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The Final Dakar
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Oct 22, 2012, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What the hell did I do wrong now?
?
     
OAW
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Oct 22, 2012, 10:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa View Post
Our family cat when I was growing up was declawed as well. And he stayed indoors. I had no say in the matter. I have done my research and come to the conclusion that declawing a cat is selfish and unnecessary, not to mention mutilating. Declawing a cat is like cutting off human fingers at the knuckle.
You can't be serious? I grew up with several cats. None declawed. My mother was a school teacher. So I don't know if she was just against it or if the surgery was prohibitively expensive. I'm on my second cat as an adult. My first I had for 17 years. And I can tell you from experience. I have NEVER in life been around a cat that confined itself to scratching the little towers that they sell in the store.

Originally Posted by Mrjingleusa
Declawing a cat serves only one purpose: to make it so a cat doesn't scratch it's precious owner's furniture.
A keen observation of the obvious. And when it comes to my leather set ... it's not a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Mrjingleusa
Cats are born with claws - there is no legitimate reason to remove them.
And they are born with testicles and ovaries too. Yet interestingly enough we don't seem to hear the same sort of consternation when they are neutered or spayed. Moreover, after de-clawing both of my cats were back in the saddle running and jumping like normal within a week. But the neutering/spaying .... several months went by before I saw normal energy levels. Imagine that.

Originally Posted by Mrjingleusa
All of the defense of declawing comes from people who have declawed their cats and feel the need to defend their choice in doing so, and mutilating a cat so your furniture doesn't get scratched is unnecessary, selfish, and cruel.
Just sayin'.
This is your perspective and I respect that. But I encourage you to look at it another way. We ALREADY have an over-population of cats in America. This is why the Humane Society is always encouraging people to adopt rather than to purchase. Now imagine how much WORSE this problem would be if all the potential cat owners out there who aren't very keen on their furniture being destroyed opted out b/c the procedure was outlawed. Would you find euthanasia a preferable alternative? I'm just sayin' .....

OAW
     
subego
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Oct 22, 2012, 10:29 AM
 
I'm not sure the neutering analogy is right. If given the choice between balls and thumbs, most would keep the thumbs.

OTOH, you are correct in most would rather lose the thumbs and balls rather than die, assuming they would get a cat's life out of it.
     
sek929
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Oct 22, 2012, 11:51 AM
 
I consider declawing to be mutilation.

One of the main reasons I think cats are so damn cool is their razor-sharp retractable claws. If your precious furniture is worth so much then get a dog, or a bird, or a fish.

Plus, cats rarely scratch many things, they usually just pick one thing to scratch up. So if they pick a favored chair just deal with it, that's the scratching post now.

Neutering an animal to prohibit unwanted procreation and stop territorial behavior is in no way similar to removing chunks of a cat's feet to save your furniture.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 22, 2012, 12:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I consider declawing to be mutilation.
I do too and won't even consider it, and you should see the price tags on some of the pieces in my house*. If you take time to train them and have good alternatives, your furniture will be safe. A great solution is to have several of these throughout the house.

http://www.properpet.com/imperialcat-00130ffishonlined.html
http://www.properpet.com/imperial-cat-three-piece-nesting-scratcher-red.html




(*not bragging, just making a statement)
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OAW
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Oct 22, 2012, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I consider declawing to be mutilation.

One of the main reasons I think cats are so damn cool is their razor-sharp retractable claws.  If your precious furniture is worth so much then get a dog, or a bird, or a fish.

Plus, cats rarely scratch many things, they usually just pick one thing to scratch up.  So if they pick a favored chair just deal with it, that's the scratching post now.

Neutering an animal to prohibit unwanted procreation and stop territorial behavior is in no way similar to removing chunks of a cat's feet to save your furniture.
So are you saying that cutting a male cat's balls out to keep him from pissing on your walls and carpet is cool ... but de-clawing to keep him from ruining you furniture is not? Like ... really?

I suppose my point here is ... how is removing a cat's claws considered to be "mutilation" but removing their ovaries or testicles is not? I'm just sayin' ....

OAW
     
Shaddim
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Oct 22, 2012, 12:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
So are you saying that cutting a male cat's balls out to keep him from pissing on your walls and carpet is cool ... but de-clawing to keep him from ruining you furniture is not? Like ... really?
I suppose my point here is ... how is removing a cat's claws considered to be "mutilation" but removing their ovaries or testicles is not? I'm just sayin' ....
OAW
My balls are disconnected, though intact are non-functional, and it doesn't bother me. However, cutting off all my fingertips would be a real bitch.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 22, 2012, 12:51 PM
 
subego already answered your question.

