[Y3a]

OK, it's TOO HOT TO GO OUTSIDE, so you sit around and listen to music. for the AUDIOPHILES out there, what is your favorite/best components?

My List:

SPEAKERS
2 pair of KEF 104aB reference monitors (1 stacked on the other which is on the floor)
OR KEF 105's
Monster cables

POWER AMP
Crown PSA-2 (200+ Watts RMS per side)
OR 2 Mono DB Systems Power amps (140 RMS)

PRE-AMP
DB Systems Pre-amp

TURNTABLE et al
FONS CQ-30 3 speed belt drive turntable
Shure SME type 2 tonearm with a type 3 fluid damper
Grace F9e Super phono cart

TUNER
Marantz 10b tuner

I don't consider any CD player as audiophile due the phase problems and that "Aliasing Circuit"

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by Y3a

Monster cables

sucker!

I don't consider any CD player as audiophile due the phase problems and that "Aliasing Circuit"

Audiophiles are generally full of crap anyway, so their opinions mean precisely jack to me.

I listen to MUSIC, not EQUIPMENT.

[Y3a]

With yer ears full of wax. Sorry you can't tell the difference. I'll bet you use 'tone controls' too! LOL

[analogika]

Were you actually asking a question, or is this a penis thread?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Y3a

I don't consider any CD player as audiophile due the phase problems and that "Aliasing Circuit"

You don't consider any CD player a high-fi audio enthusiast due the phase problems and that "Aliasing Circuit"?

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Y3a

With yer ears full of wax. Sorry you can't tell the difference. I'll bet you use 'tone controls' too! LOL

How many blind tests have you done? Odds are you can't tell the difference between a 256kbps MP3 and vinyl on $20,000 equipment.

[jasonsRX7]

I'm glad that I can enjoy music without having to own a personal studio. It must suck to be that anal.

[CreepingDeth]

I'm sort of an audio geek. I mean, within my limits. I have no money and my V-6's are broken, so I have to listen through a G4 iMac's internal speaker. Yuck. But it makes do.

Actually, I'm looking for a good turntable. I've come into possession of a dozen or so albums (Cream, Zeppelin, Allman, etc.), and I would actually like to play em. Anyone got a good one that isn't a billion dollars?

[Y3a]

It's more than "Blind tests" or other gimmicks. while one track might sound "OK" others may not. it's also the source material. The reactance of one loudspeaker may make one power amp sound harsh, while a different one may sound smooth and accurate. getting the right combo of items together so all the parts contribute to the final sonic illusion is what it's all about. Most loudspeakers have high crossover distortion, peaky response, and poor quality components. The time aligned designs (like KEF 104aB's) allow you to hear depth as well if it is there. Digital aliasing smears the image, but the dynamic range gives the average listener the impression of excellent 'quality' sound. Brass instruments and cymbals are difficult for digital systems to reproduce properly due to the interaction of the aliasing circuitry with the wave forms.

I agree that too many audio sales folk pawn themselves off as Audiophiles but usually when you start talking technology and you hear excessive buzzwords instead of explainations thats a clue that they don't know what they are talking about. Audiophiles, sound engineers and recording engineers do similar jobs but it DOES boil down to how WELL you can hear, and how well you recognize problems.

Source material is the biggest variation in the audio chain, as it has been created at a studio, where the monitors shortcomings may be 'fixed' in the mix, so it sounds horrid on something more accurate.

Converting from analog to digital and back DOES LOOSE SOMETHING. you can add boxes that add 2nd order harmonic distortion but WHY??

If you system sounds really good with all types of music, and doesn't make any particular type sound harsh, muddy, or thin, you most likely have good start.

Speaker placement is the most important part of the set-up, right behind speaker CHOICE.

JBL 4311's are great in small studios and radio & TV stations, but they have a bass problem common to bass reflex speakers. Adding a sub-woofer is tricky because the phase of the crossover can cause cancellation around the crossover point.

Turntables and phono carts are another story. Stylus shape, tracking force and type of cart makes a big difference. Moving coils vs moving magnet vs crystal types (including Micro Acoustics old designs) make a different inductance/reactance input to the phono input of the preamp or pre-preamp.

I hope this clears up the questions. if you aren't someone who listens to music on good equipment you don't need to post to this topic.

Anybody still have any unopened
Sheffield Labs Disks??
M & K pipe organ records?
DBX encoded vinyl disks??

