[D'Espice]

I was thinking about upgrading my Pismo with a new hard drive to replace my current 40GB/4.200rpm one. Not that I’m running out of space but performance-wise, it ain’t the best thing out there anymore. Since 7.200rpm drives have become really affordable over the past few months, I’m considering putting in a 100GB/7.200rpm drive which I can get for roughly 100€ (US $130).

There are a few things that I am still not quite sure about though. I’ll be spending next year abroad, doing my Master’s degree at Wayne State, and I’ll be using that Pismo as my main and only computer for an entire year. During that year, I’ll probably spend most of my time in the library and won’t have any time for any kind of repairs whatsoever. Hence, here’s what I’m worried about:

How loud are these 7.200rpm drives? My current one is completely inaudible. I’m not worried about the scratchy noise it makes when the heads are moving, I’m worried about the constant noise a hard drive makes when rotating. So, in one word: Will it be audible or not?
Second question is about the temperature. I know that the faster these drives get, the hotter they tend to get. Will there be any problems regarding temperature of said hard drive in my Pismo? Does anyone already have experience with 7.200rpm drives in Pismos/Lombards/Wallstreets running at least 12h a day or even more? Does it cause the fan to run more frequently than with a slower, cooler hard drive?
And third – is it worth it? Will I even notice an improvement in performance? As I’ve said, 40GB is still more than I actually need. Most of my work is writing, hence I’ll be spending a lot of time in Mellel/Word. I know that these apps will start faster, that swapping will be faster (it’s a 400MHz Pismo with a gig of ram running OS X 10.4 (Dashboard disabled) and OS 9.2.2), etc. pp. But will I notice the difference?

[OreoCookie]

They aren't really louder than 5400 rpm drives and I don't think they run a lot hotter either, but I highly, highly doubt you'll feel a difference, especially on that machine.

[rjt1000]

Hi D'Espice,
I have a Pismo (G3 500 mhz with 768mb RAM and the original 20gb 4200 rpm drive) which I am truly fond of and use daily as my surfing/ email machine. But it is not my only computer (I also have a 12 inch G4 PowerBook) and I dont rely on the Pismo for mission critical work. Although you would probably see some modest performance boost by going to a 7200 rpm drive, I would advise you to hang on to the $130 and try to save up for a more modern computer. As a grad student you will be spending big bucks on your education and you just can't afford to have your only computer break down on you at a critical juncture (like the week before your research papers are due). Your Pismo is at least 5 years old and sh*t happens with old computers. As a student you can get a nice discount on a MacBook, and the $130 saved on the hard drive upgrade could jump start your savings for it. And you'll be surprised how far your Euros go here in the USA. Good luck.

[D'Espice]

Thanks for the advice. However, I'm not even considering getting a MacBook for three reasons: crappy glossy screen (if I want a f...... mirror I'll go to the bathroom), crappy keyboard (imo) and reliability. Also, the Pismo is not my only computer by far - it'll be my only one for that year but if worst comes to worst, I can have my girlfriend ship me one of my other laptops (two FSC Lifebooks and a Wallstreet)

So MacBook is never an option, MBP is too expensive and all these modern notebooks have one substantial handicap: Only one battery. My current FSC Lifebook is a 12" Pentium III machine with two batteries, giving me up to seven hours of battery life, that is with brightness turned all the way up and wireless (the only reason why I'm not taking that Lifebook with me, even though it might seem as the smarter choice is that it's maxed out at 256MB of memory). A MacBook will max out at three hours, and that's just not enough. Hence the Pismo with two batteries, giving me up to ten hours of battery goodness. And it's not like I'm not tech-savvy, I can fix computers by myself. I probably won't have too much time to take care of stuff like that but in theory I could.
The good thing about the Pismo is that all its faults are well documented. So if anything breaks down I will know more or less what to do to fix it. With a new laptop you never know what might happen

To be honest, I just don't think a MacBook will do any good. It's smaller and lighter than the Pismo and it's definitely faster. But I keep reading all these posts about problems, about failures, about batteries dying after only a few weeks, etc. That'd be even worse if I had a new laptop and had to get it replaced after a few weeks because of xyz whatever. iBook G4 would be an option, I even thought of getting a 12" or 15" PowerBook G4. But then again - one battery

It's not easy being me

[rjt1000]

I agree a G4 iBook or G4 PowerBook would be reasonable options, especially if you can get one at a nice price. I have used both and they are good machines. If you carry an extra battery in your bag you can just swap them when the first runs down--not much of an inconvenience. Wouldnt be a bad idea to bring the Pismo to the states as well. That way you'd have a backup, and I'm sure you'd find uses for it as a second machine. New products coming out today, so maybe you will have other options as well.

