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iWork/Pages users
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omar96
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Mar 29, 2005, 11:56 PM
 
Is this software any good? I have been using Apple Works because that's what my Mac came with and I honestly hate it. I'm a Word user from Windows and AppleWorks shows its age. I don't really want to plop down the several hundred to get Office 2004, and the $80 iWork looks intriguing. All I'd use it for is word processing, so I'm most interested in Pages. If you use it, how user-friendly is it and the like? TIA.
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CaptainHaddock
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Mar 30, 2005, 02:58 AM
 
Pages isn't the world's snappiest program (since it's a version-one program I suppose), but it's very useful. It's easy to use, equally good for both word processing and simple layout design, comes with nice templates, and opens Word documents just fine (including documents with tables).
     
TETENAL
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Mar 30, 2005, 08:30 AM
 
I like Pages a lot. It's a definite improvement over AppleWorks and well worth the money imho.
     
Millennium
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Mar 30, 2005, 09:49 AM
 
If the only thing you need is a word processor, then Pages should work well.

It's a shame; back in the 4.x and 5.x days, AppleWorks (called ClarisWorks until sometime during 5.x, when Apple reabsorbed Claris) was one of the best programs on the Mac. Even 6.x wasn't bad at all on OS9, though it was a bit of a step back in a few areas. The halfhearted attempt at porting it to OSX, however, was so awful that it has unfairly tarnished Carbon's reputation to this day. It is, in fact, the original Bad Carbon Port, the app for which that term was coined.
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omar96  (op)
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Mar 30, 2005, 10:26 AM
 
Thanks for the votes of confidence, guys. I'll pick up a copy of iWork. I was afraid I was going to get innundated with "AppleWorks is TEH BOMZ!" because I knew that 5.x rocked on legacy Mac OS's, and it's not TERRIBLE on OS9. I just know there's better available.
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Mar 30, 2005, 11:05 AM
 
I haven't really used Pages, but Keynote is amazing. Every presentation I've done with it blew everyone away. It really doesn't get much better than Keynote in terms of visual impact.
     
Moose
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Mar 30, 2005, 11:24 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
The halfhearted attempt at porting it to OSX, however, was so awful that it has unfairly tarnished Carbon's reputation to this day. It is, in fact, the original Bad Carbon Port, the app for which that term was coined.
I thought it was the one-two punch of IE and Finder that started all the hate.
     
Will V.
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Mar 30, 2005, 11:55 AM
 
I would try it, if it had a spreadsheet application as well.

Perhaps Apple should devote some serious resources to the OS X version of Open Office? Just a thought.
     
Millennium
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Mar 30, 2005, 01:23 PM
 
Originally posted by Moose:
I thought it was the one-two punch of IE and Finder that started all the hate.
You're right that it was a one-two punch, but IE didn't actually get all that many complaints, probably because people who didn't like it just went with OmniWeb. AppleWorks and the Finder were the big two, because for several months they were the only OSX-native apps in their areas, and nobody wanted to use Classic for a word processor.
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bbales
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Mar 30, 2005, 03:19 PM
 
Originally posted by omar96:
Is this software any good? I have been using Apple Works because that's what my Mac came with and I honestly hate it. I'm a Word user from Windows and AppleWorks shows its age. I don't really want to plop down the several hundred to get Office 2004, and the $80 iWork looks intriguing. All I'd use it for is word processing, so I'm most interested in Pages. If you use it, how user-friendly is it and the like? TIA.

Just an FYI -- You can pick up Office 2004 academic version for much, much less than the "regular" version.

That said, I don't use Word all that much. I'm still kind of stuck on AppleWorks, though I'm far from unimpressed. I actually have Pages, but haven't used it much yet. In terms of word processing, I'm still undecided. I can't recall from my initial view, but it seems to me that the Word Count feature was either missing or hard to find, and that is essential for me in my writing work. And though this is really picky, it just irritates the heck out of me that, after all these years, Apple didn't make the command for spell check the same as it's always been. That just seems stupid to me.
     
