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Scotttheking · Jun 23, 2003, 02:13 AM

This is for price discussion.

Scotttheking · Jun 23, 2003, 02:30 PM

EGAD THOSE TOWERS ARE EXPENSIVE

clarkgoble · Jun 23, 2003, 02:33 PM

[14:29] <iPalindrome> == PRICES PLZ K THX
[14:29] <iPalindrome> 3 models
[14:30] <iPalindrome> $1999, 1 x 1.6 GHz 80 GB HD, GeForce FX 5200
[14:30] <iPalindrome> 2nd model: 1.8 GHZ $2399
[14:30] <iPalindrome> Dual 2 GHz for $2999
[14:30] <iPalindrome> == availability plz

Ouch. More expensive than I'd expected. . .

cteselle · Jun 23, 2003, 02:33 PM

so how much are they... i haven't seen the prices posted at any of the sites that I'm watching....

edit: nevermind

clarkgoble · Jun 23, 2003, 02:34 PM

Here's the Dell comparison. Available only in August.

[14:31] <iPalindrome> WARNING: DELL CONFIGURATION COMING UP
[14:31] <iPalindrome> Dual 3.06 GHz Xeon, 533 MHz bus, 512 MB, 120 GB IDE
[14:31] <iPalindrome> vs. the Dual 2.0 GHz, 1 Ghz RAM, 1000 Mz bus
[14:31] <iPalindrome> Dell computer configured the same was is $4,031

SciFrog · Jun 23, 2003, 02:56 PM

Price is right, very balanced, not one system better than others, great. Now why are they shipping in August...

kupan787 · 03:29 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
EGAD THOSE TOWERS ARE EXPENSIVE

Lets see.

Current towers:

Single 1GHz - $1499
Dual 1.2GHz - $1999
Dual 1.4GHz - $2699

New Towers:

Single 1.6GHz - $1999
Single 1.8GHz - $2399
Dual 2.0GHz - $2999

Note that now all models come with a superdrive, instead of only the top end. You can remove a superdrive, and have the combo (CD-RW/DVD-ROM) and take off $200. So you could get a lowend for $1799.

So all in all, the top end isn't too bad of a price (I rememebr a year ago it was like $3200), but the bottom end is a little high. Perhaps they are doing this, as they will introduce a "inbetween" a step up from iMac and a step down from tower? In the $1500 range?

slider · Jun 23, 2003, 02:59 PM

Yep, prices are back to where they were before Apple slipped behind the speed curve.

clarkgoble · Jun 23, 2003, 03:01 PM

Actually visiting the Dell web page I guess prices aren't that bad. The 1.6 G5 is probably faster than the 2.8 P4 and they are about the same price (although the Dell coems with a monitor) So we're probably talking about the traditional $200 - $300 markup.

Still I think a lot of people hoped Apple would get a little more competitive to increase market share. But as I mentioned there is that old supply vs. demand. And I feel that initially Apple will have trouble with supply - even with the August wait. (Damn it)

Probably better price competitiveness will come in the late fall early winter.

Simon · Jun 23, 2003, 03:06 PM

Is it worth the power? Yes, definately.

Is it cheap enough to grab sales from Dell or other PCs? Probably not.

But, there's hope. Maybe in a couple of months they'll start to get cheaper and slowly trickle down to the 1499 entry price of today. Here's for hoping.

clarkgoble · Jun 23, 2003, 03:08 PM

Worst comment:

[15:05] <iPalindrome> Information:
[15:05] <iPalindrome> Announcements
[15:05] <iPalindrome> PowerMac G5 available September 1, 20003

Damn. September 1st. Our worst fears are realized!

Doncom · Jun 23, 2003, 03:50 PM

What is the education discount??? PLEASE TELL ME SOMEONE!!!

MrNo · Jun 23, 2003, 03:56 PM

Education discount is only 100$ for the cheepest model.
I thought Mac's are suppose to drop in price so us poor people would be able to get a good desktop. This is bull$hit, 2k for the cheepest machine. blah ...

