[sweetguitargirl]

I just got a complete IIci at a garage sale for ten buck, and it's a real beaut, even though it only has a one-button mouse, but it's a little confusing to me. I'm writing this from my Pentium 2. I'd really like to get going on the IIci, which would be for text purposes, since it's got Microsoft Word 6.0.1 for MacIntosh.

At the 'Desktop', if I click once on a filename, it turns red and wants to rename it; is this normal?

If I type too fast on the keyboard, sometimes it gives numbers. Like for instance, I can type 'has' slowly and it comes out 'has', but if I speed-type it, it always gives me 'h7'. There are several other combos very similar to this that it does. Has anyone ever had this problem? This and a few other funny things that it either does or doesn't do what I expect it to, makes me think the OS must not be entirely straight anymore. There seem to be essential files missing, like someone deleted a little more than they needed to before putting it up for sale.

So I tried downloading and copying the 19-part 7.5.3 OS upgrade, which will hopefully straighten out the 7.5 OS, at;

http://www.sneakemail.com/auth.pl/10...g&curfldrid=0&

and my P2 does the download okay, but I have to rename the file on the Mac screen to what it said at the above link, as; [System 7.5.5 01or19.smi.bin] and then it takes it.

But then after copying part one to the Mac by floppy, I tried to do part two, and it said the disk was full and I needed to free up a couple of hundred kbs. The HD is about 80 megs, but I don't see where it's all tied up in looking through the 'Desktop'. How can I upgrade to 7.5.3, if its full like that?

Oh, one other thing. When I clicked on the first part of the 19-part OS upgrade in the Mac, it wanted to open it with Adobe, and then said it wasn't an Adobe file and refused to do anything with it.

[wataru]

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
I just got a complete IIci at a garage sale for ten buck, and it's a real beaut, even though it only has a one-button mouse

All Macs come with a one-button mouse. They always have.

At the 'Desktop', if I click once on a filename, it turns red and wants to rename it; is this normal?

Yes. Double-click to open it.

If I type too fast on the keyboard, sometimes it gives numbers. Like for instance, I can type 'has' slowly and it comes out 'has', but if I speed-type it, it always gives me 'h7'.

That doesn't sound like a system problem. What apps does this happen in?

But then after copying part one to the Mac by floppy, I tried to do part two, and it said the disk was full and I needed to free up a couple of hundred kbs. The HD is about 80 megs, but I don't see where it's all tied up in looking through the 'Desktop'. How can I upgrade to 7.5.3, if its full like that?

You can't. Open the hard drive, and then switch the window view to List. Make sure the Size column is visible, and that "calculate folder sizes" is enabled. Find the big files and delete them.

Oh, one other thing. When I clicked on the first part of the 19-part OS upgrade in the Mac, it wanted to open it with Adobe, and then said it wasn't an Adobe file and refused to do anything with it.

The type probably got screwed up. Make sure the file extension is set correctly. If that doesn't work, you'll have to fix the type and/or creator codes. I don't remember what apps are available for your system that can do that.

On a personal note, I wouldn't bother seriously using a Mac running anything less than OS 8.1. Unfortunately, the IIci will only run up to System 7.6.1. If you really want to go through with this, then by all means do. But I wouldn't bother. I recommend you find a cheap PowerMac G3; you can have them for as little as $75, and they run up to OS X 10.2.

[CharlesS]

You'd have more luck posting this in the Classic Macs forum; we're all OS X geeks in here. Since you're a sweet guitar girl, though, I'll see what I can do:

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
At the 'Desktop', if I click once on a filename, it turns red and wants to rename it; is this normal?

Yep.

If I type too fast on the keyboard, sometimes it gives numbers. Like for instance, I can type 'has' slowly and it comes out 'has', but if I speed-type it, it always gives me 'h7'. There are several other combos very similar to this that it does. Has anyone ever had this problem? This and a few other funny things that it either does or doesn't do what I expect it to, makes me think the OS must not be entirely straight anymore. There seem to be essential files missing, like someone deleted a little more than they needed to before putting it up for sale.

Sounds to me like Easy Access may be on. Go to Apple menu -> Control Panels -> Easy Access (or was it Universal Access?) and turn everything off.

