[macintologist]

Let's say I was interested in buying a $5000 car from someone who listed it on Craigslist. Since we're not going through a site like ebay or Paypal which has fraud prevention menchanisms, how do you go about making sure that the guy you're buying from doesn't deposit your check and run with it (ie. his phone gets disconnected, doesn't answer emails, have no way of getting a hold of him)

Is there a service, government or private, that one can use to make sure both parties in a local deal keep their end of the deal?

[turtle777]

Wouldn't you take possession of the car, keys and title before handing your check ?

Also, have it inspected by a dealership of your choice beforehand.

-t

[richwig83]

Don't pay for the car up front, and make sure you pay either cash or bankers draft when you are handed the keys. If you buy a car privately you buy it 'as seen' if it breaks down 5 miles down the road i doubt there is much you can do!!

[Big Mac]

The same way you'd deal with any private seller.

[sek929]

Have someone who knows legalese write up a quick agreement. Both parties sign it and boom, you've got legal recourse.

[Big Mac]

Bill of Sale Form LawDepot.com

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Wouldn't you take possession of the car, keys and title before handing your check ?

Also, have it inspected by a dealership of your choice beforehand.

-t

Not dealership, specialty mechanic. Dealerships like to add stuff in that they say is "wrong" then fix it and give you the bill without consent.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Not dealership, specialty mechanic. Dealerships like to add stuff in that they say is "wrong" then fix it and give you the bill without consent.

LOL, you apparently don't own a car.

It's EXACTLY the other way round. Independent shops will try to oversell you ALL THE TIME. Dealerships will very rarely tell you something is broken and offer to fix it if there is NO merit to it at all. The problem with the independent shops is that their knowledge is so broad and spread out over so many makes and models, they often are not SURE about things and might really think something is broken that's not.

In short: dealerships are more expensive, but worth the expert opinion.
With repair shops, you ask three shops and get five opinions.

-t

[Big Mac]

No way, turtle. It's fairly common knowledge in most circles that dealers are not to be trusted with any significant maintenance (this applies, at least AFAIK, across the United States). I had a repair recommended to me that the dealer wanted to charge me $1500 for. Another dealer was more reasonable - $900 - and they said that's because their dealer is in a lower-scale area and therefore cannot afford to charge as much. My local Ford repair shop said that what the dealers wanted to do was completely unnecessary (replacing a whole bunch of parts), and that an equivalent repair to one part would cost me $200. The dealers never let me know the other option was available. My repair shop told me that if the dealers did their repair jobs well, local guys would be out of business. And that makes sense. And anyway, everyone always recommends finding a trustworthy mechanic, and that usually means someone independent.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Wouldn't you take possession of the car, keys and title before handing your check ?

Also, have it inspected by a dealership of your choice beforehand.

-t

In that case how can the seller be guaranteed that I won't run with the car, title, etc, when the check is worthless?

[sek929]

You give him your license or some other collateral that has your info on it, just like a dealership would do.

[richwig83]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

In that case how can the seller be guaranteed that I won't run with the car, title, etc, when the check is worthless?

You use a bankers draft which is cleared funds! Don't use a regular cheque! That way he'll know the funds are guaranteed.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by richwig83 

You use a bankers draft which is cleared funds! Don't use a regular cheque! That way he'll know the funds are guaranteed.

Ya but, he said take the car before giving any payment.

[iMOTOR]

Originally Posted by richwig83 

You use a bankers draft which is cleared funds! Don't use a regular cheque! That way he'll know the funds are guaranteed.

We call them Cashiers Checks over here, and a cashiers check printed by a scam artist is just as worthless as a bad personal check.
Just do what everyone else does and drive the seller to their bank so they can cash it in person.

As far as dealership vs independent shop; it depends, I take my car to an independent Volvo specialist because it's cheaper, much more convenient and very honest. I've never mistrusted the Volvo dealership though.

I do think dishonest dealerships and shops are more common though.

