide of a viewing angle (so I was told).

Now: Two years later ... my eyes are hating me. But the rest of the laptop is terrific ...

[SplijinX]

Originally posted by Maflynn:
There are intangibles and comparing specs only do an injustice to the debate.

For me the look and feel, i.e., design of the macs go a long way.
The intergration of the OS with the hardware. Apple really has an advangtage here and with OSX there is a seemless consistant design.
Viruses with Windows is another issue. My company recently turned off zip attacments because of viruses, so I cannot receive .exe, mdb, zip, asp, vbs, etc.
Security - Every week MS is readying a new batch of patches to close yet another security issue. I know OSX has some and hackers have yet to find/take advantage of them but being unix its tougher.

Finally spyware and adware is non-existant with the macs. To my knowledge you cannot install an application without getting prompted. Not so with Windows and/or IE. so its more difficult to get infected and easier to clean up.

So these intangbiles have a direct impact on my quality of life - computing life that is where as if you compared specs only you'd miss that.

Bottom line however is its your money and you need to purchase the tool that you believe best fits your need and that could be an ibm thinkpad.

Peace
Mike

While I agree life is much more peaceful using a Mac, I we have the potential to be just as vulnerable. It's just that ~90% of the world use Windows and I suppose hackers and script kiddies want the biggest bang for their buck trying to claw their way in Windows. If they were all to turn around and focus all their efforts on Apple I'm sure they could find quite a few flaws yet to be discovered.

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,63805,00.html
http://www.wired.com/news/rants/0,2350,63860,00.html

Yes Macs are safer, just don't have a false sense of security. It's always good practice not to open strange emails and to update virus definitions regularly.

[aaron6166]

Originally posted by tavilach:
Oh, wow. 1024x768 on a 15"?



...but still, $1000 . Mine won't have a DVD burner, either.

Edit: My friend has the laptop at 1280x800 resolution...

Edit: Apparently he actually has this model .

I clicked on the link and it says pentium4 2.8ghz, not a celeron??? anyways.. moot point.

the powerbook costs more b/c of the streamlined design, the size, and the lack of same-os competition.

[ryju]

Originally posted by mr_mbuna:

15.0-inch SXGA+ 1400x1050 screen
Intel Pentium-M 745 1.8GHz
Intel PRO/2200BG Centrino Wireless - 802.11b/g & Bluetooth
ATI Mobile Radeon 9700 - 128MB
DVD-R/CD-RW Combo Drive
512MB DDR SDRAM (1x512)
60GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
Windows XP Professional SP1
Plantronics Stereo Headphones
1-year Toll Free Tech Support & Warranty
65Wh 8-cell Lithium-Ion 4.5 Hour Battery
Full Set of I/O Ports
12.7 x 10.6 x 1.2
6.0 Pounds

Dare I say that the above laptop is superior in every way except weight to the PowerBook?

$2,091.

The Powerbook has an 80GB HDD, Mac OS X, and is thinner, otherwise yes.

[SplijinX]

If anyone is looking for a cheap 12" PC laptop saw a pretty good deal here: http://slickdeals.net/#p5011

Approx $1200, not a bad deal at all. Obviously it won't look as nice as a PB and doesn't run OS X, but if you looking for a cheap small PC laptop, this might fit the bill.

Some Specs:
Intel Pentium-M 1.6GHz Processor
1GB 266MHz DDR SDRAM
40GB 5400RPM Hard Drive
External USB DVD/CDRW drive
Integrated 802.11A/B/G Wireless
56K Modem
Gigabit NIC
12.1" color TFT XGA display with 1024 x 768 XGA resolution (16 M color)
Microsoft Windows XP Home
Weight (lbs) 3.5lbs
3-Year Warranty

[Marid]

Originally posted by mr_mbuna:
I think I've spec'ed out some very similar laptops (maybe even superior PC laptops). The Apple is probably about $500 more than the PC.

For example:

ABS zForce F2 (based on AOpen 1557GL)



15.0-inch SXGA+ 1400x1050 screen
Intel Pentium-M 745 1.8GHz
Intel PRO/2200BG Centrino Wireless - 802.11b/g & Bluetooth
ATI Mobile Radeon 9700 - 128MB
DVD-R/CD-RW Combo Drive
512MB DDR SDRAM (1x512)
60GB HDD @ 7200 RPM
Windows XP Professional SP1
Plantronics Stereo Headphones
1-year Toll Free Tech Support & Warranty
65Wh 8-cell Lithium-Ion 4.5 Hour Battery
Full Set of I/O Ports
12.7 x 10.6 x 1.2
6.0 Pounds

Dare I say that the above laptop is superior in every way except weight to the PowerBook?

