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Babar · Jul 23, 2002, 11:52 PM

Hi guys, I already wrote a similar message in other forums but I need to get serious advice.

I am a student (college), I need a laptop that will last AT LEAST 3 years. I've been dreaming and looking the PowerBook for a long time now. The DVI seems to be a good revision but I don't know why I have the fear that Apple will make me regret it by releasing anoter powerbook in the next 4-5 months that will basicly ruin my investisment. I have a good deal here for a 667 DVI for 3600$ CAN which is about 2250 USD$. I got a Apple care for about 75$ too. But I've been looking for a PC Laptop too. Here is what I found:

Toshiba Satellite 5100, P4-M 1.7ghz, 512MB DDR, 64mb Geforce 2 440 DDR, 40gb, 15.1inch 1600x1200 screen, Combo drive, nice little remote for DVD etc... for the same price of the TiBook. But I don't get a 3 year warranty at that price.

I also found the Dell Dimension 8200 (1.6ghz P4-M, 256Mb DDR, Combo drive, 15.1inch (1440xSomething), 30gb, Nvidia Geforce 2 Go 32mb DDR. For 2800$ CAN ( 1,768.96 USD). That includes a 3 year ON SITE CompleteCare plan (24hr service).

Here are my needs : A durable laptop that I can run a unix on it, browse, mp3s, DVD but mainly UNIX stuff. I will also run Office and a couple of Mathematics programs. My main interest in the TiBook is the OS. I need PCMCIA so no iBook for me.

I know that I am writing this in an Apple forum but please use your good judgement.

I am buying in a week.

Yose · Jul 24, 2002, 12:00 AM

Get the powerbook, you wil not regret it. However, dont settle for a poorly built powerbook; this one has some with some pretty nasty defects and its off to apple as soon as I can go without a laptop from 1 to 4 weeks.

But still, its very nice - a good investment and I dont regret it.

Email me if you havbe other questions!

Chadrino · Jul 24, 2002, 02:15 AM

I was in the same situation for the last couple weeks. I wanted a Ti Powerbook, but then I started eyeing the Dell and Toshiba laptops because they have DDRAM and mobile GeForce cards, but in the end they aren't Apple computers. I bought a 667 DVI and it's great. The screen is big (bigger than the Dells and most of the Toshibas) and the other laptops are behemoths next to the Ti Powerbook.

As far as want you want a computer for, Apple definitely fits the bill. iTunes is a great mp3 app, I love it. And of course you'll already be running a version of unix with OS X. DVDs won't be a problem for the Powerbook, my last laptop was a Pismo and it played DVDs without any problems. So I say go for it, Apples last forever (well, a long time at least) and they're beautiful to boot.

rampant · Jul 24, 2002, 03:18 AM

The screen's area is actually smaller than a normal 15" display, don't be fooled.

BTW, that graphics chip is the Geforce 4 go.

fulmer · Jul 24, 2002, 03:18 AM

go dvi powerbook. the top-of-the-line pc notebooks are almost always heavy, thick, and hot, with lousy battery life.

seanyepez · Jul 24, 2002, 04:36 AM

Note that the PowerBook is in a completely different weight class. The PowerBook weighs less than six pounds. The notebooks you mention are, in reality, a little bit over eight pounds heavy.

PeteWK · Jul 24, 2002, 05:09 AM

I have a 667 DVI and I'm in love. Enough said.

PeteWK

Adam E · Jul 24, 2002, 09:05 AM

I own a 667 DVI, and here are my thoughts.

Make a list of all the stuff that's important to you and buy based on that. For example, if you're not a gamer, the difference between top of the line and almost top of the line graphics chips shouldn't bother you.

The biggest consideration should be the software (OS) you want to run--if you haven't used OS X extensively before I'd really suggest trying it for a day or too and see what you think. I'm a college student too, and considered the Dell Inspiron 4x00 and IBM Thinkpad T23--those are much more similar to the Powerbook than a Dell 8200. Speaking of an 8200, you won't be carrying it anywhere on a regular basis and the performance difference between it and a much lighter 4x00 is negligle unless you're editing video or gaming all the time.

I use my Powerbook for mp3s, mail, IM, web browsing, and office like everyone else, but I also like to code and play with the unix stuff. Occasionally I've had to run MatLab, but I did it remotely and routed the display over X. MatLab for OS X should be out within the next few months.

The only thing I've used Virtual PC for was a little Visio stuff--don't expect to be happy with Virtual PC's performance.

Traditionally Linux on laptops is a pain in the ass, so I'd check beforehand to see if everything is supported with drivers if those are your plans.

Good luck.