[Link]

silly audiophiles.

Enjoy your $3500 studio monitors. I'll just buy some $250 klipschs and not know the damn difference.

edit: buzzwords added

[CreepingDeth]

[RAILhead]

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by Y3a

With yer ears full of wax. Sorry you can't tell the difference. I'll bet you use 'tone controls' too! LOL

Nope, haven't used an EQ of any sort at home since I got a decent amp and speakers. My amp has bass and treble controls only, and they've never strayed beyond neutral except when I tested to see that they actually worked.

I'm not sorry I can't tell the difference, it means I have more money to spend on albums for my listening pleasure, rather than blowing it all on expensive equipment that does nothing for the end sound.

[Shaddim]

Not getting in on this one, last discussion on this topic turned ugly.

"You can't tell the difference!"
"Yes, I can."
"Prove it."
"I don't have to prove jack to you. I buy what I want and like."
"A$$hole."
"Putz."

etc... etc...

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by ReggieX

Nope, haven't used an EQ of any sort at home since I got a decent amp and speakers. My amp has bass and treble controls only, and they've never strayed beyond neutral except when I tested to see that they actually worked.

I'm not sorry I can't tell the difference, it means I have more money to spend on albums for my listening pleasure, rather than blowing it all on expensive equipment that does nothing for the end sound.

Dude!

You heard the man!:

if you aren't someone who listens to music on good equipment you don't need to post to this topic.

My experience with Paradigms and B&Ws mean nothing...I am pretty sure that only Y3a is allowed to post in this thread now, anyway.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Y3a

I don't consider any CD player as audiophile due the phase problems and that "Aliasing Circuit"

Audiophiles are tiresome. Try enjoying your music for a change instead of spendig fortunes to create sound details that aren't there.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Audiophiles are tiresome. Try enjoying your music for a change instead of spendig fortunes to create sound details that aren't there.

[Goldfinger]

Photobucket bandwidth exceeded

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Y3a

if you aren't someone who listens to music on good equipment you don't need to post to this topic.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Audiophiles are tiresome. Try enjoying your music for a change instead of spendig fortunes to create sound details that aren't there.

Ah, but they are there. Audiophiles are people in the know.

[storer]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

Audiophiles are tiresome. Try enjoying your music for a change instead of spendig fortunes to create sound details that aren't there.

Agreed. I can buy a cheap $400 mini hi-fi with limited bass and still enjoy my music. Like someone else said: I listen to music, not equipment.

[mojo2]

This is an area where ignorance truly is bliss. When I was fresh out of basic training and was attending an Army mos training school I bought a cheap little stero which I was happy with UNTIL I heard my friend's stereo. I was immediately dissatisfied with my cheap old little stereo.

Every time I listened to a better stereo it made me question whether I would/could/should afford a newer set-up.

After a certain point you just live with what you've got and appreciate it.

There are soooo many things in life that you could replace with something better that before long you realize you are on an endless quest.

The sooner you reach that 'good enough' point, the better.

[PacHead]

Many "Audiophiles" are full of crap and wouldn't know decent sound if it was injected directly into their brain. I knew this one "audiophile" person, who was an arrogant loudmouthed moron and totally ignorant of anything concerning sound. It turns out he had his speakers connected out of phase for years.


If "Audiophiles" have such great gear, why do many of them use crappy RCA connectors on their gear, which are unbalanced ? Talk about amateurish.


$4,000 speakers don't impress me, and just because somebody has them does not make that person an authority on anything. I'm used to listening on $50,000 speakers, big deal.

No tone controls ? Spoken like a true "audiophile" ignoramus. If "audiophiles" knew anything about the recording process, then they would know that not all records or cds are mastered and/or mixed correctly, and what is wrong with correcting any mistakes when playing back ? If you have decent ears, then use them.

Unless somebody has totally renovated their listening space and made the whole room acoustically correct, there will be various standing waves, and certain frequencies will be more prominent than others when playing back material, something which was not intended when the original was recorded.

I'm not even going to get into the story about some "audiophile" idiot who wore some paper cups around their ears, in order to better direct the sound.


