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Cody Dawg · Sep 16, 2004, 04:43 PM

Read here.

This guy left too small of a tip and he was chased down by a cop and arrested...for leaving too small of a tip on a meal!

PacHead · Sep 16, 2004, 04:46 PM

Anybody who dines out every once in awhile knows that there is a mandatory tip for large parties. Unless that dude has been living under some rock for the past twenty years, and eating TV dinners in his cave, he should have known this. And besides, it says it in black/white on most menus.

fireside · Sep 16, 2004, 04:47 PM

i always thought it was retarded that there was a mandatory tip for parties over 6 or whatever it is. its a TIP.

lil'babykitten · Sep 16, 2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
Read here.

This guy left too small of a tip and he was chased down by a cop and arrested...for leaving too small of a tip on a meal!

Dude, just post under iWrite. We all know it's you

fireside · Sep 16, 2004, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Dude, just post under iWrite. We all know it's you

don't you think that if it was iWrite there would be bragging about how she always leaves a tip of atleast 20% when she's out with her friends at a dinner party?

iREZ · Sep 16, 2004, 04:50 PM

This reminds me of the first 10 minutes in Resevoir Dogs, if you don't know what I'm talking about, do yourself a favor and watch the movie.

PacHead · Sep 16, 2004, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by iREZ:
This reminds me of the first 10 minutes in Resevoir Dogs, if you don't know what I'm talking about, do yourself a favor and watch the movie.

Excellent Movie !

Webscreamer · Sep 16, 2004, 04:53 PM

"It's not a black-and-white issue," Cleveland said. "It will be very interesting to see where it goes in court."

It sure will be. If the service or food is not up to "par" I don't believe you should even leave a tip. They should be happy they got some tip.

It's really one person's word against another...

alphasubzero949 · Sep 16, 2004, 04:59 PM

You didn't leave me a tip...I'm gonna SUE!!!111

Cody Dawg · Sep 16, 2004, 05:07 PM

Okay, I agree that the guy should have left a tip according to what the menu states.

But, can someone tell me if demanding that a person pay such-and-such gratuity is legally enforceable?

Whatever the issue, this sure is bad press for that restaurant. I kind of think they deserve it. Chasing someone down to arrest them for not leaving a tip is pretty low.

Sometimes leaving a tip is deserved. Crappy service = crappy tip.

ryju · Sep 16, 2004, 05:08 PM

My tips are usually around 14% or whatever change I have on hand at the time. And I only tip at restaurants.

Wiskedjak · Sep 16, 2004, 05:11 PM

I'm sorry, but, mandatory tip? If it's not on the bill/built into the total, then I don't think it's a punishable offence. The purpose of the Tip is to give service staff extra incentive to please the customer. If the tip is mandatory, what is a customer to do if the service sucks?

My tips depend upon the quality of service received.

OldManMac · Sep 16, 2004, 05:11 PM

There are two sides to the story. He claimed the food and service was lousy. The manager claimed the customer was obnoxious and abusive. Since none of us were there, I doubt we could answer the right question.

If the menu, and the waiter, clearly state that there is a "service charge" for groups over a certain number, then the customer is obligated to pay it. If it is listed as a "tip" or "gratuity" there is no legal obligation.

PacHead · Sep 16, 2004, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
I'm sorry, but, mandatory tip? If it's not on the bill/built into the total, then I don't think it's a punishable offence. The purpose of the Tip is to give service staff extra incentive to please the customer. If the tip is mandatory, what is a customer to do if the service sucks?

It is on the bill

Wiskedjak · Sep 16, 2004, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
It is on the bill

If it's on the bill, then he owes the money. I still think it defeats the purpose of the tip, though. No where that I've ever dined has had a mandatory tip.

Cody Dawg · Sep 16, 2004, 05:15 PM

I'm sorry, but, mandatory tip? If it's not on the bill/built into the total, then I don't think it's a punishable offence.

Great point.

Nacente · Sep 16, 2004, 05:15 PM

Stupid people, stupid cops, stupid laws.

Powaqqatsi · Sep 16, 2004, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by iREZ:
This reminds me of the first 10 minutes in Resevoir Dogs, if you don't know what I'm talking about, do yourself a favor and watch the movie.

I saw it (AGAIN) this morning

. Anyway tips shouldn't be mandatory. Over here service is included in the price and if you really want to tip you can do it. But HAVING to tip is plain stupid.

