[abe]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Yes you are still paranoid, but the question really is not if you are paranoid or not, the question is, if you are paranoid enough?

Of course there are islamistic groups operating in the US and Europe, that have the goal of turning the US and Europe into islamic states and the islamic states in the arabic world into islamistic states, and the islamistic states into a caliphate...

That refreshed development restarted in the seventies after the US-alliance with extreme islamistic fundamentalism and really came into gear because of it.

What makes you paranoid though, is that you think all or at least the majority of muslims are somehow supportive of these groups, which is not the case.

Many muslims, and I do too, view these groups as being deviant and misleading despite their false posterity to represent the quranic teachings.

Besides it's the american and european politics' task to make sure that such extremistic and unconstitutional foreign groups can't operate in the US and Europe.

Taliesin

I don't think all of a majority of Western Muslims are directly supportive of the Brotherhood or the MAS. That means I don't think they all go to meetings or plot the overthrow of the government or are harboring terrorists.They wouldn't have to be. Although I do believe there are SOME who would and others who ARE doing this. But the few activists, the vanguard knows they can count on Muslim support if or when the need arose. But now is not the right time.

In suburban Rosemont, Ill., several thousand people attended MAS' annual conference in 2002 at the village's convention center. One speaker said, "We may all feel emotionally attached to the goal of an Islamic state" in America, but it would have to wait because of the modest Muslim population. "We mustn't cross hurdles we can't jump yet."

For example, how many Muslims WOULDN'T vote for Islamic politicians or ballot measures which helped further the goal of an Islamic States of America?

And this is not to say that the Muslim population here or anywhere, for that matter is monolithic and would all be of the exact same opinion. I know this is true from visiting www.Islamicaweb.com. The diversity of opinions represented there are almost as varied as they are here at MacNN. But not quite.

They pretty much all agree that Islam is the best religion to follow. And that's all well and good. But there are SOME voices of jihad and activism represented there as well. The leaders would organize and direct the the more active believers. Then, when the time came to vote or support the movement or individual, the rest of the believers would go along.

And as the above quote points out, and this nicely brings us back to the thread topic and my point.

"We may all feel emotionally attached to the goal of an Islamic state" in America, but it would have to wait because of the modest Muslim population. "We mustn't cross hurdles we can't jump yet."

Because of the modest Muslim population.

And THAT, I believe, is why Mr. Gibson says, "We need more white babies."

[abe]

MAS's Muslim Brotherhood Problem
By Daveed Gartenstein-Ross
The Weekly Standard | May 30, 2005

On May 14, 2005, PAX-TV's Faith Under Fire broadcasted a debate that I took part in against Mahdi Bray, the executive director of the Muslim American Society's (MAS) Freedom Foundation. Bray had selected the debate topic in advance, and chose to argue about "The United States of Islam?"—that is, whether American Muslims wanted to see Islamic law (sharia) implemented in the United States.

While I unwaveringly agreed that most American Muslims don't want to see the United States ruled by Islamic law, I nonetheless jumped at the chance to debate this topic against Bray. After all, the Chicago Tribune* recently published a story detailing how the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood operates in the United States as none other than MAS. So while most American Muslims don't want to see the United States governed by sharia, Bray's organization does. And while researching for the debate,

I found that MAS—except in its most public of statements—is quite open about its agenda and allegiances. Even a brief review of various MAS chapters' websites provides a revealing look at what the national organization is teaching its members.

The Muslim Brotherhood is an international Islamist group that largely operates...

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=18200

* = The Tribune article is pasted above.

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by abe

And this is not to say that the Muslim population here or anywhere, for that matter is monolithic and would all be of the exact same opinion. I know this is true from visiting www.Islamicaweb.com. The diversity of opinions represented there are almost as varied as they are here at MacNN. But not quite.

They pretty much all agree that Islam is the best religion to follow. And that's all well and good. But there are SOME voices of jihad and activism represented there as well. The leaders would organize and direct the the more active believers. Then, when the time came to vote or support the movement or individual, the rest of the believers would go along.

It would be more fitting to compare it to christianaweb or judaiaweb or something similar, but don't feel disturbed in your jihad against political Islam.

Taliesin

[abe]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

It would be more fitting to compare it to christianaweb or judaiaweb or something similar, but don't feel disturbed in your jihad against political Islam.

Taliesin

Ahhh, but it is not a jihad. I am just bringing to light the truths that have already been made public by some of the members of the MAS or the Brotherhood and/or the information that has been disseminated. The information you said in an earlier post the USA was partly responsible for producing.

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Actually the most logical solution to abe's paranoid scenario would be to expell or genocide all muslims in the US, to prohibit the islamic religion in the US and to deny any muslim of ever entering the US again.