So I tried downloading and copying the 19-part 7.5.3 OS upgrade, which will hopefully straighten out the 7.5 OS, at;

http://www.sneakemail.com/auth.pl/10...g&curfldrid=0&

If you suspect your current system is damaged, I'd do a clean install of 7.5.3 rather than an update. You can find the complete installer for 7.5.3 (in 19 parts) here:

http://www.info.apple.com/support/ol...twarelist.html

But then after copying part one to the Mac by floppy, I tried to do part two, and it said the disk was full and I needed to free up a couple of hundred kbs. The HD is about 80 megs, but I don't see where it's all tied up in looking through the 'Desktop'. How can I upgrade to 7.5.3, if its full like that?

While wataru's advice is good, each one of those 19 floppy images should be able to be imaged onto a floppy disk using Disk Copy. Then, you would have a 19-set stack of 7.5.3 install floppies, and you could just reformat the hard disk and install 7.5.3 on it from those. This would get you a cleaner install, ensuring that any corruption in the old system would be gone, and since you just got the machine, there shouldn't be any important files on it (assuming you have the install discs for all the software programs you are going to use, i.e. Word 6.0.1).

Make sure you use brand-new floppies for this, though.

Oh, one other thing. When I clicked on the first part of the 19-part OS upgrade in the Mac, it wanted to open it with Adobe, and then said it wasn't an Adobe file and refused to do anything with it.

There was a great old app called FileTyper to fix the type info:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macos/1615

[sweetguitargirl]

Hi, Thanks for all your advice. I went to Apps and everything was already turned off. Looks like I need to type slower.

Sorry I got started in the wrong forum. I'll try more questions over there in the Classics. Thanks!!!

[f1000]

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
If I type too fast on the keyboard, sometimes it gives numbers. Like for instance, I can type 'has' slowly and it comes out 'has', but if I speed-type it, it always gives me 'h7'. There are several other combos very similar to this that it does.

You might have Easy Access or a keyboard macro activated.

[Luca Rescigno]

The post immediately above yours says that she doesn't, f1000...

Old keyboards will often do stuff like that. I had an old Apple keyboard that was constantly registering a double-hit whenever I typed a "7" or a "0." I guess just live with it, since it's not worth replacing.

Definitely do a clean, full install of the OS rather than trying to upgrade it from one version to another. I'd suggest going through the files on your hard drive and deleting things you don't need. Once you've freed up enough space, you can transfer them all over to the Mac via floppy, and then use Disk Copy (should be in the Utilities folder) to copy the floppy images over to a new set of floppies. You may have to format the floppy disks in Mac format in order to install the system from them.

Then you boot from the floppy disk, erase the hard drive, and install System 7 anew. By the way, if you find 7.5.3 to be a bit too slow, Apple also offers 7.0.1 as a free download. It's a lot more primitive, but it should be extremely fast on a IIci because it's so simple. It also takes up a lot less hard drive space, so you won't run out of room as quickly.

Now the REAL challenge is to get online and make a post here from the IIci!

[sweetguitargirl]

Hi again, it came with some programs I would really like to save somehow. I don't have any way to get replacement programs. I'm getting a new cdrw, and I wonder if there might be a way to hook it up?

Or is there any type of HD to get and hook it up somehow as a Slave, so I can save all the great stuff on it? I think something larger than 80 megs is definitely called for here as a Slave. It has a huge print program I might like to learn how to hook up a printer to later, and Microsoft Word, and it even has Netscape 2. Yeah, I know that's too old to use, but the artwork is so much more interesting that Netscape 7.1 by AOL, I could never bring myself to just delete it.

I've got another Mac I found that doesn't even work, with the screen built into the top of the case. I could find the kind of long special screwdriver you need to open it up, and then perhaps I could pull the HD out of it and hook it up somehow. Can you run two HDs on a IIci? What cables or programming would you look for?

I also need to find out where to download and make a ram doubler Master disk. It's so cool. It's really such a neat little machine, and it already works almost perfectly. Until my budget improves, I can still do the heavy stuff on my P2, but I want to use this for writing and creating on. Thanks for all your help. I understand it a little better already.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
The post immediately above yours says that she doesn't, f1000...