Cody Dawg · Sep 16, 2004, 05:24 PM

You can read the Reservoir Dogs script here (about tipping).

turtle777 · Sep 16, 2004, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by KarlG:
The manager claimed the customer was obnoxious and abusive.

The heck!

Then he should have had the customer arrested for being obnoxious and abusive. But the reason the manager called the police was because of the tip.

-t

turtle777 · Sep 16, 2004, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Nacente:
Stupid people, stupid cops, stupid laws.

Yep. The USofA in all its splendor.

-t

waxcrash · Sep 16, 2004, 05:33 PM

In the USA, the tip is not included in the bill. In Europe the tip is usually included in the bill.

Most Americans who eat out are ignorant of correct tipping etiquette. They think that if the service is not good that a low tip or no tip is acceptable. You should always tip your server. Servers only make around $2.15 / hour. It is customary to tip 15%. If the service is excellent, it is not uncommon to tip 20%.

Many restaurants will add the tip into the bill if the party is over a certain size. They do this to protect the server because most Americans are cheap. This protects the server because when you are waiting on a large party, you usually can't wait on other tables and a large party takes up a large part of your time which you could other wise be waiting on other tables.

Nodnarb · Sep 16, 2004, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
i always thought it was retarded that there was a mandatory tip for parties over 6 or whatever it is. its a TIP.

You've obviously never been a waiter.

First off, waiters make most of they're money from tips. The sallary is very little but the tips is what they pretty much work for.

Second, when you have a table of 6 or more, it makes the job that much harder. With two people sitting down and ordering two things, its easy, but then multiply that by 6 or however many people are there.

Tipping is expected, but they made a rule for the occassional as$hole who won't tip when he has a big party. And if you don't like the rule, don't eat at the resturant!

turtle777 · Sep 16, 2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by waxcrash:
You should always tip your server even if the service is not good. Servers only make around $2.15 / hour.

Why ?

If I am a lousy salesperson and work on commission, guess what I make ? Or should I make the customer buy something, just because they entered the store ?

-t

PacHead · Sep 16, 2004, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Yep. The USofA in all its splendor.

-t

Says the dude who comes from the country where everybody had/has an apparently very low brainwashing threshold, as they worshipped some evil, ugly, short austrian dude with a gay mustache. Your wonderful country then proceeded to ravage/rape all of Europe, so your USA hate is pretty ridiculous, considering all this.

turtle777 · Sep 16, 2004, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by brandon420506:
Second, when you have a table of 6 or more, it makes the job that much harder. With two people sitting down and ordering two things, its easy, but then multiply that by 6 or however many people are there.

Uhm, if you multiply that by 6, wouldn't you multiply the total bill, and hence the tip as well ?

You work 6 times more, and you have a 6 times higher bill & tip. What's the problem ?

-t

waxcrash · Sep 16, 2004, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Why ?

If I am a lousy salesperson and work on commission, guess what I make ? Or should I make the customer buy something, just because they entered the store ?

-t

You should try waiting tables. It is not easy work. Unless the waiter is a total Fu�k and screws up your order and ignores you, then I can understand not tipping them. However, most bad service you experience is not your waiters fault.

turtle777 · Sep 16, 2004, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by PacHead:
Says the dude who comes from the country where everybody had/has an apparently very low brainwashing threshold, as they worshipped some evil, ugly, short austrian dude with a gay mustache. Your wonderful country then proceeded to ravage/rape all of Europe, so your USA hate is pretty ridiculous, considering all this.

Ok, for a moment, I was about to call you an idiot.
But I guess your comment just revealed that anyways...

-t

Cody Dawg · Sep 16, 2004, 05:43 PM

If I see mandatory tipping on a bill I wince.

It basically says to me, "We're going to wait on you how we please so you can shove it."

I don't like it.

I tip well when the service is good. 15% is standard.

When the waitress doesn't give a darn about the service then I don't give a darn about the tip. It's that easy.

I've even been known to write, "No water," or "Cold food," or "Bad attitude" in that little space that says, "TIP: ____" on the credit card receipt.

Then I write a big fat 0 with a line through it and leave a couple of bucks on the table just because.

turtle777 · Sep 16, 2004, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by waxcrash:
You should try waiting tables. It is not easy work. Unless the waiter is a total Fu�k and screws up your order and ignores you, then I can understand not tipping them. However, most bad service you experience is not your waiters fault.

