[RadarBob2]

I didn't think they'd upgrade the iBooks for another year, but now they've done it twice in two months, and the resale value of my iBook keeps plummeting.

Never buy a computer for resale value. This has been a trueism since the advent of electronic computers.

Bla bla. This is low end. You want to tell me what core image will do for you anyway?

Having only read the Apple web site on this, sounds like the main benefit is to the programmers. Sounds like core image is a "programming interface", with generic functions that are then mapped to the specific functions for a given processor. This means a program's video code can be written once using the generic function calls of core image, then to port it for multiple video cards, some "intermediary" code is written for each video card they want to support.

From the user's point of view I think this means that potentially any given program could support more video cards, given that the program doesn't have to be rewritten each time. It's a matter of economics for the software producers.

I really do not understand the 14 inch iBook. The screen resolution is the same.

Most likely you will by the time you turn 45.

I bought an iBook after the 1 Ghz bump and will keep it until either it breaks or becomes useless. Quit your bitchin.

Darn skippy. check out my signature.

I guess the question is, is it worth it to upgrade just to play games at a somewhat better frame rate?

I'm surprised you're asking that question, Zander. How many macintoshes have / do you own now, anyway? You got your first one only 2 - 3 years ago as I recall.

I think the most depressing thing about this update is what it means for the powerbook line. If the ibook had 64 megs vram, a higher resolution screen, larger hard drives, faster fsb, it would mean that they are able to make those changes because the powerbooks were getting a significant upgrade.

Minton has a good point. iBook will never catch up with Powerbook. Apple will maintain the market niche differentiation.

[solbo]

Originally posted by RadarBob2:
Most likely you will by the time you turn 45.

Possibly, but having a larger screen that has same base resolution seems rather silly to me since I am not yet 45

Considering the lameness of this bump, I would imagine Apple has a more major iBook upgrade in the works. Probably after they work out their Powerbook G5 problems.

[iPoder]

Originally posted by RadarBob2:
Having only read the Apple web site on this, sounds like the main benefit is to the programmers. Sounds like core image is a "programming interface", with generic functions that are then mapped to the specific functions for a given processor. This means a program's video code can be written once using the generic function calls of core image, then to port it for multiple video cards, some "intermediary" code is written for each video card they want to support.

From the user's point of view I think this means that potentially any given program could support more video cards, given that the program doesn't have to be rewritten each time. It's a matter of economics for the software producers.

If this is true, this might spell troubles for the users. Consider if the programmer can use one CoreImage filter to support a lot of video cards (similiar to DirectX), and have to simulate the same filter on the unsupported cards (extra codes, extra cost), the company might drop the feature supports for non-supported cards.

So in the short term, we will see different features on different hardware configuration, or at least a slower performance on some imaging filtering functions (blurring, sharpening, etc) on older GPUs.

This is specifically problematic for the game developers and gamers. Similar to what sometimes you have to use "software-simulation 3D effects" on slower video cards. (I am not quite sure whether there is any connection to the OpenGL, but it seems to me that CoreImage is to 2D imaging manipulation as OpenGL is to 3D imaging processing).

[jewing80]

More likely than not the �modest� iBook bump is the result of Apple (purportedly) failing to deliver a PowerBook update by the end of the year. Whether this is indicative of a major announcement in San Francisco (G5 or Dual Core), supply issues (Radeon 9800, current G4 at a higher clock, 100GB HD), or simply part of Apple�s �grand scheme� is purely speculative. As it stands now the only logical move Apple could have made in the GPU area would have been the nVidia 5200, which just so happens to be the same card found in the 12� PowerBook. Either that or increase the VRAM to 64 MB and stay with the current chipset. We all know how Apple hates to be generous with RAM of any sort thus it�s doubtful you�d see the iBooks bumped to 64 until 128 is standard on the 15� and 17� PowerBooks.

The 12� PowerBook and the 12� iBook are growing ever closer in features while still maintaining a fairly substantial price gap. Even configured with a 60 GB HD and internal Bluetooth the iBook is still ~$476 less than the 12� PB. The 12� PB in its current configuration will still have a strong market, DVI and the better GPU combined with the faster bus and clock will not only increase performance but also better serve the �pro� user. What consumers must now decide is whether or not the performance difference is worth the premium price.