Sorry, I'm a little light-headed today. Shellfish seems to be disagreeing with me.

[sweetguitargirl]

Don't you just love these old machines, especially after someone else has already owned them first and left mysterious little 'gremlins' in them either deliberately or more like unintentionally? Or did they actually make them that way? It's not just a computer anymore, it's more like a whizzix.
http://nl.outducks.org/image/comic/n...81_10a_001.jpg
(couldn't find a picture of a 'whizzix' in English, but apparently the English edition of the comic was The Wonderful Whizzix). Kinda cute huh?

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
I've got another Mac I found that doesn't even work, with the screen built into the top of the case. I could find the kind of long special screwdriver you need to open it up, and then perhaps I could pull the HD out of it and hook it up somehow. Can you run two HDs on a IIci? What cables or programming would you look for?

If it's a SCSI hard drive, you could do it, but you'd need to know what you're doing as SCSI can be pretty not-nice sometimes.

I'd recommend getting an external hard drive instead - it can't be too expensive to get an old 512 MB hard drive, considering that you can get over 100 GB on the cheap nowadays. Then, copy everything from your old drive to the new one, format the old one, and put a clean copy of the OS on the old one.

Alternatively, you could get some sort of optical drive, such as a CD-RW, assuming the IIci supports them, or otherwise something like an old optical drive or Zip drive. It would probably be a good idea to have your apps backed up somewhere anyway.

Is there any way to contact the original owner and ask him/her for the disks that the software on the hard drive came with so you could reinstall if necessary? Then you could just reformat and reinstall without worrying about it.

I would always reformat a used Mac if I got one - gets rid of any 'gremlins' that may have been there from the previous owner.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

My besy bet would to look around at
www.lowendmac.com
www.jagshouse.com

[sweetguitargirl]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
I'd recommend getting an external hard drive instead - it can't be too expensive to get an old 512 MB hard drive, considering that you can get over 100 GB on the cheap nowadays. Then, copy everything from your old drive to the new one, format the old one, and put a clean copy of the OS on the old one.

Alternatively, you could get some sort of optical drive, such as a CD-RW, assuming the IIci supports them, or otherwise something like an old optical drive or Zip drive. It would probably be a good idea to have your apps backed up somewhere anyway.

Is there any way to contact the original owner and ask him/her for the disks that the software on the hard drive came with so you could reinstall if necessary? Then you could just reformat and reinstall without worrying about it.

I would always reformat a used Mac if I got one - gets rid of any 'gremlins' that may have been there from the previous owner.

Okay, this sounds like a plan. Why 512mb? Is there some kind of a 512 mb limit? Does it have to be a Mac SCSI HD, or will any SCSI HD do?

I have a Lite-On cdrw on order. Won't that work the same as an optical? Actually, I'm not sure either would, since there is barely enough room on the HD for the drivers. But if I could, I would need special cables. Once you plug it in, will the Mac 'see' it? Or do I have to tell it to 'look' for it somehow?

I will go ask the original owner about the software. Should have thought of that.

[sweetguitargirl]

Originally posted by BLAZE_MkIV:
My besy bet would to look around at
www.lowenmac.com
www.jagshouse.com

Thank you. The lowenmac link seems gone, but the jagshouse is great!

Yes, a bigger external HD would be fantastic. Could I run that and the original internal at the same time? Where would I find the right kind of cable for it?

[ambush]

OMG SWEET GUITAR GIRL

POST PIC!

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
Thank you. The lowenmac link seems gone, but the jagshouse is great!

Yes, a bigger external HD would be fantastic. Could I run that and the original internal at the same time? Where would I find the right kind of cable for it?

Sure, you can run the external and internal HDs at the same time. Here's what you need:

2 SCSI cables, one for the hard drive, one for the CD-RW (assuming it's SCSI - hopefully it is, as the IIci doesn't support IDE or FireWire)

1 SCSI terminator

But wait, there's one tricky thing about the cables: the connectors come in two different sizes. The DB-25 connector is smaller, while the Centronics-50 is larger. The connector on the back of your IIci is a DB-25, but who knows what size they'll both be on your drives. Therefore, you need to look at the drives.

