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The Case Against Trump: Restocking swamp gators! (Page 18)
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2016, 01:56 PM
 
To be frank, you've been giving him the benefit of the doubt all year and I don't think he's lived up to them yet.
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 26, 2016, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
To be frank, you've been giving him the benefit of the doubt all year and I don't think he's lived up to them yet.
If I was really giving him the benefit of the doubt on this one, I wouldn't have chosen the term "pivot" to describe what he needs to do.

That said, there does seem to be some evidence he's a more successful businessman than he is a politician.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 26, 2016, 03:50 PM
 
Considering the circumstances that's a rather low bar.
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 26, 2016, 04:22 PM
 
That it is.
     
el chupacabra
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Oct 26, 2016, 05:38 PM
 
… .
( Last edited by el chupacabra; Jan 5, 2024 at 01:46 AM. )
     
OAW
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Oct 26, 2016, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
If that is what this author has concluded then she is wrong. However even by her own analysis, at best only 25% are in rural communities. But it all depends on where you draw the lines for suburbs & rural vs inner city etc. which can be done to suit rhetorical purposes. I looked up the definition of "suburb" just to be sure and it seems there is no concrete definition, only that it sorta contrasts inner city, yet can also include inner city. So this is a dismissed argument.
Why would she be wrong? And why do you say it "depends on where your draw the lines"? We should probably dispense with a loaded term like "inner city" which has connotations based upon the socio-economic and racial makeup of the area. Her analysis is based upon a survey conducted by the US Census Bureau which has clear definition for these things based upon geographical delineations ...

The Census Bureau's urban-rural classification is fundamentally a delineation of geographical areas, identifying both individual urban areas and the rural areas of the nation. The Census Bureau's urban areas represent densely developed territory, and encompass residential, commercial, and other non-residential urban land uses. For the 2010 Census, an urban area will comprise a densely settled core of census tracts and/or census blocks that meet minimum population density requirements, along with adjacent territory containing non-residential urban land uses as well as territory with low population density included to link outlying densely settled territory with the densely settled core. To qualify as an urban area, the territory identified according to criteria must encompass at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters.

The Census Bureau identifies two types of urban areas:

Urbanized Areas (UAs) of 50,000 or more people;
Urban Clusters (UCs) of at least 2,500 and less than 50,000 people.

"Rural" encompasses all population, housing, and territory not included within an urban area.

The specific criteria used to define urban areas for the 2010 Census were published in the Federal Register of August 24, 2011.
The Census Bureau began identifying densely populated urbanized areas of 50,000 or more population with the 1950 Census, taking into account the increased presence of densely settled suburban development in the vicinity of large cities. Outside urbanized areas, the Census Bureau continued to identify as urban any incorporated place or census designated place of at least 2,500 and less than 50,000 people.

The Census Bureau introduced the urban cluster concept for Census 2000, replacing urban places located outside urbanized areas. Urban clusters are defined based on the same criteria as urbanized areas, but represent areas containing at least 2,500 and less than 50,000 people.

"Rural" continues to be defined as any population, housing, or territory outside urban areas.
https://www.census.gov/geo/reference/ua/uafaq.html

The author's point was that contrary to popular belief most African-Americans don't live in the "densely settled core" of large cities but rather in the "outlying densely settled territory" of suburban municipalities that are geographically outside their boundaries. Or to put it more simply, most African-Americans live in #2 below ...

1. City - Inside an urbanized area and inside a principal city
2. Suburb - Inside an urbanized area and outside a principal city
3. Town - Inside an urbanized cluster and outside an urbanized area
4. Rural - Outside of an urbanized cluster and outside of an urbanized area

And regarding the whole ancient Egyptian discussion you brought up which I hope you would agree is tangential to the thread topic at best I'll simply say this. From an actual ancient Egyptian temple wall ...



And you say ....

Originally Posted by el chupacabra
The "Egyptian" on the right could easily be a white with a tan.
Which clearly falls into the "Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?" category

Now these are just a couple of the pictures I posted of a modern day man from northeast Africa ... which is where Egypt is BTW ... juxtaposed against artwork that their ancestors left behind. But the ancient Egyptians where white dudes with tans? FOH with that nonsense!!!!





OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Oct 26, 2016 at 08:13 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 27, 2016, 04:15 AM
 
Re: Liz Taylor

Wasn't Cleopatra Macedonian?
     