Doncom · 04:22 PM

Oh . . . $1700 with edu. discount and w/out combo drive.

I was hoping to take a G5 to school with me, but it looks like I'm going to have to try for G4.

Or maybe build a comparably fast PC with a 15" LCD for $1500.

edit: Woah. Dual 1.25GHz PowerPC G4 are discounted down to $1,534.00 on the education site.

Scotttheking · Jun 23, 2003, 04:24 PM

I speced a decent machine.
dual 2ghz, 1gb ram, smallest hd, bluetooth, speakers, applecare.
It came out to aboue $4150 before tax.

Ouch

kupan787 · Jun 23, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
I speced a decent machine.
dual 2ghz, 1gb ram, smallest hd, bluetooth, speakers, applecare.
It came out to aboue $4150 before tax.

Ouch

Lets see, you bought it all at the Apple Store, not smart.

They charge you $250 for a 512 stick of PC3200 (DDR400). You can get it for as low as $86 some places (http://www.oempcworld.com/item.html?PRID=1314990)

The "speakers" are a 5.1 surround system for $299 and a toslink cable for $44.95 (packaged as $343.95) Assuming you want the surround system, you could get one for $149.95 (http://accessories.gateway.com/Acces...ductid=1829891) While not exactly the same, it is only a little less powerful (53 watts/channel vs 62 in the satellite, and the sub is the same). A toslink cable can be found for $27.95 (http://www.nextag.com/Monster_Cables...inkzmainz2-htm). So we have a good set for $177.90

When you say smallest HD, you sound upset. It is 160GB, so it isn't like it is a lowely 60GB drive. Nice size.

So now we have a grand total of: $3561.90 for a dual 2GHz, 160GB HD, 1GB DDR400 RAM, bluetooth, AppleCare, and 5.1 surround.

Now I would knock off AppleCare (I don't buy warranties), get rid of the 5.1 speakers, and throw out bluetooth (no need for me), and I would be spending $3085.

I would say pricing is good on the high end and middle. The low end should have come stock with a combo drive (so it would be $1799 inestead of $1999). Throw in an education discount (if it applies) and that is another $100 off ($150 on the high end).

SilkSpectre · Jun 23, 2003, 04:58 PM

Howze dis for a First Post?

THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IT LIVE NOW!!!!

Go to the APPLE QUICK TIME PAGE!

[size=5]LIVE NOW! G5 Presentation[/size=5]

Eriamjh · Jun 23, 2003, 05:00 PM

You can still get a 1.25GHz single OS9 booting G4 for $1300.

I like the prices. You can drop the superdrive on every model and save $200. You can also save $30 on the modem, but then you couldn't use the fax option!

Prices are good, not great. Overall, I say BRING ON THE BENCHMARKS!

tooki · Jun 23, 2003, 05:05 PM

Here's the institutional educational pricing:

1.6GHz - $1799 ($200 off)
1.8GHz - $2199 ($200 off)
2.0GHz DP - $2699 ($300 off)

I am fortunate that by some miraculous agreement with Apple, my school extends institutional pricing to individuals as well.

tooki

bstieritz · 05:41 PM

Ouch,

those G5 prices are pretty painful. But, come on . . . you pay for quality. And, the case is really starting to grow on me.

The only thing that would keep me from buying one just yet would be the single optical drive and no room for expansion. At the very least I'd expect dual drives at that price.

cheers,
brian

bstieritz · Jun 23, 2003, 05:31 PM

Hmmm . . .

graduate now and pay retail prices or go for another degree and continue getting the software/hardware educational discounts??

. . . hmmm

cheers,
brian

PS: I'm drooling at the new G5. Better start saving my pennies.

cdrgonzo20 · Jun 23, 2003, 05:49 PM

These computers are in no way directed at anybody but the creative markets where there is significant pent up demand. Apple is only capable of producing so many machines, and they are going to be sure to get a premium for the first wave as pros buy the best, newest hardware available. If you're a student looking for an educational deal, buy a dual 1.4 ghz, at this point, Apple could care less if you buy a dual 2ghz because they are in no way expecting the educational or casual markets to adopt this new architecture.

