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crzdc0l0mbian · Aug 7, 2006, 05:04 PM

Also sorry for my english I am an exchange student. I think i angered someone in another forum on this site.

I have an imac but want something portable and am looking at the macbook 15' but I was just waiting until this show to know if they would update them to Core 2 duo chips. The 1st day was today but they only spoke about the Mac Pro. Will they have more announcements this week or is today it? This is the 1st time i have followed this show but E3.. the video game expo, companies usually just say everything during there opening speach

mduell · Aug 7, 2006, 05:14 PM

I expect we'll see Core 2 Duo in the MacBook Pro within a month, possibly two at the outside. It's fairly common for Apple to release updates or even new products a few weeks after a keynote presentation because they focused on different things at the keynote.

crzdc0l0mbian · Aug 7, 2006, 05:33 PM

so does that mean that they wont announce anything else after today?

mduell · Aug 7, 2006, 06:47 PM

At WWDC? No.
In a week or three? Sure.

SierraDragon · Aug 7, 2006, 08:30 PM

New MacBook Pros based on the Merom chips are very very likely to be announced no later than September 2006.

surferboy · Aug 8, 2006, 12:15 AM

I was very dissappointed that they were not announced. I suspect they will be announced in the next several weeks- after the back-to-school season is over. This way, Apple will clear their inventory a little more thoroughly before releasing the new machines. I've been holding out- bummer.

masugu · Aug 8, 2006, 12:50 AM

iPods will rollout as well in Oct. MacBooks...not for a while. Agree....undewhelming WWDC in terms of product intros. Boo....

crzdc0l0mbian · Aug 8, 2006, 01:33 AM

that sucks they had a 2 ghz, 1 gb mbp yesterday and the bid ended at 1300... I could have had it but i waited... yesterday alot of people sold there MBPs expecting an announcement today.

Tuoder · Aug 8, 2006, 03:47 AM

In the PPC days (okayokay, they ended yesterday) Apple would wait a bit to release an update. It makes sense to me that they would do it soon to take advantage of the education buying season, nut then, I could also see them using this season to clear out all of the ones that are not Core 2 Duo.

I suppose that is the nature of speculation.

EDIT:500th Post, YAY!

Simon · Aug 8, 2006, 03:52 PM

This is what I'm currently expecting:

MBP rev B with Merom (and possibly redesigned internal layout?): Sep 06

Mm rev B with Merom: Jan 07 (could also be earlier, in time for the Xmas buying season)

iM rev B with Conroe (or Merom?): Jan 07 (could also be earlier, in time for the Xmas buying season)

MB rev B with Merom: Jan 07

Desktop headless & expandable Mac with Conroe for $1499: Probably never (at least as long as Steve is in charge)

Podolsky · Aug 8, 2006, 04:33 PM

Someone could check this but I don't think there have been to many big laptop announcements at WWDC. The reason is that developers are a huge consumers of desktop Macs. Sure, everyone has a laptop but for any serious projects the need for speed is valued very highly. But I agree with everything said here. In fact, I am looking for a MacBook Pro this fall my own self.

Eriamjh · Aug 9, 2006, 08:14 AM

Apple has done announcements after a big show before. I think there was one time where they announced a new product each week for three weeks and one was right after a major show.

Apple prefers to announce products when they are shipping, not in advance. When the rest of the internet reports Meroms shipping, Apple will likely have a mini-event to get announce it is in MacBook Pros and iMacs (I hope). Be patient.

WWDC is a developers conference. It was appropriate to announce the Mac Pros because developers like to use the best machines for development. But Merom laptops and bigger iPods, two much expected updates, are not appropriate for this show.

They are coming and they are coming soon. If nothing is announced in the next 4 weeks, well... I guess you can decide what to do.

Hobeaux · Aug 9, 2006, 12:22 PM

Intel's new Core 2 Duo chips appear to be in short supply and all the PC manufacturers seem to be constrained in their ability to ship their product. Read on some site somewhere that the cooling on the chips appears to be flawed in the initial run of the chips.