"Audiophiles"

[zigzag]

Originally Posted by Y3a

It's more than "Blind tests" or other gimmicks. while one track might sound "OK" others may not. it's also the source material. The reactance of one loudspeaker may make one power amp sound harsh, while a different one may sound smooth and accurate. getting the right combo of items together so all the parts contribute to the final sonic illusion is what it's all about. Most loudspeakers have high crossover distortion, peaky response, and poor quality components. The time aligned designs (like KEF 104aB's) allow you to hear depth as well if it is there. Digital aliasing smears the image, but the dynamic range gives the average listener the impression of excellent 'quality' sound. Brass instruments and cymbals are difficult for digital systems to reproduce properly due to the interaction of the aliasing circuitry with the wave forms.

I agree that too many audio sales folk pawn themselves off as Audiophiles but usually when you start talking technology and you hear excessive buzzwords instead of explainations thats a clue that they don't know what they are talking about . . .

Almost everything in your post sounds like an audio sales person passing themselves off as an audiophile . . . you've used just about every audiophile cliche in the book. Do you even know what "digital aliasing" is without looking it up, much less "the interaction of the aliasing circuitry with the wave forms"?

How exactly is blind testing a "gimmick"?

[suvsr4terrorists]

I have a pair of stanton str8-80s with the factory DJ Craze needles... a numark mixer, not sure what model, and I use a generic RCA brand cable to hook them up to my pioneer home theater in a box. It sounds good.

[Timo]

In architecture school I remember one special kind of dumbass -- characterized by a particular brand of preening know-it-all fakeness. For these truely most annoying folk we saved the moniker, "if he weren't here he'd be a high-end stereo salesman."

[Link]

*ties a pair of COBY headphones to Y3a's head, plugs in a generic CD player he got at walmart with the power cord permanently attached (and the CD player sealed closed), playing a censored version of eminem's rap on repeat*

*hits the play button*

Eat that censored sh#$@^* yo.

[budster101]

I'm not an expert but I would think these speakers would satisfy even the most discrete of audiophiles based on the number of positive reviews. If I were researching speakers for reference, this would definately make my list of speakers to look closer at.

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/speak...6_1594crx.aspx




Spend your money on what matters, not overpriced items that seemingly represent music better. There are so many more important things you can blow your money on...

$500 speakers instead of $5,000 or more.

[storer]

Originally Posted by mojo2

After a certain point you just live with what you've got and appreciate it.

There are soooo many things in life that you could replace with something better that before long you realize you are on an endless quest.

The sooner you reach that 'good enough' point, the better.

Agreed. I'm hoping i'm there now.

[Dr. Awesome]

Guys, I think we scared him away.

There goes the fun for the night

[budster101]

Originally Posted by Y3a

It's more than "Blind tests" or other gimmicks. while one track might sound "OK" others may not. it's also the source material. The reactance of one loudspeaker may make one power amp sound harsh, while a different one may sound smooth and accurate. getting the right combo of items together so all the parts contribute to the final sonic illusion is what it's all about. Most loudspeakers have high crossover distortion, peaky response, and poor quality components. The time aligned designs (like KEF 104aB's) allow you to hear depth as well if it is there. Digital aliasing smears the image, but the dynamic range gives the average listener the impression of excellent 'quality' sound. Brass instruments and cymbals are difficult for digital systems to reproduce properly due to the interaction of the aliasing circuitry with the wave forms.

I agree that too many audio sales folk pawn themselves off as Audiophiles but usually when you start talking technology and you hear excessive buzzwords instead of explainations thats a clue that they don't know what they are talking about. Audiophiles, sound engineers and recording engineers do similar jobs but it DOES boil down to how WELL you can hear, and how well you recognize problems.

Source material is the biggest variation in the audio chain, as it has been created at a studio, where the monitors shortcomings may be 'fixed' in the mix, so it sounds horrid on something more accurate.

Converting from analog to digital and back DOES LOOSE SOMETHING. you can add boxes that add 2nd order harmonic distortion but WHY??

If you system sounds really good with all types of music, and doesn't make any particular type sound harsh, muddy, or thin, you most likely have good start.

Speaker placement is the most important part of the set-up, right behind speaker CHOICE.

JBL 4311's are great in small studios and radio & TV stations, but they have a bass problem common to bass reflex speakers. Adding a sub-woofer is tricky because the phase of the crossover can cause cancellation around the crossover point.

Turntables and phono carts are another story. Stylus shape, tracking force and type of cart makes a big difference. Moving coils vs moving magnet vs crystal types (including Micro Acoustics old designs) make a different inductance/reactance input to the phono input of the preamp or pre-preamp.

I hope this clears up the questions. if you aren't someone who listens to music on good equipment you don't need to post to this topic.

