[Horsepoo!!!]

The upcoming changes in 1.7 are starting to make me want to start playing WoW again.

The one change that is very appealing is the cooldown on all skills after weapon switching during combat. I can only assume Blizzard took my (and other people's) request to put a muzzle on the script kiddies.

A lot of people thought it was fair to instantly swap weapons within combat. I, however, thought it was a cheap trick to get to use a different set of skills that require a different weapon class in the blink of an eye. This cooldown on weapon-swapping should have been added a long time ago.

A few other changes in 1.7 are making the game more balanced for those that play using skills vs those using scripted behaviors/actions.

[dajk]

Zul'Gurub!!!

[Shaddim]

Yup, will make fighting warriors and rogues much more entertaining.

Plus, looking forward to the new Epic gear in Zul'Gurub and the Druid cat buffs. Woohoo!

[dajk]

Also, Hunters can put the training points his pet has in its stats (sta, agi, etc)

[AKcrab]

Off topic pretty much, but I don't want Ca$h having an apoplexy...
Check out these cool utilities the windows folks get:
http://wowmapview.sourceforge.net/wowmodelview/
http://wowmapview.sourceforge.net/

I can't even find an app to open the .blp files, and they get a full fledged 3D flyby.

[The Placid Casual]

After spending 2 months building up a protection spec warrior (430 defense), the changes have come so close to making me want to give up

[greenamp]

I would be surprised if the 33% +Def nerf makes it to live. My prediction is that the nerf will be toned down to something like 10% or 15% .

[Arkham_c]

I hate the warrior nerfs. I don't so much care about the weapon swap (although I think the nerf was unnecessary).

What I do care about is the retaliation nerf and the defense nerf. Neither of these affect PvP at all. The first hurts warrior survivability and ability to kill low level mobs easily. The second hurts us tanks tremendously. It's basically impossible to break 425 defense now without getting a bunch of crummy "of Defense" greens.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Anyhoo...I'm hoping WoW comes out of beta by 1.9.

Any MMORPG that makes major restructuring of class/racial skills like we've seen between 1.0 and 1.6 strikes me as one that didn't stay long enough in the beta stage of development or strikes me as a cheap ploy to make people reroll and spend more time replaying the same content while the people behind the MMORPG rake up the monthly cash.

Lets face it...the 2-week Open Beta was a most brilliant marketing stunt. During those 2 weeks, hardly any bugs were squashed. The Open Beta was just there to allow kids to try out the game (a demo of the game) that was just enough of a tease to make them run to their parents begging them to go out and buy WoW on launch and fork up the monthly dough.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Arkham_c

I hate the warrior nerfs. I don't so much care about the weapon swap (although I think the nerf was unnecessary).

What I do care about is the retaliation nerf and the defense nerf. Neither of these affect PvP at all. The first hurts warrior survivability and ability to kill low level mobs easily. The second hurts us tanks tremendously. It's basically impossible to break 425 defense now without getting a bunch of crummy "of Defense" greens.

My best guess is that the +def nerf was conceived as a means to balance high end raid encounters with the addition of the eight extra debuf slots. Other than that I can't see any real reason why they thought +def was overpowered.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Anyhoo...I'm hoping WoW comes out of beta by 1.9.

Any MMORPG that makes major restructuring of class/racial skills like we've seen between 1.0 and 1.6 strikes me as one that didn't stay long enough in the beta stage of development or strikes me as a cheap ploy to make people reroll and spend more time replaying the same content while the people behind the MMORPG rake up the monthly cash.

Lets face it...the 2-week Open Beta was a most brilliant marketing stunt. During those 2 weeks, hardly any bugs were squashed. The Open Beta was just there to allow kids to try out the game (a demo of the game) that was just enough of a tease to make them run to their parents begging them to go out and buy WoW on launch and fork up the monthly dough.

Such is the life of MMO's. There hasn't been one to date which hasn't followed the same routine. And believe it or not Blizz is doing 10 times better than any of the others have in that department.

