[Gee4orce]

Read some of the feedback on the CNet review of the iBook:

Go Here

Not only do people love the iBook, but it seems to be winning Apple over a lot of Wintel users - for the first time they are taking a look at apps like iMovie, iTunes and the Mac OS (9 and X) and they like what they see.

I'm one of those "mutants". The new iBook is, by far, the best notebook in its price range. Getting used to MacOS 9.1 and X is no easy task, though. Some of MacOS 9's features still puzzle me (file type associations, (lack of) file extensions, cumbersome file management), but I like my iBook so far.

[milhaus]

Two converts in my extended family, and it's been what, a month?
M.

[sessamoid]

I too am one of those who bought an ibook as a first Mac, thought it's not my first Apple computer. I had an Apple II+ a very long time ago, and it was a great hacker's machine.

Mixed review so far from me. The hardware is outstanding. No question about that, especially for the price range.

Getting used to OS9.x is tough. Even on a notebook I miss the true multitasking since I come from a Win2k machine on the desktop. It's also considerably crashier than my win2k box, which I can't even remember the last time I rebooted. The ibook I just rebooted due to a hard lockup after installing a calculator program and trying to run it. I hate having to turn it over and remove the battery to reset the thing.
Maybe it's just that I haven't gotten used to it yet, but disk/file navigation on OS9.x seems really slow and clunky to me. Keyboard navigation baffles me. How do I open a folder/file from the keyboard in the finder? In windows I just select the object with the arrow keys, and press return when I get the one I want.

Pressing a letter key seems to move to the first item that starts with that letter, but that's the end of the road. On my win2k box, pressing the same letter key scrolls me through the whole list of things that begin with that letter in alphabetical order, which makes digging through file and folder lists much faster.

OSX is reasonably stable, but dog slow. Classic is almost unusably slow, especially boot up time. Plus, let the ibook go to sleep when classic is running and you've got another hard lockup. I've made that mistake 3 times so far, only the last time did I know what the problem was.

That said, OSX is visually absolutely gorgeous and has the guts to become as stable as win2k or the unix core it uses. The dock still needs some work though. For the amount of space it uses and the functionality it provides, it's still inferior to the windows taskbar/start button combo.

Despite my reservations, I'm still greatly looking forward to how well this thing develops as time progresses. OS X has so far been a fairly reasonable "point-oh" release for a new operating system, about as buggy as expected. Slower than I had hoped, but there's time for that too.

[bloodbeard]

I too am one of those who bought an ibook as a first Mac, thought it's not my first Apple computer. I had an Apple II+ a very long time ago, and it was a great hacker's machine.

Congratulations!

Getting used to OS9.x is tough. Even on a notebook I miss the true multitasking since I come from a Win2k machine on the desktop. It's also considerably crashier than my win2k box, which I can't even remember the last time I rebooted. The ibook I just rebooted due to a hard lockup after installing a calculator program and trying to run it. I hate having to turn it over and remove the battery to reset the thing.
Maybe it's just that I haven't gotten used to it yet, but disk/file navigation on OS9.x seems really slow and clunky to me. Keyboard navigation baffles me. How do I open a folder/file from the keyboard in the finder? In windows I just select the object with the arrow keys, and press return when I get the one I want.

Do you know how to force quit applications in both Mac OS 9 and X? Use apple-option-esc and then click on force quit. That will keep you from some crashes. And as far as being so locked you have to take the battery out, there are other alternatives. You could use apple-option and the power key to reboot, or push the tiny reset button above the AV port/ headphone jack.
As far as file navigation, you can still use the arrow keys. To open an item, push apple and the down arrow. To cycle back windows (basically in OS 9), push apple and the up arrow key. I hope this helps navigation

Pressing a letter key seems to move to the first item that starts with that letter, but that's the end of the road. On my win2k box, pressing the same letter key scrolls me through the whole list of things that begin with that letter in alphabetical order, which makes digging through file and folder lists much faster.

Try typing the name of what you want to appear. Example: At the root level, you have a 'System' folder, which is OSX, and a 'System Folder' folder, which is OS 9. To pull up the System Folder, you'd type S-Y-S-T-E-M-F and then it would go to it.

-snip-

Despite my reservations, I'm still greatly looking forward to how well this thing develops as time progresses. OS X has so far been a fairly reasonable "point-oh" release for a new operating system, about as buggy as expected. Slower than I had hoped, but there's time for that too.

Hope things go well for you!

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: bloodbeard ]

[oranjdisc]

Don't concern yourself with the finder / file navigation feeling "clunky" or cumbersome. It's all a matter of learning how Mac OS works compared to Windows. Once you get used to it, you'll be flying. I know I was. Took about 2 weeks for me to feel "comfortable" with what was in front of me, and since then I haven't looked back. All in good time...