TETENAL
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Mar 30, 2005, 03:27 PM
 
Originally posted by bbales:
I can't recall from my initial view, but it seems to me that the Word Count feature was either missing or hard to find, and that is essential for me in my writing work.
Information palette->Document->Information. Where would it be easier to find?
IAnd though this is really picky, it just irritates the heck out of me that, after all these years, Apple didn't make the command for spell check the same as it's always been.
Seems to be the same command in any program for me.
     
brettcamp
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:27 AM
 
It's true that you can get MS Office student and educator edition for $149, but before laying out that kinda money, or even the $80 for iWork, I suggest you give NeoOffice (free!) and Mellel ($29) a try. I have Word, and AppleWorks, but I mostly use TextEdit or DevonNote for my writing; between the two of them, they give me just about everything I need, including live word count and outlining. But if I were buying a word processor, I'd go for Mellel, especially for its outline feature (which I believe Pages lacks). There's a full featured demo you can try for a month for free.

I haven't used NeoOffice, but the latest version is getting good user reviews.
     
Geobunny
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:02 AM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
<snip> nobody wanted to use Classic for a word processor.
While I agree that nobody wanted to, this is in fact precisely what I did! I used AW5 for a good number of years in Classic despite having purchased AW6. 6 was slow, butt fugly interface, and most importantly, Macro support disappeared in the Carbon Port. In order to have my Macros back, I was restricted to Classic anyway so figured I may as well stick with AW5.

IIRC, between AW5 and 6 being released, the second and only remaining original founder of ClarisWorks resigned. IMO, that's probably why it went downhill.

Also remember reading somewhere that versions 3 and 6 of software releases tended to be bad for one reason or another. ClarisWorks/AppleWorks definitely fitted in with this thinking.
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bbales
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Mar 31, 2005, 11:01 AM
 
Originally posted by TETENAL:
Information palette->Document->Information. Where would it be easier to find?
Seems to be the same command in any program for me.

The spell check command is definitely different. (I did go back and look, to make sure I was remembering properly!)
Plus, unless I've got a command not set properly, it doesn't even give suggestions. It just points out a misspelling. But again, I might not have a preference set right. I just don't understand why they changed the command at all -- seems kind of pointless. It's similar to when a basic system command to create a new folder was changed between OS9 and OSX.

As for the word count, yes it's there, yes it's findable. I'm not used to that whole palette thing yet. I have also created key commands that automate the whole procedure, so I'm going to have to investigate whether that's even possible with a palette in play instead of menu commands.

I'm not saying it's a worthless program -- in fact, especially for some simple layouts, it's proved useful. But it's definitely not what I was expecting in the word processing range.
     
CaptainHaddock
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:40 PM
 
Keep in mind that another of Pages' strengths is that it's a pure Cocoa application, so all the Cocoa services (like "summarize") are easily accessible. Pages also has nice integration with iPhoto.
     
Eug Wanker
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:15 PM
 
Keynote 2 is great. Pages, well, the jury is still out on it for me.

Pages is very slow at times, and it's not as intuitive as it could be. Maybe I'll read the instructions for a change....

However, most of the time I still use MS Word. Fortunately, I get a very cheap educational price for MS Office 2004, which I need anyway, since a lot of my old presentations are PowerPoint format. (No, PowerPoint -> Keynote imports are not a solution.)

P.S. I hate AppleWorks.
     
TheIceMan
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Apr 21, 2005, 06:29 PM
 
Sorry to repost this. Hey, at least I didn't start a new thread. I do have a few questions which I can't seem to find in the Pages User guide.

(1) How do I create check box? Like the ones in MS Word so that clicking on it will add an "x" inside the box.

(2) How do I set the Pages to "Show Rulers" by default everytime I open a Pages document or create a new one?

(3) Finally, when creating tables, how can I set the justification (not aligning it left, right or center) so that when I tab I'll end up at the exact spot on each line? Sorry if I'm not explaining it well. Here's a pic. See how the bullets on the right side don't line up? I'm going nuts trying to get them to line up inside tables.
     
TETENAL
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Apr 21, 2005, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheIceMan
(1) How do I create check box? Like the ones in MS Word so that clicking on it will add an "x" inside the box.
You can add any special character with the character pallet that is available in the Edit menu. The "Miscellaneous Symbols" range includes checkbox characters.