Some may not consider the added speed, added wireless and the price reduction a big leap forward. This may be true technologically however it does position Apple competitively against other sub $1000 systems. The inclusion of dedicated VRAM is in itself a major advantage over most competitors. Add in Apple�s strong brand image, the beauty and functionality of OSX, a very elegant design, a market leading software suite and a very competitive feature set (CD-RW, 256 MB, 30 GB, B/G wireless, USB 2.0, FW 400) and I think Apple will undoubtedly have a winner for the holiday season.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by solbo:
Considering the lameness of this bump, I would imagine Apple has a more major iBook upgrade in the works. Probably after they work out their Powerbook G5 problems.

other than the g3=> g4 bump, how is this one lamer than any of the others? i say is killer- same proc as pBooks and built in airport? whats not to like about that?

[A Ghost Is Born]

Originally posted by d4nth3m4n:
other than the g3=> g4 bump, how is this one lamer than any of the others? i say is killer- same proc as pBooks and built in airport? whats not to like about that?

agreed.

[jamil5454]

I first ordered my iBook a week ago without the Airport. I thought it would be nice to have it but I didn't want to spend the extra money. Now that it comes free is very soothing to my brain.

Yeehauww, I can now watch porn in the privacy of my bathroom.

[solbo]

Originally posted by d4nth3m4n:
other than the g3=> g4 bump, how is this one lamer than any of the others? i say is killer- same proc as pBooks and built in airport? whats not to like about that?

No it is just as lame as the others. I was thinking something more dramatic like the move from the ugly purse iBook to the slick white iBook.

It is due for some kind of form factor refresh, it has been over three years, I think. And we all know how Apple likes to stay hip and cool.

[maCCer]

i had a ibook G4 1G 12 (does not have AirPort Extreme build in), i just wondering does the spec of the airport extreme card for the new ibook still the same as my one(??Wi-Fi certified for 802.11b and 802.11g??), which i installed when i bought my ibook.
thx

[Commodus]

maCCer:

It's the exact same AE card, since this is really just a speed-bump upgrade with no new features.

[iPoder]

Originally posted by solbo:
No it is just as lame as the others. I was thinking something more dramatic like the move from the ugly purse iBook to the slick white iBook.

It is due for some kind of form factor refresh, it has been over three years, I think. And we all know how Apple likes to stay hip and cool.

I believe that Apple will only change the iBook form factor when it is ready to move to G5 chip or change to dual-core G4 chip. If you look at the current feasible technology and the way the products are segemented, there are not many choices for them.

If Apple changes the form factor in next revision, it might need to change it again in one year to accommodate the new generation of chips (18 months from now). It is not very cost effective for them to do so.

At most, Apple might decide to bring the color scheme back on the same form factor to excite the buyers. But if that happens, it will probably start with iPod (jewel in the crown now), then trickle the design down to iBook. So don't hold your breathe.

Original iMac form factor lasts about 4 years. So this is not unusual.

But I have to agree with you that this is a typical update, not earthshaking change.

[diehlr]

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
The price drop is awesome. Included AE card and 100 $ down. That's better than including a 40 GB harddrive and a more capable video card as standard with the previous price tag.

Are you kidding me? You would rather them upgrade something you could just as well upgrade yourself as opposed to upgrading fixed spec parts such as the video card? You would rather in a couple of years your machine be a total dog in video performance without the capability of upgrading it, as opposed to having a much more responsive machine with the ability to add wireless yourself down the road? Are you delusional?

[DaBeav]

For Sims 2, looks like the iBook G4 will squeak by, if you got a 1GHz or faster:

Mac OS X 10.3.4 or later
PowerPC G4/G5, 1GHz or faster
256MB RAM (512MB recommended)
4.2 GB free disk space
ATI Radeon 8500/nVidia GeForce 2 or better
32MB of VRAM
DVD drive required to install and play

Linky.

Looks like it will run, but will it run well?

[iDaver]

Anyone know if the 12" iBook display has been improved since the late 2001 model? Mine seems not to have very good contrast. If it's better now, that might be a selling point for an upgrade from my G3 600.

[andreas_g4]

Originally posted by diehlr:
Are you kidding me? You would rather them upgrade something you could just as well upgrade yourself as opposed to upgrading fixed spec parts such as the video card? You would rather in a couple of years your machine be a total dog in video performance without the capability of upgrading it, as opposed to having a much more responsive machine with the ability to add wireless yourself down the road? Are you delusional?

You don't get the point. At this time, I consider it a better option for apple to use cheaper/less powerful components and making the iBook more affordable than making them more future proof with a higher price tag. Of course I'd like to see a better video card, but I also appreciate the fact that Apple has some of the best selling laptops in the market rather than the best-equipped-but-less-sold.

