[tooki]

Originally Posted by SimpleLife

If I may ask, how was it stressful for you?

Thinking that you have plans for the night, when in fact you don't, is stressful.

Not knowing whether you will make it to a club before the cover charge doubles is stressful.

Not knowing how long I'll have to wait is stressful.

Etc, etc, etc.

Others have summed it up more succinctly than I.

tooki

[Athens]

It depends on #1 how much demand you put on a person to be on time and #2 your understanding of there life.

Case in point I have a VERY demanding BF, and for the most part im reliable for him 90% of the time. 90% of the time he forgets that and focuses on the 10% that I am not.

Currently for example when I leave work at 7am in the morning I have to rush 30km away to pick him up, and drive him 15km to his work then drive 35km home, sleep for 5 hours and then drive 35km back to pick him up and 15km to his house then 25km back home again to try and get more sleep. This all after a graveyard shift. Now between all that there is heavy traffic in the morning and afternoon rush hours and I cant control co workers being late for me which makes it hard for me to get out on time. When I think about it 90% of the time I have not been reliable for him its been because other people have made me late.

Tooki answer to your post is simple

Thinking that you have plans for the night, when in fact you don't, is stressful.

Of course you still have plans, you just adabt your plans go with some one else, go alone you dont have to cancel. Set a time and go, call and say im leaving meet me at XYZ if you are showing up.

Not knowing whether you will make it to a club before the cover charge doubles is stressful.

Again you can change that by making your own way down and letting the unreliable friend pay the double charge

Not knowing how long I'll have to wait is stressful.

You have the power not to wait.

[OreoCookie]

Wow, Athen's, that's really demanding. I hope he doesn't take that for granted.

[Randman]

Athens, sounds like you should think about upgrading. Either your car or your BF.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Wow, Athen's, that's really demanding. I hope he doesn't take that for granted.

Feels Like it a lot of the time.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Randman

Athens, sounds like you should think about upgrading. Either your car or your BF.

how would upgrading my car help?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Athens

Feels Like it a lot of the time.

I hope for you you're getting a lot in return.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I hope for you you're getting a lot in return.

.. ..

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by tooki

Thinking that you have plans for the night, when in fact you don't, is stressful.

Not knowing whether you will make it to a club before the cover charge doubles is stressful.

Not knowing how long I'll have to wait is stressful.

Etc, etc, etc.

Others have summed it up more succinctly than I.

tooki

I understand. Athens did put it nicely as well.

One thing I got to understand at this time is that I have not many friends at all, and those I have, I am not very good at keeping. I have travelled so much and moved around as well about 40 times in 40 years. Got no roots but manage to meet previous acquaintances and some new ones but in difficult contexts. So my expectations are very low from anyone, yet sometimes unfair.

A friend of mine of a few years ago told me to appreciate people for their limits.

So in some cases, if you can afford it, you can get rid of anyone who does not fit the set of criteria you set forth. On the other hand, some may not be able to afford that, so the expectations will be much lower. The good balance or compromise, in my mind, is that some people you know what to expect from them; some are good drinking buddies, but you should never wait for them, others are the worst confidents, but they stuck to you like flies on honey. In between there is reality. We can appreciate people for what they provide that suit us. Anything else, unless painful, we should either discard, disregard or use as the final criteria to eradicate that relationship from our lives.

It turns to be a very personal choice.

But I no longer stress myself for anyone. Not worth it one bit; you show up; fine. You don't, see you later if I am still there then.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by Athens

Currently for example when I leave work at 7am in the morning I have to rush 30km away to pick him up, and drive him 15km to his work then drive 35km home, sleep for 5 hours and then drive 35km back to pick him up and 15km to his house then 25km back home again to try and get more sleep. This all after a graveyard shift. Now between all that there is heavy traffic in the morning and afternoon rush hours and I cant control co workers being late for me which makes it hard for me to get out on time. When I think about it 90% of the time I have not been reliable for him its been because other people have made me late.

I hope this relationship has some redeeming qualities, because this assessment is far from positive. The way you describe it, this situation does not sit well with you. Is this how you envisioned your life, or is this what you have allowed it to become?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Athens

.. ..

Uh, oh. Sounds like unrequited love, a seesaw which is constantly out of balance. I'd be really careful where you're going with this.

[budster101]

...... double-fricking-post.

[budster101]

What gets me is this:

I have my inlaws and their son right?
Well, when anything happens and they need anything, they can call us, but it seems we cannot call them for anything? They are not reliable.