☐☑☒☓
Originally Posted by TheIceMan
(2) How do I set the Pages to "Show Rulers" by default everytime I open a Pages document or create a new one?
You have to show the rulers and then save that as your own template.
Originally Posted by TheIceMan
(3) Finally, when creating tables, how can I set the justification (not aligning it left, right or center) so that when I tab I'll end up at the exact spot on each line?
I don't understand this question even with the picture you added. I made a table with 1 row and 2 columns in Pages and made bulleted lists in both table cells and the bullets on the right side line up perfectly. How did you create the 2 column layout? What exactly is the question here?
     
kcmac
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Apr 21, 2005, 11:17 PM
 
I really enjoy using Pages. Only use Word when I absolutely have to in the corporate environment. I rarely use TextEdit these days.
     
Superchicken
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Apr 22, 2005, 01:31 AM
 
Pages is great if you realize the power of the template system... I hated the defaults so I've begun making my own It's super powerful in that regard, and great since i like to make my documents be MY WAY.
As well I've even changed a few graphics that are used for the widgets (I love apps that use .tif files for their widgets)
I love Pages... I actually like it more than Word I think... plus Word's also slow... I think Pages will pick up next year with iWork 06. And then you'll already be used to it and be like OOO new features and junk... get iWork you'll be glad you did in a few years esspecially when it matures even more. I mean look at iLife!
     
Geobunny
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Apr 22, 2005, 03:28 AM
 
Can someone PLEASE show me how to do this in Pages. I need 3 or 4 different tab stops, with the left paragraph margin sitting on the 4th tab stop. This is trivial to do in the likes of Word and AppleWorks....and in fact, any word processor I've ever used but for some reason I can not get Pages to do what I want it to. I'm after something like this:



Thanks.
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CaptainHaddock
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Apr 22, 2005, 04:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Geobunny
Can someone PLEASE show me how to do this in Pages. I need 3 or 4 different tab stops, with the left paragraph margin sitting on the 4th tab stop. This is trivial to do in the likes of Word and AppleWorks....and in fact, any word processor I've ever used but for some reason I can not get Pages to do what I want it to. I'm after something like this:



Thanks.
It's exactly the same, mon ami!

     
Miniryu
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Apr 25, 2005, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
You can add any special character with the character pallet that is available in the Edit menu. The "Miscellaneous Symbols" range includes checkbox characters.

☐☑☒☓
You have to show the rulers and then save that as your own template.
I don't understand this question even with the picture you added. I made a table with 1 row and 2 columns in Pages and made bulleted lists in both table cells and the bullets on the right side line up perfectly. How did you create the 2 column layout? What exactly is the question here?
He made the 2 column layout the same way many people make 2 column layouts with Word/other word processors: he used tabs. He placed the cursor on the left end of the screen, then hit tab like 5 times, and repeated for every new line he wanted to do. In word, this will make the 2nd column line up exactly.

You already gave him a great solution to his problem, though. Just create a table.

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TheIceMan
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Apr 25, 2005, 08:24 AM
 
TETENAL
Sorry I couldn't figure out how to include the misc. characters so I posted it again as a screenshot.
( Last edited by TheIceMan; Apr 25, 2005 at 08:39 AM. )
     
AppleOptionFour
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Apr 25, 2005, 04:03 PM
 
Look for the next version of Pages to be significantly better. I would even venture that the incremental updates will be nice.
     
Rev-O
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Apr 25, 2005, 09:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by AppleOptionFour
Look for the next version of Pages to be significantly better. I would even venture that the incremental updates will be nice.
This is exactly what is keeping me from buying iWork. Pages look quite nice, yet from what I've heard, a bit incomplete. I read a review that noted issues with it's exported PDFs not being entirely friendly with Acrobat, which could cause issues taking a generated brochure or whatnot to a printer. I guess I'm holding out to see what the incremental changes fix before purchasing it. It'd bug the crap out of me to dole out $80 for it, then have to spend another $80 for iWork 06 to have a version that has all the kinks worked out.
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TETENAL
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Apr 25, 2005, 09:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheIceMan
TETENAL
Sorry I couldn't figure out how to include the misc. characters so I posted it again as a screenshot.
Bulleted lists line up perfectly in tables for me. Tables don't need to have printing lines. That's how I would add a multi-column bulleted list. Even when making bullets by hand and tabbing, the tabbed to bullets line up perfectly. How do you create multi-column bulleted lists that don't line up?