[D'Espice]

The thing is: Nothing is as reliable as the Pismo. Neither the iBook G4 nor the PowerBook G4 are even closely as reliable as the Pismo is. Also, they're still quite expensive and I don't really feel like wasting a lot of money on a new used iBook/PowerBook if I can spice up my already existing Pismo for much less than that.
I'm definitely gonna stick with the Pismo. Performance-wise it's fine, given that I spent most of my workday doing simple word processing (also sometimes presentations) and the Pismo is more than enough for my needs. Honestly, I don't see any advantages in getting a new MacBook/Pro or any kind of iBook/PowerBook, yet several disadvantages

Still the question stands. Has anyone ever put a 7.200rpm drive into a Pismo? I don't think that I'll be the first and only one who's ever done that...

[tigas]

When I upgraded my original G3/400 to a 5400rpm disk, I got a little more performance in OS9, but a lot better performance in OSX, which is a lot more disk heavy. My main reason for upgrading was the noise, I couldn't stand the ball bearing noise of the Apple hard disk. However, the hard disk is always the slowest thing on a computer, as long as the CPU can process the data flow.

Then I got a G4/550, but to really get it's worth I had to get 1GB of RAM. I really don't think you'll get the best of a 7200rpm disk without a G4 upgrade. Get a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 120GB (5 year warranty) and you'll get almost as fast a disk as a 7200, but with less noise, more battery time and 20GB more diskspace than the 100GB Momentus 7200.1. I even think it's cheaper, too.

[topcat]

Hi. I installed a 120 GB 7200 RPM drive in my Pismo. I think it was a Seagate drive, but its been a while and I don't have the machine handy now, so I can't check. I did the upgrade mainly because my old drive was full. Thought the new drive was great, but did not notice an increase in speed. Probably if you ran some formal speed tests, yiou could show it was faster, but you just don't notice that in most kinds of everyday use. The drive was very quiet and the fan almost never kicked on. When it did, it was mostly related to heavy CPU load.

If you don't need more disk space (are you sure about that?), I'd max out the RAM, if you haven't done so already. When I upgraded from 256 MB to 768, there was a significant improvement in performance.

Coincidentlly, I am at Wayne State. Since you are coming here, you should be aware there is a Apple-certified repair shop on campus, and I recommend them. I once dropped my Pismo on a concrete sidewalk and it would not boot. Took it in and the tech had running a day later - no charge! He said he suspected somethiing might be loose, so he disassembled it and reassembled it, and worked. Also goes to show the Pismos are very durable. I still have mine, but mostly just use it at home for internet radio and as a print server.

[D'Espice]

I have already maxed out the ram (1.024MB) and am definitely not planning to ever put in a G4 CPU in there - they're simply too expensive. If I could get one real cheap (meaning less than 50 bucks) then maybe, but I don't see that happening

topcat: Was your old drive the Apple stock 4.200rpm drive or a third party 5.400rpm drive? And yes, I'm very positive that I don't need the extra 20GB - currently, my 40GB drive is more than enough. I keep all my music on my iPod anyway, hence there's not much to be saved on my Powerbook - a few pictures, lots and lots of documents and PDFs. As we speak 23GB of free space.
Oh, and thanks a bunch for the information about the Apple-certified repair shop on campus. I'll get back to you in case I'll need it (hopefully not). Is there an Apple on Campus store as well?

[darkmatter]

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

How loud are these 7.200rpm drives?

It won't be audible. My experiences are the following ones:

Have a Hitachi 7k60 for 3.5 years on my Pismo, still hard to hear moving heads and HD rotation. Vibration can be felt, this caused by the fast rotations of the HD, but the performance improvement is worth and I'm used to this vibration. (Better than a sharp edged and warm MBP). My Pismo has being power on more than 8 hours a day since then, so, the 7k60 has good quality.

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

Does it cause the fan to run more frequently than with a slower, cooler hard drive?

I suppose that fan does not get switch on because of a faster rotational speed HD, the frequency that gets on is not dependent on the HD rotational speed too. Indeed the fan switches on if you load the CPU with heavy calculations. The fan mainly used to cool down the processor temperature.

Temperature: not a great deal, in my case the computer stays cool cold as always has being on normal use, G3@500 Mhz.

Battery life: I didn't notice a reduction. Maybe electronic components inside the new HDs are less power hungry that components inside the 4200 RPM HD despite faster rotational speed.

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

And third – is it worth it?

Yes, it is worth!

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

Will I even notice an improvement in performance?