[irunat2am]

Sign a contract that lets you take it to a mechanic of your choice before purchasing. Take to said mechanic. Mechanic will tell you if it's a piece of shizz they say you need $3823.82 worth of work. Decide Yes/No on purchase of car. Next Step.

Lay out a contract of what is being paid for/exchanged. Make copies of each others licenses and any other relevant information. If the car is good to go from the mechanics, and you like what you see, BUYBUYBUYBUYBUY. You hand the check, they hand over the keys. Ta-da.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

No way, turtle. It's fairly common knowledge in most circles that dealers are not to be trusted with any significant maintenance (this applies, at least AFAIK, across the United States). I had a repair recommended to me that the dealer wanted to charge me $1500 for. Another dealer was more reasonable - $900 - and they said that's because their dealer is in a lower-scale area and therefore cannot afford to charge as much. My local Ford repair shop said that what the dealers wanted to do was completely unnecessary (replacing a whole bunch of parts), and that an equivalent repair to one part would cost me $200. The dealers never let me know the other option was available. My repair shop told me that if the dealers did their repair jobs well, local guys would be out of business. And that makes sense. And anyway, everyone always recommends finding a trustworthy mechanic, and that usually means someone independent.

My experience was exactly the OPPOSITE.
Got several opinions from shops like Midas, Tuffy's etc, and they ALL wanted to fix things that my Ford delaerhsip said were ok. Go figure.

When it comes down to it, I trust the Ford (insert the make of your choice) mechanics more, because that make is what they work on ALL day long. I never said it's gonna be cheaper, but that's NOT what P is after. He wants to know for sure what's wrong with the car. If the dealership doesn't find anything wrong, chances are, there IS nothing wrong.

-t

[ghporter]

Whether you use a dealership or mechanic, you'd KNOW the people you'd have going over the car before you chose them. That way you'd know if you could trust their judgment of the car.

And the transaction is best done at some public place-a bank lobby is a good idea. Either the seller's or yours, but yours may be more comfortable. They can also notarize the bill of sale-which should have the seller attest to the fact that there is nothing hidden, no unmentioned accidents, etc. A notarized statement to that effect is basically a decent guarantee, and it puts the seller on notice that you're serious about not getting stung. Another good idea is to get the seller to provide a Carfax report on the car. It costs a little money, but compared to $5k, it's peanuts-and again it says you're serious.

[Big Mac]

Good suggestions, Glenn.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

My experience was exactly the OPPOSITE.
Got several opinions from shops like Midas, Tuffy's etc, and they ALL wanted to fix things that my Ford delaerhsip said were ok. Go figure.

When it comes down to it, I trust the Ford (insert the make of your choice) mechanics more, because that make is what they work on ALL day long. I never said it's gonna be cheaper, but that's NOT what P is after. He wants to know for sure what's wrong with the car. If the dealership doesn't find anything wrong, chances are, there IS nothing wrong.

-t

Midas is not a specialty mechanic. Take the car to a mechanic that specializes in that make. I've never taken my Volvo to a Midas or anything like that. I take it to a guy who has been working on Volvo's since he was 17 (he's in his 60s now). I've gotten estimates from him for a front air dam that was almost $900 less than the dealer. Oh, and CarFax is amazing. I wouldn't buy a used car that isn't on CarFax.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Midas is not a specialty mechanic. Take the car to a mechanic that specializes in that make.

I have never seen a mechanic that was independent, specialized only on certain makes, but not a dealership.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

I take it to a guy who has been working on Volvo's since he was 17 (he's in his 60s now).

Yes, depending on what car you drive, he will tell you that he has been working on

1) Ford's since he was 17
2) GM's since he was 17
3) Chrysler's since he was 17
4) Honda's since he was 30
5) Toyota;s since he was 25
6) VW's since he was 17

You get the idea.

-t

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by irunat2am 

Sign a contract that lets you take it to a mechanic of your choice before purchasing. Take to said mechanic. Mechanic will tell you if it's a piece of shizz they say you need $3823.82 worth of work. Decide Yes/No on purchase of car. Next Step.