I'm not aware of interactive controls in Pages (though I must confess I didn't read the printed manual yet). As far as I can tell Pages is mainly designed to created documents for print. On a printed document you don't have an interactive checkbox (with the exception that you can use a pencil to check the checkbox by hand). You can not click a printed page. Pages is not a format you are likely to share electronically since few people own the application.
In short, I don't think you can do this yet.
     
Synotic
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Apr 25, 2005, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Geobunny
Can someone PLEASE show me how to do this in Pages. I need 3 or 4 different tab stops, with the left paragraph margin sitting on the 4th tab stop. This is trivial to do in the likes of Word and AppleWorks....and in fact, any word processor I've ever used but for some reason I can not get Pages to do what I want it to. I'm after something like this:



Thanks.
It's cheating a bit, but if you absolutely need to get that layout, then you can stick in a floating white box with text:



Also note the layout break, immediately after the text box, which allows the rest of the page to flow as you resize the text box.
     
Superchicken
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Apr 26, 2005, 02:40 AM
 
I would have no problem doing that in pages. Pages certainly has areas that it could improve in. But I think you guys are judging it really harshly. I have run into minor issues, so yes it's not perfect. But compared to Word the times I've tried to use it, it was faster, and far more fun.
     
pd170
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Apr 26, 2005, 07:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by brettcamp
It's true that you can get MS Office student and educator edition for $149, but before laying out that kinda money, or even the $80 for iWork, I suggest you give NeoOffice (free!) and Mellel ($29) a try.

I haven't used NeoOffice, but the latest version is getting good user reviews.
-----------------------
I have been using NeoOffice on several occaisions and for normal text messages and for large Excel files I am very happy with the application. However, start of NeoOffice takes a wee bit longer than AW.
NeoOffice offers a larger choice to save the files in different formats than AppleWorks.

For the majority of my letters I'll use AW without any problems.
More information for NeoOffice can be found at neooffice.org

Wld y know if AW still runs on Tiger or if I have to be concerned?
     
TheIceMan
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Apr 26, 2005, 08:41 AM
 
TETENAL I think this is something that I'm messing up or not doing right. Basically, how do I tab inside a table? Every time I try to tab (inside a table) it sends me into the next table. For example, in this shot I'm trying to tab after "Follows instructions" so that I can set the bullet for "Waits patiently". BUT when I do tab, it sends me into the next field which is "Planned Consequences."



So what I'm asking for is how do I tab over and not end up in the next table? Thanks for your help.

It's driving me crazy.
     
TETENAL
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Apr 26, 2005, 09:17 AM
 
IceMan, I understand your problem now.

First, may I suggest you do the following instead of tabbing to create your lists: You want a two column bulleted list within one table cell. Instead of tabbing, you split this table cell in two columns. To do this open the Inspector for tables and click the split columns button. Now you can create one regular bulleted list in the left table cell and the other regular bulleted list in the right table cell. After that you select the line that separates this table cells (yellow outline around this line only), open the inspector for graphics and choose Stroke: none. This line will now no longer print. Voil, two columns of bulleted lists without hassle. And the items can line break properly and all.

With regard to your original question: To tab within a table you Option-Tab. I noticed that for a newly created table, the cells to not contain any tab stops. You need to show the ruler than create the tab stop in the ruler at the desired position and then you can option tab to it. I wouldn't suggest you use that to create multi-column layouts.
     
TheIceMan
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Apr 26, 2005, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
IceMan, I understand your problem now.

...With regard to your original question: To tab within a table you Option-Tab...
THANK YOU. Problem solved. OPTION-TAB. That's crazy! Thanks again. Now my documents look cleaner and more professional because they actually line up right.
     
threestain
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Apr 27, 2005, 04:20 AM
 
Quick question. I was writing something last night and it suddenly struck me. I have no idea how to use a style within a style. As in instead of using the emphasise or changing the font I want to change the style so that all my emphasised bits are the same. Is that possible, or do I have to use italics and change the fonts etc for the small selection I do?
     
TETENAL
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Apr 27, 2005, 08:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by threestain
I have no idea how to use a style within a style.
You need to use a character style, not a paragraph style. Show the styles drawer and click the a button to create and edit character styles.
     
threestain
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Apr 27, 2005, 10:15 AM
 
ah cheers. thanks!
     
   
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