Anybody still have any unopened
Sheffield Labs Disks??
M & K pipe organ records?
DBX encoded vinyl disks??

I have a bridge to sell this mope.

[Briareus]

There's too many variables inherent in an individual's perception of sound for this to be anything but an exercise in personal aesthetics.

So, yeah, I'm leaning towards the "penis thread" conclusion

[Dr. Awesome]

Just for the record... I can tell a noticeable difference between analog out and optical out on my PowerMac.

It's nothing I would have figured out if it weren't for this thread, since this very moment out of curiosity I listened to analog and digital streams back-to-back.

Using a relatively cheap ($145) Creative DDTS-100 digital decoder, I hooked my appropriately cheap Creative T5400 speakers in a 2.1-only setup to the decoder, and the decoder to the PM via an optical cable. Also I opened Audio Midi setup and set the output to Digital Out with 2ch-24bit and 48000Hz. I then imported the new NIN With Teeth album using Apple Lossless Encoder, and played the first song on repeat.

Well, I concluded that my decoder was doing its job. Using an analog source, the speakers sounded a little canny, at least more so than using the digital stream. You could say the digital stream had more dynamic range. I'm sure of this because I switched between them almost instantly.

It's known that better components are much more sensitive to the quality of the source, so I was surprised when I could actually hear a difference using my cheap setup. Imagine using a professional audio card with top-quality monitors and gold-plated cables.

Would I spend a huge assload of money to hear ^that^ difference? No, it's not worth the money. I'd rather have a couple years' supply of albums to actually listen to.

I think that's the difference between most people and Y3A.


You're Welcome.

EDIT: Following Link's lead, I also buzzed select words/phrases.

[Y3a]

The KEF 104aB monitors I mentioned cost $795 a pair in 1978. I use 2 pair. The Power amp is a recently tweeked Crown PSA-2 pro power amp from the early 80's. I paid a total of 600 bucks for it. The preamp is a super low distortion design from DB Systems, and has no tone controls. I've owned it since the 1970's. it was tweeked by the designer in 1994. I paid $580 for it new.

So the "ASSumption" from some on cost is incorrect. Typical of know-it-alls.

Including Turntable, It still cost less than $4K. The equipment has not diminished in quality over the time I've owned it because I don't blast it. The preamp is built with hand picked 1 percent parts. Crown overbuilds their equipment. KEF drivers are designed to last 50+ years if not overdriven. I wouldn't spend over $750 for any ONE speaker. I have spent over $1K on a Moving coil Phono cart. Still like the sound of the Grace better overall.

I also stated that PLACEMENT of loudspeakers is very important, which some folks seemed to gloss over while reading my long post.

BTW- The B&W speaker folks do a real nice job. Same for Spender, I.M. Fried etc.

Klipsch requires a different(aftermarket) crossover to make them truely wide range. Paul Klipsch used to roll of the bass response too high.

[d.fine]

I think a good setup is one that the person likes listening to. There's no one system that is the best, because everyone likes a different sound.

I'm gonna stick with my current setup with which I'm pretty happy. It's a Rotel Pre/Power Amp setup, with Balanced XLR Interconnects, on B&W DM 604's. I do have to admit I heard a HUGE difference between RCA and XLR connections, and chose for the later, because I personally think it sounds better, specially in the lower frquencies. Just me

[RAILhead]

[OB1]

wow, that guy got loads of ****. and for being a geek! I wonder how many people here have G5/Cinema Display setups they don't really need...

Y3a, why do you stack your speakers on top of each other? Is it some sort of 'mono is better' thing?

- not that I actually care, before all you cool computer guys dive in, I'm just curious.

[dav]

i have vienna acoustics speakers paired with a rotel preamp and amp. i'm happy with this setup. disclaimer: i'll take cds over lps, i use home depot 12gauge wire, radio shack interconnects.

if i remember correctly, macinstein has some nice audio equipment.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by dav

if i remember correctly, macinstein has some nice audio equipment.

Yeah, but talking about it is like blood in the water to these sharks. They've got all their "facts" and believe what they want to believe.

It's always easy to pan what you can't have.

[Y3a]

I stack them so the bottom one produces bass better because it couples with the floor while the top one is up far enough to be closer to "on axis" for the mmid and top end. I keep the stacks about 14 feet apart for better seperation, and pointing in about 10 degrees. I have them set up as a 4 ohm load so the Crown PSA-2 puts out over 400 watts RMS per side for lots of headroom. The KEF 104aB's are not very efficient but the passive radiators allow the speaker to get down to 11 Hz. The power amp rolls off at about 2Hz.