BrunoBruin · Jul 24, 2002, 11:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The DVI seems to be a good revision but I don't know why I have the fear that Apple will make me regret it by releasing anoter powerbook in the next 4-5 months that will basicly ruin my investisment.<hr /></blockquote>You think Toshiba and Dell won't release new laptops in the next 4-5 months and ruin your investment there too?

I got the 667 DVI in May and it is the second-coolest computer I have ever owned (the first being my G4 Cube, of course). The revisions made to the DVI models really addressed all the concerns I had about PowerBooks. The ability to hook up an external Apple LCD sealed the deal for me.

PowerPC · Jul 24, 2002, 11:37 AM

go for the Tibook. (did you really need to ask?

)

The TiBook is sexy and a great conversation starter with chicks

Todd Corzett · Jul 24, 2002, 12:13 PM

Go for the TiBook (I did

)! Something else you might want to look into is the availability of WiFi (802.11) networks at your school and the ability of the other computers to take advantage of it. You said you needed PCMCIA (what are you planning on using in it?) and adding a WiFi card/antenna might be problematic -- the TiBook has built in WiFi support.

About protecting your investment... any computer will loose much of it's value over 3 years. Top of the line computers like TiBooks will loose even more because when new modles are introduced they are no longer top of the line (and such loose the value that was in the premium of getting the top of the line).

The TiBook is also much lighter and better on batteries... Some of those PCs you mentioned go through batteries very quickly. If you're planning on taking the computer to school for the day and not recharging you'll need several batteries (expensive and heavy to haul around). While the iBook is smaller and more "backpack friendly" the TiBook is a powerful portable which will meet the needs of a laptop and a desktop (minus expandability).

-Todd...

iNeusch · Jul 24, 2002, 12:48 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Babar:
I am a student (college), I need a laptop that will last AT LEAST 3 years.<hr /></blockquote>Exactly the same problem here...

I tested the iBook and was not fast enough and the TiBook looks so cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
For obvious money reasons I'll have to go for the 667 (unless it gets updated soon).
I wonder how the 667 will behave with Access on VPC... anyone tested that ?

BTW, I tested airport card on a PC IBM WiFi network and it works great.

euphras · Jul 24, 2002, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by PowerPC
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The TiBook is sexy and a great conversation starter with chicks <hr /></blockquote>...have to test ASAP

fulmer · Jul 24, 2002, 02:22 PM

when I started college I got the wallstreet 292 model powerbook (aug. 1998). that sucker is still kicking strong today, just a month shy of its 4th birthday. the hd has been upgraded, and so has the RAM, and it runs OS X and many X apps. If you take care of that powerbook, it'll last a lot longer than 4 yrs.

Babar · Jul 24, 2002, 07:09 PM

I need the Cisco Aironet 350 PCMCIA card. No Airport at all.

urrl5201 · Jul 24, 2002, 08:37 PM

I don't see how anyone can regret getting a 667 DVI, even 6 months from now. I am set on keeping mine at least 3 years. It has squashed the annoyances of my old 500 Mhz Ti; no more wimpy 8 MB graphics card, even brighter screen, definitely louder speakers, audio input and the arguably the quietest, coolest running laptop of the Ti series. Not only does it's appearance attract the chicks, but I'm sure they would really flip if you featured them in a music video; they could lip sync their favorite artists with all the special effects of the free iMovie software and more effects from geethree.com. (Sorry, camcorder not included.) Yep, the Ti has all this capability and more. I take mine everywhere except to bed. Couldn't say that with my clunky PC laptop, which screams to chicks that I must be some kind of nerd.

nana2 · Jul 24, 2002, 10:59 PM

Babar: Do you plan on using a serial port to connect to switches etc? If so then the Dell may be best for you. Also it has a digital audio output for hooking up to a DD/DTS receiver, for ultimate DVD experiences. It has two Type II / one Type III PCMCIA slots. And there is an available empty miniPCI slot for a wireless NIC etc. If you can, get the Ultrasharp UXGA screen, it is well worth the small premium, for the increased viewing angles and contrast.

URL: If you want to pick up chicks, just put that $2,000 and roll it up in a big wad and put it in your pocket. Will get you scoring much better.

Babar · Jul 24, 2002, 11:11 PM

i dont plan to connect to switches with a serial port but that was a good question. I don't care about the digital about.. just a gadget.

thirsty · Jul 25, 2002, 07:08 AM

go with the Powerbook!

One off The best things I found about them is waking up from sleep, it's immediate, saving time. Tell me of any PC laptop that does that.

I had a PC Laptop and I never have regreted going for the Apple, Once you get a powerbook you just won't use it, you'll worship it!

The only problem I have now is Removable Storage, as mine doesn't have a DVD/CD-RW. So an upgrade may be on the cards just the DVD drive not the whole computer.

You''ll find the Powerbook PERFECT! And Office OSX is amazing.