Edit: Jacked!
     
Shaddim
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Oct 22, 2012, 12:54 PM
 
Also, if you feel really bad and want him to have something he can lick, you could get him some Neuticles.
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OAW
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Oct 22, 2012, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
My balls are disconnected, though intact are non-functional, and it doesn't bother me. However, cutting off all my fingertips would be a real bitch.
Aren't you the one that just had a baby? Am I missing something?

OAW
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 22, 2012, 02:32 PM
 
Cat populations are sufficiently high, unless you plan on breeding because you have a pedigree cat or two, then its considered good form to spay or neuter your cat.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Shaddim
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Oct 22, 2012, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Aren't you the one that just had a baby? Am I missing something?
OAW
Yes, I'd been fixed for years, then I had the procedure reversed, and then had it re-done after Emma was born. Now I have some swimmers on ice, however, just in case.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 22, 2012, 04:21 PM
 
I think we can solve this definitively. Let's find a eunuch and ask if he'd rather have his balls but no fingertips.
     
andi*pandi
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Oct 22, 2012, 04:28 PM
 
You don't fix a male cat because he will pee everywhere marking territory, you fix him to stop procreation. I've heard that some fixed male cats still mark territory.

My cats do not scratch anything other than their house. I have to get them another one though since the dog has taken it over.
     
subego
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Oct 22, 2012, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I think we can solve this definitively. Let's find a eunuch and ask if he'd rather have his balls but no fingertips.
If you have your fingertips cut off, your balls get more sensitive to compensate.
     
subego
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Oct 22, 2012, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
(*not bragging, just making a statement)
Better, but you don't quite have the hang of it yet.

What you are trying to show is your willingness to sacrifice personal property for your cats. What is of concern then is your attachment to said property, and your ability to replace it.

Not only does the large price of the property not demonstrate those things, it implies an ability to replace it, which actually takes away from the strength of your argument.

Rich people forfeit the ability to play the sacrifice card when they lose a couch. Life's tough that way.
     
OAW
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Oct 22, 2012, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Yes, I'd been fixed for years, then I had the procedure reversed, and then had it re-done after Emma was born. Now I have some swimmers on ice, however, just in case.
Gotcha. Well congratulations my man. Trust me I know ... a little girl is a blessing.

OAW
     
OAW
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Oct 22, 2012, 07:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
You don't fix a male cat because he will pee everywhere marking territory, you fix him to stop procreation. I've heard that some fixed male cats still mark territory.
My cats do not scratch anything other than their house. I have to get them another one though since the dog has taken it over.
Sorry. But I had a male cat for a DECADE and didn't neuter him because as a man I didn't want to go there. He pissed all over the carpet in my apartment and I didn't worry about it because A) t wasn't my spot, and B) I paid a security deposit to cover all that. But when I bought my own place I wasn't having that. I paid the mortgage ... not the cat. So the nuts had to go. Those that are on the PETA bandwagon .... sorry to disappoint you. But again, I took care of that cat for 17 years. And I had to basically be forced by my family to take him to the vet and put him down when he got oral cancer and could no longer eat. I didn't want to do it .... but I REFUSED to let him starve. So whoever wants to think of me as the "bad guy" for de-clawing a cat ... knock yourself out.

OAW
     
subego
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Oct 22, 2012, 07:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
Sorry. But I had a male cat for a DECADE and didn't neuter him because as a man I didn't want to go there. He pissed all over the carpet in my apartment and I didn't worry about it because A) t wasn't my spot, and B) I paid a security deposit to cover all that.
Dude... Dude...
     
Shaddim
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Oct 22, 2012, 10:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What you are trying to show is your willingness to sacrifice personal property for your cats. What is of concern then is your attachment to said property, and your ability to replace it.
What you are trying to show is your willingness to sacrifice personal property for your cats. What is of concern then is your attachment to said property, and your ability to replace it.

Not only does the large price of the property not demonstrate those things, it implies an ability to replace it, which actually takes away from the strength of your argument.

Rich people forfeit the ability to play the sacrifice card when they lose a couch. Life's tough that way.
You're implying that some of it IS replaceable when it isn't, no matter how much you have. My cat Jackson's favorite place to sleep is my great-great grandmother's rocker, and any of them are liable to sleep on anything at any time.
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subego
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Oct 23, 2012, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
You're implying that some of it IS replaceable when it isn't, no matter how much you have. My cat Jackson's favorite place to sleep is my great-great grandmother's rocker, and any of them are liable to sleep on anything at any time.
What I'm implying is replaceable is the stuff you felt obligated to tell us is expensive. If what I was supposed to do was understand the sentemental value of the furniture in question, instructing me to look at the price tag on it doesn't achieve your goal.
     
