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Detrius · 09:56 PM

There are enough people that have the same problem that I thought it prudent to help people figure this out.

First, let me define a couple of terms:

Freeze: this is when the mouse stops moving, the clock stops running, animations in your browsers stop, you can't log in remotely, and otherwise your computer stopped dead in its tracks. If you don't have another computer, this can sometimes be difficult to distinguish from a WindowServer crash (which is very rare), or a crashed full-screen application (like a game--try command-option-escape in this instance).

Kernel Panic: this is when the message comes up on the screen in several different languages saying that you need to reboot your computer. Normally, there is a file created at /Library/Logs/panic.log that keeps detailed information. Also, if you boot your machine in verbose mode (hold command-v after the chime until the Apple logo comes onto the screen), this information is dumped on the screen. In some very rare circumstances, the file is created/updated, but nothing ever got dumped on the screen.

Crash: this is a vague term that gives no information about what your computer did or what caused the situation. When an application crashes, it usually quits unexpectedly.

Detrius · 11:04 PM

If your computer is freezing:

This is almost always a hardware problem. There is no known software mechanism in OS X that allows a freeze. One thing you can do to verify a freeze (vs. a bad mouse or other USB device): turn on the blinking separator for the menubar clock. This way, if your mouse stops moving, but the clock is still blinking, then you know that your computer is still running. Check into USB devices.

Most often, a computer freeze is either the logic board or the processor. If your machine is under warranty, bring it in for service. Otherwise, the only way to know for certain what is going on is to swap parts. The most difficult part of narrowing down freezes is the fact that you don't get software errors--the software just stops.

First: re-seat the processor and make sure all screws are present, and verify the condition still exists. Next, remove all expansion cards except for the video card, as you will need that to run the machine. Also, remove any unnecessary hard drives, optical drives, external equipment, etc... See if you can still make the machine freeze. If not, add parts back one at a time to see what the culprit is. However, if the machine does still freeze, check the RAM. If you can swap it with known-good RAM, do. Also, check the video card. If you can use a different video card, do. If you can use a PCI video card instead of AGP, do. Repeat the freeze-check process (which is up to you--dependent on your machine).

Once you are only left with the processor and logic board, you will have to swap parts to see which is causing the problem. If you have a dual processor G5, this is easy. Otherwise, you have to be able to get an extra processor module. On the G4s, you will need to reapply heatsink grease. On the G5s, you should NOT separate the heatsink from the processor. On the G5, you can run with just one processor. Do this to see if either of the processors causes the problem. Note that there has to be a processor in the top socket.

With the G5, changing the processor/logic board pairing requires running a thermal calibration. This is part of Apple Service Diagnostics, which is provided only to Apple Authorized Service Providers. However, you can also get access to Service Source Online for one year by purchasing the Applecare Technician Training kit ($300 USD). Otherwise, once you have the machine fixed, take it to your local AASP and have them run the thermal calibration. They will likely charge you a small fee for this.

Detrius · 11:12 PM

If your computer is panicking:

This is the more difficult situation to generalize. This could be caused by virtually any piece of bad hardware or hardware related software software (specifically kernel extensions). Intermittent kernel panics are commonly caused by bad RAM, failing logic boards, failing hard drives, or buggy kernel extensions (e.g. older versions of the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 PCI drivers, or Norton Systemworks). Constant kernel panics on boot can be caused by a specific piece of bad hardware (e.g. Airport Extreme cards, or a well placed stick of bad RAM), or a bad OS X install (e.g. the kernel itself if missing, or the OS is too old for your machine).

The place to start is the panic logs at /Library/Logs/panic.log. Here's an example of an entry:

*********

Wed Apr 14 07:30:59 2004

Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 1): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x0000000000000007 PC=0x00000000000C1634
Latest crash info for cpu 1:
Exception state (sv=0x22486C80)
PC=0x000C1634; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x00000007; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x000C1600; R1=0x172DBB90; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x000C15F8 0x3B2B5C60 0x3B2B5664 0x3B2B49EC 0x000C9014 0x002405B4 0x00093E20 0xFF000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.Symantec.kext.SymEvent(1.0.4)@0x3b2b2000
dependency: com.Symantec.kext.SymOSXKernelUtilities(2.0.1)@0x3 b8f7000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x22486C80)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x26138500)
PC=0x9002E18C; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x001F5150; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00047B20; R1=0xBFFFE8C0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.3.0:
Fri Mar 5 14:22:55 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.15.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC

panic(cpu 1): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x000834B8 0x0008399C 0x0001EDA4 0x000909C0 0x00093C8C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x22486C80)
PC=0x000C1634; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x00000007; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x000C1600; R1=0x172DBB90; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x000C15F8 0x3B2B5C60 0x3B2B5664 0x3B2B49EC 0x000C9014 0x002405B4 0x00093E20 0xFF000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.Symantec.kext.SymEvent(1.0.4)@0x3b2b2000
dependency: com.Symantec.kext.SymOSXKernelUtilities(2.0.1)@0x3 b8f7000
Exception state (sv=0x26138500)
PC=0x9002E18C; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x001F5150; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00047B20; R1=0xBFFFE8C0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.3.0:
Fri Mar 5 14:22:55 PST 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.3.15.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC

*********

The place to start your troubleshooting is the line immediately following "Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):". In this example, this would be com.Symantec.kext.SymEvent. This line will generally contain the company name of the piece of software/hardware in question, as well as the name of the piece of hardware. In this case, Symantec is the name of the company, but there is no piece of hardware listed. (This example is precisely the reason for why everyone recommends against installing Norton Utilities.) Note that there isn't always a module listed--we'll get to that later.

If the kernel panic appears to have been caused strictly by a piece of software, you should first look to upgrade the software and otherwise remove the software and look for alternatives. If the panic appears to have been caused by a hardware driver, you should look for a newer version of the driver (http://www.versiontracker.com/). If this does not fix the problem, remove the piece of equipment and look for a replacement or alternative. A good example of faulty drivers is the M-Audio Revolution 7.1. Most versions of the driver caused my machine to kernel panic when I was changing volume. However, the latest revision has fixed this problem. An example of faulty hardware is Apple's Airport Extreme cards. There has been a relatively high percentage of faulty Airport Extreme cards, causing machines to be unable to boot.

Detrius · 11:17 PM

What if I can't get my machine to boot to read the panic.log?
or
What if there isno panic.log?

After you hear the chime, hold down command-v. This will boot your machine in verbose mode. Any kernel panics that occur will spew their garbage on the screen. This is the easiest way to see the Airport Extreme panics listed above.

If the panic says at the top that the machine is unsupported, then one of two things is going on: Either the System.kext kernel extension was removed, or you are attempting to boot from a version of OS X that is not aware of your machine. In general, this means boot from the correct install CD and reinstall (however, there are always other methods, but that's outside of the scope of this document).