Once Apple gets a large enough supply of chips they'll make their announcement.

Since there tends to be one announcement per quarter or so (MacBook Pro and MacBook in spring, Mac Pro and Xserve in Summer), I'd say that Apple isn't due for another announcement till September/October -- Just in time for the holiday shopping season.

That said: if you need a machine now, get it now and don't regret it. If you can wait: then wait till the November timeframe...

mduell · Aug 9, 2006, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Hobeaux

Intel's new Core 2 Duo chips appear to be in short supply and all the PC manufacturers seem to be constrained in their ability to ship their product. Read on some site somewhere that the cooling on the chips appears to be flawed in the initial run of the chips.

Links please.

n8236 · Aug 10, 2006, 02:18 AM

I believe it'll be there w/in a month. No announcement because the speed increase (5-15%) isn't justified enough like the jump for the current mbp line w/ their whole "4x faster..." etc ad slogan.

buddy1065 · Aug 10, 2006, 08:31 AM

It's not going to kill me to keep my flawless Powerbook 17" 1.5 Ghz until September. It does what I bought it for. Where's the fire? I don't smell anything...

Tuoder · Aug 11, 2006, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by buddy1065

It's not going to kill me to keep my flawless Powerbook 17" 1.5 Ghz until September. It does what I bought it for. Where's the fire? I don't smell anything...

Ahhh, the beauty of a final-revision Powerbook...

I'll still take a MacBook.

crzdc0l0mbian · Aug 11, 2006, 11:52 AM

in MA this weekend, you dont have to pay taxes so my macbook pro will be 150 bucks cheaper. So no more waiting for me, I give up. They can upgrade it a week later like they did when I purchased an Ipod. I just dont care anymore... I cant keep using this emachine computer i am on

shecky · Aug 11, 2006, 12:43 PM

correct me if i am mistaken, but the core 2 duo will make the new macbook pros apple's first 64-bit laptops. i think this will make the new macbook pros more than a silent upgrade, i think we will get them via a keynote from paris expo in the middle of september to some hooplah from the steve.

buddy1065 · Aug 11, 2006, 12:51 PM

I could understand if it was 3 months from now, but September is only 3 weeks away.

djkny · 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by buddy1065

I could understand if it was 3 months from now, but September is only 3 weeks away.

Sure, but if it's announced there (and that's a big "if"), the MBP's will probably ship in mass quantity 2-4 weeks after that; that's a total of 6-7 weeks, which, in my mind, is a long time to wait, waste, etc.

life's too short to OCD over a merom chip.

crzdc0l0mbian · Aug 11, 2006, 03:01 PM

wait r the core duos not 64 bit?

shecky · Aug 11, 2006, 03:23 PM

officially, core duo does not support 64-bit.

unofficially, the chips may be 64-bit chips that are limited by Intel to 32-bit. either way, the current core duo chips are not 64-bit. Core 2 Duo chips are 64-bit.

pat++ · Aug 11, 2006, 04:11 PM

Looks like it's going to be September:

http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20060811PB201.html

mduell · Aug 11, 2006, 06:16 PM

64-bit does so little for you in a laptop... current memory densities limit you to 4GB anyway, and since 64-bit values use up twice as much space and bandwidth, performance is often lower.

outthere · Aug 11, 2006, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

64-bit does so little for you in a laptop... current memory densities limit you to 4GB anyway, and since 64-bit values use up twice as much space and bandwidth, performance is often lower.

so you're saying that we're better off not go for the upcoming MBP?

outhere

surferboy · Aug 11, 2006, 06:50 PM

I'd like to know the same thing....?

mduell · Aug 11, 2006, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by outthere

so you're saying that we're better off not go for the upcoming MBP?