By the way, in few months the expansion pack ( World of Warcraft: Northrend ) will be in beta testing. Hopefully Rob B. can hook some of us up when the time comes

[Chuckit]

Are they seriously almost in beta with the expansion? I can't wait for them to raise the level cap. (I'm nowhere near, but I should be by then.)

[dajk]

Northrend is filled with Scourge :/
Ohwell, the Outland is going to be added too

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by dajk

Northrend is filled with Scourge :/

And this guy

( Arthas lore: http://www.wowwiki.com/Arthas )

[dajk]

He's the strongest of them all! ><
So we've got: countless scourge minions, nice giant frost wyrms ready to freeze your ass and a naughty paladin named Arthas.

[Horsepoo!!!]

I doubt they'll let players confront Arthas.

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

How about it's own forum on blizzard's website so you guys can post all your WOW topics there?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

How about it's own forum on blizzard's website so you guys can post all your WOW topics there?

How about you kiss my ass?

[Chuckit]

Don't most games have their own forums somewhere else? Maybe we should just get rid of this one altogether.

For that matter, there are other Mac forums as well…

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by LilWolfChokingOnCigs68

How about it's own forum on blizzard's website so you guys can post all your WOW topics there?

Go away Rob.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Go away Rob.

Yes, please.

-Owl

[NateEssex]

Can I ask a WoW question?
I bought and played the game when it first game out and stopped playing after the first month due to work constraints. How is leveling in the mid-range levels now? Can you solo and still level or are you dependent on groups/partners to finish quests to level?

Thanks

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by NateEssex

Can I ask a WoW question?
I bought and played the game when it first game out and stopped playing after the first month due to work constraints. How is leveling in the mid-range levels now? Can you solo and still level or are you dependent on groups/partners to finish quests to level?

Thanks

Lowbies ganking reduced dramatically several weeks after the honor patch.

That is of course if you're on a pvp server.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by NateEssex

Can I ask a WoW question?
I bought and played the game when it first game out and stopped playing after the first month due to work constraints. How is leveling in the mid-range levels now? Can you solo and still level or are you dependent on groups/partners to finish quests to level?

Thanks

WoW is well made in the sense that you can group or solo your way to level 60. There's a nice balance of soloable quests and group quests in the game. The solo content ends there though...once you hit 60, you're doomed to eternal instance runs with groups of 10-40 people.

[NateEssex]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts

Lowbies ganking reduced dramatically several weeks after the honor patch.

That is of course if you're on a pvp server.

I have no idea what the honor patch did, but the idea sounds great. Is there a site someone could refer me to where I could read up on how the patches have changed gameplay?

Thanks for the reply.

[NateEssex]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

WoW is well made in the sense that you can group or solo your way to level 60. There's a nice balance of soloable quests and group quests in the game. The solo content ends there though...once you hit 60, you're doomed to eternal instance runs with groups of 10-40 people.

This must have changed since I played. Once I got into the mid to late 20's, there were few quests that I could do alone. I tried to grind out the last 1/3 of a level and couldn't do it in 4 hours. The two MMORPG's I played are EQ on the PC for over 4 years ending up with a level 64 Enchanter and 58 Druid, and Shadowbane for over a year playing a Prelate lev 60+. I'm just wondering what game play is like since I don't have the leisure time I once had to play these MMORPG's everyday. How do casual gamers do in WoW?

Thanks again!

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by NateEssex

This must have changed since I played. Once I got into the mid to late 20's, there were few quests that I could do alone. I tried to grind out the last 1/3 of a level and couldn't do it in 4 hours. The two MMORPG's I played are EQ on the PC for over 4 years ending up with a level 64 Enchanter and 58 Druid, and Shadowbane for over a year playing a Prelate lev 60+. I'm just wondering what game play is like since I don't have the leisure time I once had to play these MMORPG's everyday. How do casual gamers do in WoW?

Thanks again!

Nothing has changed since you played. There has always been a nice balance between soloable quests and group quests since day 0!

Most quests become much easier to solo when they become 'yellow' or 'green'. The orange or red are normally quite tough but some classes have an easier time than others.

I must say that as a rogue and using stealth, you can solo pretty much any non-instance quests. Some quests require a bit of strategy but they're almost all doable.