[pead]

Originally posted by sessamoid:
<STRONG>I too am one of those who bought an ibook as a first Mac,

Maybe it's just that I haven't gotten used to it yet, but disk/file navigation on OS9.x seems really slow and clunky to me. Keyboard navigation baffles me. How do I open a folder/file from the keyboard in the finder? In windows I just select the object with the arrow keys, and press return when I get the one I want.
</STRONG>

I've used Macs for so long, I guess I am mousecentric as I practically never use just a keyboard for this stuff, but ...

Use the trackpad to pulldown the apps menu or click on the desktop to designate Finder, then use the arrow keys to move/toggle to the HD/partition/folder/file of your choice, then command-O to open the folder/file, command-W to close a folder/file.

[molala]

Keyboard navigation baffles me. How do I open a folder/file from the keyboard in the finder? In windows I just select the object with the arrow keys, and press return when I get the one I want.

there are several useful keyboard shortcuts in the Finder, a few that i know and use:

apple (or command button)-O opens file/folder
apple-Delete takes it to trash
apple-Y or apple-E ejects a CD, Zip; apple-Y also disconnects harddrive you are connected to via network
apple-F for 'Find', activates Sherlock
apple-I for 'Get Info' on item
apple-M for 'Make alias' of item
apple-D for 'Duplicate' item
apple-R works for aliases, clicking this combination brings up the original item the alias refers to
apple-N for 'New folder' which will have the default name 'Untitled'

[sessamoid]

Thanks guys, the suggestions should help a lot. The whole scrolling through with the first letter of the filename is really mostly useful for the windows start button, which mac doesn't have so I guess it's not a big deal. Since I customized my start menu, I know exactly what's in it, so pretty much all my applications are a few set keystrokes away no matter what application I happen to be currently running. I miss that launching capability.

The hardlockups from the classic/sleep bug prevented any set of key combinations normally used to reset the machine. I didn't know about the tiny reset button above the AV port--thanks. It sure beats removing the battery temporarily.

BTW, is there a "delete the character to the right of the cursor" button on macs? PC keyboards have a "backspace" button where the mac's delete key is, then a "delete" key that deletes to the right.

And completely off-topic, is it just me or do the desktop macs and the notebook macs have their keyboard finger nib-thingies on different keys? On the G4 towers I've seen, those little placemarkers are on the middle finger keys (D and K), but on my iBook, they're on the index finger keys (F and J). Why the discrepency?

[todrain]

I had always used Macs, but in 1995 I had moved, and needed some money to pay for college. My IBM 486 was pretty much worthless but my Duo 280C was still very valuable, so reluctantly, I sold it.

It wasn't until the first iBook in 1999 that I was able to get a Mac that I was interested in that I could reasonably afford.

After using the Rev A for almost 2 years, I traded up and got the new model. What a great machine this is!

BTW, for the fellow who is talking about keyboard navagation, the Mac actually has a better feature than windows. If you are in a directory with the file you are looking for, you can go right to that file by typing in the first few letters of the file name rapidly. To my knowledge, windows will only move you to the first letter, so you would still have to do additional scrolling.

On the iBook, you can do forward delete by holding down the "fn" key and hitting the delete key.

[sessamoid]

Actually, Windows 2000 works both ways. I couldn't tell you about Windows 9x/ME as I haven't used either of those in ages. You can either start to type in the whole name of the file and it will automatically be selected, or you can just keep hitting the same key to roll through all the files/folders that start with that letter.

It's definitely a power-user detail that most people don't give a flip about.

Originally posted by todrain:
<STRONG>
BTW, for the fellow who is talking about keyboard navagation, the Mac actually has a better feature than windows. If you are in a directory with the file you are looking for, you can go right to that file by typing in the first few letters of the file name rapidly. To my knowledge, windows will only move you to the first letter, so you would still have to do additional scrolling.

On the iBook, you can do forward delete by holding down the "fn" key and hitting the delete key.</STRONG>

[neophilia]

sessamoid:

As any avid Mac user will tell you, Macs can do anything a PC can, only better. Nevermind those silly games PC people play.

I don't even know where to find my apps as I've been using DragThing to launch them for years now. I hit option-1 to open my email app, option-4 opens NS, 5 opens IE, etc etc.. If I need to open a file in a certain app, I simply drag the file over the appropriate icon in my heavily customized DragThing toolbars. The level of control it gives you is simply amazing.. Anyway, I'm the type that rarely uses my mouse to navigate my hard drives so you'll probably like it too. Grab it at &lt; http://www.dragthing.com/ &gt;

If you really miss the Start menu, you can have that too: http://www.poweronsoftware.com/products/ACTIONGomac/

No idea why you'd want this thing if you use DragThing though.. One more app I'd suggest is Switch-It. Copies Windows' alt-tab functionality (command-tab or whatever you set it to). I can't live without this thing.. Do a search on download.com to get it.