(i.e., I ran out of gas on the expressway, and I had nobody to call to help. My *wife ended up calling her best friend who had one of her sons drive out with some gas for me....) Unlike my Father-in-Law, the kid never even asked for money for gas, and showed up in like 15 minutes from being called by his mom... if it were my Father-in-law, that moron would have taken his time, then I would have had to pay him back the $5 or $10. Those people have NEVER picked up dinner, it's allways dutch treat when we go out.)

Rant over. Talk about FRIENDs, when 'family' is bad enough...


Don't get me started on all the free work I did for this idiot's campaign (Graphics etc...)
This is going to be another thread in the Art & Graphic Forum I think... working cheap!

*We only have one car and my wife had driven it all day doing chores but left me with vapor in the tank by mistake. (OK, she hates filling the tank so I have to do it all the time.)

[Athens]

I dont really have a family, my best friends have come through for me more then my family. And Oreo its 2.5 years of work in progress hehe I dont give up easy.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Athens

I dont really have a family, my best friends have come through for me more then my family. And Oreo its 2.5 years of work in progress hehe I dont give up easy.

I gave up after 4.5 years. Not giving up easily doesn't cut it if there's too little effort from the other side. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to take away your hope, it's one of the most important emotions you have, just think about what you have now and what you want. Take the courage to demand what you need to even up the balance.

[Gamoe]

starman,

I, like most of my friends, am not the punctual type for social functions. As mentioned here, in Latin-American culture you're expected to run slower. In fact, in traditional Cuban culture it's considered rude to come to another's house at the exact time agreed upon. You'd be safer arriving at least 15-30 mins after said time. Likewise, I don't expect punctuality from my friends. We usually end up doing things an hour after we agreed on. And we all know this. Not that we actually plan it out that way, it's just the way it is. That's why we plan things an hour earlier, though that doesn't always work out either. So, I'm not big on that aspect.

What the issue boils down to, in my opinion, is consideration and communication, which go hand in hand. I can sympathize with your, tooki's and others' frustrations here, because I have also experienced them. I have gotten very frustrated when I make plans, and I build my day or night around them, even declining other invitations because of them, only to have plans fall apart at the last hour because the other person didn't communicate with me. And it's tough to come up with something to do at 10 PM on a weekend night. And then you become very frustrated and disappointed when you wind up not doing anything.

Things happen, and plans change and get cancelled. But, to me a considerate friend will try to keep his plans, and not put any later plans before you (unless unavoidable, because of other circumstances-- it's business, something else is on the line, etc.), and a considerate friend will communicate any changes in plans as soon as reasonably possible. This is all I ask, and even this (the latter) my friends seem incapable of doing sometimes.

I disagree with a black and white approach, though. Human relationships are more complex than that. For example, you might have a friend who is very unreliable when it comes to being on time (and communicating), is an honorable person who really considers you a friend, and maybe reliable in other ways. I have friends who don't mean to be inconsiderate, but they are (even more than I) very absent-minded, and they lose all track of time. But, they are good people, and I wouldn't end our friendship based solely on that.

You can't treat all your friends the same. People are different, and you need to know how to treat each person. I think the key lies in what you expect. If you have a friend who is always late, then don't expect him to ever be on time. When you change or eliminate your expectations, you eliminate disappointment and stress. Tell your friend to be there an hour or two earlier. And don't expect him to show up. If he does, it's a pleasant surprise. If your friend happens to comes see you to go out, welcome it, and take it as it is, if you can.

And if you just can't make any kind of reliable plans with your friend, then do not. If you still think your friendship is worthwhile, then continue it, but eliminate that expectation of your friend. Make plans with other people, and invite your friend. If your friend comes great, if not, well then you didn't expect it anyway (much like Ebenezer Scrooge's nephew always invited Scrooge to Christmas dinner, though with no expectation that he would come-- until one day-- well he actually came.)

So analyze your relationship with your friends, individually. If you think that they are still worthwhile people to be friends with, then continue the friendships, but alter your own behavior towards them (because it is clear that they are incapable of altering their own behavior!) and eliminate the expectations that are frustrating you. If you think that they are, at heart, not really worthy of your friendship, then be done with them. It is better to be alone than in bad company. Some people it is better not to associate with, for one's own health, and others it is better to change one's expectations of. This has been my experience.

Also consider that there may be a difference of perception on your relationship. You may see someone as a good friend while the other person sees you more as an acquaintance, or something else. If this is the case, then you must adapt your view of the other person as well.