The machines are actually very well positioned in terms of price/performance against PC boxes, and should sell very well. Next January or February is when Apple will begin to push for more casual market penetration with the G5. They will likely release new notebooks and speed bumped towers coupled with lower prices. At this point it looks as though the issue with price is not due to CPU but due to a top of the line architecture. All the bells and whistles cost money, the cpu's are actually pretty cheep.

tgrundke · Jun 23, 2003, 06:43 PM

This is a very interesting discussion. looking at other comments elsewhere on the web, the same conclusions are popping up:

"Those are great specs, but damn, expensive!"

It will be very interesting to see how things pan out, sales wise, for these new models. ESPECIALLY seeing as they won't arrive until September, and we know the inevitable sales surge of early adopters will push delivery dates back into November. (partial sarcasm....partial worry about this possibility)

It does lead me to wonder, also, about the pricing of Apple's remaining product lineup, and if there might not be a stop-gap model in the works somewhere.

In conclusion: will it satisfy die-hard Mac fans? Yes. Will it reinforce Apple's status as being a high-priced player? Yes. Will it grab marketshare? Absolutely not.

ChrisB · Jun 23, 2003, 06:51 PM

Anyone remember what computers cost for schools (specifically Macs) back in 1990? $3500 for a Mac wasn't unheard of. Now, think about waht $3500 will get a school today.

Now, $3500 is a lot for a workstation, especially for some schools, but, if you do some comparison's with some comperable PC's, I think the price, even for the low end PowerMac G5, is somewhat ok. I think that $1200-1500 for a tower should still be an option, but at least schools aren't completely hosed...

The Placid Casual · Jun 23, 2003, 07:59 PM

With my Higher Edu Discount here in the UK, if I downgrade from a Superdrive to a Combo, but add on Bluetooth, the dual 2ghz Maczilla weighs in at �2000...

Seems like a very, very good deal to me.

I have no use in the world for all the power. But, for that price, how can I ever contenence �1800 for a G4 1ghz Powerbook!

I use Photoshop, Indesign, Office, X11, apps like Fink, GIMP, Abiword, and also do some distriubuted computing, general net and email... but I am buying...

This thing will last me for years and years! Tomorrow morning Apple have my order!

However I really can't see aany value in the base model... I really think Apple messed it up...

Peace,

Marc

The Placid Casual · Jun 23, 2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by tgrundke:
This is a very interesting discussion. looking at other comments elsewhere on the web, the same conclusions are popping up:

"Those are great specs, but damn, expensive!"

It will be very interesting to see how things pan out, sales wise, for these new models. ESPECIALLY seeing as they won't arrive until September, and we know the inevitable sales surge of early adopters will push delivery dates back into November. (partial sarcasm....partial worry about this possibility)

It does lead me to wonder, also, about the pricing of Apple's remaining product lineup, and if there might not be a stop-gap model in the works somewhere.

In conclusion: will it satisfy die-hard Mac fans? Yes. Will it reinforce Apple's status as being a high-priced player? Yes. Will it grab marketshare? Absolutely not.

Ther are lots of corporate workers out there who will swap their current 'high end' 64 bit workstations for the dual 2ghz in a heartbeat...

The dual 2ghz may not be aimed at increasing normal 'consumer' marketshare, but business wise I think it could be a great release that will increase Apples viability in these markets no end...

Also I think there is more than enough scope for a higher model. More PCI slots, more processors etc.... and also a much smaller cube like model. Apple realise this, that is why they have kept the current G4 machine on sale at vastly reduced prices. �1100 for a dual 1.25ghz G4...

I really think 'things are afoot'. As Steve said, this has only been the first 6 months of the year...

MikeM33 · Jun 23, 2003, 09:47 PM

I'm not incredibly surprised by the new pricing. I kinda figured that they'd go up for something this revolutionary. I was actually saving-up for a new Mac before I lost my job 2 months ago. I probably could have managed a low end 1.6 GHz G5 at 2 grand, even though it's a tad more than what I was planning to spend. Now I need that money to survive

Of course, I'm willing to bet within the next 6-12 months we'll see some price drops. They should have kept at least one model in the $1500-$1600 range.