EDIT: whoops, just noticed the fn forward delete modifier thing.. neato, gotta try that on my girlfriend's wallstreet..

Oh I forgot to mention the other Power On software.. umm.. Action Files, that's another one I can't live without. Does such nice things to standard save/open dialogue boxes.. Like if you go to save a file and the folder you wish to save to is open, simply command-click on the open folder and it transports you there. Apple should take a hint from them..

As for the keyboard nubs, Apple used to have them on the D and K keys but for years they've been using the PC standard.. Maybe that G4 tower had an old keyboard?

Have fun with the new Mac.
-peter, http://peter.neophiliadesign.com/

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: neophilia ]

[tg-007]

Originally posted by sessamoid:
<STRONG>Thanks guys, the suggestions should help a lot. The whole scrolling through with the first letter of the filename is really mostly useful for the windows start button, which mac doesn't have so I guess it's not a big deal. Since I customized my start menu, I know exactly what's in it, so pretty much all my applications are a few set keystrokes away no matter what application I happen to be currently running. I miss that launching capability.

The hardlockups from the classic/sleep bug prevented any set of key combinations normally used to reset the machine. I didn't know about the tiny reset button above the AV port--thanks. It sure beats removing the battery temporarily.

BTW, is there a "delete the character to the right of the cursor" button on macs? PC keyboards have a "backspace" button where the mac's delete key is, then a "delete" key that deletes to the right.

And completely off-topic, is it just me or do the desktop macs and the notebook macs have their keyboard finger nib-thingies on different keys? On the G4 towers I've seen, those little placemarkers are on the middle finger keys (D and K), but on my iBook, they're on the index finger keys (F and J). Why the discrepency?</STRONG>

The Start Menu is no good compared to what I have set up...I hate all the junk Apple puts in the Apple menu, so the first thing i do when i get a new computer (which has been 2 in the last 3 months ;-) is customize the entire Apple menu to my liking. I have it divided up into the following folders:

applications,
control panels,
extras (for calculator and stickies and the like),
games,
then i have the recent apps and docs folders,
then the system folder,
then utilities

then on top of that I have my documents folder in a pop up window at the bottom right of the screen, and only 4 icons on the desktop, my 2 hard drive partitions, the "browse the internet" script and the Trash


This is the only way for me to use a Mac...its so great having everything in fast, clutter free menus. Sure it takes some time to set things up the first time and figure out how you want it all...but its SWEET once you get it done. And its much more flxible than the dang start menu

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: tg-007 ]

[Ryu]

Well... actually, it wasn't iBook that saved me from that ugly Wintel world but OSX did. Since I have seen Steve's keynote on net last year about OSX, I just fell in love.

Now I have more than 400 posts on MacNN and more than 200 on AppleInsider but I still don't have a Mac. I was broke for awhile and I just couldn't get one. Well... today, it is going to change. I am getting an iBook this afternoon and seriously, I will be a very happy man. I had a LCIII 8-9 years ago and I am more than ready to come back to Mac community.

[FormerLurker]

Windows power users looking for fast Mac literacy (and vice-versa) might want to check this out - basically a Mac/Win and Win/Mac translation dictionary...
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/platf...ter/index.html

[Gee4orce]

Those of you using Mac OS X - learn to use the column view. It's by far the fastest way to browse your hard drive, and accept keyboard input well (although I alway use the mouse). In fact, hacing the 'A' (applications) button in the toolbar, giving quick access to all my applications, had pretty much replaced DragThing for me, and I was a massive DragThing fan on Mac OS 9 !

[nigeljedi]

Good. That's a strategy that I hope Apple continues to deploy with all new models. Convert them all! Down with Windows! String up Gates!
Sorry. It's been a while since I vented like that.

I'm a :

AppleIIe --&gt; IBM PS/2 --&gt; Never Looked back --&gt; 1.2 Ghz Athlon for development and gaming.

For the first time in 14 years, I would actually consider buying a Mac. Basically, for three reasons :

1) Mac Hardware has always been better
2) OSX is what the doctor ordered

The iBook pushed me over the edge. That and being at the Mclean Apple store opening day.

[gorgonzola]

Once you get used to OS 9's keyboard combos, it's easily as fast as navigating in Windows. A nice thing about the OS is that *all* shortcuts start with the Command key. Makes them easy to remember. All the shortcuts are listed next to menu items in menus, so just read through them and you'll be flying in no time.

A few tricks that aren't listed in menus are:

Tab -- goes through files in a folder alphabetically
Shift-Tab -- goes through files in a folder backwards alphabetically
Command-Option-Down Arrow -- open selected folder and close the parent
Command-Option-W -- close all open windows

There are a few more, but those are the ones that jump to mind. Enjoy your new iBook, and Welcome to Macintosh.