Yes you will notice the difference

I write and code a lot too, if you administrate well your information you will never fill the 100 GB. I have 60GB and still 20GB free.Now to day MB(P) customers get their -mobile- equipment with as much 160 GB HD, I wonder how they can fill and use this huge amount of information on the go, watching movies, tv shows, eating Apple Popcorn and hearing music may be the answer, the new Apple "Thinking" philosophy...

Best Regards

[topcat]

Topcat here again. I've checked the replacement drive in the Pismo - it's a 60 GB Hitachi Travelstar, 7200 RPM. It replaced the original Apple-issued 4200 RPM drive. (The 120 GB Seagate I bought later, for a different machine.) About the Apple Store - sorry, there's none close by, the nearest is about 25 miles (40 km).

[rach]

I had a 80GB 5400.3 in my iBook quite recently but i was not happy about the noise so i swapped it for a Western Digital 5400RPM WD1000VE HD. The WD was described as the most quiet HD on the market it is a pretty quiet HD i would say but i would not say that it was the most quiet HD ever.

The 5400.3 i didn't find was that noisy but i found it a bit off putting be able to hear it at times.
That HD has a bel rating of 2.4 idle and 2.9 seeking and they say that the human threshold for hearing is 2.6.

I like my HD's to be pretty much quiet. The 4200 RPM HD that was in my iBook was so quiet i could not hear it at all. That is one good thing about those drives.
Fuji do make some very silent drives though. I have had some pretty quiet 5400RPM HD's but the 5400.3 in my iBook in my opinion made a little bit more noise than the others that i have used before. If you are not sensitive to noise it may not be an issue for the OP at all if they get this HD.
I have had both a 7200RPM and a 5400 longitudinal drive in basically the same laptop before and i found that the 5400 drive ran cooler and was less noisy overall as well.
This is an interesting article about 7200 drives and explains why they may create more noise than other slower RPM HD's.
Seagate Momentus 7200.1 100GB SATA notebook drive | silentpcreview.com

Edited to add:
I also had a 5400 PMR Sata drive before in a MBP i think that was a Seagate drive to and i found that to be very silent however in my iBook the IDE PMR drive i didn't find it as silent for some reason. I don't know why that is but i did notice a difference.

Originally Posted by tigas 

When I upgraded my original G3/400 to a 5400rpm disk, I got a little more performance in OS9, but a lot better performance in OSX, which is a lot more disk heavy. My main reason for upgrading was the noise, I couldn't stand the ball bearing noise of the Apple hard disk. However, the hard disk is always the slowest thing on a computer, as long as the CPU can process the data flow.

Then I got a G4/550, but to really get it's worth I had to get 1GB of RAM. I really don't think you'll get the best of a 7200rpm disk without a G4 upgrade. Get a Seagate Momentus 5400.3 120GB (5 year warranty) and you'll get almost as fast a disk as a 7200, but with less noise, more battery time and 20GB more diskspace than the 100GB Momentus 7200.1. I even think it's cheaper, too.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

To be honest, I just don't think a MacBook will do any good. It's smaller and lighter than the Pismo and it's definitely faster.

Definitely faster? It kills it literally. A G3 @ 500 MHz against a Core 2 Duo @ 2 GHz each core? I am sure you know this and it was just a way to say it.

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

But I keep reading all these posts about problems, about failures, about batteries dying after only a few weeks, etc. That'd be even worse if I had a new laptop and had to get it replaced after a few weeks because of xyz whatever.

Perhaps I would take the risk.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

The thing is: Nothing is as reliable as the Pismo.

I am not sure if the hinge plague touched the Pismo too, but in the Wallstreets it was really a problem. My Wallstreet still is in life for several reasons but the display falls easily by its own weight.

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

Neither the iBook G4 nor the PowerBook G4 are even closely as reliable as the Pismo is.

My personal experience is different here, but again my reference point is not a Pismo but a Wallstreet. My Powerbook G4 has been proved way more reliable than the Wallstreet, although I prefer the latter for its design and its better (gasp!) display. OK, this too has been reliable after the repair and as I said is still alive, nearing 9 years of service now.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

But will I notice the difference?

I replaced the HD in my Wallstreet years ago with a 5400 rpm one and the difference was more than noticeable. The Pismo is faster and the jump (4200 --> 7200) bigger too. So you are even better here.

[D'Espice]

@rach: That's pretty much exactly what I'm afraid of. I'm a very noise-sensitive person, and almost everything distracts me. I can not hear my current 4.200rpm drive at all, and I'm worried that a 7.200rpm (or even 5.400rpm) drive will emit that dreaded high pitched noise.

