[Eug Wanker]

Heh, on the news they showed a Wii casuality... A family member with a huge swollen black eye from a flying Wiimote.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Surely you aren't saying that thin wrist straps is equal to having thousands of consoles die and then charging people to repair them?

You're forgetting the $3000 TV's with a hole in em.

[icruise]

I'd really like to know how much of an issue that really was. Regardless, it took Microsoft a year to make good on their faulty hardware, while Nintendo corrected the strap issue within a month. I'm not trying to come down too hard on MS -- they did the right thing at least, but I've so many stories about people having trouble getting their Xboxes repaired, or even being blamed for problems that were clearly MS's. It makes it difficult to just praise them for this decision.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

You're forgetting the $3000 TV's with a hole in em.

please explain?

[icruise]

He's referring to the highly publicized pictures of people's TVs that were damaged when the Wiimote strap broke and it went flying (mostly during Wii sports bowling, it seems).

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

please explain?

Some people apparently lost control of their bodies, swung the controller forward really hard, let go of the controller, had the strap break, and then had the controller smash into their TVs. It sounds like these people must be freakishly strong, so I don't want to piss them off — but I really don't think that's as much Nintendo's fault as, say, if Microsoft were to release a firmware update that turned 360s into doorstops.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by icruise 

He's referring to the highly publicized pictures of people's TVs that were damaged when the Wiimote strap broke and it went flying.

aah ok

[starman]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Surely you aren't saying that thin wrist straps is equal to having thousands of consoles die and then charging people to repair them?

Let's recap:

My 360 is fine.
My Wiimote wrist strap broke.

[MindFad]

3 more, baby!

[icruise]

Originally Posted by starman 

Let's recap:

My 360 is fine.
My Wiimote wrist strap broke.

My 360 is fine and so are my straps. Your point?

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Or rather, I choose the product that is the best games for the money? At this stage, I feel that Nintendo and Microsoft are trying the hardest to please me as a customer... and of the two, Microsoft has a much more appealing product for me.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

You can hate MS all you want but the 360 is a great product. Period. It's success is in no way the result of anything other than a great team bringing a great product to market and letting everyone know how great it is.

One of the reasons I bought a Mac was an ideological one. I didn't like MS and I still don't.

Then I grew up.

Call it selfish if you want but life is too short to deprive ourselves of the enjoyment of something out of silly ideology. This isn't life or death, or environmental disaster, it's a GAME. If you like it buy it, if you don't…DON'T. It really is that simple.

Okay, it's not about blindly "hating MS" because of some childish rivalry. It's about not supporting monopolistic companies. Microsoft may not have entered the gaming market as a monopoly, but ultimately what money and power it gains in the gaming market further enriches and empowers the Windows and MS Office monopoly company. Though the departments may be different, it's the same company after all.

Is life too short to consider who you're patronizing and what they stand for? Or is your enjoyment of a product or service ALL that matters to you? Perhaps life is better lived by simply being practical and doing what best suits us at the moment, rather than following some "silly ideology"....?

The act of financially supporting a company (via buying its products or otherwise) is not totally disparate and ethically divorced from what that company publicly does with such money and power, simply because it was through your knowing support that such company was able to achieve its goals.

Of course, you only contributed a small percentage of that money and power, so the responsibility is distributed, and you think "Hey, it's not my problem! I only buy what I like, with no consideration for what I am supporting, because it really counts so little".

But that is just a way of deflecting responsibility, because if most people thought that way, we'd have monopolies and unethical corporations everywhere-- Oh, wait, that's right, we do, and most people do think this way, which is why we have monopolies and unethical corporations every where, which ironically somehow makes you feel better and, in your mind, washes you of any responsibility whatsoever, because so many people do it!

However, to me choice and personal freedom are rather important things in my life, so there's no way in hell I would purposefully support a monopolistic company which has bullied and buried so many just because I think a game is cool. So yes, I'd say that to totally discount the effects of your actions is selfish and dishonest.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

However, to me choice and personal freedom are rather important things in my life, so there's no way in hell I would purposefully support a monopolistic company which has bullied and buried so many just because I think a game is cool. So yes, I'd say that to totally discount the effects of your actions is selfish and dishonest.

You mean like Nintendo used to?

[starman]

Originally Posted by icruise 

My 360 is fine and so are my straps. Your point?