If your panics are infrequent enough that it's unrealistic to boot into verbose mode manually, then you can change the default settings in Open Firmware. Enter the following command into the terminal:

Code:
sudo nvram boot-args='-v'

You will need to enter your administrative password. Also, you can remove this setting easily on reboot by resetting the PRAM (hold down command-option-p-r until you hear a second chime).

What if I can't tell from the panic what's going on?

Start by suspecting RAM. Boot from the Apple Hardware Test CD/DVD that came with your machine and run it. Run the extended version many times. Check the Apple System Profiler to make sure that all of the RAM is showing up the correct size. Also, you can run memtest (http://www.memtestosx.org/). If you are going to run memtest, you should do it in single user mode (boot holding command-s). Also, you will have to start the memory manager, so type the following commands before running memtest:

Code:
mount -uw /
SystemStarter

At this point, you need to know where you put memtest so that you can launch it.

If you get a RAM module failure, pull the module out and put another in its place. You will need to selectively remove RAM modules and move modules to logically verify whether the problem is caused by the module or the socket. If the problem is caused by the module, replace the module. If the problem is caused by the socket, either replace the logic board, or don't use the socket.

If the problem is not caused by RAM, the logic board and processor are both suspect. In the case of G5s, I have seen both cause kernel panics that appeared to be caused by bad RAM--many times. If the machine is under warranty, bring it in for service. If it's out of warranty, follow the above description about narrowing down freezes on a G5.

Detrius · 11:14 PM

What if the panic is caused by the Apple ATA driver?
or
What if my machine stopped responding, and when I rebooted I got a blinking question mark?

Suspect either failing ATA hardware (rare) or a failing drive (more common). Sometimes, the hard drive flat out stops responding while the computer is running. What happens is that the kernel either panics (because it can't get to the rest of the OS anymore), or your entire system immediately becomes unresponsive.

Boot from another drive (hard drive, CD, connect to another machine via FireWire target disk mode, netboot, whatever floats your boat) and see if the hard drive is recognized. The easiest way to do this is with the Apple System Profiler.

If ASP doesn't see the drive, none of your other software will either. Period. Connect the hard drive to something else. If nothing changes, try slave instead of master. At this point, your drive is just about gone--get your data off of it.

If ASP does see the drive, run Disk Warrior. You need to keep an eye on this. If Disk Warrior says "Speed inhibited due to drive malfunction," you should replace your drive. This means Disk Warrior found a bad block in the directory structure. You DEFINITELY should not replace the directory structure at this point. You need to have somewhere to store your data when you click preview. If Disk Warrior detects overlapped files, you will need to save the extended report BEFORE you click replace. More than likely, DW will fail with an error (and you won't get another chance to save the results). At this point, you should go through the PDF you saved and delete all of the files that were listed as overlapped. If they are files you want to keep, make a copy of them on another drive, and keep in mind that they are probably already corrupted. Once you have all of the overlapped files deleted, you can run Disk Warrior again. At this point, you should have a good directory structure and should be able to reinstall the OS and/or any apps that you just deleted files from.

Before reinstalling, you should run a complete surface scan. If you can boot into OS 9, you can use Apple's Drive Setup Utility to run a surface scan (test disk in one of the menus--don't initialize). If you can't boot into OS 9, Tech Tool Pro does an excellent job of testing discs (I don't use it for anything else though).

Detrius · 11:19 PM

A few final notes:

Bad RAM is very common. If most of your programs are crashing unexpectedly, or you are getting a lot of kernel panics, suspect bad RAM. Keep in mind that reinstalling the OS or any software while the bad RAM is in will result in a corrupt copy on your hard drive. So, after removing bad RAM, you will likely need to reinstall software. What commonly happens is that one day, the RAM stops functioning properly, but the computer keeps running. The user notices a few programs quitting here and there, but doesn't know what is causing it. At some point, a new upgrade to OS X comes out. The update is installed. Since every step of the upgrade goes through RAM, the upgrade corrupts a previously good file. At this point, the user posts a message on forums.macnn.com saying "10.x.y hosed my machine! Beware!"

Bad blocks on hard drives are common. Sometimes, you can map out bad blocks on the drive by performing a format zeroing all data. However, if this fixes your problem, you have a failing drive. While this may appear to fix your problem, you still have an unreliable hard drive. You should keep VERY regular backups and expect to replace the drive at some point in the not too distant future. The example here is very similar to the RAM example of a hosed system, except there may not be any program crashes, and the inability to boot comes with any drive changes, and not just OS updates.

Disk Warrior is NOT the ultimate utility that everyone seems to imply it is. It does virtually no hardware testing. If you can buy only one utility, buy Disk Warrior--it's the best for repairing directory structure damage. If you can buy two, buy Disk Warrior and Tech Tool Pro, as the second is great for surface scans (beware: you MUST backup your data before doing a defrag with TTP).

Big Mac · Apr 3, 2005, 04:23 AM

Well, just got my fourth KP ever:

Sat Apr 2 23:56:32 2005

panic(cpu 0): OSArray::_RESERVEDOSArray1 called

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x000836E4 0x00083BC8 0x0001EDA4 0x004B7054 0x004C17DC 0x004C15F4 0x004C40B4 0x0027EF04
0x0007B628 0x00021668 0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094358 0x00000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.iokit.IOHIDFamily(1.3.4)@0x49c000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2ED51000)
PC=0x900074C8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x2D63C000; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x90007018; R1=0xBFFFF460; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.5.0:
Thu Aug 5 19:26:16 PDT 2004; root:xnu/xnu-517.7.21.obj~3/RELEASE_PPC

I had a really long uptime before this occurred, of around 50 days I believe. The odd thing that proceeded this was that background applications would mysteriously come to the fore without me clicking on them. Mail would be in the fore and the suddenly Safari would pop up. I'd log out with Safari in the fore and Chess would pop up when I got back in. I decided I would log everyone out, and I ran into difficulty at that point with one of my users in particular. Strangely, my iDisk was mounted on an account that I don't use iDisk with, and there was a WebDAV authentication dialog box sitting there like the one pictured here. That dialog refused to go away, and Activity Monitor would not launch, nor would it be force quit. The Finder died, too, but my G5 eventually logged me out of that account.

I went back into my Admin account and looked at Activity Monitor's listing. Isn't it unusual for processes owned by logged out users to be still running? AppleSpell and some other Apple processes from users I had logged out were still active. Anyway, I logged out and right when it went to blue the screen faded, and I got the panic box (which will always be a bit shocking to me). Any ideas?

namannik · Apr 20, 2005, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Detrius

What commonly happens is that one day, the RAM stops functioning properly, but the computer keeps running. The user notices a few programs quitting here and there, but doesn't know what is causing it. At some point, a new upgrade to OS X comes out. The update is installed. Since every step of the upgrade goes through RAM, the upgrade corrupts a previously good file.

