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Cody Dawg · Aug 10, 2005, 09:20 PM

Well, what's your answer?

Do you think that he lies to cover up the decisions that he himself makes or is he lying for the entire administration?

This country is in really bad shape.

Soon a gallon of gas will be $5 a gallon.

What in the heck is going to happen to this country when that happens?

What is Bush doing about it? Answer: Nothing.

He doesn't give a damn. Why? Because he's cleaning up.

It's no surprise that oil is now going up and up and up...he and his crony, "Dick" Cheney, and making millions. Make no mistake about that.

And the oil issue is just the tip of the iceberg, believe me.

budster101 · 09:37 PM

Feel better?

This isn't one of them there 'bait' threads now would it?...

I'll bite:

What is wrong again with the Country? Can you give me an itemized list please, so instead of responding to a blanket statement such as yours, it can be disected, masticated, and desicated.

What has he "lied" about?

Curious. This is going to be a long thread, I can just see it... page 12 comes along.

someone: "Oh yeah! Well all of Canada is gay!!"
someone2: "American Rocks, you idiot"
someone3: "someone2 is an idiot"
someone: "Oh yeah! Well Bush Lied and people died!"
someone2: "Who am I again?"
someone3: "you are the idiot, and this thread is gay!"

----

Of course, I could be wrong, it could descend into utter (kaos) well before that.

Cody Dawg · Aug 10, 2005, 09:32 PM

You're always so funny!

TETENAL · Aug 10, 2005, 09:37 PM

Bush has a strategy to address the oil issue. It's just more long term than you think.

budster101 · Aug 10, 2005, 10:03 PM

I have to say, the only thing bugging me is the gas situation. It's hard for us to afford $2.50 per gallon driving the distance we have to every day. Granted we have one care and it's a chevy but it's hurting us.

I hope that gets fixed up soon.... or we are looking at a Hybrid seriously.... even sooner.

Cody Dawg · Aug 10, 2005, 11:01 PM

Bush has a strategy to address the oil issue. It's just more long term than you think.

What a crock of crap. You really believe that?

Wow!

Let me say something: I have some REALLY nice waterfront property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

His "strategy" is to skim as much as possible in profits off of skyrocketing oil prices/futures.

chabig · Aug 10, 2005, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

His "strategy" is to skim as much as possible in profits off of skyrocketing oil prices/futures.

budster101 · Aug 10, 2005, 11:17 PM

Come on Cody. During Carter and the oil problems, was he doing that? No.

Cody Dawg · Aug 10, 2005, 11:41 PM

Carter? What does 30 years ago have to do with now?

SimpleLife · Aug 10, 2005, 11:47 PM

"we must stay the course"

"4 more years"

BRussell · Aug 11, 2005, 12:00 AM

Bush is lying about... gas is expensive... whaaa? There's enough dishonesty in this administration, but gas prices?

I heard him give a little speech today when he signed the 286 billion highway bill and he actually said (paraphrase) "we're being fiscally responsible, we're not raising taxes to pay for this." So he's spending way too much money on pork, he's not paying for it, AND he's being fiscally responsible all at the same time! Now that's dishonesty.

budster101 · Aug 11, 2005, 12:06 AM

Just wait until we get all that OIL from Iraq....

Hawkeye_a · Aug 11, 2005, 12:35 AM

ugh...not another bush thread.

besson3c · Aug 11, 2005, 12:41 AM

Some of the latest rationale for the Iraq war seems to be the idea that in the long run, Iraq is going to be great, and the world is going to be better off because of it...

In the long run, Saddam Hussein would have been dead anyway, or overthrown, or his successor overthrown... dynasties don't last forever. If the long run is a concern to us, why are we letting the leader of Iraq (can't remember if he is a president or prime minister) continue to allow mistreatment of women?

I'm sure the usual suspects will have an answer about how Iraq has to form their own government that is not influenced by our ideology.. fair enough. I'm just having a hard time understanding what we stand to gain in the "long run", and how this justifies the lives that have been lost, and the problems in the short term.

Re: the energy bill... tax breaks to the energy companies sounds like "trickle down" economics. How well did this work for Reagan? I get the sense from both the right and the left that the answer is "not so great".

Before you pigeon-hole me and unleash your anti-liberal fury on me, let me say that I try very hard not to be unconditionally partisan, I try to look at everything critically with as much perspective as I can. This may sound like an unfocussed rant, but more than anything it is genuine confusion on my part.

besson3c · Aug 11, 2005, 12:46 AM

Re: the energy bill.. our current energy companies don't need more money, innovative and companies with the means to provide us with alternate fuel sources need the money. People who buy hybrid vehicles need tax breaks. Car companies that develop cars with excellent economy need tax breaks, or funding, or something...