My point is that it seems to me that there are people here who BLINDLY hate MS, despite the fact that:

1) They're taking care of their customers JUST LIKE NINTENDO.
2) They have a great product JUST LIKE NINTENDO.
3) Their first run out of the gate with their latest hardware had problems JUST LIKE NINTENDO.

However, when MS fixes the problem, people don't care. They sh*t on MS because they're MS. I'm stunned at how immature people's attitudes towards MS is.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally Posted by icruise 

He's referring to the highly publicized pictures of people's TVs that were damaged when the Wiimote strap broke and it went flying (mostly during Wii sports bowling, it seems).

I was at a friend's house this evening playing bowling. I had already played it before, but another friend who hadn't played it tossed the Wiimote quite violently across the very small room because he didn't have the wrist strap on. It was somewhat ironic because we told him earlier in the evening to put it on. Anyway, it didn't go near the tv (went quite well above), but unless the straps break, it's people's own boody fault that they **** up their television; it's not that difficult to hang on to unless you're being a dumb-ass.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by starman 

You mean like Nintendo used to?

I've already addressed this issue in respect to Nintendo and Sony on page 65. Basically we go back to the idea of "the lesser evil." Also note that is past tense, as you correctly put it.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

I've already addressed this issue in respect to Nintendo and Sony on page 65. Basically we go back to the idea of "the lesser evil." Also note that is past tense, as you correctly put it.

Oh, I see. So this whole thing is irrelevant if someone else does it in the future. Got it.

[Hawkeye_a]

starman, the last report i heard on this rediculious XB360 warranty issue was that Microsoft is only issuing a 1 year warranty for it's U.S. customers, not worlwide customers. if true, do u still stand behind them ? if not, please disregard, but i think i read about it on IGN, not sure now.

Compared to Nintendo which replaced 3.x million straps for free without needing any exchange/return program on a global scale.

I thought the XBox360 was a fine product(apart from the anticompetitive nature of the way M$ was selling it at a loss) until i watched the IGNs top 10 events for 2006, where they outlined the red ring of death, and nevermind a "faulty product", the fact that they initially didnt own upto it, doesnt bode well with me as a customer.

Nintendo might have been a bully with developers and in my opinion the paid the price, but as far as quality hardware and software that they themselves put out, you cant say they are anywhere close to as bad as Sonys and M$'s.

[TETENAL]

In Europe the legal minimum for warranty is 2 years.

[Hawkeye_a]

Here in Australia it's 1 year. but there's a loop hole which lets Microsoft put in a clause which *could* state that "if it was out of original packaging" or "if DVD tray was opened" the warranty reverts to 90 days.

Either way this article i read/watched specifically states that Microsoft was only offering the 1 year warranty to U.S. 360 owners.

[Mrjinglesusa]

First off, Sony is selling the PS3 at a loss too. Is that anti-competative? Or is that trying to be competative?

Secondly, the "failure rate" on the 360 is well within that of a normal consumer electronics device. The only reason you hear more about it is because gamers are typically on forums and such. Thus, you hear all about the "massive failure rate" of the 360 and how it's a "faulty product". Fact is, there are ~7 MILLION of these in the market. Taking an average consumer electronics failure rate of 1 in 6 (16%) That's 1.12 MILLION 360s out there with problems. Let's assume a 3% failure rate. That's 210,000 faulty 360s. Hell, it is estimated that in their first year, flat-panel TVs had failure rates of 40%, whereas harddrives in computers are around 2% failure rate.

I've had my 360 since last February. Never had a red ring. Never had it crash or freeze. There are MILLIONS of others out there like me who have never had a problem. Just like here on MacNN, if you read these forums you would think Apple computers are full of problems.

Fact is, the number of 360s that are bad is well within the normal failure rate of consumer electronics devices. It is a VOCAL MINORITY that are having problems. It is by no means a widespread issue indicative of a "faulty product".

[Hawkeye_a]

I dont know what the standard failure rates for consumer electronics are, so i'll just go by what you said; 16%.

Thats fine. electronics do fail. and according to you 16% will fail. from what ive read/heard:

-the XB360 came with 90 days warranty (which is rediculious)
-it was a software update that killed these XB360s, a software update released by Microsoft.
-inorder to fix these XB360s Microsoft was charging customers.
-they have now offered 1 year warranty for U.S. customers, and until someone here points out otherwise, international customers with this problem are stuck with it.

So failure rates are acceptable.... it's after sales support and warranties thats at question here.