Chongo
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Oct 27, 2016, 07:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Re: Liz Taylor

Wasn't Cleopatra Macedonian?
In the line of Ptolemy.
45/47
     
besson3c
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Oct 27, 2016, 08:54 AM
 
So, do you guys think that the Republicans will have the audacity to block all of Clinton's supreme court nominees (including Garland), not even giving them hearings?

If this is true, this is appalling, and is exactly why I want a Democratic landslide that forces the Republican party to reinvent itself.
     
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Oct 27, 2016, 09:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
In the line of Ptolemy.
Yes, and since they practiced incestuous marriages, she was almost entirely Macedonian genetically. The Ptolemys were a weird bunch.
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OAW
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Oct 27, 2016, 10:27 AM
 
Duplicate post.
( Last edited by OAW; Oct 27, 2016 at 11:15 AM. )
     
OAW
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Oct 27, 2016, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Re: Liz Taylor

Wasn't Cleopatra Macedonian?
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
In the line of Ptolemy.
Indeed. But there were 31 Egyptian Dynasties prior to the Ptolemaic dynasty. Moreover, ancient Egypt (locally known as Kemet) like most other African societies was matrilineal (not to be confused with matriarchical) so property and inheritance was passed down through the female lineage. So even in the Ptolemaic dynasty there's a very distinct possibility that it started off with a Greek ruler taking a native Egyptian wife/consort to have any legitimacy. And the Ptolemaic dynasty lasted only 275 years with Cleopatra VII as its last active ruler. With varying degrees of intermingling with the native population taking place throughout that time frame. Now keep in mind that dark skin is a dominant (as in not recessive) trait genetically speaking. So if the Ptolemaic dynasty remained purely Greek/Macedonian then they are by no means Egyptian. Full stop. Therefore Hollywood representations of Cleopatra shouldn't be touted as what real ancient Egyptians looked like. Period.

But if as some surmise Ptolemy took a native Egyptian wife/consort then the first generation after him would have been bi-racial something along this line ...



And if such intermingling with the native population continued then by the time Cleopatra VII came along we'd be seeing something that is technically mixed race along this line.



And I say "technically" because from a genotypical perspective that would be true but from a phenotypical perspective such a person would be considered "black" in the colloquial sense of the term. You see in the US the average African-American has 25% European ancestry ... but we don't see anyone saying they aren't "black". So let's not play that game that the only true "black" people in ancient Africa were sub-Saharan with the very darkest skin tone and no admixture with any non-African people.

Now was incestous marriage practiced by the Ptolemaic dynasty? Absolutely. Particularly in the later generations. The level to which it was practiced is subject to debate. But the bottom line is that the Ptolemaic dynasty was one ruling family. They don't constitute the native population of ancient Egypt as a whole. They were always seen as outsiders and usurpers which is precisely why they were constantly fighting off rebellions within the native population.

In any event, "Black" people in Africa have always had varying skin tones depending upon the climate in the region. Naturally. And any admixture with outside populations was absorbed. The point being the records they left made it abundantly clear what they looked like. And they damned sure weren't "white people with tans."

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Oct 27, 2016 at 11:19 AM. )
     
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Oct 27, 2016, 12:23 PM
 
While I don't dispute that intermarriage is how it USUALLY works, in the case of the Ptolemaic Kingdom, it wasn't. The Macedonians were effectively a ruling class on top of Egypt, with their own private laws (=privilege). Ptolemy I Soter married several times, but only to Macedonian noblewomen. Ptolemy II and III also had all their legitimate children with noblewomen of Greek or Macedonian decent, and from that point on it is mostly sibling marriages, with one more noblewoman of Greek decent thrown in. Cleopatra VII would have looked Greek or Macedonian (and seriously inbred), even if the people around her appeared much darker.
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 27, 2016, 12:27 PM
 
I really have no idea what happened in this thread. PL you amazing
     
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Oct 27, 2016, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I imagine you'll take issue with this one too.

How White Nationalists Learned To Love Donald Trump - POLITICO Magazine
Lumping in "white nationalists" with the alt-Right is the latest dirty trick from the Left. It's similar to how they call all anti-Feminists misogynists, as if:

1. all feminists are women
2. all women are feminists
3. being an opponent if an ideology means you hate the people who are a part of it

It's nothing but a smear using the Left's name game. Are there white nationalists who attach themselves to the alt-Right? Yes. Are all white nationalists part of the alt-Right. Nope. Do they make up the majority? Not even close, they're a tiny percentage. It's similar to how a few on the Right like to call all people on the Left Marxists, only more insidious and better supported by the media.
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OAW
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Oct 27, 2016, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
While I don't dispute that intermarriage is how it USUALLY works, in the case of the Ptolemaic Kingdom, it wasn't. The Macedonians were effectively a ruling class on top of Egypt, with their own private laws (=privilege).
Hence my point that the stereotypical depictions of Cleopatra are by no means representative of the ancient Egyptian population.