No, I think you're much better off waiting for the Merom refresh. 64-bit support is not one of the reasons.

dsidote · 05:34 AM

OK...so the core 2 duo is about 12% on average faster than the core duo (according to anandtech.com) and they use about the same amount of power. It seems that the processor upgrade will be just that, no improvments to the motherboard so no additional RAM capability or increased bus speed. At least until the santa rosa chipset comes out sometime next year. So whats left? Operating temperature I guess.

Also, if apple was to implement some change to the motherboard, either to enhance or to make the new chip work, then we would essentailly be starting with new hardware and that would mean being an early adopter of a new product. I was waiting a while for apple to fix the bugs in th MBP. I don't want to have a to wait a few more months while they work the bugs out of a completely new machine.

So I could wait to get a machine that is ~12% faster and perhaps runs a bit cooler. Of course, that means waiting 1 month for them to announce it, 1 month for them to ship it, and at least a month to let others find out what apple needs to address before I purchase one.

The only other factor is the 64 bit. Is this really important for portable computing? The operating system won't be 64 bit compatable for another 6 months and there are very few applications that can take advantage of 64 bit processing at this time (or probably in 6 months for that matter). The memory limitation of notebook computers also seems to be a very valid point. If the computer can only handle 2GB of ram there doesn't even seem to ba need for debate on this.

I think I talked myself into it. I am going to get a MBP tomorrow.

mduell · Aug 11, 2006, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by dsidote

OK...so the core 2 duo is about 12% on average faster than the core duo (according to anandtech.com) and they use about the same amount of power. It seems that the processor upgrade will be just that, no improvments to the motherboard so no additional RAM capability or increased bus speed. At least until the santa rosa chipset comes out sometime next year. So whats left? Operating temperature I guess.

That's 12% faster at the same clockrate. Merom also clocks higher, so there is more performance to be had there.

But it also depends on your apps. Are you using the apps that are 1% faster or 25% faster?

brokenjago · Aug 12, 2006, 03:15 AM

I imagine that the MBP refresh will add a couple of things that just make sense to add.

Examples include a DL burner for the 15" (they have one in the 17" at basically the same form factor... it can't be that hard to fit it in a 15".)

A magnetic latch (seriously, if the MBP doesn't get one I will be sorely disappointed. I'v gotten so used to the MB and just being able to open it

)

I also really hope they do some internal component reshuffling and get the ridiculously easily upgradeable HD and RAM that the MacBook has.

Let's see some of that innovation spill over to the MBP!

Simon · Aug 12, 2006, 06:35 AM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

A magnetic latch
...
I also really hope they do some internal component reshuffling and get the ridiculously easily upgradeable HD and RAM that the MacBook has.

Seconded. And I'd like to see them finally put the lock port at a location that actually makes sense. The way it's located now, it's a major PITA. As if they just wanted to be able to put it on a spec sheet but not really expect anybody to use it.

mduell · Aug 12, 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

I imagine that the MBP refresh will add a couple of things that just make sense to add.

Examples include a DL burner for the 15" (they have one in the 17" at basically the same form factor... it can't be that hard to fit it in a 15".)

Unlikely without a massive redesign. The trackpad on the 15" overlaps the optical drive bay, so they have to use thinner optical drives in the 15" than in the 17".

SierraDragon · Aug 12, 2006, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by dsidote

OK...so the core 2 duo is about 12% on average faster... The only other factor is the 64 bit. Is this really important... I think I talked myself into it. I am going to get a MBP tomorrow.

The real point is that except for the chip design we do not know what the Merom MBPs will bring. We do expect improved performance but other changes could occur in the areas of pricing, addressable RAM, displays, hard drives, FW 800 in 15" and more. IMO if one has a functional workflow now it makes sense to wait a month to see the changes.

Podolsky · Aug 12, 2006, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by dsidote

Also, if apple was to implement some change to the motherboard, either to enhance or to make the new chip work, then we would essentailly be starting with new hardware and that would mean being an early adopter of a new product. I was waiting a while for apple to fix the bugs in th MBP. I don't want to have a to wait a few more months while they work the bugs out of a completely new machine.