[NateEssex]

Yeah, but "green" quests gave so little experience it was frustrating. Approximately what is the timeline to level in playing hours? Like 10 hours per level through Lev 30? Does it get more difficult as you level?

[Xidius]

Originally Posted by NateEssex

Yeah, but "green" quests gave so little experience it was frustrating. Approximately what is the timeline to level in playing hours? Like 10 hours per level through Lev 30? Does it get more difficult as you level?

I hit 60 in 10 days /played.

I am now ~80 days /played. o_o

- Xidius

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Xidius

I hit 60 in 10 days /played.

I am now ~80 days /played. o_o

- Xidius

Let me guess, it was with a Rogue or a Hunter? Anyone can do that with either class, though your professions and rep suffer greatly.

See how quickly you can level a Druid or a Priest.

[jpg71]

The weapon swap nerf was inevitable, the devs themselves called it a cheese tactic. Why Rogues get away with a 1.0 penalty versus 1.5 penalty is beyond me though. Warriors, masters of weaponry are apparently clutzes when handling their weapons compared to Rogues.

The change affects me a tiny bit, I used to use 2 1-handers to build up rage, then lay the smackdown Overpower/Mortal Strikes with my slow 2-hander, then swap shield in to bash and interrupt casters. What will I do now? Go back the old 31/20 MS cookie-cutter build/strategies, always keeping the reaper out (still generates plenty of rage on its own), and using pummel instead to interrupt casters. Yeah Pummel's weaker compared to Shield and requirs a stance change, but it still causes the interrupt.

The 33% reduction in DEF gear, on the other hand, seems out of place to me. Not sure why they considered it so unbalancing in the first place. A lot of work is requird to obtain that much defense gear, so the result seemed fair. Will it stop end-game instance raids? No, it just makes it more work for everyone, not just warriors.

The Hunter changes are a bit curious, I'm not sure whether I consider them nerfs or buffs yet. The new Spirit Bond is definitely a nerf, especially when taking a pet like Broken Tooth and his 1.0 ATK speed into consideration, but I don't really see any of these changes making the Hunter a desireable member in a group, unless the only use for the hunter is to crowd control with traps.

As far as casual gamers leveling up to 60 in WoW - that has always been the case. WoW has been the most casual-friendly MMORPG to date. If you hit a levelling wall where it was taking you 4 hours to get the last 1/3rd of a level out of the way, you were probably in a bad location. I'm a casual gamer, and I've gotten two characters to 60 (Warrior/Mage), basically playing solo or sometimes with a friend, in under 15 days played time each. But as previously mentioned, once you hit 60 - you're pretty much stuck doing instance raids or battlegrounds, as solo content doesn't exist at that point.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Let me guess, it was with a Rogue or a Hunter? Anyone can do that with either class, though your professions and rep suffer greatly.

See how quickly you can level a Druid or a Priest.

Rep isn't important in WoW (yet). Once you get to Honored with the 4 main factions, you can stop worrying.

I learned this the hard way...my last rogue meticulously went through pretty much every quest (before they were worth next to no rep and xp.) Other than the 10% discount once you hit Honored, you get very little else.

World of Warcraft was supposed to be a dynamic world where rep gains and rep losses would happen regularly (depending on the honor of your actions)...I think you can actually read in the manual that if you lost a significant amount of rep, your own faction could turn against you. WoW doesn't actually work the way they originally intended it to work. I don't think it's actually possible to lose any rep with the 4 main factions. It's possible to lose rep with the Steamwheedle faction and most of the other factions but, I still don't think the world is dynamic enough.

Only recently has Blizzard started to put in reputation rewards with factions...but these rewards are with faction other than the 4 main ones (which to this day remain useless).

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Rep isn't important in WoW (yet). Once you get to Honored with the 4 main factions, you can stop worrying.