What do you vinyl guys like as tomearms? SME, Grace, Dynavector etc?

[budster101]

shure.

[suvsr4terrorists]

My tone arms are straight, not S curved, for superior tracking and skip free sound. As for the brand, I don't think it matters much. It's just a piece of metal. The needle is more important, and mine are either dirty or getting worn out. Not sure what I'll replace them with, probably some SHURE brand cartridges.

[ReggieX]

A plain old Technics will do you fine for a turntable, no need to get DJ models unless you're planning on using them for that reason. Just clean your records and needle regularly too.

[zigzag]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

They've got all their "facts" and believe what they want to believe.

Which describes many audiophiles to a T, Y3a's buzzword-laden foray into audio engineering concepts that he probably doesn't understand being a perfect example.

It's always easy to pan what you can't have.

Perhaps for some; others of us have and admire good equipment but reject fraud and fetishism. In the end, however, whatever suits a person is what they should have.

[Y3a]

Sorry Zigzag.

I DO understand the terms. I got my AES certification in 1977. I used to MAKE tonearms and modify headshells for folks in the DC area. I was the turntable technician for "Needle in a Haystack" and later Meyer-EMCO, both reputable audio dealers. I also worked for Audio Perceptions where I set up the on air studios for a few radio stations, and a few DJ booths in the Disco era.

Do you actually have anything constructive to offer, or do we just have to suffer your 'tude'??

[badidea]

Originally Posted by zigzag

..but reject fraud and fetishism.

Oh the irony! Apple, MacNN, HELLOOOOO!!!!



Oh, and btw, my speakers did cost a lot more than Y3a's (LINN Keilidh if anyone is interested - sweeeeet)! Am I the ass of this thread now???

[analogika]

Originally Posted by zigzag

Which describes many audiophiles to a T, Y3a's buzzword-laden foray into audio engineering concepts that he probably doesn't understand being a perfect example.

Perhaps for some; others of us have and admire good equipment but reject fraud and fetishism.

That is a real problem with being into/enjoying high-end audio:

YES, there is an awful lot of stuff that really does make an appreciable difference in sound, and
YES, there is an awful lot of overpriced and completely superfluous snake-oil.

Add to that the fact that even when people are right in their arguments on the subject, they are often right for the wrong reasons.


Btw, those arguing that this stuff makes no difference are kind of ignoring that a lot of those commercial CDs are mastered using $20,000-speaker systems in studios with completely flattened audio response curves from 20 to 40,000 Hertz for a reason. The listening situation at home is different, of course, but anyone can hear the difference between a well-produced recording and a poor one on most systems. The difference is often just in the equipment used during recording/mixing/mastering. Following that, just imagine what a difference having a decent playback system at home is.

I was instantly convinced when I heard a couple of records on a friend's system that completely blew me away. It really can change one's entire perception of a lot of music, simply 'cuz you can actually hear clearly everything that's going on. Did you know that the Eagles' "Hotel California" is really driven by an extremely funky bassline and a reggae guitar? Never noticed?

I know I hadn't, and I thought I knew the song by heart, down to the last guitar lick.

Incidentally, there's an extra two or three acoustics on the track that you don't really notice otherwise, either.

-ch.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by badidea

Oh the irony! Apple, MacNN, HELLOOOOO!!!!



Oh, and btw, my speakers did cost a lot more than Y3a's (LINN Keilidh if anyone is interested - sweeeeet)! Am I the ass of this thread now???

Holy ****, dude, and to think we still haven't met up yet - I've wanted the Keilidh for years. I had the Nexus, but sold them and replaced them with trash speakers I found in the attic in my old place, putting the money into the Circus kit for the LP12 instead - what a night-and-day difference, despite the utter crap speakers replacing "reference" speakers.

Now running on last-revision Index boxen/Ku-Stone stands.

[analogika]

Oops.

</internet penis>

[badidea]

Originally Posted by analogika

Did you know that the Eagles' "Hotel California" is really driven by an extremely funky bassline and a reggae guitar? Never noticed?

I'm not sure if I ever noticed but I DO clearly remember this Thai guide I was hiking with through a jungle in the North of Thailand!!! He was singing this song the whole day long with his weird thai english - I almost killed him!!!!!