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Oct 23, 2012, 01:55 PM
 
YO!
     
andi*pandi
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Oct 23, 2012, 02:44 PM
 
This thread has gone on long enough without pix. POSTKITTEHPIX!
     
Shaddim
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Oct 23, 2012, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What I'm implying is replaceable is the stuff you felt obligated to tell us is expensive. If what I was supposed to do was understand the sentemental value of the furniture in question, instructing me to look at the price tag on it doesn't achieve your goal.
Not the sentimental value so much, I've never met the lady (my g-g grandmother), but the rarity. There are certain pieces that simply cannot be replaced, at least not without going and robbing a present owner's home.
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subego
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Oct 23, 2012, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
This thread has gone on long enough without pix. POSTKITTEHPIX!
Check out the price tag on my cat's pillow.

     
Shaddim
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Oct 23, 2012, 05:59 PM
 
Nice table and cool cat.

Also, you rolled a 3, I think you missed. Either that, or you made your saving throw. Yay.
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subego
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Oct 23, 2012, 06:38 PM
 
Thank you.

I made the saving throw, but there's still a claw/claw/bite to consider.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 24, 2012, 07:09 AM
 
That cat looks like he's a dick.
     
sek929
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Oct 24, 2012, 07:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post

So are you saying that cutting a male cat's balls out to keep him from pissing on your walls and carpet is cool ... but de-clawing to keep him from ruining you furniture is not? Like ... really?
I suppose my point here is ... how is removing a cat's claws considered to be "mutilation" but removing their ovaries or testicles is not? I'm just sayin' ....
OAW
Because the situation of animal overpopulation and subsequent euthanasia is more cruel than the initial surgery to prevent it.

I forget who said it first in this thread, but they're right about people who are pro-declawing being incredibly defensive about it.

I stated my opinion, and a great deal of cat owners and lovers agree with me. It is my opinion that people who wish to declaw cats should not own them in the first place, deal with it.
     
subego
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Oct 24, 2012, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That cat looks like he's a dick.
Huge.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 24, 2012, 11:58 AM
 
     
subego
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Oct 24, 2012, 12:31 PM
 
     
mattyb  (op)
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Oct 24, 2012, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That cat looks like he's a dick.
And you wonder why.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 25, 2012, 06:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by mattyb View Post
And you wonder why.
Because subego's cat looks like a dick?
     
reader50
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:05 AM
 
We caught this cat one night. He'd slipped the collar somehow, so the owner is unknown. Must have grown up with dogs because he barked instead of meow'd.



We let him go in the morning.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:20 AM
 
Dude, that's not a cat. That's a skunk.
     
subego
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:34 AM
 
Racist.
     
Shaddim
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Oct 25, 2012, 09:35 AM
 
We have coons, they're awesome. The mama parades her little ones out and shows them off every Summer. Cute little buggers.
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Oct 25, 2012, 10:54 AM
 
Aaahh yes, the smallest member of the bear family.
     
mattyb  (op)
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Oct 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
 
Aren't they a bit, vicious?
     
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Oct 25, 2012, 11:40 AM
 
I, too, fell for the hype on the Internet and the unnecessarily graphic photos of a supposed declaw procedure. When I got my first cat (versus those I grew up with), I was sure I wouldn't get her declawed. Instead I diligently tried to train her to scratch only in designated areas and leave the carpeting of my rented apartment alone. I also used silicone claw caps (SoftPaws).

Lo and behold, when she was about a year old, she decided "f this, imma scratch wherever I damn well please" and started destroying everything. Not only that, but the previously mostly-easy task of applying claw caps suddenly became a struggle with an enraged furball trying to kill me and everything around her.

So I ended up getting her declawed when she was around a year old. This is a procedure typically done at about thirteen weeks, since at that age cats recover very quickly from surgery. Instead, it took Sumi three or four days to fully recover.

When I got my second cat, Ninja, I opted to have her declawed and spayed simultaneously. I chose a vet who used a laser. Ninja's surgery went perfectly fine and she recovered in less than 48 hours (I let the vet keep her overnight to make sure there weren't any issues coming off the drugs or anything).

Neither cat has litterbox issues. Neither cat has behavioral issues. Ninja has successfully worked both of our dogs into submission and is the clear alpha of our animal family, without needing claws. In fact, I'm extremely thankful that she DOESN'T have claws now, or else we would be taking both dogs to the vet on a weekly basis for slashed up noses, mouths, ears, and even worse - eyes.