$2,091.

Actually, I would say it is pretty much equivalent save the OS and generic lookiing case.

[tavilach]

Originally posted by SplijinX:
If anyone is looking for a cheap 12" PC laptop saw a pretty good deal here: http://slickdeals.net/#p5011

Approx $1200, not a bad deal at all. Obviously it won't look as nice as a PB and doesn't run OS X, but if you looking for a cheap small PC laptop, this might fit the bill.

Some Specs:
Intel Pentium-M 1.6GHz Processor
1GB 266MHz DDR SDRAM
40GB 5400RPM Hard Drive
External USB DVD/CDRW drive
Integrated 802.11A/B/G Wireless
56K Modem
Gigabit NIC
12.1" color TFT XGA display with 1024 x 768 XGA resolution (16 M color)
Microsoft Windows XP Home
Weight (lbs) 3.5lbs
3-Year Warranty

It sounds very much like the 12" iBook .

[sniffer]

Comparing Macs with x86 is pretty close to impossible. Yes you have the specs, but it wasn't the underpowered iMac G3 that convinced me to switch in the first place back in the days. Mac and PC users perspectives vary for sure.

[rambo47]

For me, owning PowerBooks is all about two things. A highly stylized design that appeals to me, and Mac OS X.

[driven]

That HP / eCost machine uses shared video RAM. Effective for Word Processing, but not much else.

[Gig103]

We all know Microsoft just copies everything Mac does...

Who stole the GUI from Xerox. Jeez, I was all on your side about a fair comparison until you threw this line in, which made you sound ignorant. Apple is not an angel, and IIRC Windows95 had the startmenu before MacOS X had the dock, and no the application bar wasn't the same since it didn't show active applications on it.

I'm loving my powerbook and Apple's ingenuity, but I have no problems with Microsoft.

[Ann]

I also must admit that I'm a little worried about toting a laptop that's twice as expensive as everyone else's laptop around campus...I don't want to be wrongly labeled "the rich kid" or anything. Do you think there are many students on college campuses with laptops just as expensive as the PowerBook?

I'm a SWE major at a big university. A lot of the kids in my classes bring their laptops to class since most of our buildings have wireless internet. Surprisingly about half of the laptops are Macs (ibooks/powerbooks). I myself have a 12" PB. I wouldn't worry about being labeled "the rich kid". Live it up and go for the powerbook.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Gig103:
Who stole the GUI from Xerox. Jeez, I was all on your side about a fair comparison until you threw this line in, which made you sound ignorant.

except they didn't. Apple licensed the PARC tech from Xerox.

[driven]

The university that I teach at has a ton of 15" & 17" powerbooks running around ... the Visual Design majors all have to buy PowerBooks ..

All of my students have Dell machines (recent) and Thinkpads. (I teach Windows software application development ... so that makes sense.)

[SplijinX]

Originally posted by EdipisReks:
except they didn't. Apple licensed the PARC tech from Xerox.

I think both are partially correct. It's not as if Apple had broken into Xerox and stole ideas on making a GUI, they were in fact invited for demonstrations. However when they took off and ran with the idea, they did end up hiring a good number of guys from Xerox PARC. Don't think Xerox was too happy about that.

It's kind of a gray area, depending on where you cite your sources it can swing one way or the other.

http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/oshistory/3.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI
http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html

I think it's fair to say Apple made contributions on top of what they learned from PARC to create one of the first sucessful GUI. But likewise, M$ must have done something right when they released Win95 and even the common folks were starting to use computers.

There may have been other economical factors that may have played a role that I may be over looking, but I don't think you can take 90% of the market with just a knock off.

[Gig103]

Originally posted by SplijinX:
There may have been other economical factors that may have played a role that I may be over looking, but I don't think you can take 90% of the market with just a knock off.

There were - the fact that the hardware that Microsoft ran on was freely accessible and customizable gave them an early advantage. Buying MacOS required Apple hardware, but Microsoft Windows ran with different sound cards, video cards, motherboards, etc..