Well, this explains my situation in detail. I've run memtest, and the memory failed big time. Thanks for clarifying exactly why I noticed this after the OS update.

Ann · May 2, 2005, 11:51 AM

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this post, but I desperately need some help with my powerbook. I'm well-versed on handling Windows crashes, but I'm relatively new to OS X. Starting yesterday it began freezing, at the time the only applications running were Azureus, Firefox, and Finder. I had to force shutdown by holding the power button. It restarted fine, then after a while it crashed again. After a few times of forcing shutdown and restarting, the startup process began to slow down extremely. It is to the point where it just stalls on during startup on the screen with the apple. I can hear it trying to load stuff from the hard drive. After reading the previous posts to this thread, I tried taking out my additional RAM but there was no luck. I regularly perform software updates, and should have the latest OS X upgrade. Please let me know if there's anything I can do other than reinstalling OS X. I have lots of important files I'd like to get to and backup. Thanks for any help!

CharlesS · May 3, 2005, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ann

I'm not sure if this is the right thread for this post, but I desperately need some help with my powerbook. I'm well-versed on handling Windows crashes, but I'm relatively new to OS X. Starting yesterday it began freezing, at the time the only applications running were Azureus, Firefox, and Finder. I had to force shutdown by holding the power button. It restarted fine, then after a while it crashed again. After a few times of forcing shutdown and restarting, the startup process began to slow down extremely. It is to the point where it just stalls on during startup on the screen with the apple. I can hear it trying to load stuff from the hard drive. After reading the previous posts to this thread, I tried taking out my additional RAM but there was no luck. I regularly perform software updates, and should have the latest OS X upgrade. Please let me know if there's anything I can do other than reinstalling OS X. I have lots of important files I'd like to get to and backup. Thanks for any help!

FYI: You don't have to reformat your hard drive to reinstall OS X. If you do an Archive and Install rather than an Erase and Install, all your files will be intact.

mollusk · May 3, 2005, 10:22 PM

I had a freeze and forced shut down my ibook. When I restarted the screen that appeared was :/root# my name. I have no idea what to do but do know enough not to fool around with this. Would love some help so I don't have to wait til morning to call Apple Care.

ibook G4 OS 10.2.8

Scooterboy · May 5, 2005, 09:30 PM

type "reboot" and hit "enter"

CharlesS · May 5, 2005, 09:38 PM

Start into single-user mode by holding down the Command and S keys at startup, and when you get to the prompt, type this command:

fsck -fy

If it finds any problems and repairs them, run it again. Repeat until it says the disk is OK. Then, type this command:

reboot

Alternatively, if you dislike the command line, you could boot from the OS X install CD and run Disk Utility's Repair function on the drive. If you have a commercial utility like DiskWarrior or TechTool Pro (but not Norton), you can run that, too, as these utilities (especially DiskWarrior) tend to do a more thorough job than fsck / Disk Utility.

mollusk · May 5, 2005, 10:00 PM

Thank you for a response. I got in touch with APPLE CARE and they walked me thru the above suggestions. I had to end up with an archive and install and after running TECH TOOL I reinstalled all my software. Things seems a bit less "snappy" but we will see. Also I was running 10.3.9 Where was my mind? Thanks again.

John Strung · May 8, 2005, 03:44 PM

I have had a persistent shutdown panic ever since updating to Tiger. The log file did not show a particular application to be causing the problem. The Hardware Test Disk gave my computer a clean bill of health. I removed all third party hardware.

I finally solved the problem by doing a reset from Open Firmware as follows:

Start up into Open Firmware by pressing and holding the Command, Option, O and F keys simultaneously combination during startup.

At the prompt, type the following commands, one by one, pressing the return key after each (your system will automatically restart after pressing return the last time):

# reset-nvram
# set-defaults
# reset-all

TerryJ · May 8, 2005, 10:20 PM

Hi John,

Thanks for that tip. I had tried everything else to resolve a similar issue on my PB 1.25 and that seems to have done the trick. I'll give it a full to see for sure. Can't believe I forgot to try that.......

John Strung · May 9, 2005, 09:08 AM

I am beginning to wonder if there is a general problem with the Tiger install corrupting parameters. My daughter's ibook would not recognize her CD drive after updating. I used the procedure above to clear that problem based on a post on MacFixit, then decided to see if the same fix would cure my wife's G4's shutdown panic, which it did.

TerryJ · May 9, 2005, 10:17 AM

Well, I've already had my first freeze of the day since running the open firmware procedure but it happened under a little different circumsttances. Instead of freezing with a kernel panic upon waking from sleep it froze while trying to print an e-mail. Had to do a forced restart. I have had none of these issues on my wife's G5 1.8 SP so I aam wondering if it is specific to the portables.

Very annoying!

ramberk · May 9, 2005, 02:48 PM

I am in such deep trouble, I hope someone here can help me. I installed Tiger on my 667 G4 Powerbook (512 megs of RAM). I only had like 3 gigs of hard drive space but was still able to install without a problem. Didn't get any error messages before or during the installation process. The installer then tells me to restart the machine, so I do.

My Mac then restarts like normal. I get the loading screen with the bar, the bar doesn't finish filling up when it goes to a blue screen. I'm at the blue screen and can hear the machine accessing the hard drive. But I never leave the BSOD

So I try to boot off the 10.4 and 10.3 installation disks, but the computer won't boot off either of them. Maybe I'm not holding down the right keys to force the computer to boot off the installation disks. What keys do I need to hold down?

I also accidentally booted up in 'safe mode' I think. That took me to the user panel at the start of the boot up process. I chose myself (owner) and then I got to a screen with the desktop background but no icons or menu bar or dock.

I'm going to buy DiskWarrior this afternoon and see if I can find some way to fix it wit that. But I implore you all! Please help me! I knew I should have waited to do this install after my semester finished and I had done some file/hard drive maintanence with DiskWarrior.

Argh! My final projects need to be done in Word, Powerpoint and Dreamweaver.

Thanks much for any help.

CharlesS · May 9, 2005, 03:14 PM

Boot from a CD using the C key.

If it won't boot from the CD, try zapping the PRAM by holding down Command-Option-P-R at startup. Then try booting from the CD again with the C key.

iLikebeer · May 13, 2005, 06:03 AM

I have an iMac 800 w/ 512MB running OS 10.3.9. The last few weeks, expose will quit working, then sometime later the dock will quit. Usually I only have firefox, itunes, iphoto, and ichat or yahoo messenger open. Sometimes the finder will stop working next, and I have to do a hard restart. This all happens about every 3-4 days. I've had about 15 crashes in the last 3 weeks. Before 10.3.9, I hardly ever restarted except for software updates.