Removing the claw from a cat is not akin to removing part of a human's finger. Cats retract their claws - front and back - when not in use. They do not walk on the tiny sliver of bone that the claw is attached to. When done properly, a declawing procedure does not remove any portion of the toe that allows the cat to be mobile. When done properly, the procedure does not leave infected, open, disgusting wounds that are "filled with glue in the hopes that it will heal".

You should only ever have the front claws removed - cats do use the rear claws for traction, climbing, and - when necessary - defense. Cats' rear legs are more powerful than their front and, as such, they do a lot of kicking with their rear paws to defend against predators and other cats, along with biting. Additionally, cats do not scratch up each other, furniture, pets, or children with their rear claws. The most you'll have to do is clip them infrequently when they're kittens. Once the keratin gets denser and thicker, the claws become dull enough to not really need clipping.

If you choose to have your cat declawed, educate yourself - and I don't mean by going to a bunch of websites designed to make you feel like the most despicable person on the planet for considering this. I mean look at the actual science and physiology of it. Talk to your vet about it. Make sure that you are taking your pet to a vet who will use either a scalpel or a laser for the surgery - not clippers of any kind. The scalpel/laser route carefully severs the tendon and removes the sliver of bone and attached claw from each toe, plus the dew claw - what is left behind is a clean cut with no bone fragments or areas to become infected. Laser procedures are far cheaper than they were even five years ago and have the benefit of sealing off nerve endings at the time of surgery, which allows for significantly less pain and faster recovery time.

And, at the end of the day, if you live in a country that has not outlawed declawing, you have a right to make this choice for the health and safety of your pets and family. I think it's pretty ridiculous how vicious anti-declaw folks get, and it doesn't help anyone to berate and vilify someone for making this choice. And, given how much my cats love me and what total attention whores they are whenever they're around me, I'm pretty sure they don't hold this against me one bit.
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subego
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Oct 25, 2012, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Removing the claw from a cat is not akin to removing part of a human's finger. Cats retract their claws - front and back - when not in use. They do not walk on the tiny sliver of bone that the claw is attached to.
Am I supposed to read the second two sentences as support for the first?
     
Shaddim
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Oct 25, 2012, 12:15 PM
 
I'm sure I could have my cats' ears lasered off and they'd still love me and come to me to snuggle, but that doesn't mean it's humane. I'm not having what equates to their finger tips being removed. Seriously, look at the tissue that's taken off, there is bone in there. Ours don't scratch us or damage things, they've been trained. The only real issue we have is Princess (our ditzy Angora) wets herself, because Jackson likes to ambush and scare the shit out of her (yes, some poo has come out as well), and I doubt the solution to that is having her de-clawed.
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subego
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Oct 25, 2012, 01:02 PM
 
I had a cat declawed, and would never do it again.

There was one mildly entertaining angle. She didn't understand that weird paper shit was litter, and I couldn't do the standard teaching maneuver because it involves manhandling their paws.

After not knowing what to do for close to a day, I took a whiz in the litter box in front of her. Her eyes got huge and she was off to the races.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 25, 2012, 01:07 PM
 
Thanks for that mental image.
     
subego
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Oct 25, 2012, 01:09 PM
 
No charge for that.
     
mattyb  (op)
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Oct 25, 2012, 01:45 PM
 
Yeah, just before going to bed as well.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 25, 2012, 02:58 PM
 
Cats use their claws all the time. They may not walk on them but they certainly climb with them, they aren't just for killing things.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
olePigeon
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Oct 26, 2012, 10:33 AM
 
Only advice I can offer is:

1. Do not declaw your cat. Buy a scratching post and sprinkle some catnip on it.
2. Cats are trainable, buy a spray bottle and anti-claw sticky paper (for your furniture), or if you have patience, clip or boot the claws until he/she learns.
3. Clean the litter box daily.
4. Get all proper vaccinations and shots for your kitty, and get a collar with tags or an electronic chip (best option, in my opinion.)
5. Cats really should stay indoors. If you insist on an outdoor cat, 1/2 the life expectancy of the cat. If you live in an urban area, it's extremely likely your cat will contract feline AIDS and you'll have to put it down.

By the way, the claw is an extension of the last digit in the cat's paw. Declawing a cat is like removing the last digit in all your fingers and toes.
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mattyb  (op)
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Oct 26, 2012, 10:51 AM
 
The kitten has landed. Pictures soon.
     
 
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