I'm betting alot of "Must have it right now" buyers will be a little pissed-off within the next 12 months when the prices drop down to where they used to be.

MikeM

SwarmyCurve · Jun 24, 2003, 01:03 AM

Apple's presentation on the G5 is extremely fishy...

First I read that the benchmarks were spun in their favor, and now I go to the dell page to see the comparison (like Steve Jobs even said we should do) and the dell is much cheaper!

Unless I am doing something special, this is what I configured (and it would be ready a month before the G5)

@ $ 2,478
- 3.2 Ghz P4
- 1 GB ram (chosen as the online only special)
- 19" monitor
- Radeon 9800 128 MB DDR
- 200 gb 7200 rpm drive
- only a DVD drive (you may be able to get a CDRW as a special but Im not sure)
- not gigabit ethernet

... so how does he come up with over 4 thousand? Those G5's seem too expensive!

clarkgoble · Jun 24, 2003, 01:51 AM

The four thousand was for a dual Xeon, not a single 3.2 P4, wasn't it?

jcadam · Jun 24, 2003, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Ther are lots of corporate workers out there who will swap their current 'high end' 64 bit workstations for the dual 2ghz in a heartbeat...

The dual 2ghz may not be aimed at increasing normal 'consumer' marketshare, but business wise I think it could be a great release that will increase Apples viability in these markets no end...

Also I think there is more than enough scope for a higher model. More PCI slots, more processors etc.... and also a much smaller cube like model. Apple realise this, that is why they have kept the current G4 machine on sale at vastly reduced prices. �1100 for a dual 1.25ghz G4...

I really think 'things are afoot'. As Steve said, this has only been the first 6 months of the year...

yep. I'll take a 64 bit dual processor UNIX workstation for $2999 in a heartbeat. That's the thing. This is a WORKSTATION class computer. Not really a PC. Consumer grade G5 machines will come. Those that are bitching about price can wait for the G5 iMac. I'm betting it'll be released in Q1 '04 at the LATEST.

Apple obviously put massive amounts of $$ into R&D on this one (that custom ASIC that SJ specifically mentioned, the case, etc.)

Not that I can afford a new machine right now, I'll be using my MDD DP 867 (Which I just paid off the Apple loan for a few months ago) a while longer.......

I'll be waiting AT LEAST until the first speed bump, maybe even the G6 (assuming it will be the Power5-based PPC 980). Dunno.

PHoynak · Jun 24, 2003, 02:29 AM

The prices they are charging seem fair. The only problem I have with them is that I cannot afford one.....

I just got an eMac and love it. So much faster than my older iMac, I can't wait to see these new machines in person.

Powaqqatsi · Jun 24, 2003, 04:54 AM

Yeah

Summary

� Dual 2GHz PowerPC G5
� 8GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x1GB
� 2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
� ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
� Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel)
� Apple Cinema HD Display (23" flat panel) + Apple DVI to ADC Adapter
� AirPort Extreme Card
� Bluetooth Module
� 56k V.92 internal modem
� SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
� Fibre Channel PCI Card
� Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
� Mac OS X - U.S. English
� iPod - 30GB
� Logitech Z-680 THX 5.1 Speakers & Monster 2-meter Cable
� AirPort Extreme Base Station (with modem and antenna port)
� .Mac Promotional Bundle
� APP for Power Mac (w/ or w/o display) - Enrollment Kit
Subtotal $13,730.90

GK · Jun 24, 2003, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by SwarmyCurve:
Apple's presentation on the G5 is extremely fishy...

First I read that the benchmarks were spun in their favor, and now I go to the dell page to see the comparison (like Steve Jobs even said we should do) and the dell is much cheaper!