Off topic (See, abe, now it's the right use of off, right?): What will abe do, if he gets to know that for more than twenty years, american universities, started with Reagan's order, have written, edited, produced and delivered millions of extreme islamistic jihadist-textbooks to Pakistan and Afghanistan?

Taliesin

What would I do? I would inform those who would be blind to some of these truths to the facts, subject to correction.

Are you disputing the accuracy of this information?

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by abe

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=18200

* = The Tribune article is pasted above.

Banna and Qutb, two of the most famous islamists in the islamic world, Maududi can be viewed as the third one in that row, are very fanscinating figures and their ideas are also very fascinating, though completely wrong on so many levels that it isn't funny anymore.

Now that we know that said organization is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, is islamistic orientied with Banna as their main ideological foundation, with the thinly veiled goal of turning the US into an islamistic state governed by a modernised form of sharia-law, why doesn't the US ban the organization?

Taliesin

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by TheWOAT

Some Spaniard women and women who would call themselves "Hispanic" actuall DO have blue eyes.

And some blokes might think that they're female too. Doesn't make it so.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Banna and Qutb, two of the most famous islamists in the islamic world, Maududi can be viewed as the third one in that row, are very fanscinating figures and their ideas are also very fascinating, though completely wrong on so many levels that it isn't funny anymore.

Now that we know that said organization is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, is islamistic orientied with Banna as their main ideological foundation, with the thinly veiled goal of turning the US into an islamistic state governed by a modernised form of sharia-law, why doesn't the US ban the organization?

Taliesin

I think I read the Tribune article to say, in essence, that Brotherhood leaders in Egypt understand that the MAS had to distance themselves from the Brotherhood enough to keep from being banned by the US Government.

MAS' precise connection to the Brotherhood is a sensitive issue, says Mohamed Habib, a high-ranking Brotherhood official in Cairo.

"I don't want to say MAS is an Ikhwan entity," he says. "This causes some security inconveniences for them in a post-Sept. 11 world."

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by abe

Ahhh, but it is not a jihad. I am just bringing to light the truths that have already been made public by some of the members of the MAS or the Brotherhood and/or the information that has been disseminated.

Exactly that is a jihad, and why not, I actually am impressed of your dedication and zeal in that regard, although you are mostly wrong on so many things.

Originally Posted by abe

The information you said in an earlier post the USA was partly responsible for producing.

:Confused: Could you please elaborate, I don't get it right now.

Originally Posted by abe

What would I do? I would inform those who would be blind to some of these truths to the facts, subject to correction.

Are you disputing the accuracy of this information?

Well, currently nearly the whole american society and nearly the whole western media is blind to the fact that the US has over a time-span of twenty years, beginning with Reagan, actively developing an islamistically inspired martyrhood-ideology, writing and printing schooltextbooks around it and delivering them in the millions every year until 1994 to Afghanistan and Pakistan for indoctrination of hundreds of thousands pupils in the madrassas and other schools.

So, if you are on a jihad of truth, then you have still enough to do...

Taliesin

[abe]

Originally Posted by Doofy

And some blokes might think that they're female too. Doesn't make it so.

Sorry, but I've served with blue eyed, blonde Spanish women. I knew some blue eyed, blonde Spanish women. Some blue eyed, blonde Spanish women were friends of mine. Doofy, this is no blue eyed, blonde Spanish woman.

EDIT: Parodied in honor of the famous line by Dem. VP candidate Sen. Lloyd Bentsen to Rep. VP candidate Sen. Dan Quayle in the 1988 VP Debate.

Sen. Bentsen died yesterday at the age of 85. See the lounge for the thread.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Exactly that is a jihad, and why not, I actually am impressed of your dedication and zeal in that regard, although you are mostly wrong on so many things.

So, what you are saying is that ANY endeavor can be called a jihad? Would that mean you, for example, are a jihadist? I think not.

Originally Posted by Taliesin

:Confused: Could you please elaborate, I don't get it right now.

The most recent seeds in the revival of Islamism were planted long before Reagan became President. The whole of American society, religion, government, commerce, culture recreation were seen by Qutb as offensive to Islamic sensibilities. As a high ranking member of the Brotherhood Qutb's writings and personal example served to inspire Zawahiri and OBL. His writings are part of the MAS/Brotherhood curriculum. What Reagan can be likened to casting more seeds and fertilizer out there in an existing pasture full of flowers and weeds and bushes and grasses. All of the information cited in the articles have the USA in mind either generally or specifically. We have been feeding this opposition by merely being. We have fed this opposition whether we did or didn't. I'm bringing to light the information surrounding the books you say Reagan helped disseminate, and even more than that.