While I have not seen this distinction discussed - I always thought revision applied to the case and not to the motherboard and internal layout per se. If you look at the 17' PowerBook they have left the case essentially unchanged but the motherboard and layout of components has changed a lot over the revisions. So, my guess is that as long as Apple leaves the MBP case alone everyone will refer each next model as a revision regardless of what they do to it internally.

Elektrix · Aug 13, 2006, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Podolsky

While I have not seen this distinction discussed - I always thought revision applied to the case and not to the motherboard and internal layout per se. If you look at the 17' PowerBook they have left the case essentially unchanged but the motherboard and layout of components has changed a lot over the revisions. So, my guess is that as long as Apple leaves the MBP case alone everyone will refer each next model as a revision regardless of what they do to it internally.

Not really..... there have been many Mac models that shared the same case design, etc. and had upgrades to the motherboard, processors, etc. and were referred to as Rev. A, Rev. B, Rev. C, etc. It usually hasn't had anything to do with case redesigns, or at least that hasn't been the major factor.

Simon · Aug 13, 2006, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by Podolsky

While I have not seen this distinction discussed - I always thought revision applied to the case and not to the motherboard and internal layout per se. If you look at the 17' PowerBook they have left the case essentially unchanged but the motherboard and layout of components has changed a lot over the revisions. So, my guess is that as long as Apple leaves the MBP case alone everyone will refer each next model as a revision regardless of what they do to it internally.

I think it's quite common to refer to a new revision when Apple says 'new model'.

So just because the 17" PB always had the same case and CPU there were still several revisions (5 to be exact). OTOH just because Apple changed the supplier of a fan doesn't mean there's a rev B MBP already around.

Motherboard revisions are however another story. Some people, claim that in current MBPs there's already a rev B motherboard. But that's difficult to judge, because there are no hard facts - normally it's just 'a Genius said' or 'the Apple rep on the phone said'. Apple doesn't release motherboard revs to the general public.

slugslugslug · Aug 13, 2006, 10:16 AM

I thought they actually print "Rev. A" (or B or C or whatever) right on the motherboard somewhere. And FWIW I was under the impression that in Apple's world, the original appearance of a product isn't Rev. anything, and then the 2nd iteration is Rev. A, but that's neither here nor there.

Especially since MacBook owners not all that likely to be able to see every inch of their computers' motherboards.

brokenjago · Aug 13, 2006, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Unlikely without a massive redesign. The trackpad on the 15" overlaps the optical drive bay, so they have to use thinner optical drives in the 15" than in the 17".

Surely someone's made a DL burner that thin in the last 8 months?

dsidote · Aug 13, 2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

That's 12% faster at the same clockrate. Merom also clocks higher, so there is more performance to be had there.

But it also depends on your apps. Are you using the apps that are 1% faster or 25% faster?

That is a good point. The biggest gains were observed in audio/video ecoding. If you are into A/V work then you would certainly be wise to wait. I've read a few reports that state that the merom processor tops out at 2.33 MHz. Is this correct? Does that mean that apple will not be giving the MBP a speed bump for a while after the switch to merom?

To add more fuel to the fire - I was looking on the Best Buy website and all of the apple portables except the 17" MBP are listed as SOLD OUT. I hope this means that the update is imminent (Tuesday?).

I planned on getting a MBP yesterday but something came up. I think I will wait until Tuesday to see what happens. I hope my wife can stand it until then because I am driving her crazy

Cheers.

mduell · Aug 13, 2006, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by brokenjago

Surely someone's made a DL burner that thin in the last 8 months?

Who else is using the thinner 9mm drives? No major manufs that I know of...

brokenjago · Aug 14, 2006, 12:40 AM

Well, I can imagine that Apple is commissioning or pressuring someone to come up with one with the promise of X amount in orders....

I imagine they sell at least 100,000 MBPs per quarter (maybe not solely 15") and that someone would like a peice of that pie... besides, once it's invented, other people will start using it I'm sure.

Just a thought, I have no real basis for this statement other than my own reasoning.