Latest entry on Dock.crash.log is the same as about 5 others with the same Exception and Code and says:

Command: Dock
Path: /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/MacOS/Dock
Version: 1.2 (1.2)
PID: 327
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0xb230c010

Thread 0 Crashed:
0 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94e41e04 vecCGSCopyVRAMToVRAM + 0xdc
1 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94da8524 CGSCopyVRAMToVRAM + 0x34
2 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94c64718 CGBlt_copyBytes + 0xaa0
3 com.apple.dock 0x0002fd24 0x1000 + 0x2ed24
4 com.apple.dock 0x0002e8cc 0x1000 + 0x2d8cc
5 com.apple.dock 0x0002fb38 0x1000 + 0x2eb38
6 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c45f8 __CFRunLoopDoTimer + 0xf4
7 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c1958 __CFRunLoopRun + 0x5c8
8 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c5e6c CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 0x148
9 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9022f32c CFRunLoopRun + 0x34
10 com.apple.dock 0x0000e568 0x1000 + 0xd568
11 com.apple.dock 0x0000e290 0x1000 + 0xd290
12 com.apple.dock 0x0000e104 0x1000 + 0xd104

Thread 1:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x900171d8 semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 0x8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000e9dc _pthread_cond_wait + 0x270
2 com.apple.dock 0x0000ab9c 0x1000 + 0x9b9c
3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x90024910 _pthread_body + 0x28
....then a bunch of other stuff.

The other kind is like this with 3 other similar Exception and codes entries

Date/Time: 2005-05-02 16:01:01 -0700
OS Version: 10.3.9 (Build 7W98)
Report Version: 2

Command: Dock
Path: /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/MacOS/Dock
Version: 1.2 (1.2)
PID: 1102
Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000020

Thread 0 Crashed:
0 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94c63af8 _CGSSynchronizeWindow + 0x4c
1 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94c5e760 _CGSLockWindow + 0x114
2 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94c76d54 CGSLockWindowRectBits + 0xec
3 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94c862e8 CGSImageLock + 0x90
4 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94c629bc CGSImageDataLock + 0x118
5 libRIP.A.dylib 0x91b81914 ripc_DrawImageObject + 0x41c
6 libRIP.A.dylib 0x91b8a66c ripc_DrawWindowImage + 0x154
7 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x94cba1ac CGContextCopyWindowContentsToRect + 0x9c
8 com.apple.dock 0x0001c588 0x1000 + 0x1b588
9 com.apple.dock 0x00024bb4 0x1000 + 0x23bb4
10 com.apple.dock 0x00031fcc 0x1000 + 0x30fcc
11 com.apple.dock 0x0000dd48 0x1000 + 0xcd48
12 com.apple.dock 0x0000dc40 0x1000 + 0xcc40
13 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901dd280 __CFMachPortPerform + 0xe0
14 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901d9a04 __CFRunLoopDoSource1 + 0xc8
15 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c18d0 __CFRunLoopRun + 0x540
16 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x901c5e6c CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 0x148
17 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9022f32c CFRunLoopRun + 0x34
18 com.apple.dock 0x0000e568 0x1000 + 0xd568
19 com.apple.dock 0x0000e290 0x1000 + 0xd290
20 com.apple.dock 0x0000e104 0x1000 + 0xd104

Does this sound like bad ram or a hardrive problem maybe? I only have about 3-5GB left out of 60GB.

TerryJ · May 13, 2005, 10:27 AM

Hey everybody,

Just a little update on my PB situation.

After trying everything logical from a reset standpoint, I started looking at hardware. Of course memory was one of the first culprits to look for. I ran Apple Hardware test, TTP, checked system profiler, etc. and all the hardware kept checking out fine. I ran across an idea to put AHT in 'loop' mode which found the problem. Started up for the AHT disk but there is no visible button to toggle on loop. To do this, press Ctrl-L and you will see loop mode appear in the window. I ran the Extended test overnight and in the morning it was showing a memory failure found on loop #13. It took this many testing cycles for the problem to surface. I pulled the RAM (Kingston) and even though I'm on only 512MB now, my machine is flying and hasn't crashed once. Funny thing is that the memory was perfectly fine (apparently) before Tiger and never gave any trouble until now. I wonder if Tiger is just that much more picky about the memory it likes or what. Anyway, if some of you are still having this problem, I'd suggest running this loop overnight just to see what the result is.

xi_hyperon · 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by TerryJ

Hey everybody,

Just a little update on my PB situation.

After trying everything logical from a reset standpoint, I started looking at hardware. Of course memory was one of the first culprits to look for. I ran Apple Hardware test, TTP, checked system profiler, etc. and all the hardware kept checking out fine. I ran across an idea to put AHT in 'loop' mode which found the problem. Started up for the AHT disk but there is no visible button to toggle on loop. To do this, press Ctrl-L and you will see loop mode appear in the window. I ran the Extended test overnight and in the morning it was showing a memory failure found on loop #13. It took this many testing cycles for the problem to surface. I pulled the RAM (Kingston) and even though I'm on only 512MB now, my machine is flying and hasn't crashed once. Funny thing is that the memory was perfectly fine (apparently) before Tiger and never gave any trouble until now. I wonder if Tiger is just that much more picky about the memory it likes or what. Anyway, if some of you are still having this problem, I'd suggest running this loop overnight just to see what the result is.

That's interesting that AHT loop mode found something. I ran memtest last night, just once, because I'm getting frequent app crashes and a kernel panic every now and then. The RAM passed all tests. Should I run memtest in loop mode?

Also, will AHT find RAM problems that memtest won't? I'm currently out of town on business and don't have my AHT CD with me.

EDIT: Just ran memtest again this evening and this time it found an error in the Bit Flip

Bit Flip : FAILURE: 0xfbffffff != 0xffffffff at offset 0x00eea831.

So at least I know now. Now to figure out which 512 MB stick is the culprit. Is the only way to know really only through process of elimination?

TerryJ · May 15, 2005, 05:28 PM

Hi xi_hyperon,

Not sure if memtest will be as thorough as AHT but it might be worth a try since you are not close to your disks right now. As I said, it took AHT quite a few loops to find the issue but it nailed it dead on. I pulled the ram and all was good again. For extra measure I backed up my drive yesterday, zeroed the drive completely then did a totally fresh install. My machine is flying now and not a sign of a crash since. If you have the time and ability, I'd definitely recommend this kind of totally cleaan install for extra measure.

BTW, to put AHT into loop mode once you have AHT running hold Control-L then select extended test and see what you have the next morning.

Good luck!

xi_hyperon · May 15, 2005, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by TerryJ

Hi xi_hyperon,

Not sure if memtest will be as thorough as AHT but it might be worth a try since you are not close to your disks right now. As I said, it took AHT quite a few loops to find the issue but it nailed it dead on. I pulled the ram and all was good again. For extra measure I backed up my drive yesterday, zeroed the drive completely then did a totally fresh install. My machine is flying now and not a sign of a crash since. If you have the time and ability, I'd definitely recommend this kind of totally cleaan install for extra measure.