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Well, currently nearly the whole american society and nearly the whole western media is blind to the fact that the US has over a time-span of twenty years, beginning with Reagan, actively developing an islamistically inspired martyrhood-ideology, writing and printing school textbooks around it and delivering them in the millions every year until 1994 to Afghanistan and Pakistan for indoctrination of hundreds of thousands pupils in the madrassas and other schools.

So, if you are on a jihad of truth, then you have still enough to do...

Taliesin

It's funny, if there were an internet chat room in the Reagan era such as there is today here on MacNN and you and I were both there at that time taking about the Reagan administration's developing and distributing books filled with "islamistically inspired martyrhood-ideology," and you were trying to tell me these books were the wrong kind of thing to be producing, I might have called YOU paranoid.

However, America's trusting nature has been taken advantage of once too many times. Look at my sig. America's trusting nature has been taken advantage of six times too many. And so now after making all of those mistakes as well as the mistake of the books as you point out, I think it's only prudent, now, to examine these things very carefully, don't you?

And that is why I am bringing these facts to my fellow Americans to consider.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by abe

So, what you are saying is that ANY endeavor can be called a jihad? Would that mean you, for example, are a jihadist? I think not.

Jihad
1. Islam. An individual's striving for spiritual self-perfection.
2. Islam. A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
3. A crusade or struggle: “The war against smoking is turning into a jihad against people who smoke”.

Under the third definition, you could easily be a "jihadist".

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by abe

However, America's trusting nature has been taken advantage of once too many times. Look at my sig. America's trusting nature has been taken advantage of six times too many. And so now after making all of those mistakes as well as the mistake of the books as you point out, I think it's only prudent, now, to examine these things very carefully, don't you?

And that is why I am bringing these facts to my fellow Americans to consider.

On behalf of all Americans, and those all over this continent who so desperately want to become Americans, I want to thank you for your tireless devotion to enlightening us to the true nature of evil in this world and what we Americans can do to fight this evil.

I don't know what we would have done without your constant vigilance and suspicion keeping us all safe in these trying times since September 11th. I have no doubt your tireless questioning of all things Muslamic has helped make us safer today. So I want to say "Thank "You". Thank you, thank you, thank you, from the bottom of our big, compassionate American heart for all that you have done for us.
</sarcasm>

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by abe

So, what you are saying is that ANY endeavor can be called a jihad? Would that mean you, for example, are a jihadist? I think not.

You think not, but you really should, cause that's what I'm saying. Any active work that has the goal of doing some good for people other than yourself and that needs a dedication of body, soul, mind, time or money or all of them together, is a jihad.

Originally Posted by abe

The most recent seeds in the revival of Islamism were planted long before Reagan became President. The whole of American society, religion, government, commerce, culture recreation were seen by Qutb as offensive to Islamic sensibilities. As a high ranking member of the Brotherhood Qutb's writings and personal example served to inspire Zawahiri and OBL. His writings are part of the MAS/Brotherhood curriculum. What Reagan can be likened to casting more seeds and fertilizer out there in an existing pasture full of flowers and weeds and bushes and grasses. All of the information cited in the articles have the USA in mind either generally or specifically. We have been feeding this opposition by merely being. We have fed this opposition whether we did or didn't. I'm bringing to light the information surrounding the books you say Reagan helped disseminate, and even more than that.

Islamism is a product of and an answer to european colonialism, and has nothing to do with the US. Qutb and others have built upon these anti-colonialism Islamism and developed further, making it even more extreme as it already was.

What the US did under Reagan up to 1994 was to take these already developed ideas and to concentrate them specifically around warfare and martyrhood, to put this concentrated ideology into easily understandable schoolbooks and to print them in millions and to deliver and give them for free to Afghanistan and Pakistan, where hundreds of thousands of pupils and student, maybe even millions were indoctrinated according to these books for the purpose of defeating the Soviet-Union.

Originally Posted by abe

It's funny, if there were an internet chat room in the Reagan era such as there is today here on MacNN and you and I were both there at that time taking about the Reagan administration's developing and distributing books filled with "islamistically inspired martyrhood-ideology," and you were trying to tell me these books were the wrong kind of thing to be producing, I might have called YOU paranoid.

Yeah, but luckily we have a time-machine, and it's now 2006, and we can see quite good in retrospect what effect that US-schooling-programm had on Afghanistan, Pakistan and a lot of other countries that have received pupils teached in those countries, and while it was good for US-coldwar interests it was disastrous for others.

Originally Posted by abe

However, America's trusting nature has been taken advantage of once too many times. Look at my sig. America's trusting nature has been taken advantage of eight too many times.

America's trusting nature? You have to be kidding.

Originally Posted by abe

And so now after making all o0f those mistakes as well as the mistake of the books as you point out, I think it's only prudent, now, to examine these things very carefully, don't you?