I agree, if it's not he waiters fault, that's a different matter.

But why would I tip the waiter if clearly HE / SHE is messing up ?
I ususally then tip less than 10%.

-t

PacHead · Sep 16, 2004, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Ok, for a moment, I was about to call you an idiot.
But I guess your comment just revealed that anyways...

-t

If you have a problem with facts, that ain't my problem dude.

Skip Breakfast · Sep 16, 2004, 05:47 PM

The reason why most restaurants assess a mandatory tip on large parties is because large parties tend to be more demanding and not turnover as quickly as smaller parties. And yes, the wait staff deserves more than $2.15/hour to do it.

OTOH, I agree that for a restaurant to enforce the policy the gratuity must be automatically added to the bill.

waxcrash · Sep 16, 2004, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I've even been known to write, "No water," or "Cold food," or "Bad attitude" in that little space that says, "TIP: ____" on the credit card receipt.

Then I write a big fat 0 with a line through it and leave a couple of bucks on the table just because.

You are actually doing the server a favor. Cash tips are better then charged tips because servers will not declare it as taxable income. A server is forced to declare a tip on a charge card and taxable income.

Nodnarb · Sep 16, 2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Uhm, if you multiply that by 6, wouldn't you multiply the total bill, and hence the tip as well ?

You work 6 times more, and you have a 6 times higher bill & tip. What's the problem ?

-t

What are you talking about? I was saying multiply the work by however many people are there, not the tip.

nredman · Sep 16, 2004, 06:02 PM

mandatory tips....FORGETABOUTIT

TETENAL · Sep 16, 2004, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
The reason why most restaurants assess a mandatory tip on large parties is because large parties tend to be more demanding and not turnover as quickly as smaller parties. And yes, the wait staff deserves more than $2.15/hour to do it.

Then why not increase prices by the amount of the "mandatory tip" percentage, pay the waiter appropriately, and let the customer tip whatever he wants or nothing?

What's so bad about transparent pricing?

Zimphire · Sep 16, 2004, 06:17 PM

When I don't leave a tip, I make sure to tell the manager WHY I didn't leave a tip.

iREZ · Sep 16, 2004, 06:39 PM

[quote]Originally posted by: waxcrash
Servers only make around $2.15 / hour. It is customary to tip 15%. If the service is excellent, it is not uncommon to tip 20%.

I dunno bout where your from but here in L.A., servers do not get paid $2.15, they get minimum wage (round $7.25 or so) just like the kids in McDonalds. If your a waiter/waitress your being payed to serve me, that is your job, that's not me asking you to serve me thats you working to serve me, it's my choice whether I tip you or not. I have no remorse in leaving a low tip or no tip for someone who didn't serve me as well as they did others, or whom I saw talking on their cell or co workers instead of refilling my empty glass. I've waited tables and it's not hard, and if it is then it's time you get a CAT scan because nothing that doesn't require a high school diploma is hard. Serve me OK get an OK tip, serve me well get a better tip, serve me like crap, I leave with low/or no tip. This tipping nonsesne should not be forced, I'm paying for the food not your services, the boss pays you for that. I gotta agree with Zimphire.

Zimphire · Sep 16, 2004, 06:51 PM

Yes and the price of the food usually goes above and beyond covering for the employees.

This is just the restaurant owners wanting not only their customers to pay for the food and service, but to also pay their employees salaries.

The amount of money I give depends on the service I receive. If I get crummy service, I wont leave them a dime. They don't deserve a tip.

A tip is a way of telling someone "Hey, you did a good job"

If you tip people when they do a bad job, they have no reason to do good.

fireside · Sep 16, 2004, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by iREZ:
I dunno bout where your from but here in L.A., servers do not get paid $2.15, they get minimum wage (round $7.25 or so) just like the kids in McDonalds. If your a waiter/waitress your being payed to serve me, that is your job, that's not me asking you to serve me thats you working to serve me, it's my choice whether I tip you or not. I have no remorse in leaving a low tip or no tip for someone who didn't serve me as well as they did others, or whom I saw talking on their cell or co workers instead of refilling my empty glass. I've waited tables and it's not hard, and if it is then it's time you get a CAT scan because nothing that doesn't require a high school diploma is hard. Serve me OK get an OK tip, serve me well get a better tip, serve me like crap, I leave with low/or no tip. This tipping nonsesne should not be forced, I'm paying for the food not your services, the boss pays you for that. I gotta agree with Zimphire.

macroy · Sep 16, 2004, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by waxcrash:
However, most bad service you experience is not your waiters fault.