BTW, to put AHT into loop mode once you have AHT running hold Control-L then select extended test and see what you have the next morning.

Good luck!

Looks like I was editing my post about the same time you posted yours.

It looks like it is the RAM. I have to look up the specs on the PB 17" - not quite sure where the RAM is located. Thanks for reply.

Daniel Bayer · May 23, 2005, 09:37 PM

Well,

I have been running 10.4.1 on my PBG4 1.33 for almost a week now and love it.
I also installed PS CS2 and it seems to work great in the new environment sans an occasional,
"Unexpectedly quit" message on start up if I drag an item to it to start it up.

The big problem I have is that it consistently has a blank screen when I open the lid if it has been asleep for over a 1/2 hour. I have to do a forced re-start to get it back up.

I did a complete clean install of everything, first time since I bought the PB back in September of 2003.

Then, earlier today, I was running about 3GB of pics through a CS2 Droplet and when I unplugged the AC adapter, I got a KP. Luckily, I made a note of what file number was on the screen at the time of the kernal and just resumed on startup.

So....I shut it down, swapped the RAM slots, Ran Disk Warrior 3.0.3 from a an external boot, zapped the P-ram and reset the PMU so we shall see........

Crazy! I have never had this bad of a time with an OS.

Any ideas????

Daniel Bayer · May 24, 2005, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Daniel Bayer

Well,

I have been running 10.4.1 on my PBG4 1.33 for almost a week now and love it.
I also installed PS CS2 and it seems to work great in the new environment sans an occasional,
"Unexpectedly quit" message on start up if I drag an item to it to start it up.

The big problem I have is that it consistently has a blank screen when I open the lid if it has been asleep for over a 1/2 hour. I have to do a forced re-start to get it back up.

I did a complete clean install of everything, first time since I bought the PB back in September of 2003.

Then, earlier today, I was running about 3GB of pics through a CS2 Droplet and when I unplugged the AC adapter, I got a KP. Luckily, I made a note of what file number was on the screen at the time of the kernal and just resumed on startup.

So....I shut it down, swapped the RAM slots, Ran Disk Warrior 3.0.3 from a an external boot, zapped the P-ram and reset the PMU so we shall see........

Crazy! I have never had this bad of a time with an OS.

Any ideas????

It's the dashbaord widgets!!!

I had a battery capacity, aircraft weather and a couple other third party widgets in place so I removed them from the P-List and restarted, VIOLA!!

I even left mail, weather pop and a couple other network related things up to check it and.....

No more wakeup problems.........so far.

Bring on 10.4.2

zandacar · 06:40 PM

I was having constant kernel panics from the Tiger install DVD. I was worried that the
problem might be with the DVD drive (since all prior installs were from CDs), so I
put the machine in Target Mode and installed from another Mac. When I finally booted
up that target machine, the kernal panics were still there.

After some experimentation, Web searches, and wasted hours on the phone with
Apple tech support, I discovered that the culprit was my Adaptec PCI SCSI controller,
model 2930U. I went to the Adaptec site to look for an updated driver, but they
have disavowed all support for Mac OS X. Apple had no answers, either.

I saw some suggestions at the MacFixit web site regarding removal of some driver
files, but that didn't work for me, either.

I understand other Adaptec SCSI cards are also causing problems, as well as
some other brands.

Unfortunately, this has cut off my access to my SCSI Jaz drive. I suppose I could
transfer the data to some other format, but I'm really annoyed because this stuff all
worked fine for years, and now because Apple can't be bothered to support SCSI,
I have to go buy another peripheral. (I hear USB Zip drives can hold 750 Mbytes now -
maybe I'll go with one of those.)

Anyway, here's my system configuration, in case you're curious

Dual G4 Gigabit Ethernet PowerMac
CPU Upgrade 1.33 GHz Sonnet Duet
256 Mbyte Memory
Adaptec 2930U SCSI Controller
Keyspan 2-port USB Controller
Western Digital Superdrive DVD/CD
SCSI Jaz Drive
Format Studio
Orange Micro IBot Firewire Webcam
HP USB LaserJet
HP USB Inkjet
Apple USB Keyboard, Mouse

waterbuck · May 26, 2005, 11:29 PM

Hi
I have a 3 month old Powerbook 1.67 MHz with 2 512 MB RAM chips and it has gotten bad in the last week. I need some help whether I can safely attribute this problem to RAM or a RAM slot or something else. I run OS 10.3.9

Starting 10 days ago I started getting stalls while trying to type into Entourage or Word 2004 (fully up to date version) (wait 30 seconds, and then suddenly my cursor would catch up with what I had been typing during the stall and let me type a few more words, then stall again). These stalls sometimes would affect Safari as well (often while interacting with Outlook Exchange Server email through browser). Several stalls would lead to new bizarre error messages from Entourage (error 16008, somewhat well known), and if I then (midst the errors) tried to open Word I would get "cannot open global template" and computer went to a full fledged freeze. After that the login screen had stalls (spinning beachball for 30 seconds when you are supposed to login with user ID and password after startup) and the normal things across top of screen (clock, airport indicator, bluetooth indicator) disappeared.

Fixed permissions, repaired disk, took to local certified reseller-->last week we reset open firmware. Computer still seemed to have stalls.He looked at a crash log or 2 and said I should assume that something happened to the OS. We did an archive and reinstall of OS 10.3.7 __>updated to 10.3.9, preserving user settings.

Things worked for 5-6 days, then got buggy again over last 3 dayswith similar unpredictable stalls first in Safari, then in Word and Entourage, then total freezes.
When trying to recover from such Freezes, the Mac user login window was slow, not always but mostly.

I booted computer with Techtool Pro eDrive from external firewired drive. It booted and ran the most intensive diagnostic suite available, discovering no problems including hte memory. I ran AppleHardware Test from Disk in "loop" function last night--> no problems detected, including with the Memory.

More crashes this morning, and very slow log-ins. When we repaired permissions we noted reports of orphaned nodes.

My response was to suspect that RAM was bad. I will refer to the outermost RAM (the one on the "top" if you have turned the Powerbook upside down) as "top RAM chip". We removed it, leaving 512 in the bottom slot, and subsequent reboot and login were clearly faster and snappier. Still, when running Safari and Word there were some shorter 15-30 sec stalls, although no complete crash.

To assess whether problem was the (now removed) top RAM chip or the RAM chip slot, we moved the remaining bottom RAM chip 512 MB to the top slot. The reboot and login were still snappier than when we had both chips in. There were still some short stalls in running various programs. Seemed like the top chip must have been bad.

We deduced that the previous week's OS 10.3.7 reinstall might have been corrupted by the bad (top) RAM chip, just enough so that things were still buggy with a remaining 512 left in either slot. I talked with AppleCARE, and they suggested that we reinstall OS 10.3.7 first with ARchive and Install, preserving user settings, and then more aggressively without preserving, and then if necessary, with an Erase and Install. If the system worked smoothly and we could prove that the RAM chip was bad (not the slot) then perhaps they would just send a new Chip.