Actually, a quick Google search turned up some pictures of the connectors, so you can see what they look like. Credit to cablemakers.com:

This is a DB-25 connector:


And this is a Centronics-50 connector:


Let's say the hard drive had DB-25 connectors, and the CD-RW had Centronics-50 connectors. You'd need one DB-25 to DB-25 connector to go from the IIci to the hard drive, and then one DB-25 to Centronics-50 to go from the hard drive to the CD-RW. Then, you'd slap a terminator on the CD-RW.

Which brings us to termination. The last device on the chain has to have a terminator plugged into the empty SCSI port. Again the terminator has to have the same connector type as the last device on the chain. I think the Centronics ones are easier to find, but you can get them for either type of connector. Sometimes, though, a SCSI device may have internal termination. If this is the case, there will be a little switch on the unit somewhere that will allow you to turn termination on or off. If this is the case, you can simply put the device with internal termination on the end of the chain, turn its internal termination on, and then you don't need to buy a terminator. Of course, any device that's not at the end of the chain needs to have termination turned off.

Terminators look like this:


Just kidding, they really look like this:


That picture is of a Centronics-50 terminator - the DB-25 ones look similar, but with a DB-25 connector instead of a Centronics-50 connector.

Okay, now, on to SCSI IDs. This is fairly simple - any device on a SCSI chain can have an ID number from 0 to 7, and no two devices can have the same ID. Your computer and internal hard drive probably each take up one SCSI ID already. My guess would be that they would be 0 and 7, but it's been long enough since I've had a SCSI Mac that I could be remembering incorrectly. To make sure what your existing IDs are, you need a great little freeware utility called SCSIProbe:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/3716

Run SCSIProbe, and it will show you which IDs are taken. Then, set the hard drive and CD-RW each to some ID that isn't taken. There should be a switch on the back of each device that allows you to set the ID.

One more word of warning: When you get the SCSI cables, make sure they actually are SCSI cables, and that the package says so. You don't want to get a PC serial/parallel cable, some of which happen to have the same DB-25 and Centronics connectors as SCSI cables.

Ah, we're done. Now you see why Apple eventually went and invented FireWire?

Now for a few of your other questions:

Okay, this sounds like a plan. Why 512mb? Is there some kind of a 512 mb limit? Does it have to be a Mac SCSI HD, or will any SCSI HD do?

I just suggested 512 MB as it seems like a reasonable amount for IIci, and the modern sizes seem like overkill for a machine running 7.5.3. You could get something a little larger if you like, maybe a 1 GB or a 4 GB; there's no 512 MB limit. I do think the old Mac OS had some limit on a partition size back then, though - I can't remember what it was, but I'd guess probably 4 GB since that's the maximum size of an unsigned long. I doubt you'd need any more than 4 GB with 7.5.3 anyway.

It does not need to be a Mac SCSI hard drive - any SCSI hard drive will work, but you'll want to reformat it before using it. I think that for the old SCSI drives, there used to be an option called Low-Level Format in Drive Setup. It's probably not a bad idea to use that.

I have a Lite-On cdrw on order. Won't that work the same as an optical? Actually, I'm not sure either would, since there is barely enough room on the HD for the drivers. But if I could, I would need special cables. Once you plug it in, will the Mac 'see' it? Or do I have to tell it to 'look' for it somehow?

Getting a CD-RW is an excellent idea. It will work as long as it is SCSI. If it is, you'd connect it just as I described above. Give it an unique ID, make sure the chain's terminated, and install the software, and it should work.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
Thank you. The lowenmac link seems gone, but the jagshouse is great!

Yes, a bigger external HD would be fantastic. Could I run that and the original internal at the same time? Where would I find the right kind of cable for it?

oops www.lowendmac.com

[sweetguitargirl]

I was up really late figuring out how to transfer files between the P2 and the Mac. What works okay is to have the floppy formatted by the P2, then the Mac Microsoft Word file format, and then, this took me an hour to notice, don't have .txt for a suffix. Set up like this, I can switch files back and forth with only the quote (") signs turning into a lower-case letter 'i' with a thingie where the dot goes. Not too bad, really. I may eventually make a full transition to a Mac. Give me time.