I just wish our government was far more aggressive about getting these alternative fuel sources to the mass-market. I'm sick of burning gas, and I'm sick of feeling like a guilty consumer.

Hawkeye_a · Aug 11, 2005, 02:28 AM

Thats why i beleive the best kind of reform comes from within a country, as opposed to some foreign 'liberator'/'conquerer'. I think its very juvenile to assume that conqueres have the best interests of people they are conquering in mind. There's always a hidden agenda.... power/influence, natural resources(as in the case of Iraq), labour, etc. Obviously the excuses/reasons used are different, and usually bogus in EVERY case where u have a nation invading another. Thats just from my general observations.

Atomic Rooster · Aug 11, 2005, 02:52 AM

I always wondered how Bush manage to morph Osama bin Laden into Saddam Hussein and get intelligent people to fall for it.

As for oil, with China wanting it, the oil companies can charge pretty well what thy want.

When you play around in the middle east oil companies will play. Couldn't anyone see this.

Americans still pay less for gas than any other country and comparing it to 1970's dollars you're paying less for gas than you were 30 years ago.

Expect 5.00$ per gallon by next summer.

I dunno bout the deficit tho...think grand canyon filled with hundred dollar bills and that's what the U.S. debt will be to the world banks.

Maybe if the U.S. used it's hard earned tax dollars in their own country instead of on the other side of the world...

Doofy · Aug 11, 2005, 05:27 AM

Oh please. I wish our gas was as cheap as $5 a gallon.

himself · Aug 11, 2005, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

I always wondered how Bush manage to morph Osama bin Laden into Saddam Hussein and get intelligent people to fall for it.

As for oil, with China wanting it, the oil companies can charge pretty well what thy want.

When you play around in the middle east oil companies will play. Couldn't anyone see this.

Americans still pay less for gas than any other country and comparing it to 1970's dollars you're paying less for gas than you were 30 years ago.

Expect 5.00$ per gallon by next summer.

I dunno bout the deficit tho...think grand canyon filled with hundred dollar bills and that's what the U.S. debt will be to the world banks.

Maybe if the U.S. used it's hard earned tax dollars in their own country instead of on the other side of the world...

I agree. Gas prices will continue to rise and there is nothing we can really do about it. 9/11, the current instability in the middle east, and the increasing oil consumption in China and India means that we don't get favored status among the oil producers anymore. As it is, the rest of the world subsidizes our oil addiction, so everyone else is used to high gas prices. Now it looks like the playing field is about to level (more or less).

As far as I'm concerned though, gasoline should be $10.00 a gallon, or more. Just think of the choices it would force us to make:

•Less inclined to drive two blocks to the convenience store, and instead get out and walk or ride a bike - more exercise, healthier citizens

•More use of public transit systems, alternative transportation services, or carpooling, leading to less traffic congestion and a shift away from a car-oriented society

•Fewer automobile related fatalities, which have been rising dramatically in recent years

•Lower air pollution leading to cleaner water and cleaner air, which will affect the growing rate of childhood and adult respiratory diseases and possibly slow down global warming (if it isn't already too late)

•More incentive for innovation in inexpensive, renewable alternative fuel sources

•Overall better planning and responsibility around travel and fuel use

Of course, this will give the rich an advantage here, but they will always have some sort of advantage. Individuals and businesses that rely heavily on travel will have to adjust their expenses accordingly or adapt in a more creative manner, but everything is a trade-off.

Either way, G. Dub and his buddies will clean up, but higher gas prices may do more to hurt them than trying to keep them low.

himself · Aug 11, 2005, 05:33 AM

Oh, yeah...

In response to the original question: G. Dub is such a liar because he wouldn't be able to get anyone to vote for him if told the truth...

Y3a · Aug 11, 2005, 07:24 AM

<< I have to say, the only thing bugging me is the gas situation. It's hard for us to afford $2.50 per gallon driving the distance we have to every day. Granted we have one care and it's a chevy but it's hurting us. >>

GO complain to the tree huggers who've been holding up the drilling for oil in Alaska. Unless the ignorant tree hugger types can REALLY SHOW a better way they should stay home and get an education.

Y3a · Aug 11, 2005, 07:25 AM

The worst, most obvious LIAR IN DC is the democratic minority leader.