HTH

[ink]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
<STRONG>Read some of the feedback on the CNet review of the iBook:

Go Here

Not only do people love the iBook, but it seems to be winning Apple over a lot of Wintel users - for the first time they are taking a look at apps like iMovie, iTunes and the Mac OS (9 and X) and they like what they see.</STRONG>

My last five machines before my combo iBook were:

• Pentium 75 desktop
• Celeron 400 desktop
• Pentium 166 laptop
• Athlon 700 desktop
• Athlon 1ghz desktop

The new iBook is simply the coolest computer I've ever owned. I was about to order a new Sony Vaio before they were announced. I've since cancelled those plans.

[nathany]

I don't own a iBook yet - but I'm certainly thinking about it. Why else would I be at MacNN this late at night?

It wouldn't be a desktop replacement of course, still have my Duron 700 with 256MB and Win2k for gaming and such. But it would be a great system for most everything else.

I'm waiting for a few things though:
- MacWorld Expo NY in July and what comes from that.
- The next point release of OS X and Apple's rolling out of OS X as a primary OS - hopefully we'll see a lot of improvements as far as performance and memory use - which they'll have to if they want to bundle it with iMacs with (say) 128MB RAM.
- OS X drivers and software for my Canon Digital ELPH and Epson PHOTO 780.
- Final versions of AppleWorks, Eudora, Internet Explorer 5.1, etc. for OS X.
- Cash flow

I'm thinking an Aug/Sep purchase - maybe I'll get a back-to-school special and LCD prices are supposed start climbing again in Q4 - so no later than Sep if I'm gonna do this.

Until then, there is a G4 in the QA labs at work. I was playing with iTunes (under OS X) and my Rio 500 today - very slick so far.


Pros:
- The high res LCD screen should prove great for webpad and e-book type uses.
- Well built - it's targetted at students after all. Nothing to break off - even with the AirPort card there's no antenna sticking out or need to ever insert/remove the card.
- Dimensions and weight - take anywhere computing.
- Price - the closest thing I've seen to this form factor is the Fujitsu S series (XGA 12" screen, combo drive, somewhat similar) which is quite a bit more expensive.


Cons:
- Small arrow keys and embedded page control keys - and no real Delete key, just 'Backspace'. Fine for basic tasks or mouse-driven (i.e. graphics) work but not for software or web development.
- Single mouse button and no scroll wheel equivalent (without external mouse to haul around and find surface for)
- Apple AV Cable should really be included with the DVD version (and combo drive version). Given that and the price difference (buy a standalone DVD player instead?) I'm still a bit undecided on the CD or DVD versions - though leaning towards DVD anyway.
- Lack of some software I use (mainly ColdFusion and ColdFusion Studio - maybe Macromedia will change that at some point)
- (re)Learning curve - though I'm sure I will enjoy learning OS X

Uses:
- Web surfing, email - which will be esp. cooL with AirPort.
- Storing, manipulating my digital photos
- iTunes - my MP3 collection
- Web development - BBEdit, Apache, PHP, MySQL, Fetch. Possibly get DreamWeaver.
- Casual gaming - though with games like Unreal Tournament and Diablo II being Classic mode - I don't know if I'd get them. And I don't know if the meager ATI Rage 128 (like most every other laptop) will be sufficient for next gen games that support OS X. And buying games twice kind of sucks.
- Get more into graphics (PhotoShop, Bryce, Fireworks, etc).
- Maybe get into Java coding with JDK 1.3 (cross-platform, developed primarily on iBook) or maybe even learn some Mac-specific stuff.

Other Wintel users wanting a laptop should give iBook a look - I haven't seen it in person yet (I don't dare as I would come home with one and a huge VISA bill ). But from all I've read and heard it sounds like a pretty awesome notebook.

- n8

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: nathany ]

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: nathany ]

[molala]

i agree with tg-007, the Apple Menu is great! i put a folders there containing aliases of all my applications. it makes it so easy to get to them. it's one of the first things i configure whenever i get a new mac, or whenever we get one at work. and i always put an alias of the System Folder there so it's easy to get to preferences files, add new desktop pics to the appearance folder, etc.

[Gee4orce]

Word of warning- don't get too attached to the Apple Menu

You can have very similar functionality in Mac OS X - drag you Apple Menu items folder into the Dock, and you pretty much have the same thing. Give it a custom icon if you like too...

[dinric]

The ibook I just rebooted due to a hard lockup after installing a calculator program and trying to run it. I hate having to turn it over and remove the battery to reset the thing.

To re-boot in the event of a hard lockup/freeze, just do the following:

&lt;Command&gt;-&lt;Ctrl&gt;-&lt;Powerbutton&gt;

This will force a restart. You won't need to remove the battery.


The &lt;command&gt; key is the one with the clover-leaf symbol and the Apple logo on it.