No need to be offensive in the first place.

[darcybaston]

Originally posted by dfiler:
[B]Price is more of an economic barrier than a 'psychological' barrier.

Since more people will buy a $999 product then a $1000 one, since more people will buy a $9.99 product then a $10.00 one, and since more people will buy a $19.99 product then they will a $17.00 one, you may be mistaken.

I've worked in retail and marketing for too many years to have an experience that supports the idea that consumers buy based _more_ on economics. If the spread is large enough sure, but not $1, for a computer. Economics doesn't cut it. Sorry. It only takes $1 to create a perceived sense of purchase confidence. It's an anxiety play well observed and TRAINED into the consumer since childhood.

The mind warp exists today because of an ocean of yesterdays doing classic Pavlov reinforcement.

[iDaver]

What are you trying to say?

[freakboy2]

tool,

that's a good attempt to summarize something that is way more complicated than can be explained in a paragraph..

rather than make any arguments, i'd just point out that all of what you said is true or not depending on the game you're talking about, what the system specs are etc.

Some games don't need any video card vram(civ2 or III) and the speed of the video card is almost completely irrelevant. doom3 won't even run on anything but high end. Some games use ludicrous amounts of RAM and some use barely any.

the ibook really isn't a gaming machine. afaik, macs aren't the best gaming machines.. if you want to game, get an xbox or ps2.

fb

[adamschneider]

You know, the VAST majority of Mac users out there don't give a damn about supercharged graphics cards. You guys (with the exception, perhaps, of the guy with the blueberry iBook) suffer from a severe lack of perspective.

If people are that gung-ho about games, shouldn't they just get a gaming console?

[Xiaopangzi]

As for the debate about whether a PowerBook is still worth buying now that the new iBook has closed the gap, no one has mentioned something that I have found important.

The iBook screen is totally useless outside--even in the shade or an overcast day--whereas the PowerBook screen can even be seen in the sunlight. I'm always frustrated that I can't discern a single letter or image on my iBook in my car even on the most overcast day, but my fellow worker can see his PowerBook screen clearly in the office even with the glaring sunlight filtering into the room.

Nevertheless, $600 USD is a lot of money for many people, so the iBook will become the necessary choice for those who cannot yet afford, or find that they don't need, a low-end PowerBook.

The latch on the PowerBook seems to be much stronger as well, keeping the case closed, whereas my iBook will not remain closed when it is moved even slightly--always springing open too easily.

[jamil5454]

Originally posted by freakboy2:
tool,

that's a good attempt to summarize something that is way more complicated than can be explained in a paragraph..

rather than make any arguments, i'd just point out that all of what you said is true or not depending on the game you're talking about, what the system specs are etc.

Some games don't need any video card vram(civ2 or III) and the speed of the video card is almost completely irrelevant. doom3 won't even run on anything but high end. Some games use ludicrous amounts of RAM and some use barely any.

the ibook really isn't a gaming machine. afaik, macs aren't the best gaming machines.. if you want to game, get an xbox or ps2.

fb

My name isn't tool - I just put that there because I was listening to them while simultaneously posting. I'm not offended don't worry.

About the game stuff, you're correct. I do know that First-person-shooters typically need a more powerful graphics card and reat-time strategies.

I love PC games, which, honestly, is the only reason I still have my PC hooked up. But, I guess my ps2 could suffice for everything but first-person-shooters, which are meant to be played with keyboard and mouse.

On a side note, I downloaded the COD demo yesterday for my new 12" iBook, and it ran like crap. I thought it should at least run decently because of the 9200, and on a Windows box it would. Macs aren't yet for games...

[Gunner1954]

Originally posted by Mr Heliums:
You can't get the SuperDrive with the 12-inch. Which is a big drawback for me.

Because my tired old eyes have a hard time adjusting to the small screen of a 12" laptop. The 14" laptop increases the viewing size just the right amount for with with my reading glasses. If I used the 12" model I would have to use screen magnification, and that blows the images up way too far for my liking.

For us 'old' folk, the 14" is adult sized. We'll get the 12" for our grandchildren. :-)

[brettcamp]

Well, I'm a forty something with a 12" Powerbook (formerly a 12" iBook) and terrible eyesight, for which I compensate in my 7+ hour per day computing by:
1. wearing glasses

2. liberal use of the ?-+ to boost text size, and also setting large text size in my application preferences

3. the recent purchase of a wonderful 17" external DVI monitor.