So, I reinstalled OS 10.3.7 and upgraded to 10.3.9, preserving USER settings. There were enough curious stalls and beachball events that I decided to do an ERASE and InSTALL.

I did this with the formerly bottom ram chip, now sitting in the top slot (remember that removing the top chip had seemed to help, and in truth we couldn't tell if the problem was truly the chip or the slot because there was some bugginess with a single remaining bottom chip in the bottom slot or in the top slot).

After clean reinstall of 10.3.7 and upgrade to 10.3.9, computer started up nicely. Then it had some more problems early. Twice I tried to download the Office 2004 updates from mactopia and got a "file could not be created" error in the Safari download window. I tried to create a "download" folder on my desktop from the Finder and got a "operation could not be completed. An unexpected error occurred (error code-50)".

While this was happening I had been running Software updater in the background. Maybe that was my bad. Having reinstalled from the Install disk that came with the Powerbook in February, there were like 9 updates to download. While in the middle of downloading, the Software Updater froze with spinning beachball and I could not shut it down with Clover-Option-Esc. Then the whole computer froze (clock : stopped blinking).

So I restarted in single user-->fsck -yf and had 8 orphaned nodes to fix.

I shut down, and moved the former bottom RAM chip out of the top RAM chip slot and back to its customary home in the bottom slot. So far it SEEMS to be working okay, but all I have done is open Safari and type this note, and create a new folder without protest from the OS.

I can go to apple certified repair and/or talk with Applecare tomorrow. What do I ask for or demand?

1. I could say "I think the top slot is bad" and have them take back the computer for more diagnostic stuff? But if that is true, why did neither Apple Hardware Test nor TT Pro discover the problem in the lengthy and looped tests of memory? Can they do more to figure this out?

2. I could report in but then do further home testing. For instance, I could put the formerly suspected defective "top" ram chip into the bottom slot and see if the computer performs fine as long as the "top" slot is left unoccupied. How much more home testing makes sense given this course of events?

3. I could run my home diagnostics some more, but why are they detecting nothing?

For what it's worth, both RAM chips came from Apple and are same maker, same size, and presumably same LOT.

Finally now that I am wondering if the top slot was defective, and I actually did a clean reinstall of the OS with a RAM chip in the top slot, should I actually do another clean reinstall?

Yech....
Help...
waterbuck

Pao|o · May 28, 2005, 08:54 AM

In the past hour I was forced to restart 4 times. A few moment before I need to restart the beachball of death appears and my desktop starts getting corrupted/dispalying junk pixels (black and white) from the top to bottom til Tiger asks me to restart. Based on this thread it appear my video card is at fault.

Below is the error msg I sent to Apple.

======

Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 1): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x00000000C8354AFC PC=0x0000000000692C18
Latest crash info for cpu 1:
Exception state (sv=0x3ACC9280)
PC=0x00692C18; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xC8354AFC; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x006C7BE4; R1=0x1779B970; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x021EC020 0x006C7B30 0x00A682E8 0x007AA838 0x00AA11F0 0x007FAA98
0x006428D0 0x0003C738 0x000A9694
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.nvidia.nv10hal(4.0.2)@0xa3b000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.6)@0x477000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(4.0.2)@0x626000
com.apple.NVDAResman(4.0.2)@0x626000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.6)@0x477000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.4)@0x5ec000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.4)@0x610000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x3ACC9280)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x2D1C5780)
PC=0x00000000; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x00000000; DSISR=0x00000000; LR=0x00000000; R1=0x00000000; XCP=0x00000000 (Unknown)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 1 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 1:
Backtrace:
0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x0002683C 0x000A819C 0x000ABB00
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x3ACC9280)
PC=0x00692C18; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0xC8354AFC; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x006C7BE4; R1=0x1779B970; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x021EC020 0x006C7B30 0x00A682E8 0x007AA838 0x00AA11F0 0x007FAA98
0x006428D0 0x0003C738 0x000A9694
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.nvidia.nv10hal(4.0.2)@0xa3b000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.6)@0x477000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(4.0.2)@0x626000
com.apple.NVDAResman(4.0.2)@0x626000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.6)@0x477000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.4)@0x5ec000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.4)@0x610000
Exception stapModel: PowerMac3,5, BootROM 4.3.3f2, 2 processors, PowerPC G4 (2.1), 1 GHz, 1 GB
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce4 MX, GeForce4 MX, AGP, 64 MB
Memory Module: DIMM0/J21, 512 MB, SDRAM, PC133-333
Memory Module: DIMM1/J22, 512 MB, SDRAM, PC133-333
Modem: Spring, UCJ, V.90, 7.0F, APPLE VERSION 0007, 7/31/2000
Network Service: Built-in Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
Parallel ATA Device: ST3160021A, 149.05 GB
Parallel ATA Device: ST380011A, 74.53 GB
Parallel ATA Device: PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-104, 2.64 GB
USB Device: Hub, , Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: Hub in Apple Pro Keyboard, Mitsumi Electric, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 500 mA
USB Device: USB-PS/2 Optical Mouse, Logitech, Up to 1.5 Mb/sec, 100 mA
USB Device: SoundSticks, harman/kardon, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 100 mA
USB Device: Apple Pro Keyboard, Mitsumi Electric, Up to 12 Mb/sec, 250 mA

xi_hyperon · May 31, 2005, 06:55 PM

Just a quick note - I changed out the faulty memory and have had no problems since. Thanks to all who posted suggestions for determining such problems.

d.fine · Jun 2, 2005, 03:54 AM

Hi,
My G5 has had 3 KP's lately and they have got me really worried. I have performed Extended Apple Hardware Test and Repaired Permissions, which have found nothing, and also have done nothing. These KP's only happen after an extended period of sleep, like 8-10 hours, any less and these do not take place, they happenwhen waking the machine the next morning.
These KP's worry me because I cannot find any software or anything after "Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):", which make me believe this might be a hardware problem. This "Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0):" worries me.
I have never had any problems with this machine. The first 2 happened shortly after installing a 20"ACD. The third one happened this morning after installing a 2nd HD last night. Otherwise no new software or extensions have been installed. What I find odd as well is that I have been having problems with another user lately. Namely if my main user and this other one are signed in together, one will allow me to sign out, then the other one will force a restart because the computer is unresponsive. MenuMeters and the clock still work, but I cannot click on or do anything.
Here is what I see in the panic.log : (the first 2 KP's showed nearly the same message, the third one looked different, so I inlcluded it here.)