@Pierre B: Yes, as I've said a MacBook will be faster, no doubt about that. However it is NOT an option. I hate the glossy screen even more than I hate that stupid keyboard (actually, I miss my old PowerBook 1400's keyboard...). And in terms of reliability just search the forums and you will notice, that there are many many different MacBook problem threads. Also, what good is a dual core processor at 2GHz when it's idling almost all of the time? The Pismo's display is better, the Pismo's keyboard is better and don't even get me started on the batteries. It's definitely fast enough for what I need it for, which is almost exclusively word processing, web browsing and emails. I don't see how a 2 GHz dual-core would enhance my word processing experience

Oh yeah and the hinges are fine. Actually, even both hinges on my Wallstreet are still good - not as good as new but definitely still ok. As far as I know the Pismo doesn't have the hinge problem at all.

[amazing]

Here's a strategy: Your Pismo is presently perfect for you, and you're going to grad school next year. So: wait until that time to think about upgrades.

HD prices are only going to be coming down (and US bargains are going to be cheaper than VAT-added), and new laptop models are on a more consistent cycle.

[wubrew]

I upgraded my stock HD to 40GB,5400 IBM then to 120GB,5400,seagate and hardly notice any increase in noise.If you are going to keep the Pismo just like I planned to do for a long long time then you should go for ALL upgrades at the best available price.I have recently upgrade my stock DVD rom to a DL-Superdrive I got for $40 and I am again impressed by how an easy upgrade can make this PB so useful again.I am still toying with getting a G4 upgrade. That will complete my wish for this beloved PB of mine. In the long run the $ you spent will be worth it. I chose the 120,5400 because of the cost at that time and the fact that for the small benefit 7200 will get less time out of the battery. I will definitely revisit this issue when I have a G4 upgrade done.

[D'Espice]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Here's a strategy: Your Pismo is presently perfect for you, and you're going to grad school next year. So: wait until that time to think about upgrades.

HD prices are only going to be coming down (and US bargains are going to be cheaper than VAT-added), and new laptop models are on a more consistent cycle.

Strategy sounds nice... however, it won't work. I'm leaving in August, hence I have less than three months left. July and early August will be so busy that I will hardly have time for anything else, hence it's May and early June that I'll have some spare time to take care of possible upgrades

However, I think you're right about one thing. The Pismo is perfect for me, hence there's actually no need to upgrade whatsoever. I think I'll just wait and see and save the 100 bucks for later.

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

@Pierre B: Yes, as I've said a MacBook will be faster, no doubt about that. However it is NOT an option. I hate the glossy screen even more than I hate that stupid keyboard (actually, I miss my old PowerBook 1400's keyboard...). And in terms of reliability just search the forums and you will notice, that there are many many different MacBook problem threads. Also, what good is a dual core processor at 2GHz when it's idling almost all of the time? The Pismo's display is better, the Pismo's keyboard is better and don't even get me started on the batteries. It's definitely fast enough for what I need it for, which is almost exclusively word processing, web browsing and emails. I don't see how a 2 GHz dual-core would enhance my word processing experience

OK, I see. As for word processing, I don't know for Mellel but Word (depending on verison and OS) can be quite heavy for a 400 MHz G3. The OS 9 version is OK though even on a slower Wallstreet. But then again, in a Core Duo the second CPU will be sitting there idle. I doubt that Word can use the second processor for other than minimal tasks.

Web browsing too can be painful in a 400 MHz G3. There are many sites today with heavy content for this type of processor, but it is of course up to you to decide if you are satisfied or not.

[jools]

I upgraded my Pismo from the original 5gb 4200 drive to a 20gb 7200 back in 2001 with out issue - the ram was maxed out at 1024mb and I was video editing so the 7200rpm drive was noticably more responsive. I still miss that Pismo.

[kmarketing]

If you think you can benefit from the space and speed from a new hard drive, I say get one. Even if you decide to not keep the pismo anymore, you can always put the new hard drive in an enclosure to make it a portable external drive.

I bought a 100gb 5400 drive for about $75 and I've been extremely happy with the pismo. I'm sure the maxed out memory and g4 processor in mine helps, but I'm so happy with pismo. After owning pretty much every one of the apple laptop line, I think the pismo is the keeper for me. I have a macbook pro for my power needs, but nothing truly feels as good typing on as the pismo, and I don't have to worry about the durability, expandability, and serviceablity of the pismo. I say if you really love the pismo and plan to keep it, go for the upgrade. I think it will make a nice difference.

Good Luck!

[finboy]

Originally Posted by D'Espice 

Still the question stands. Has anyone ever put a 7.200rpm drive into a Pismo? I don't think that I'll be the first and only one who's ever done that...

I put a Hitachi or Fujitsu 80 in my Pismo last summer, and I'm pretty sure it was a 7200. No heat issues, and it's a lot faster than the 4200 drive I had before (a 40).