Tiny-E · Jul 25, 2002, 07:33 AM

hey Babar,
Before I go on, you should know that everyone on this site is biased towards macs so almost everyone wil say go with the apple.

I was in the same situation as you in December. PC laptop or the G4 powerbook. I have NEVER used a mac before and knew my way around pcs quite well. I thought about the options and I chose the powerbook (550 model, with dvd player and 512 megs). Here are my reasons why: for what I was using is for (basic uni stuff and watching dvds), basically, it made no diff which one I bought, as documents and such are pretty much compatible (I have office X for mac on my powerbook). Since I was moving from Canada to Australia and am currenlty a student here, I wanted portability, and let me tell you that not all laptops are the same. Don't know about the toshiba, but the dell is a mammoth of a laptop. A mate of mine has the 8100 (same size as the 8200) and it's freakin' huge! I don't think it would ever move off his desk! The powerbook is a great size, superslim and light too! The screen on the powerbook is FANTASTIC!!! I love the widescreen, being able to put multiple items on and stil able to see everything-plus with the one you're looking at, it's got better resolution than mine which would make it even better. If you're going to unix, there's no other way to go. I have a pda (handspring) and have absolutely no problems transferring info back and forth from my powerbook. I bought an external cd burner since mine didn't have the combo drive and a few weeks later, they came out with the combo drive. But that didn't really bother me as I dont' have to really burn cds on an airplane or anything. Plus, I got office X for $10 american (my brother got it at his university in the states for academics). iTunes is fantastic-super easy to use and to burn cds! I got my powerbook for basically the same price as you are from my uni (GO QUEEN'S UNIVERSITY!!!) They don't really crash-mine started to crash after hooking up a printer but then the printer company released software for OSX and I haven't had any problems since. Lastly, how awesome looking is the powerbook?!?!?! It's basically beautiful and you will always get compliments on it.

The downsides are that, yes, it isn't as fast as the pc laptops, especially with them pushing 2 gigs now. So, if you're a huge gamer and want to use your laptop for games, then go for the pcs. No floppy drive, if that's a prob with you (shouldn't be since you'll have the combo drive). As for getting screwed over by upgrades, well, that's the computer world. Like I said, I have the 550 and now they're at 800, but that' doesn't really bother me. If I had bought a pc laptop (was looking at the toshibas and dells), I would have gotten a 1 gig model and now it's around 2 gig, so how crazy is that?!?! My powerbook does get hot under the collar, but it isn't like I can fry eggs on it! Yeah, the fan kicks in if you're running a couple apps but the 2nd fan on mine rarely kicks in (but when it does, might want to turn on a hairdryer to block the noise!).

Well, I hope this helps. i still use pcs at school here, but I love my mac and OSX is super easy and awesome to use. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Cheers

euphras · Jul 25, 2002, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Tiny-E:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> hey Babar,
Before I go on, you should know that everyone on this site is biased towards macs so almost everyone wil say go with the apple.

I was in the same situation as you in December. PC laptop or the G4 powerbook. I have NEVER used a mac before and knew my way around pcs quite well. I thought about the options and........ <hr /></blockquote>well written, don�t have to add anything.

iNeusch · Jul 25, 2002, 02:34 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by euphras:
well written, don�t have to add anything.<hr /></blockquote>I have to agree... this was great

mahoney2 · Jul 25, 2002, 02:56 PM

I dont think you should worry about if its going to last you 3 years. I bought my Pismo (400mhz) 2 years ago now for when I was entering college and its still perfectly fine. Jaguar will breathe new life into it, and I may go for the 500mhz g4 upgrade.

If you are using it for Unix, DVD, programming etc. you really want a mac. My unix abilities and the native built in java is outstanding. PC users here have to mess around with their computers etc. and go to labs to get full unix abilities on their windows boxes (yes i know they can load unix etc.) but I run terminal, XWindows etc. without a problem. My mac has been 'mia' for a week and i've been on my roommates Windows pcs and its been an awful experience.

If you are going to run Linux on the laptop id be careful. A lot of those pcs laptops have a lot of custom parts that are a pain in the ass to find drivers etc. for.

As people have said above good luck carrying around the Inspiron 8200, you are better off buying a desktop and carryin it around.

fulmer · Jul 25, 2002, 05:33 PM

yeah, the 8200s are monstrous. lots of students got them at the uni this past year, and I'd go to their dorms to do tech support. The thickness and weight of these things never ceased to amaze (and nauseate) me.

Codename · Jul 25, 2002, 06:33 PM

How many of those who own Mac laptops in universities use in a department or college that recommends wintel?
How does it impact you and your functionality?