...
Backtrace:
0x002FB3A4 0x002FCB2C 0x002B3A00 0x002E78AC 0x0008B8C8 0x000291C0
0x000233AC 0x000ABE2C 0x00000000
backtrace terminated - frame not mapped or invalid: 0xBFFFF800

Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x4765C780)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x453F3280)
PC=0x9000A778; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0xE0006000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000A6BC; R1=0xBFFFF800; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x0002683C 0x000A819C 0x000ABB00
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x4765C780)
PC=0x002FB348; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x3752AF31; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x002FB3A4; R1=0x2CDB3C20; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x002FB3A4 0x002FCB2C 0x002B3A00 0x002E78AC 0x0008B8C8 0x000291C0
0x000233AC 0x000ABE2C 0x00000000
backtrace terminated - frame not mapped or invalid: 0xBFFFF800

Exception state (sv=0x453F3280)
PC=0x9000A778; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0xE0006000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000A6BC; R1=0xBFFFF800; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
*********

Sat May 28 10:53:07 2005

Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x0000000037426300 PC=0x00000000002FB328
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x4547E280)
PC=0x002FB328; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x37426300; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x002FB3A4; R1=0x2C703C20; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x002FB3A4 0x002FCB2C 0x002B3A00 0x002E78AC 0x0008B8C8 0x000291C0
0x000233AC 0x000ABE2C 0x030E4000
backtrace terminated - frame not mapped or invalid: 0xBFFFF800

Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x4547E280)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x45D79C80)
PC=0x9000A778; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xE0006000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000A6BC; R1=0xBFFFF800; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
panic(cpu 0 caller 0xFFFF0003): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00095564 0x00095A7C 0x0002683C 0x000A819C 0x000ABB00
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x4547E280)
PC=0x002FB328; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x37426300; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x002FB3A4; R1=0x2C703C20; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x002FB3A4 0x002FCB2C 0x002B3A00 0x002E78AC 0x0008B8C8 0x000291C0
0x000233AC 0x000ABE2C 0x030E4000
backtrace terminated - frame not mapped or invalid: 0xBFFFF800

Exception state (sv=0x45D79C80)
PC=0x9000A778; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xE0006000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x9000A6BC; R1=0xBFFFF800; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.1.0: Tue May 10 18:16:08 PDT 2005; root:xnu-792.1.5.obj~4/RELEASE_PPC
*********

I see CPU 0 here and CPU 0 there, and hope this is not one of the CPU's going haywire. Otherwise the machine shows no problems. It works as it always has, and sleep isn't a problem, other than these last KP's after a longer sleep.
Can anyone give me a better insight into what is happening here? Is this a CPU problem, or is it software related?
Thanks in advance.

d.fine · 10:18 AM

Today I had another KP, I get the same message, only this time it says CPU 1...

.....

Removed
.....

A rtf file will probably be easier, Panic_Log.rtf

kick52 · Jun 4, 2005, 10:49 AM

hi.

my iMac G3, OS 9, 333mhz, 160mb freezes at least 2 times a week. It used to be once a day until i made the disk cache bigger. it is normally on IE or on another browser or sometimes on finder. is it just me or duz my mac seem to freeze only while im showing it to people?

kick52

Scott-G · Jun 15, 2005, 02:12 PM

Hello,

I recently upgraded to Tiger and now occationally have my mouse pointer freeze on me. The keyboard and applications are still functional. I am able to tab though all the apps with the keyboard and quit them. I am also able to log out with the keyboard, which I do before I hard reset the machine because I am also using filevault and want it to close properly.

I have not been able to isolate a particular application or action that causes the issue. Other than possibly quicktime and/or aquisition, but it is not for certain.

Do you have any ideas on how I can track this? Would this type of problem show up in a log file?

If I had memory issues, would it manifest itself only in the mouse? I would think it would affect other things as well.

Thanks,
Scott

Scott-G · Jun 16, 2005, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Scott-G

Hello,

I recently upgraded to Tiger and now occationally have my mouse pointer freeze on me. The keyboard and applications are still functional. I am able to tab though all the apps with the keyboard and quit them. I am also able to log out with the keyboard, which I do before I hard reset the machine because I am also using filevault and want it to close properly.

I have not been able to isolate a particular application or action that causes the issue. Other than possibly quicktime and/or aquisition, but it is not for certain.

Do you have any ideas on how I can track this? Would this type of problem show up in a log file?

If I had memory issues, would it manifest itself only in the mouse? I would think it would affect other things as well.

Thanks,
Scott

I thought I would follow up on my own issue. It happened again yesterday. I started to think about hardware issues. My mouse is plugged into my keyboard. Since the keyboard still worked I unplugged the mouse and plugged it into the other end of the keyboard and it started working again. I moved it back to the original port and it continued to work. Would this indicate a mouse problem, keyboard problem, or could it still be an issue with an app that just happens to get reset when the hardware is re-inserted?

Thanks,
Scott

dimension10 · 12:01 AM

I have an 800mhz, imac running 10.3.9. I have been experiencing frequent Kernel Panics, but I am having a hard time diagnosing the reason because they are not leaving panic.log files in the Library/Logs directory.

I have disconnected all external devices and would like to try to find a way to pin point the problem before I open the machine up and start pulling out RAM, and the airport.

---edit---
well i found my log files and I am getting the following description in the log file.

Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x973000

So it appears to be my graphics card. Has anybody else run into this issue? Does it mean that I will have to send my machine into apple to replace the graphics card?

Detrius · Jun 18, 2005, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Scott-G

I thought I would follow up on my own issue. It happened again yesterday. I started to think about hardware issues. My mouse is plugged into my keyboard. Since the keyboard still worked I unplugged the mouse and plugged it into the other end of the keyboard and it started working again. I moved it back to the original port and it continued to work. Would this indicate a mouse problem, keyboard problem, or could it still be an issue with an app that just happens to get reset when the hardware is re-inserted?

Thanks,
Scott

Shorts in the mouse cable are really common with the Apple mice. It usually happens right where the cable goes into the mouse. In the future, check to see if the light on the mouse is still on when it freezes. Then, wiggle the cable to see if you can get it to turn back on.

patricr · 06:19 PM

I want to add a weird fix for my continued panics for 9 months. Replaced RAM, motherboard, CPU and reloaded OSX multiple times. All under warranty. Finally I looked at what was not present at repair facility: my network and my keyboard+mouse. It turned out to be be the ethernet settings in our 100TX network. I set the network ethernet settings to maually 100TX and setting the MTU under advanced to 1350 MTU. No kernel panics! No Apple rep I have spoken to has ever heard of this, but it solved the problem.

Equipment G4 Mirror door 1.25 GHZ
Stock video, stock 512 MB RAM, all as order and built from Apple- never added any other parts.
Made 4 trips to Apple repair during the 9 months...

Detrius · Jun 22, 2005, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by patricr

I want to add a weird fix for my continued panics for 9 months. Replaced RAM, motherboard, CPU and reloaded OSX multiple times. All under warranty. Finally I looked at what was not present at repair facility: my network and my keyboard+mouse. It turned out to be be the ethernet settings in our 100TX network. I set the network ethernet settings to maually 100TX and setting the MTU under advanced to 1350 MTU. No kernel panics! No Apple rep I have spoken to has ever heard of this, but it solved the problem.