How is not refilling my drink, being helpful, making sure I've got everything I need not my servers fault? I can understand if there were problems with the food - which should always be taken up with the manager. However, most bad services I've experienced is just that - the server not doing his/her job.

As for the mandatory service charge/gratuity/tip - I'm not sure I buy it. The number of people they serve will still be similar (i.e. 3 table s of 2 vs a large table of 6). The only thing is that its on one bill... and only one instance of tip.. so the chance of a lousy tip is higher. However, if the server does everything right, there should be no worries. Which comes down to the meaning of tip or gratuity - a payment/gift for service rendered.

Zimphire · Sep 16, 2004, 07:33 PM

NO tip should be mandatory.

Tips are EARNED. If you don't EARN your tip. You don't get one.

If you are working at a restaurant and you aren't getting tips, you need to find out what YOU are doing wrong. It's not the customers fault or problem.

Lancer409 · Sep 16, 2004, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by iREZ:
This reminds me of the first 10 minutes in Resevoir Dogs, if you don't know what I'm talking about, do yourself a favor and watch the movie.

Damn mister Pink .. lol

fireside · Sep 16, 2004, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by macroy:
How is not refilling my drink, being helpful, making sure I've got everything I need not my servers fault?

refilling your drink? being helpful? making sure you got everything you need? all your fault. first off, its your fault for drinking your drink. second, why would you need help? third, why would you need anything you didn't ask for?

ITS ALL YOUR FAULT.

waxcrash · Sep 16, 2004, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by macroy:
How is not refilling my drink, being helpful, making sure I've got everything I need not my servers fault? I can understand if there were problems with the food - which should always be taken up with the manager. However, most bad services I've experienced is just that - the server not doing his/her job.

I agree if the service is bad, then leave a bad tip. But, in my personal experience I've rarely had a problem where the server hasn't given me what I need. However, I've seen many times where a waiter has gotten a bad or no tip because of something out of there control - like the kitchen messing up.

fireside · Sep 16, 2004, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by waxcrash:
However, I've seen many times where a waiter has gotten a bad or no tip because of something out of there control - like the kitchen messing up.

well if the kitchen messes up and the waiter doesn't do anything about it..

Zimphire · Sep 16, 2004, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by waxcrash:
I agree if the service is bad, then leave a bad tip. But, in my personal experience I've rarely had a problem where the server hasn't given me what I need. However, I've seen many times where a waiter has gotten a bad or no tip because of something out of there control - like the kitchen messing up.

I would NEVER leave a bad tip because I didn't like the way my food was made. I realize the waiter or waitress has no control over it.

Reasons I don't leave a tip for.

� Doesn't come around enough to see if you need something. While that may sound petty, I don't know how many times my glass has been empty for more than 10 minutes because of this. I'd rather just be able to get up and fill it up myself.

� Is rude or doesn't pay attention.

That is basically their job to come around, pay attention, and be friendly. If they do all that they get your basic tip.

If they go above and BEYOND that, you'll get a larger than usual tip.

Zimphire · Sep 16, 2004, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
well if the kitchen messes up and the waiter doesn't do anything about it..

Eh, lots of times they don't realize it till it's too late. I can look over that.

Now if I want something returned because it wasn't what I ordered, and they try to argue with me about it, no tip. That's being rude.

pathogen · Sep 16, 2004, 09:17 PM

I tip based on the server's attitude. By default, I'll tip 15%, and if they're really nice, I'll raise it up as high as I can. But I never tip less than 15%.

You can never know the truth from an article, but it's not hard for me to believe that obnoxious customers screw their waiters and that this character was part of a party that were grade A pricks. I've seen so many as*holes at restaurants think they deserve to be treated like royalty because they come in and spend $6. Or put on airs because they have ridiculous expectations about food.

And if you don't tip %15 in NYC, the staff will remember. Believe me. New York is too expensive a place to live, especially if you're a server, to take customary tipping lightly.

Zimphire · Sep 16, 2004, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by pathogen:

And if you don't tip %15 in NYC, the staff will remember. Believe me. New York is too expensive a place to live, especially if you're a server, to take customary tipping lightly.

And if the staff does a horrible job, the customer will remember and not go back.