In comparison:
-People started reporting NDS Lite hinges cracking..... Nintendo went ahead and provided brand new units, no questions asked. usually in consumer electronic devices, if there is any "physical" damage to a product, the warranty is not honored.
-A few retards who strapped the Wiimote to their hands and then literally threw the thing out of their hands (which is not the intended use of the product, with ample warning in the manuals and within games), while playing, thus causing the strap to break, prompted Nintendo to supply better straps to all people with Wii-motes, with no returns/exchange policy requirement.

SO failure rates aside, which company is doing the right thing by it's customers without any hassle ?

IMO, that profit Nintendo makes from selling the Wii is being put to good use in after sales service for it's customers, something the companies selling their products at a loss would rather spend less on.

[Dakar²]

16% seems a bit high to me. 5% seems more reasonable.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

16% seems a bit high to me. 5% seems more reasonable.

Perhaps you are right. I got that number as quoted from a computer science professor from this article:

Consumer service plans: Worth the cost? (Page 1 of 3)

At any rate, 5% or 16%, the fact remains that there are literally hundreds of thousands (perhaps even millions) of 360s out there that have failed or are likely to fail. This failure is not indicative of a wide-spread problem with the 360. That was my point. There are also literally MILLIONS of 360 owners who have not had, and likely never will have, any problems. You don't hear as much from these people....

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I dont know what the standard failure rates for consumer electronics are, so i'll just go by what you said; 16%.

Thats fine. electronics do fail. and according to you 16% will fail. from what ive read/heard:

-the XB360 came with 90 days warranty (which is rediculious)
-it was a software update that killed these XB360s, a software update released by Microsoft.
-inorder to fix these XB360s Microsoft was charging customers.
-they have now offered 1 year warranty for U.S. customers, and until someone here points out otherwise, international customers with this problem are stuck with it.

So failure rates are acceptable.... it's after sales support and warranties thats at question here.

In comparison:
-People started reporting NDS Lite hinges cracking..... Nintendo went ahead and provided brand new units, no questions asked. usually in consumer electronic devices, if there is any "physical" damage to a product, the warranty is not honored.
-A few retards who strapped the Wiimote to their hands and then literally threw the thing out of their hands (which is not the intended use of the product, with ample warning in the manuals and within games), while playing, thus causing the strap to break, prompted Nintendo to supply better straps to all people with Wii-motes, with no returns/exchange policy requirement.

SO failure rates aside, which company is doing the right thing by it's customers without any hassle ?

IMO, that profit Nintendo makes from selling the Wii is being put to good use in after sales service for it's customers, something the companies selling their products at a loss would rather spend less on.

We don't really know how many people that the update actually effected. Microsofts spin on the whole thing is that the only consoles that would have been bricked, were ones that had illegal software loaded on them that allow piracy.

I think the whole situation is messed up, but I also beleive that it is being blown out of proportion. I'm willing to bet that a miniscule percentage of units were killed by the update.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I thought the XBox360 was a fine product(apart from the anticompetitive nature of the way M$ was selling it at a loss) until i watched the IGNs top 10 events for 2006, where they outlined the red ring of death, and nevermind a "faulty product", the fact that they initially didnt own upto it, doesnt bode well with me as a customer.

Nintendo might have been a bully with developers and in my opinion the paid the price, but as far as quality hardware and software that they themselves put out, you cant say they are anywhere close to as bad as Sonys and M$'s.

If you spent half as much time actually playing with these consoles instead of bitching about them, you may find that the 360 is a damn good machine.

BTW: remember my strap DID break. My 360 DID NOT.

[Dark Helmet]

Here is the scary part that even I didn't expect. So far the PS3 is the ONLY system I have that hasn't given me any sort of problem whatsoever.

[sek929]

My 360 has spent a few days on constantly.

I've played for hours, then used it to play my iPod for hours, then watched Simpson DVDs for hours.

It has never froze, burped, or skipped a beat.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Here is the scary part that even I didn't expect. So far the PS3 is the ONLY system I have that hasn't given me any sort of problem whatsoever.

Actually, I have had the same experience, but I think it's mostly just due to the amount of time I've spent playing that various systems (the PS3 is probably the least played so far, partially because of a lack of games and partially because I got it last). The Wii has actually locked up on me twice, both times when accessing the online store. And the 360 has locked up a few times as well. But I wouldn't consider any of them to have serious problems in this regard, by any means.

[sek929]

I remember my friend's old PS used to freeze at least once every time we played it.