I went from a 14" Powerbook G3 to the 12" iBook and never felt like I was squinting more. Flat screen display prices have so plummeted in recent months that you can add a good one to your 12" iBook or Powerbook for less than the price difference between a 12" 'book and a larger-screen 'book. Depending on how you use your computer, that way you get the best of both worlds: a really big screen for most work, and the convenience of extreme portability when taking your book to class, couch, or coffee shop.

[iomatic]

...
you fail to mention mobile professionals or graphic artists/art directors who use this very model (read: me). I happened to be browsing this topic and I'm always amazed how posters tend to brush the fine points of the issue here. Apple created the iBook upgrade (they don't have a choice, really) that's quite adequate, and doesn't trump the PowerBook line, which is due for an upgrade provided Freescale gets their act together and releases a CPU Apple can use.

Based on the core market Apple targets (mostly educational) for this unit (oh, you kids will learn all of this later ;-) ), this update is fantastic.

Have fun, and enjoy the update.

US$.02

Originally posted by jmatero:
So, with the new iBook...

lets look at the 12" Model:

With the same configuration (RAM, HD, Combo....)

For an additional $600 you can get the PowerBook which gives you:

1. Faster system bus
2. Faster Hard Disk
3. Twice the Video RAM

So the question is, is that worth $600....

For a Gamer who wants an apple 12" laptop, yes it is.

For any other User, not really.

[A Ghost Is Born]

Here's a question for everyone, when do you think that Apple will start utilizing OLED displays on the notebooks? I think that it's still a year or so before the technology will ready for mass production. Considering the fact that it requires a lot less energy to power and light and that it's cheaper to produce than LCD, I am sure that Apple will want to use it. Has anyone else heard of OLED? I may not be fully informed and, frankly, too lazy to do a google search (my left eye is burning from some soap that seeped in from the shower I took just recently).

[iPoder]

Originally posted by A Ghost Is Born:
Here's a question for everyone, when do you think that Apple will start utilizing OLED displays on the notebooks? I think that it's still a year or so before the technology will ready for mass production. Considering the fact that it requires a lot less energy to power and light and that it's cheaper to produce than LCD, I am sure that Apple will want to use it. Has anyone else heard of OLED? I may not be fully informed and, frankly, too lazy to do a google search (my left eye is burning from some soap that seeped in from the shower I took just recently).

The only product using OLED screen I know so far is Sony's CLIE VZ90 (Japanese market only)

http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer...Z90/feat1.html

It seems to me that it is still restricted to a smaller screen, meaning the process of producing it is still not mature yet.

If you look at the comparison graphics, OLED only uses one layer of material and does not need backlighting. Thinner and cheaper to manufacturing, as you say.

Give it a year or two, IMO.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by A Ghost Is Born:
Here's a question for everyone, when do you think that Apple will start utilizing OLED displays on the notebooks? I think that it's still a year or so before the technology will ready for mass production. Considering the fact that it requires a lot less energy to power and light and that it's cheaper to produce than LCD, I am sure that Apple will want to use it. Has anyone else heard of OLED? I may not be fully informed and, frankly, too lazy to do a google search (my left eye is burning from some soap that seeped in from the shower I took just recently).

I'd say never but I could be wrong in my opinion a screen should be composed of a standard lcd in the front and then a black and white lcd behind and then a backlight so that it can be switched from a reflective tft to a backlight lcd.

[diehlr]

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
You don't get the point. At this time, I consider it a better option for apple to use cheaper/less powerful components and making the iBook more affordable than making them more future proof with a higher price tag. Of course I'd like to see a better video card, but I also appreciate the fact that Apple has some of the best selling laptops in the market rather than the best-equipped-but-less-sold.

I do get it. The original point was they should have upgraded the video card and left the Airport Extreme an optional upgrade. This way it would have been more future proof at the SAME pricepoint (subtract the modular airport extreme, add more expensive video chipset). Wireless networking is a user upgradable feature, video chipsets are not.

[A Ghost Is Born]

I agree with you diehir. It would make sense but i think that Apple wanted to make sure that there was still some strong dinstinctions between the iBook and the PowerBook (system bus, speed of ram, and processing speed wasn't enough apparently). Still I don't mind not having the Core Video or whatever it's called. Ultimately, I will be using my iBook for what it's been designed for (primarily an economy model notebook that's great for web access, word processing, minor photo and video editing). Would a better video card be better? Of course! Would I rather have a better video card than a built-in airport card? Of course! Would the better video card be a better future proofing method? Of course! Unfortunately, Apple disagreed. Regardless, i am very satsified with my new iBook.