Y3a · Aug 11, 2005, 07:38 AM

<< t's no surprise that oil is now going up and up and up...he and his crony, "Dick" Cheney, and making millions. Make no mistake about that. >>

How could he since he was forced to divest himself of all energy holdings BEFORE becoming VP???

You sure are tricked easily!

ebuddy · Aug 11, 2005, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Well, what's your answer?

Do you think that he lies to cover up the decisions that he himself makes or is he lying for the entire administration?

This country is in really bad shape.

Soon a gallon of gas will be $5 a gallon.

What in the heck is going to happen to this country when that happens?

What is Bush doing about it? Answer: Nothing.

He doesn't give a damn. Why? Because he's cleaning up.

It's no surprise that oil is now going up and up and up...he and his crony, "Dick" Cheney, and making millions. Make no mistake about that.

And the oil issue is just the tip of the iceberg, believe me.

Well, the high prices of gas have not slowed SUV sales and they haven't even as yet caused so much as a hiccup in our consumption. I'd say if Americans WANT to pay $5.00/gallon, they will. The market will decide the price of gas. The entire world is feeling a crunch right now, not just the U.S. Is it everyone's fault? Which system is working best for the preservation of natural resources, are the other 99.9% of their policies as livable as ours?

Statements like; "he and his crony Dick Cheney" are just excruciating. It's right out of the michael moore book of unsubstantiated vitriol. Please cite some examples of the lies and cite examples of profiteering. How much did Bush make personally? How much has Cheney earned personally from skimming off the top? Then, what is your solution for decreasing oil costs and as President, how would YOU begin to solve the problem?

Mark Larr · Aug 11, 2005, 08:37 AM

Aren't we STEALING the oil?

If so, where is mine?

Millennium · Aug 11, 2005, 09:15 AM

I find it interesting that you call him a liar, yet don't mention any lies that he's told. Whether or not he's a liar is debatable, but most people who accuse this at least have something specific in mind.

As for the price of oil going up to $5/gallon; I don't think it's going to get that high that quickly. It probably will eventually, of course, but by that time I don't know if it will matter as much. Hybrids are skyrocketing in popularity, hydrogen and natural gas are finally on this side of the horizon, . Transit systems aren't going to increase in popularity all that much; aside from scalability issues, most Americans who don't use transit already dislike the thought of being dependent on others for transportation, and I can't say I disagree with that sentiment.

osiris · Aug 11, 2005, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Larr

Aren't we STEALING the oil?

I guess that's why the oil companies are enjoying record profits!

Hawkeye_a · Aug 11, 2005, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Mark Larr

Aren't we STEALING the oil?

Well thats just half the scam. Big Oil and texans steel the oil...and THEN they sell it to you for record high prices. Who benefits ? The one who lied inorder to use you to steal the oil.

Y3a · Aug 11, 2005, 11:02 AM

<< Big Oil and texans >>

name NAMES!!

Use FACTS! Your claim is mere urban ledgend.

Mark Larr · Aug 11, 2005, 11:17 AM

I waiting on where we are stealing the oil from since we buy most of it from canandinanda and south america.

Does OPEC know about this "stealing"?

budster101 · Aug 11, 2005, 11:23 AM

This whole thread is weird. Is it bait? ...

Mark Larr · Aug 11, 2005, 12:46 PM

I dunno, but I've been keeping my "stolen oil" in mason jars buried in my back yard.

budster101 · Aug 11, 2005, 01:11 PM

I've got mine in giant barrels. You think anyone will notice? They ain't burried.

Zenbone · Aug 11, 2005, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

And the oil issue is just the tip of the iceberg, believe me.

What else do you think he's lied about?

budster101 · Aug 11, 2005, 01:46 PM

Paging Cody. Cody Dawg.

ThinkInsane · Aug 11, 2005, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Well, what's your answer?

Do you think that he lies to cover up the decisions that he himself makes or is he lying for the entire administration?

I think he lies the same way any world leader lies. It's the old joke: How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips move.

This country is in really bad shape.

Although we aren't in the best shape we've even been in, I think "really bad shape" is an exaggeration.

Soon a gallon of gas will be $5 a gallon.

Again, I think a bit of an exaggeration. I wouldn't be surprised to see it hit $3 and maybe a bit higher, but I have a hard time picturing it at $5.

What in the heck is going to happen to this country when that happens?

I think Thomas Friedman hit the nail right on the head: It'll be the best thing to ever happen to this country because it will force us to develop alternate fuels and break our dependance on oil, specifically foreign oil, once and for all.