Although my xbox did sh!t the bed this year, to best of my recollection it only froze once or twice in 5 years.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Actually, I have had the same experience, but I think it's mostly just due to the amount of time I've spent playing that various systems (the PS3 is probably the least played so far, partially because of a lack of games and partially because I got it last). The Wii has actually locked up on me twice, both times when accessing the online store. And the 360 has locked up a few times as well. But I wouldn't consider any of them to have serious problems in this regard, by any means.

I've actually been using the PS3 the same as the Wii but mostly for playing demos, PS2 games and watching a TON of regular DVD's and Blu-ray. Not a single hickup.

Anyway, IGN called the PS3 the best new system of the year:
http://bestof.ign.com/2006/gear/1.html

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

Okay, it's not about blindly "hating MS" because of some childish rivalry. It's about not supporting monopolistic companies. Microsoft may not have entered the gaming market as a monopoly, but ultimately what money and power it gains in the gaming market further enriches and empowers the Windows and MS Office monopoly company. Though the departments may be different, it's the same company after all.

Is life too short to consider who you're patronizing and what they stand for? Or is your enjoyment of a product or service ALL that matters to you? Perhaps life is better lived by simply being practical and doing what best suits us at the moment, rather than following some "silly ideology"....?

The act of financially supporting a company (via buying its products or otherwise) is not totally disparate and ethically divorced from what that company publicly does with such money and power, simply because it was through your knowing support that such company was able to achieve its goals.

Of course, you only contributed a small percentage of that money and power, so the responsibility is distributed, and you think "Hey, it's not my problem! I only buy what I like, with no consideration for what I am supporting, because it really counts so little".

But that is just a way of deflecting responsibility, because if most people thought that way, we'd have monopolies and unethical corporations everywhere-- Oh, wait, that's right, we do, and most people do think this way, which is why we have monopolies and unethical corporations every where, which ironically somehow makes you feel better and, in your mind, washes you of any responsibility whatsoever, because so many people do it!

However, to me choice and personal freedom are rather important things in my life, so there's no way in hell I would purposefully support a monopolistic company which has bullied and buried so many just because I think a game is cool. So yes, I'd say that to totally discount the effects of your actions is selfish and dishonest.

Really, I got it. Though I don't really think you got ME.

I disagree, and I am good with that. I have been through your whole way of thinking in my own life and I found it to be just as egotistical and self-serving as those who go the other way…only less fun.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I've actually been using the PS3 the same as the Wii but mostly for playing demos, PS2 games and watching a TON of regular DVD's and Blu-ray. Not a single hickup.

Anyway, IGN called the PS3 the best new system of the year:
http://bestof.ign.com/2006/gear/1.html

Ahem.

Kinda kills their credibility in MY book…

[sek929]

Plus best NEW system would only be a race between Wii and PS3, unless some other system was released in 2006.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Really, I got it. Though I don't really think you got ME.

I disagree, and I am good with that. I have been through your whole way of thinking in my own life and I found it to be just as egotistical and self-serving as those who go the other way…only less fun.

Refusing, to your own detriment, to support organizations that do evil things is egotistical and self-serving?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Plus best NEW system would only be a race between Wii and PS3, unless some other system was released in 2006.

Well ya. But that is still saying a lot.

The Wii might have been most sold because of availability but this is the second source that has said there is more lust for the PS3.

As for the Zune, I thought the same at first but you have to remember that it is NEW product and the points they mention are true. The Zune does have a nice big screen and Wifi if they ever decide to use it to its full potential.

[sek929]

I honestly can't wait until my roomate buys PS3, GT HD is gonna kick total ass.

Hopefully Forza 2 can tide me over until then.

[Dakar²]

Lust doesn't mean people are gonna plunk down $600 for the PS3, though.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I honestly can't wait until my roomate buys PS3, GT HD is gonna kick total ass.

Considering that it's been canceled, maybe not so much. Unless you're referring to GT5.

[sek929]

Right you are dakar, hey! That rymed!

I lust after 50" HDTVs, doesn't mean I am gonna buy one in this decade.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Considering that it's been canceled, maybe not so much. Unless you're referring to GT5.

I changed my post from GT5 to HD because I though they changed it.

Whatever, you know what I meant.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Ahem.

Kinda kills their credibility in MY book…

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Considering that it's been canceled, maybe not so much. Unless you're referring to GT5.

Good cuz micro transactions was a stupid idea anyway.