Lay out a contract of what is being paid for/exchanged. Make copies of each others licenses and any other relevant information. If the car is good to go from the mechanics, and you like what you see, BUYBUYBUYBUYBUY. You hand the check, they hand over the keys. Ta-da.

Would you recommend taking it to several mechanics to make sure one of them isn't making up stuff to get more money out of you?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I have never seen a mechanic that was independent, specialized only on certain makes, but not a dealership.




Yes, depending on what car you drive, he will tell you that he has been working on

1) Ford's since he was 17
2) GM's since he was 17
3) Chrysler's since he was 17
4) Honda's since he was 30
5) Toyota;s since he was 25
6) VW's since he was 17

You get the idea.

-t

Do you live on Earth? They are everywhere.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Do you live on Earth? They are everywhere.

LOL, no, they are general mechanics that tell you what you wanted to hear (i.e. "I'm specialized in xyz..."), and you fell for it.

-t

[Rev-O]

As far as the Dealer vs Independent mechanic debate, just find a local place like Automotive MDs. This is a Denver outfit that just does inspections and diagnostics. They don't do any repairs, so they don't have anything to gain by inventing crap.
If you have something like this around, they're probably listed under Automotive Diagnostics in the yellow pages.
I know people who have used CarFax before with some success.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Rev-O 

As far as the Dealer vs Independent mechanic debate, just find a local place like Automotive MDs. This is a Denver outfit that just does inspections and diagnostics. They don't do any repairs, so they don't have anything to gain by inventing crap.
If you have something like this around, they're probably listed under Automotive Diagnostics in the yellow pages.

That's a great idea.

-t

[talisker]

Tim Harford's book, "The Undercover Economist", has some interesting observations on the second hand car market, particularly the one involving private sellers. Basically, it doesn't work.

Imagine you are selling a car. You know it well and know that it is reliable and well looked after, and you know what its value is. The trouble is, that no matter what you do, any potential buyer won't have the same confidence as you do about whether it's a good, reliable car or not. For them, there will always be an element of risk. You may seem like an honest seller, and the car seems to be OK, but there is a small chance it could be a lemon. Therefore, to acknowledge that risk, they'll offer you less money.

So you'll never be able to sell your car for its true value. Therefore, people with good quality cars are discouraged from selling them privately, and all thats left is the crap.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by talisker 

Tim Harford's book, "The Undercover Economist", has some interesting observations on the second hand car market, particularly the one involving private sellers. Basically, it doesn't work.

Imagine you are selling a car. You know it well and know that it is reliable and well looked after, and you know what its value is. The trouble is, that no matter what you do, any potential buyer won't have the same confidence as you do about whether it's a good, reliable car or not. For them, there will always be an element of risk. You may seem like an honest seller, and the car seems to be OK, but there is a small chance it could be a lemon. Therefore, to acknowledge that risk, they'll offer you less money.

So you'll never be able to sell your car for its true value. Therefore, people with good quality cars are discouraged from selling them privately, and all thats left is the crap.

The thing is you get an even lower-ball estimate from a trade-in proposal with your dealer.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by talisker 

Tim Harford's book, "The Undercover Economist", has some interesting observations on the second hand car market, particularly the one involving private sellers. Basically, it doesn't work.

Imagine you are selling a car. You know it well and know that it is reliable and well looked after, and you know what its value is. The trouble is, that no matter what you do, any potential buyer won't have the same confidence as you do about whether it's a good, reliable car or not. For them, there will always be an element of risk. You may seem like an honest seller, and the car seems to be OK, but there is a small chance it could be a lemon. Therefore, to acknowledge that risk, they'll offer you less money.

So you'll never be able to sell your car for its true value. Therefore, people with good quality cars are discouraged from selling them privately, and all thats left is the crap.

I don't believbe it goes to that extreme. We know from experience that there are reliable, non-lemon second hand cars out there, being sold for reasonable prices.

-t

[irunat2am]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

Would you recommend taking it to several mechanics to make sure one of them isn't making up stuff to get more money out of you?

Probably wouldn't need more than 2. You'd get the general idea. Not a bad idea though. Good luck.