What is Bush doing about it? Answer: Nothing.

I don't know what he's doing about it. you may well be right in your answer. And given what I posted above, part of me hopes that's the case.

He doesn't give a damn. Why? Because he's cleaning up.

What exactly is he cleaning up? "He doesn't give a damn" is rather subjective. Care to support that statement?

It's no surprise that oil is now going up and up and up...he and his crony, "Dick" Cheney, and making millions. Make no mistake about that.

Again, is there anything to support this? All their revenue is subject to public disclosure I believe. Do you have anything to support that they are making millions off the current situation?

And the oil issue is just the tip of the iceberg, believe me.

That may very well be true, all though I'm still not certain what the oil issue is.

Really? I hadn't noticed

Cody Dawg · Aug 11, 2005, 02:13 PM

QUOTE OF THE DAY:

ThinkInsane
I think he lies the same way any world leader lies. It's the old joke: How do you know when a politician is lying? His lips move.

ThinkInsane: Ever consider self-publishing a book of quotes? I'd be first in line for a book of "ThinkInsane-isms"!

sek929 · Aug 11, 2005, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

I think Thomas Friedman hit the nail right on the head: It'll be the best thing to ever happen to this country because it will force us to develop alternate fuels and break our dependance on oil, specifically foreign oil, once and for all

I think is just about the most ass-backwards way to do it. How does the indusry run that develops these alternative fuels (and their subsequent infrastructure)? Oil, that whats creates about 70% of all our energy here in America, nevermind the trucks to move said parts of infrastructure around.

If anything we should have dropped oil for more abundant ::cough::SOLAR!::cough:: energy means a LOOONG time ago.

budster101 · Aug 11, 2005, 03:37 PM

Very true. But, wouldn't that be like the current phone companies going to VOIP?

What would they do to their infrustructure they've invested billions in?
How do they explain that to their stockholders?

I'd love to go all SOLAR!
Off the grid, and free from OIL....

Cool by me.

loki74 · Aug 11, 2005, 03:42 PM

I think the oil thingy is more like this:

There is supply and demand curves, the price of gas is where these curves cross.

Growing economies (namely China) raise the demand curve up a notch.

OPEC does not raised the supply curve.

Therefore, because only supply shifted, the intersection of those two lines (the price) goes up.

BLAME OPEC!!! Its their fault!

PS Solar would be cool. What about cars though? I like gas myself, but if you could get me the same power (and style!!) out of hydrogen or electricity, then hey I'm cool.

sek929 · Aug 11, 2005, 03:43 PM

I'm just saying the costs of changing over with double and triple with that of rising gas prices.

My dad has an "in" with a Maine-based solar company. We installed a system on a big roof (all tubular, hot water+electricity) and even on an overcast day the meter spins backwards. That company also gaurantees the panles (tubes really) for 50 years, but the tech is so new that they really have no idea how long they will last, the maine guy says 100 years is not out of the question...****, even gas burning plants don't last that long.

Multiply that power by the amount of flat surfaces we have created with all our buildings, and wham-o, lots of energy thanks to the big fusion reactor in the sky.

As for cars those gas/elec. hybrids are pretty sweet, def a step in the right direction, electricity powered cars just aren't feasable right now. Besides lacking infrastructure burning Hydrogen (in a normal combustion engine) seems plausable, I also heard of a company that invented a solid material that holds Hydrogen in a tank and keeps it bound even if the tank is ruptured.

budster101 · Aug 11, 2005, 04:00 PM

Put it this way:

If we can power our homes on SOLAR and Hydro-Electric and Wind combonations to get off of the Grid, or at least take oil out of that equation of producing electricity, then we can concentrate on alternative fuels for cars, such as electric, and hybrid while saving money on the oil.

Does that sound reasonable?

sek929 · Aug 11, 2005, 04:11 PM

Indeed. I find no need for the grid to be supplied by oil burning plants. If every house in the country had a small solar panel (not even an array) I'm sure the strain taken off the system would be IMMENSE.

If we cut that out then the consumption would be cut down greatly, gas gets cheaper again, then its cheaper to develop new fuels. I just find it silly to leave our roofs empty while they collect a sh!tload of energy from the sun (I work on roofs often, sometimes it gets to 130 degrees up there). I mean seriously, the roofs themselves are practically powerplants anyways, you got the heat, now you just need to use it.