The demo for GTHD friggin rocks though and it is only time trials, I can't imagine how much more awesome it will be in a year graphically and when you race against cars. The GTHD demo that game reviewers tried 3 months ago has blurry crowds, iffy lighting and framerate issues all which was fixed in only 3 months. With another year to make more changes and use the PS3's horsepower the game will be incredible.

For me I am the most excited for Motostorm, Lair and warhawk. I can't think of 3 games I am excited for on the Wii other than maybe Mario galaxies or Metroid but neither got me super excited.

Both the PS3 and Xbox have a steady flow of awesome games on the way while I expect the Wii to have the usual Nintendo game delays with 10 month droughts for more in depth games.

[exca1ibur]

Well I just picked up a PS3. They had ONE left at EB Games. Since I got a Christmas bonus for work I figured what the hell. I got Resistance of Man and was up till about 3am. Good game, get better as you move through it. GTHD is amazing. Can't wait for that one for sure. Think I'll update to a 40" HDTV next month now. My current one I think I'll sell to my cousin, he just got a 360 and doesn't have an HDTV. So far I have to say its a pretty good system. Can't wait for FF12, GT5, and MGS:4, and motorstorm (Still have to DL that demo later).

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Well I just picked up a PS3. They had ONE left at EB Games. Since I got a Christmas bonus for work I figured what the hell. I got Resistance of Man and was up till about 3am. Good game, get better as you move through it.

I haven't had time to play it much but after a couple hours it seems to be Call of Duty with Aliens. Does the whole game take place is destroyed towns or does it move to more interesting locations later on?

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Actually, I have had the same experience, but I think it's mostly just due to the amount of time I've spent playing that various systems (the PS3 is probably the least played so far, partially because of a lack of games and partially because I got it last). The Wii has actually locked up on me twice, both times when accessing the online store. And the 360 has locked up a few times as well. But I wouldn't consider any of them to have serious problems in this regard, by any means.

I spent most of the time on the 360 and now it's in an upright position. I used to put it horizontally. Anyway, it crashed on me when I was playing NFS: Carbon and reported that the game disc might be damage or dirty. In fact, the disc was perfectly normal, no scratch or dust on it. I have no clue. It happened on my NFS: Most Wanted game disc and I ended up do an exchange at the store, but the problem still existed. Blame it on EA, but can be the DVD drive itself.

The Wii and PS3 are fine.

[ort888]

I hear it gets much cooler toward the end.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I haven't had time to play it much but after a couple hours it seems to be Call of Duty with Aliens. Does the whole game take place is destroyed towns or does it move to more interesting locations later on?

It's like a cross of Half Life 2 and Call of Duty, I'd say. I branches out to being on this alien ship at a few points, I haven't finished it yet to say were its leading now. You can have some pretty nice gun battles. All I can say is never get into a gun fight next to a gas station, and when ducking don't stay behind a car too long they aim for the gas tank quite often to flush you out. I haven't tried the online part yet, but suppose to be lag free with 40 people. If I try that out later I'll post back on that.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I haven't had time to play it much but after a couple hours it seems to be Call of Duty with Aliens. Does the whole game take place is destroyed towns or does it move to more interesting locations later on?

Well, you do go into the countryside and the Chimeran tunnels later on. The main thing I like about Resistance is that you can get an amazing amount of stuff going on at once. You can have maybe a dozen soldiers on your side fighting as many enemies, along with giant walkers towering over you all and shooting missiles. It really feels more like a real firefight than other games I've played. It's not a *fantastic* game or anything -- it's mostly a conventional shooter with some unique weapons. But it is a very very good example of the genre. And playing online with 32 people (up to 40) was actually pretty fun, and I don't usually like online multiplayer.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Refusing, to your own detriment, to support organizations that do evil things is egotistical and self-serving?

People generally do such things for their own personal gratification…serving their ego. They often give themselves away by…for example…writing long winded posts detailing why and how they are so enlightened.

IMO, you need to reconsider your definition of "evil". MS may be unfair or even criminal in their business practices, but they are hardly "evil". Were they to truly be "evil", then yeah, I can see refusing to support them.

[ort888]

CNBC just ran a story on the news with (supposedly) up to date holiday sales numbers.

Wii = 1.8 Million
PS3 = 750 Thousand
360 = 2 Million

The fact that the Wii has sold over twice as many units as the PS3, and is still impossible to find is crazy. Especially since reports are coming in from everywhere that PS3s are being found sitting on store shelves for days.

Is Sony really in trouble? I really didn't expect it to be this bad for them. I'm actually a little shocked.