Unless you actually WANT some of the best buffs/abilities/enchants in the game. Want buffs to shoulder armor? Get at least Revered in AD. Want that nifty +22 Int enchant? You'll need tons of rep with TB. Not to mention trinkets, armor, and even some weapons that are only available with AV and WSG rep (which you can start on much earlier than lvl60). For the main factions, Honored is usuallly good enough, but for all the others it takes much more and a lot of time. It's been said before, and it's still true, in many ways the game only starts at 60.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Unless you actually WANT some of the best buffs/abilities/enchants in the game. Want buffs to shoulder armor? Get at least Revered in AD. Want that nifty +22 Int enchant? You'll need tons of rep with TB. Not to mention trinkets, armor, and even some weapons that are only available with AV and WSG rep (which you can start on much earlier than lvl60). For the main factions, Honored is usuallly good enough, but for all the others it takes much more and a lot of time. It's been said before, and it's still true, in many ways the game only starts at 60.

Yeah but I was talking about the 4 *main* factions. Unless things changed drastically in the past 3 months, I don't think you need to get to revered with the 4 main Alliance or Horde faction to get anything.

In fact, I don't think there's a way to improve rep with them outside the normal quests (no repeatable quests).

[NateEssex]

Okay last questions:
Taking into consideration all the balancing, what are the group-desired PvP worthy classes for Alliance and Horde. I'll be a casual gamer, so I don't want to have to start over if a class is very gimped.

TY

[CaptainHaddock]

NateEssex, I only play Alliance, but on my server, priests, druids, and warriors are in constant demand for parties. Too many people choose paladins, rogues, and hunters (though I'm a hunter, and I think it's the most fun of any class).

Want buffs to shoulder armor? Get at least Revered in AD. Want that nifty +22 Int enchant? You'll need tons of rep with TB. Not to mention trinkets, armor, and even some weapons that are only available with AV and WSG rep (which you can start on much earlier than lvl60).

Holy crap, I didn't know about any of that stuff, and I'm level 56. Could you explain more?

[G Barnett]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Yeah but I was talking about the 4 *main* factions. Unless things changed drastically in the past 3 months, I don't think you need to get to revered with the 4 main Alliance or Horde faction to get anything.

In fact, I don't think there's a way to improve rep with them outside the normal quests (no repeatable quests).

Actually, by the tailoring supplier/trainer in each (Darnassus, IF, Stormwind & a gnome in Tinkertown) there's an NPC for each faction that will take cloth turnins to increase rep. Once you get to turning in Runecloth, you can do that ad nauseum for Rep.

G Barnett

[NateEssex]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

NateEssex, I only play Alliance, but on my server, priests, druids, and warriors are in constant demand for parties. Too many people choose paladins, rogues, and hunters (though I'm a hunter, and I think it's the most fun of any class).

Are priests, druids, and warriors all okay at PvE and PvP? I thought I remember people saying that druids had a hard time getting a group. Is that still true? Are they fun to play?

[CaptainHaddock]

Nate, I have to admit that I don't do much PvP. But this is my impression of the various classes for PvE:

1. Priest: parties are always looking for a healer; priests make the best healers, and there aren't enough priest players to meet demand. Playing a priest is fun too if you're not the tanking sort. Soloing takes a little more strategy than some classes.

2. Druid: second-best option when it comes to healers, which means you'll also be very welcome in parties. Druids are flexible – their different animal forms allow them to be good fighters as well. Still, priests are more popular than druids.

3. Warriors: the tank class, takes lots of hits and deals lots of damage. Again, parties are usually looking for a warrior and a healer to fill their last two slots. Warriors are fun if you like lots of melee action, and they're strong for soloing.

Pick any of those three, and you should have no trouble getting invited into parties and raids. And for comparison, here are the other classes:

4. Paladin: minor healing abilities, fairly strong tank – but can't keep the attention of mobs like a warrior can. Their huge party advantage is their resurrection spells; but since there are too many paladins, most groups will already have one or two to begin with.

5. Mages: powerful but physically weak, the magical equivalent of a warrior. Parties occasionally request mages. The mage is somewhat underplayed, so you shouldn't have trouble finding groups.

6. Warlocks: a flexible class but not particularly strong. Parties sometimes invite one or two for the soulstones warlocks can make, which will allow a group member (typically the Paladin) to resurrect himself.