Unless I am doing something special, this is what I configured (and it would be ready a month before the G5)

@ $ 2,478
- 3.2 Ghz P4
- 1 GB ram (chosen as the online only special)
- 19" monitor
- Radeon 9800 128 MB DDR
- 200 gb 7200 rpm drive
- only a DVD drive (you may be able to get a CDRW as a special but Im not sure)
- not gigabit ethernet

... so how does he come up with over 4 thousand? Those G5's seem too expensive!

DUAL XEON, NOT P4, THERE IS NO DUAL P4 !!!

veryniceguy2002 · Jun 24, 2003, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by kupan787:
Lets see.

Current towers:

Single 1GHz - $1499
Dual 1.2GHz - $1999
Dual 1.4GHz - $2699

New Towers:

Single 1.6GHz - $1999
Single 1.8GHz - $2399
Dual 2.0GHz - $2999

It is disappointing (as a consumer) that Apple charge more for the new machine. It isn't a surprise for me, and in fact I was arguing in the other thread that higher prices is a possibility (whilst others saying it's going to be even cheaper...

)

Well, the thing I anger the most forthe G5 is the Apple Australia has not issued the Australian pricing yet. If you have a look at the Apple Store Australia, it just simply say

Coming soon! Register your Interest with us now.

The only PowerMac that is available would be 1.25GHz configurations that is OS 9 bootable...

Well, my fear is yet Apple Australia might charge even higher prices for the Mac users down under

kupan787 · Jun 24, 2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by veryniceguy2002:
It is disappointing (as a consumer) that Apple charge more for the new machine.

If your a consumer do you need a G5? That is what the eMac/iMac is for, the consumer population.

If, as a consumer, and you need a entry level tower, it is now cheaper than before! The towers are now $1299, $1699, $1999, $2399, $2999. This is really great! Very few "consumers" actually need G5s. You can get all your websurfing, emailing, and word done on a low end tower or emac/imac. If you really need the power of a G5, there is a cost (look at the cost of a comparable dual xeon rig).

On another note, when I was ordering my 1.8 over the phone, the lady kept saying dual 1.8. Everytime she mentioned the speed, she said "dual 1.8 GHz G5s". Could that mean anything, or was it just a (repeated) slip on her part?

tgrundke · Jun 24, 2003, 06:39 PM

kupan:

I do agree with you, about 'consumers' buying 'prosumer' level equipment. However, this is a challenge that Apple is facing. The personal computer market has become commoditized and is based on the Wintel rule of law. It is the Wintel philosphy that is ingrained in the heads of 95% of consumers. And that philosophy is: lots of speed for minimal price.

Apple is trying to 'coach' the market in its own terms, IE, break the market into "consumer" and "professional" markets. Unfortuntely, when your Wintel counterpart offers 2.5-3.0 ghz 800mhz FSB based systems at a lower price point than Apple's entry-level consumer product, there is a problem.

The new G5s are swift, powerful looking machines, no doubt. Unfortunately, they will do very little to expand Apple's base (initially), and this is something that we need.

I'm curious, as well, to see what kind of backlog Apple develops for the G5 (if any), and what the rollout for the rest of the Macintosh lineup based on 970 chips will be like. I highly doubt we'll see anything else until after September...which means, no doubt, there will be PowerBook and iMac speed bumps very soon.

Now that the G4 is relegated to everything else, I would assume we'll see the 1.2 and 1.4 G4s used in the iMac and PowerBook for the near future.

Originally posted by kupan787:
If your a consumer do you need a G5? That is what the eMac/iMac is for, the consumer population.

If, as a consumer, and you need a entry level tower, it is now cheaper than before! The towers are now $1299, $1699, $1999, $2399, $2999. This is really great! Very few "consumers" actually need G5s. You can get all your websurfing, emailing, and word done on a low end tower or emac/imac. If you really need the power of a G5, there is a cost (look at the cost of a comparable dual xeon rig).

On another note, when I was ordering my 1.8 over the phone, the lady kept saying dual 1.8. Everytime she mentioned the speed, she said "dual 1.8 GHz G5s". Could that mean anything, or was it just a (repeated) slip on her part?