OAW
     
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Oct 27, 2016, 09:57 PM
 
     
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[...deleted...]
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 28, 2016, 11:33 AM
 
When does Hillary finally succumb to her hidden illnesses in that timeline?
     
Laminar
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Oct 28, 2016, 11:42 AM
 
ANY DAY NOW. color
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 28, 2016, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
But the bottom line is that the Ptolemaic dynasty was one ruling family. They don't constitute the native population of ancient Egypt as a whole.
Hence the assertion casting someone who doesn't look like a native isn't exactly out there.

Now this...



Is out there.
     
Doc HM
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Oct 28, 2016, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Hence the assertion casting someone who doesn't look like a native isn't exactly out there.

Now this...



Is out there.
Wait. John Wayne was mixed race?
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 28, 2016, 01:42 PM
 
He was half-pilgrim.
     
OAW
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Oct 28, 2016, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Hence the assertion casting someone who doesn't look like a native isn't exactly out there.
Indeed. But I was speaking more in general about how if one were to go by Hollywood depictions one would get the very distinct impression that the ancient Egyptians were white people. When that is simply not the case. My intent wasn't to comment on just this particular film.

'Gods of Egypt' director apologizes for 'whitewashed' cast

That being said .... while on the one hand Liz Taylor being cast in that role can be an example of Hollywood "whitewashing"* run amok ... Cleopatra's ethnic background is subject to debate. So on the other hand ... it's probably not the best example to clearly express my point. My apologies for not being more precise.

OAW

* And yes ... John Wayne being cast as Ghengis Khan is another ridiculous example this.
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 28, 2016, 10:57 PM
 
Totally agree in general.

Here's "Egyptian" Kim Cattrall.

     
subego  (op)
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Oct 29, 2016, 12:34 AM
 
This thread has suddenly become 10 times more fun.

     
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Oct 29, 2016, 06:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Hence the assertion casting someone who doesn't look like a native isn't exactly out there.

Now this...



Is out there.
Not to be forgotten.


The world's most famous ethnic actor, Robbie Benson

( Last edited by Chongo; Oct 29, 2016 at 07:26 AM. )
45/47
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 29, 2016, 03:07 PM
 
Don't forget everyone's favourite (Spanish) Egyptian
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego  (op)
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Oct 29, 2016, 04:16 PM
 


He can pass, though.
     
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Oct 30, 2016, 05:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Don't forget everyone's favourite (Spanish) Egyptian
He's a space alien according to the (horrible, horrible) second movie, so all bets are off.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 30, 2016, 08:31 AM
 
We do not speak of Highlander 2.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Nov 1, 2016, 10:39 PM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OAW
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Nov 2, 2016, 12:28 PM
 
It's certainly no "accident" why things like this keep happening.

The KKK’s Newspaper’s Has Endorsed Donald Trump | Time.com



The FBI is investigating the torching of a black Mississippi church that was also vandalized with the words "Vote Trump."

"The FBI Jackson Division is aware of the situation in Greenville, and we are working with our local, state and federal law enforcement partners to determine if any civil rights crimes were committed," FBI Public Affairs Specialist Brett Carr said in a statement Wednesday.

The fire at the Hopewell Baptist Church in Greenville, Mississippi, erupted around 9:15 p.m. Tuesday and did heavy damage to the main sanctuary of the brick building, officials said.

The Trump graffiti was found in big letters on an outside wall, they said.

Federal ATF investigators and Mississippi State Fire Marshal's Office investigators were on the scene.

Asked if the church had been targeted before, a spokeswoman for Greenville Mayor Errick Simmons said no.

"Not in recent years that I know of," Kenya Collins told NBC News.
Mississippi Church Torched And Vandalized With Pro-Trump Slogan - NBC News

OAW
     
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Nov 2, 2016, 02:06 PM
 
No accident here either.
45/47
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 6, 2016, 03:32 PM
 
The thing where Obama got mad at the crowd, and Trump said he was mad at supporter?

That really ****ing bothered me. Like, a lot.

I have a feeling the general response will be "of all the things Trump has done, that's what gets you to pull out the knives?"
     