Hybrid is THE thing to get right now. All the tourque you need right at 1 RPM, then once the power of the elec. motor is played out the gas engine kicks in to help. There are even tuner companies boasting Priuses with tons of power, they even made a 400HP Dodge Charge concept a few years back than ran on hydrogen.

ThinkInsane · Aug 11, 2005, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

I think is just about the most ass-backwards way to do it. How does the indusry run that develops these alternative fuels (and their subsequent infrastructure)? Oil, that whats creates about 70% of all our energy here in America, nevermind the trucks to move said parts of infrastructure around.

If anything we should have dropped oil for more abundant ::cough::SOLAR!::cough:: energy means a LOOONG time ago.

That fact that it should have been done so long ago and wasn’t proves that it will take something like exorbitant gas prices to help us innovate new ways to produce energy. If common sense won’t bring about change, desperation certainly will, and the long-term benefits will far out weight the short term costs.

BRussell · Aug 11, 2005, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

That fact that it should have been done so long ago and wasn’t proves that it will take something like exorbitant gas prices to help us innovate new ways to produce energy. If common sense won’t bring about change, desperation certainly will, and the long-term benefits will far out weight the short term costs.

I dunno, it seems backwards to me too. The reason we need to get off oil is so we don't get caught with our pants down when we run into oil supply problems. You're saying we should get caught with our pants down so that we get off of oil. Isn't that closing the barn door after the horse is gone, so to speak?

sek929 · Aug 11, 2005, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

I dunno, it seems backwards to me too. The reason we need to get off oil is so we don't get caught with our pants down when we run into oil supply problems. You're saying we should get caught with our pants down so that we get off of oil. Isn't that closing the barn door after the horse is gone, so to speak?

Exactly, but don't tell this to the Germans, they are buying every available solar idea on Earth, and have been for years. See, they don't have a massive army budget that can secure oil fields for them, they to be ahead of the curve on this one. And they suuuure are.

ThinkInsane · Aug 11, 2005, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

I dunno, it seems backwards to me too. The reason we need to get off oil is so we don't get caught with our pants down when we run into oil supply problems. You're saying we should get caught with our pants down so that we get off of oil. Isn't that closing the barn door after the horse is gone, so to speak?

I'm not saying that we should get caught with our pants down, I'm saying that getting caught with our pants down seems to be the only way we will dedicate resources to finding a way to break our reliance on foreign oil. And it seems that we are getting caught with our pants down, or at the very least on the verge of it. We can continue going on business as usual with gas prices as they are, or we can see the writing on the wall, that gas prices are going to continue to climb, and be forced by absolute need to break the cycle we've been in for far too long.

I will gladly concede that it's backwards. This is something that if it'd been addressed in the 70's, we'd probably be in a far different (and probably preferable) situation than where we find ourselves today. We don't have the benefit of a time machine to go back and fix the problem which hindsight so clearly shows, nor do we seem to have the inclination to address the problem effectively before it reaches crisis proportions. But the plus side to a crisis is that it forces action. If nothing else will, lets hurry up and get it over with so I can have cheap, clean, efficient fuel and power.

moodymonster · Aug 11, 2005, 07:05 PM

If you look at Europe, they're moving big time into renewable energy - I think Denmark is 20% wind power and sells surplus to other countries. The oil will run out, the time for solving what we will do when that happens is now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm

Bush has never lied. The facts just change from time to time to suit the administration's agenda.

besson3c · Aug 11, 2005, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Y3a

<< I have to say, the only thing bugging me is the gas situation. It's hard for us to afford $2.50 per gallon driving the distance we have to every day. Granted we have one care and it's a chevy but it's hurting us. >>

GO complain to the tree huggers who've been holding up the drilling for oil in Alaska. Unless the ignorant tree hugger types can REALLY SHOW a better way they should stay home and get an education.

Wow.. nice opening post to this thread: pure unfocussed rage.

"tree huggers" aren't the only people opposed to drilling in Alaska. Not all people you might put under the umbrella of "tree huggers" lack an education either. Many are quite bright. You are using a very large brush here, and just needlessly provoking people.

Drilling in Alaska will take several years before we can benefit. Some of the people against drilling in Alaska would rather us take that money and put it into coming up with alternatives. In a way, it's kind of like investing in IBM 386 computers...

besson3c · Aug 11, 2005, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Y3a

The worst, most obvious LIAR IN DC is the democratic minority leader.

I know the original poster didn't list reasons why he/she thinks that Bush is a liar, but this is just more flamebait. Would you kindly cut it out?