Indeed...

Originally Posted by abe

And that is why I am bringing these facts to my fellow Americans to consider.

I'm awaiting the day you will open a thread about it, of course not without your usual pro-US-spin to America's trusting nature...
Forget it, I will soon open one myself.

Taliesin

[abe]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Jihad
1. Islam. An individual's striving for spiritual self-perfection.
2. Islam. A Muslim holy war or spiritual struggle against infidels.
3. A crusade or struggle: “The war against smoking is turning into a jihad against people who smoke”.

Under the third definition, you could easily be a "jihadist".

And as you are continually here to help me think more thoroughly or explain more and/or better so could you be called a jihadist.

I'm thinking of the word, "Aloha."

Aloha in the Hawaiian language means affection, love, compassion, mercy, among other sentiments of a similar nature. It is used especially in Hawai'i as a greeting meaning hello and goodbye. Variations occur based on circumstances when used as a salutation. Aloha kakahiaka is the phrase for good morning. Aloha auinala is the phrase for good afternoon. Aloha ahiahi is the phrase for good evening. Aloha kakou is a common form of welcome to all. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha

And yet we know which meaning is which based on the context in which the word is used, yes?

So we return to the issue of what John Gibson meant. Is there still a question, now?

[abe]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

On behalf of all Americans, and those all over this continent who so desperately want to become Americans, I want to thank you for your tireless devotion to enlightening us to the true nature of evil in this world and what we Americans can do to fight this evil.

I don't know what we would have done without your constant vigilance and suspicion keeping us all safe in these trying times since September 11th. I have no doubt your tireless questioning of all things Muslamic has helped make us safer today. So I want to say "Thank "You". Thank you, thank you, thank you, from the bottom of our big, compassionate American heart for all that you have done for us.
</sarcasm>

There are folks on these pages who are unaware of ANY agenda by the MAS or the Brotherhood and some of these people are influencing the opinions of others.

Do I have to dig up the posts where you were advocating wide-scale death and destruction for Arab Muslims? Or should I go farther back and remind you of your posts where you were oblivious to any possible Islamic hegemonic designs on the US?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by abe

There are folks on these pages who are unaware of ANY agenda by the MAS or the Brotherhood and some of these people are influencing the opinions of others.

Do I have to dig up the posts where you were advocating wide-scale death and destruction for Arab Muslims? Or should I go farther back and remind you of your posts where you were oblivious to any possible Islamic hegemonic designs on the US?

Yes, please dig up my post where I was "advocating wide-scale death and destruction for Arab Muslims". You will find I was advocating such an action for those Arab Muslims who initiated a nuclear attack on the United States (i.e.: Iran or al Qaeda) not just any old Arab Muslim. And it was only in that specific circumstance where I was advocating such a massive wholesale attack on a general group of Arabs. But please, feel free to continue to suggest I harbor animosity to Muslims in general. I find it quite comical.

[abe]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Yes, please dig up my post where I was "advocating wide-scale death and destruction for Arab Muslims". You will find I was advocating such an action for those Arab Muslims who initiated a nuclear attack on the United States (i.e.: Iran or al Qaeda) not just any old Arab Muslim. And it was only in that specific circumstance where I was advocating such a massive wholesale attack on a general group of Arabs. But please, feel free to continue to suggest I harbor animosity to Muslims in general. I find it quite comical.

So, are you going to heed John Gibson's call to produce more white babies?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by abe

So, are you going to heed John Gibson's call to produce more white babies?

Produce babies? Probably. Produce more babies? No.
I don't fear for a "lost way of life" if whites become a minority in the United States.

[abe]

Bump

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

I don't fear for a "lost way of life" if [non-Muslim] whites become a minority in the United States.

Quoted for emphasis.

[besson3c]

The sacred white way of life... I'm scared!


You throw everybody into the same pot, the ingredients mesh, you end up with something new. America will always have a flavor of its own in comparison to "purebreds". I'm not understanding this issue.

[abe]

Originally Posted by besson3c

The sacred white way of life... I'm scared!


You throw everybody into the same pot, the ingredients mesh, you end up with something new. America will always have a flavor of its own in comparison to "purebreds". I'm not understanding this issue.

This piece nicely frames and explores the reason why it might matter. If you care about what becomes of the UK, the EU, or the USA AFTER you die, then you should know that as it stands now, birthrates will make each of these entities predominantly Muslim in a generation or two.

Will they prefer Sharia Law over the existing forms of government?

If you don't care about what happens after you die then it doesn't matter.

You'll pardon the name of the article. It's nothing personal against any of the individual readers here, but it speaks to most of us and particularly to young liberals.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007760