OAW
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Nov 6, 2016, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The thing where Obama got mad at the crowd, and Trump said he was mad at supporter?

That really ****ing bothered me. Like, a lot.

I have a feeling the general response will be "of all the things Trump has done, that's what gets you to pull out the knives?"
At this stage in the game Trump's blatant mendacity is par for the course. Not saying it shouldn't bother you. But surely you can't be surprised?

OAW
     
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Nov 6, 2016, 06:30 PM
 
I'm just glad you're finally bothered. It is arguably the first lie of this type he has told, where he essentially edited a video to tell a completely false version of events.

Gives you a fair idea of the sort of thing he would be likely to get up to in office doesn't it?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Nov 6, 2016, 11:13 PM
 
Obama mildly scolded the crowd, and defended the protester's free speech. For anyone to characterize that as berating the protester, that's insane compared to Trump inciting the crowd to violence toward his protesters.

I just...
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 7, 2016, 12:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
At this stage in the game Trump's blatant mendacity is par for the course. Not saying it shouldn't bother you. But surely you can't be surprised?

OAW
Adjudication of Trump's mendacity is more complex than the man himself. He uses hyperbole without restraint, and has a gift for semantic imprecision which borders on the supernatural. He cares little for details, and operates with a cartoon view of how lying is the cost of doing business in politics.

This is outside the profile.

Perhaps I cut people more slack than they deserve. The reason I err in that direction is the hope the person is capable of some minimum baseline of empathy. It's a baseline I generally find absent only in people who have suffered brain damage.

This manages not to reach the baseline.

Whether real or pretend, it's a failure of empathy on such a simple level I actually am kind of surprised.
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 7, 2016, 02:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Obama mildly scolded the crowd, and defended the protester's free speech. For anyone to characterize that as berating the protester, that's insane compared to Trump inciting the crowd to violence toward his protesters.

I just...
Don't forget his inciting his crowds against present media. It got real bad: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...at-trump-rally
     
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Nov 7, 2016, 05:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Perhaps I cut people more slack than they deserve. The reason I err in that direction is the hope the person is capable of some minimum baseline of empathy.
Do you think Trump has shown empathy in his campaign?!? At this stage we have seen more than enough of Trump to make that determination. So why do you cut Trump any slack at this stage?
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This manages not to reach the baseline.
Wow. Then I'd really not want to know what Trump has to do to cross it.
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subego  (op)
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Nov 7, 2016, 01:33 PM
 
He's shown enough empathy for it to be reasonable to think he meets the baseline. Like, he seems to care about his children (cue joke about how he wants to plow his daughter... hurr hurr).

This thing here is just a total disconnect. It's like getting knifed by a homeless person for giving them a quarter... after the homeless person took a few minutes to make sure it was premeditated as possible.

Honestly, it's so out there, I'm considering the possibility Trump has never seen the clip of Obama, and is relying on others describing it to him.
     
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Nov 8, 2016, 03:13 PM
 
In case anyone forgot who we are dealing with here ....

Trump has made almost 500 false claims in last 7 weeks: report | TheHill

OAW
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 8, 2016, 04:02 PM
 
Didn't read the list but he lies about the most meaningless shit, too.
     
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Nov 9, 2016, 03:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Didn't read the list but he lies about the most meaningless shit, too.
While Hillary lies about the most important shit, which is why she lost.
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Nov 9, 2016, 10:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
While Hillary lies about the most important shit, which is why she lost.

That's not why she lost. She lost because she lost the rust belt, full of displaced manufacturing jobs and angry people that want their jobs back.
     
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Nov 9, 2016, 10:48 AM
 
So, you don't get the corruption and incompetence? How about her lack of accomplishments? How about her bad judgement?
     
subego  (op)
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Nov 9, 2016, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
angry people that want their jobs back.
Also known as "deplorables".
     
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Nov 9, 2016, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That's not why she lost. She lost because she lost the rust belt, full of displaced manufacturing jobs and angry people that want their jobs back.
This. Just this. Everything else is beside the point. Sure Florida would have been enough to flip it even if Michigan does drop for Trump eventually (NH and MN seem to be going blue), but the main path was pretty clearly to keep the traditionally Democratic states and add Virginia and Colorado to get to 270 - and if that was the idea, she made remarkably few proposals to keep the rust belt.
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Nov 9, 2016, 12:20 PM
 
The rust belt bought the snake oil, that Trump would get their jobs back, even as they bought Trump's "Make America Great Again" hats made in China. There's a logic disconnect there.
     
 
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