Timothy Maxwell · Jul 25, 2002, 09:45 PM

I just bought a TI 800 and have been carrying it around in the box for the last 10 days. I was thinking that I would take the laptop back to The Wiz and wait until August or September to see if a new Laptop is announced. But I recently realized that it doesn't matter if Apple comes out with a new Laptop in 4 - 5 months. Even if you wait, a new upgrade will happen shortly after that anyway.

The only thing that matters is that the current offerings are better than anything that they have ever had. They are great laptops and you cannot find a bad review about them anywhere!

Listen to all the other responders. GO FOR THE TI BOOK.

fulmer · Jul 26, 2002, 03:35 AM

tim, tear that box open now and start using that wonderful machine.

the rev.C tibooks are great! granted, previous revisions are good, too, but the current 667/800 models are fast!

thirsty · Jul 26, 2002, 11:07 AM

TIny-E you hit the nail on the Head! Very Well written.

But damn - I got Office X Academic from the States and it set me back $245 US ( $500 AU ) how on earth did you get it for $10, man did I get ripped. Then again if I had to buy it retail here it's $995 AU(or as i recently learnt $299 AU for Academic )

euphras · Jul 26, 2002, 02:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> But damn - I got Office X Academic from the States and it set me back $245 US ( $500 AU ) how on earth did you get it for $10, man did I get ripped. Then again if I had to buy it retail here it's $995 AU(or as i recently learnt $299 AU for Academic )
<hr /></blockquote>I really don�t understand the pricing of the Edu software. I did get a full educational version of Office v. X (means i can use it even when i�m no longer at university), but i only paid 159 € (Euro, our new currency YN) whats more ore less equal with USDollar. Can someone explain

Pat

nana4 · Jul 26, 2002, 02:29 PM

Thirsty: In many colleges in the USA, they have an agreement with M$ which enables the students to use any M$ software for $5-$10 dollars (there is a charge to the uni that comes out of tuition i guess).

Fortunately in the PC world you can get an OEM copy of OfficeXP for far less than US$500. With Apple I guess you can't build an oem machine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

jock · Jul 28, 2002, 02:05 AM

I'd buy the 667, I've just sold my rev A 400 Ti for a 667 which is on order. One thing I will say that yes the screens are 15.2, so they are marginally bigger that the current crop of DOS notebooks. The battey life under X is not fantastic 2.5hrs but is about the same as my wifes IBM 2100 and my Toshiba satelite pro for work. I will say that the Mac syncs to any type of LCD projector, I've had numerous problems trying to get a decent mirror with toshiba's, especially if the LCD is old and works best at 640x480. Airport range in the rev a was pathetic, I'm just hoping that my new Ti is better. Speed under X is OK, just double the ram and with Jaguar all will be sweet.
One thing I would advise you to buy is an external bus powered firewire drive for back ups, I have a lacie and its fantastic, you just never know when you'll need it.
Good luck with your purchase.
One last word stability, X is as stable as my dec alpha running VMS... enough said!

nana4 · Jul 28, 2002, 06:03 PM

The screen may be 15.2" diagonal but it is not as "high" as a PC laptop. The screen real estate is less.

SuperGroove · Jul 29, 2002, 02:40 PM

While I love my TiBook, a great buy for the next 3 years would be an IBM Thinkpad T23 or T30. Not that a Powerbook wouldn't. It depends on what you're comfortable with. Stay PC if you're a PC head(like I am), but if you're new to computers or are very familiar with macs, go Mac.

Both the T Series thinkpads and Powerbook are similar in size, with the display advantage going to the Powerbook.

And to answer someone's question about being operational immediately from sleep mode. The Thinkpad does it better than the Powerbook. Want to listen to mp3s with the lid closed? No problem. Want programs to run with the lid closed? No problem. Want to just close the lid only to open it up immediately? No problem.

Build quality is exceptional with the Thinkpad. Moreso than the Powerbook. Your wrists will not suffer as much on a thinkpad than with a Powerbook.

The only thing I didn't like about my T23:
Poor video card.

Pros to the IBM:
-Build quality
-standard 3 year warranty
-built in wireless on some models(far superior to the powerbook)
-closed lid capabilities
-one of the fastest, if not fastest laptops on the market.
-RUGGED. Like drop from a desk, and all is well fine. Drop a heavy speaker on it, only display broken, nothing else.
-QUIET
-thinkpad controls(incl. volume control, mute, and thinkpad website button.)
-5.3-5.5lbs

Pros to the Powerbook
-lightweight
-thin
-Gorgeous display
-firewire
-combo drive standard
-nifty power supply

Nobody at my school liked my Thinkpad because of the eraserhead, but for some reason they preferred to use my computer over my friend's superfast desktop pc, and their own laptops(gateways, dells, and sony).

I wish I had a faster T30, but my lust for a powerbook was unhealthy.

Paul
-am on the PC with the 19" screen, as the Powerbook sits behind me unused.