Equipment G4 Mirror door 1.25 GHZ
Stock video, stock 512 MB RAM, all as order and built from Apple- never added any other parts.
Made 4 trips to Apple repair during the 9 months...

Did this get reported to Apple specifically as a bug? Can you reproduce it on other systems?

patricr · Jun 23, 2005, 05:45 AM

>>Did this get reported to Apple specifically as a bug? Can you reproduce it on other systems?<<

NO- that is the weird thing, we have 80 various Macs, and none of them had this problem. 2 other G4 1.25s and they don't have this problem (they were older, though). That is what was so perplexing to the Apple people involved.

slider · Jun 28, 2005, 04:35 PM

Thanks for the posts Detrius. New eMac here at work with Omni Technologies 512MB ram. Started getting freezes and then computer would only show bluescreen when restarting. Ran Apples hardware test and found that the J2 ram was bad. I removed the ram and reran the test after still getting the bluescreen at startup. This bluescreen startup started occurring after I did a software update, so reading your "bad ram" post above, I reinstalled the OS, which resolved the problem. Omni Tech is replacing the ram.

UFOff · Jul 5, 2005, 06:57 PM

Thanks for the information, Detrius. I'm hoping you can suggest something to help me out here.

A few days ago my iBook G4 (1.0 Ghz, 60 GB, 768 mb ram) started getting constant panics and applications would freeze up or just quit randomly. I also couldn't burn CDs in Toast 6 properly, as it kept saying "can't lead in/out". I hadn't read your thread at the time, so I just decided to back everything up using my 1 Gb shuffle to painstakingly transfer most everything over to an old Windows hard drive.

I then went for broke and did a clean install. Only it wouldn't install. It kept giving the blue screen (with spinning things) when it got up to a certain point. I called Applecare and they said to send it in, which I am doing tomorrow.

The scary thing is that I read your symptoms of bad RAM and that seems like what I have. The really disturbing thing is that you mentioned that most files and programs would be corrupted because of this. I have one Word 2004 file that is absolutely essential, and when I tried to open it up on the school Macs, it wouldn't fly. It kept saying this file is damaged, etc.

Is there ANY possible way to recover this file? I tried Textedit's equivalent in Windows and I got some of the text out with a lot of garbage at the end. Is there any type of recovery program or procedure that will allow me to get the text back?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Detrius · Jul 6, 2005, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by UFOff

...The scary thing is that I read your symptoms of bad RAM and that seems like what I have. The really disturbing thing is that you mentioned that most files and programs would be corrupted because of this. I have one Word 2004 file that is absolutely essential, and when I tried to open it up on the school Macs, it wouldn't fly. It kept saying this file is damaged, etc.
...

I don't recall saying that *most* files would be corrupted, but it's entirely possible that any file written to disk while you are having problems would be corrupted. The act of copying the file to the iPod could have put a corrupted file on the iPod while the original on the hard drive is still good. I just hope you didn't format the drive.

There's no way to recover data that isn't there. Corrupted data is generally as good as gone unless you have backups.

UFOff · Jul 6, 2005, 10:32 PM

Thanks for the reply, Detrius. Unfortunately, I transferred everything over and attempted to do a clean install, which erased everything.

Luckily, I do have a backup from a few weeks ago, and using Notepad on Windows I was able to extract text from the present corrupted file, albeit unformatted.

Looking over in the iBook forums, it seems like some iBook G4's are giving their owners problems at around the 1 year mark. Is this something you're aware of? Just wondering.

Thanks again.

Detrius · Jul 10, 2005, 07:46 PM

People notice when things happen shortly after the expiration of a warranty, and they tend to note that fact. If it were 6 months or more after the expiration of the warranty, people wouldn't say anything. The bottom line is that there is no reason to believe that there is any statistical significance to these events... you are just more likely to hear about them due to the coincidental nature.

On the other hand, I've moved from bench work on to programming, so I'm three months out of the loop at this point--but that's not enough time to not be able to dispute this claim.

jokarak · Jul 15, 2005, 01:53 PM

I was updating Tiger on my PB 15" 1.67 to 10.4.2. The update bar stopped at about 95% and was stuck there for over an hour. I tried to stop it, but the buttons were grayed out. I turned off the computer (in retrospect, doesn't sound like the smartest thing to have done), and now the PB won't boot properly - I get to the desktop, but the top menu bar does not show up, and the dock only appears 50% of the time. Mouse moves, desktop background changes every time I boot (that is how it was set up), but other than that, the computer does not do anything - can't activate the dock (it is there, but doesn't function), can't do anything. Any suggestions, or do I have to archive and reinstall?

I have much more experience in Windows than w/ OS X, and this is the first time I have my system hosed

...any tips would be appreciated.

jokarak · Jul 15, 2005, 02:41 PM

accidental double post...sorry

wiraqocha · Jul 31, 2005, 04:10 AM

After several hours of having been away from my computer, I turned on the monitor to find a panic message layed over the screen saver. Note that I did not copy down the entire message manually, and was unable to find a panic.log, so I had to use a similar panic (in red) to complete this:

System Failure: cpu=0; code=00000001 (Corrupt stack)
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x2BD2FC80)
PC=0x000940A0; MSR=0x00001030; DAR=0x18817FF4; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x00093F8C; R1=0x18817EE0; XCP=0x00000098; (System Failure)
Backtrace:

backtrace terminated - frame not mapped or invalid: 0x0F3EfEE0

Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2BD2FC80)
PC=0x001D62A4; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x0F3EFFF4; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x001D62D4; R1=0x0F3F0000; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00000000 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4
0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4
0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4
0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4 0x001D62D4
backtrace continues...
Exception state (sv=0x2B77BC80)
PC=0x9002E28C; MSR=0x0000D030; DAR=0x195AA008; DSIR=0x40000000; LR=0x90025148; R1=0xBFFFF7B0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.9.0:
xxxxxxxx; root:xnu/xnu-517.12.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

Memory access exception (1,0,0)
ethernet MAC address: xxxxxxxx
ip address: xxxxxxxx

Waiting for remote debugger connection.

--------

The computer is a MDD G4 ,1.25Ghz CPU, 1.25G RAM. This is the first time it has panicked.

Detrius · Jul 31, 2005, 08:51 PM

Corrupt stack almost certainly means bad RAM. The stack is an object in memory. There are other possibilities, but you are almost certainly looking at bad RAM. Check out http://www.memtestosx.org/ and run it for a day or two. That should give you a pretty clear picture of how stable your hardware is.

You should also run the Apple Hardware Test that came with your computer. It may give faster results than memtest, and if it does, it will tell you which module/socket is bad. Remember to run the tests before changing anything in your hardware configuration--it makes it much easier to verify that the issue is gone later.