7. Hunters: a flexible, middle-of-the-road class. Not too strong, not much magic, but can switch targets quickly in battle thanks to pets and ranged weapons. Like the paladin, there are too many hunters. Since they don't have any healing or resurrecting abilities, no one ever requests them for parties. I think hunters are under-rated; they actually do more damage per second than paladins.

8. Rogues: a solo-oriented fighting class without the strong armor of a warrior. No one ever requests rogues for parties.

[Drakino]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Anyhoo...I'm hoping WoW comes out of beta by 1.9. ...
Lets face it...the 2-week Open Beta was a most brilliant marketing stunt. During those 2 weeks, hardly any bugs were squashed.

Any MMO will have changes over the lifetime, some very drastic. It always happens. A perfectly balanced MMO is impossible if you intend to have more then one class. I was in closed beta of WoW, and saw dramatic changes occur to the game as they tried to get everything into place and also balance things. Honestly though, even with the beta period of a year, it was not possible to have every possible circumstance come up.

Open beta was called "Stress test" for a reason. Both the test in September 04 and right before release was only for people to stress out the servers and try to help Blizzard know where the infrastructure needed upgrades. While launch wasn't smooth, it would have been a lot worse without the stress tests.

If you want to call WoW a beta product now, then I hate to say it, but under your definition, it will always be in beta. Everquest 1, an MMO that came out in 1999 is still seeing patches that change classes around. So I guess thats still in beta too. Oh, so is OS X then too, since 10.4.2 was a patch to Tiger that added and changed things.

[NateEssex]

So, a priest, druid or warrior is the way to go if you want to get invites to groups?

[LilWolfChokingOnCigs68]

Can it, Rob. They get it already.

[Chuckit]

Yes, it is pathetic that you are unable to let go of this irrational hatred for a harmless pastime and and that you somehow feel compelled to spend your time in here bitching about other people's social skills on an Internet message board (with all the irony that implies).

[CaptainHaddock]

Nate: yes. 90% of the messages in the Looking For Group channel on my server go something like "looking for member, need DPS or healer". That always means warrior or priest (or druid).

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by NateEssex

So, a priest, druid or warrior is the way to go if you want to get invites to groups?

Warlock is good for getting into groups as well, at least later on. It's a very underrepresented class, and as much as people like to hate on them, they are very useful to have in groups — for soulstones if nothing else, though they have other nice abilities like the imp's stamina boost and banishing elementals.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Holy crap, I didn't know about any of that stuff, and I'm level 56. Could you explain more?

Since last patch theres a ton of exciting enchants and plans out there, to name a few:
+15 agility on weapon
+15 strength on weapon
+22 intellect on weapon
+mana/second on bracers
+healing spells on bracers

As for Alterac Valley rewards theres a ton, and the Warsong Gulch rewards are here

[NateEssex]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Warlock is good for getting into groups as well, at least later on. It's a very underrepresented class, and as much as people like to hate on them, they are very useful to have in groups — for soulstones if nothing else, though they have other nice abilities like the imp's stamina boost and banishing elementals.

When I first played, people didn't want to play Warlocks I believe because they would run out of the stones that let them summon pets. They weren't stackable or something? Is the class more fun to play now?

[CaptainHaddock]

Warlocks' soul shards – used for summoning minions and casting special spells – don't stack, so a typical Warlock needs a whole bag devoted to them. Still the class looks fun, and the variety of minions makes it decent for soloing.

The odd time they're sought for parties, it's usually for soulstones, their player-summoning ability, and the ability to banish elementals.

If you want to be a magic caster, it's your best alternative to mage.

[NateEssex]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Warlocks' soul shards – used for summoning minions and casting special spells – don't stack, so a typical Warlock needs a whole bag devoted to them. Still the class looks fun, and the variety of minions makes it decent for soloing.

The odd time they're sought for parties, it's usually for soulstones, their player-summoning ability, and the ability to banish elementals.

If you want to be a magic caster, it's your best alternative to mage.

Are Warlocks tougher than Mages? Do they have a longer survivability?

[CaptainHaddock]

Mages and Warlocks are both weak physically. Mages simply use their powerful spells to kill their opponents more quickly, while warlocks use minions to keep enemies at arm's length.