The cdrw I'm getting is an IDE, for my Pentium 2, so I will have to plan on getting a SCSI a little later on. This is great though. If it wasn't for that $10 Mac, I never would have known how neat it is to own one. A friend says Macs almost never crash.

The top of the IIci pulls up from the back to pop off. There is room for a second HD, and a power connector for it too. I unplugged it to look at it, and gee, this 'colon' key on my keyboard will be very useful to show what the pins look like. They look like this; :::::::::::::::::::::::::. That's not like either one of your pictures though.

Oh, I know. That's because I'm looking at the internal arrangement, and you're talking about the external. Okay, that looks like the DB-25. Actually, there are two of different sizes, so I guess one is the printer port.

But since there is room, I would rather like to try for adding the second HD internally, unless you think there might be a danger of too much heat from stacking them so tightly in there.

If I went for an external one, I would need an external HD case to go with it I suppose. Hope that's not too expensive. But unless heat is a problem, an internal arrangement would be preferable to me. Seriously, do you think it would be too hot to add the second HD on top of the first? They would be touching, with no air flow.

It looks like a Quantum SCSI 4 gig would be the max choice, and be the best way to avoid different HD brand conflicts. Then I would need a SCSI cable with 3 outlets, to include a mobo connector. I don't see where a 'terminator' would go, unless it comes with more than three plugs on it.

I found a window while running it that showed the HD and something else, I think the mobo? So I can locate and number them like you said.

Also, there are 8 ram chips, 4 short and 4 tall.

I do also have a CS-30 or something like that, that gives horizontal bars on boot. I figured it would be like that when I got it, and really picked it up to have an extra A: drive unit. I could pull the HD, but it's probably one-half the size of the other Mac, so I don't think I'd mess with that, but just go for a Quantum 4 gig.

[sweetguitargirl]

Some of the HDs at ebay say 'Apple ROM'. Does it have to say that? You may be right about 4 gigs being overkill.

[sweetguitargirl]

Okay, one ebay offer said with Apple ROM you can format it in/with Apple software.

[sweetguitargirl]

Hey, look what I found;
http://stores.ebay.com/Ye-Olde-Mac-M...enameZl2QQtZkm

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by sweetguitargirl:
I was up really late figuring out how to transfer files between the P2 and the Mac. What works okay is to have the floppy formatted by the P2, then the Mac Microsoft Word file format, and then, this took me an hour to notice, don't have .txt for a suffix. Set up like this, I can switch files back and forth with only the quote (") signs turning into a lower-case letter 'i' with a thingie where the dot goes. Not too bad, really. I may eventually make a full transition to a Mac. Give me time.

Sounds like a text encoding problem, which is odd, since Word should be smart enough to read encodings from other platforms.

Which version of Word is the PC running?

The cdrw I'm getting is an IDE, for my Pentium 2, so I will have to plan on getting a SCSI a little later on. This is great though. If it wasn't for that $10 Mac, I never would have known how neat it is to own one. A friend says Macs almost never crash.

Macs made since 2001 or so that run OS X never crash. With the older stuff, you might get crashes now and then. The 7.5.x line had "error type 11" come up sometimes, which could get annoying. If your RAM is good, you should be able to reduce that.

The top of the IIci pulls up from the back to pop off. There is room for a second HD, and a power connector for it too. I unplugged it to look at it, and gee, this 'colon' key on my keyboard will be very useful to show what the pins look like. They look like this; :::::::::::::::::::::::::. That's not like either one of your pictures though.

Oh, I know. That's because I'm looking at the internal arrangement, and you're talking about the external. Okay, that looks like the DB-25. Actually, there are two of different sizes, so I guess one is the printer port.

But since there is room, I would rather like to try for adding the second HD internally, unless you think there might be a danger of too much heat from stacking them so tightly in there.

Yeah, the DB-25 and Centronics connectors are for connecting external drives. It will be easier to add them externally. I don't think there's a problem with heat, it's just that adding it internally will be much more difficult.

If you do decide to install it internally, make sure you set the jumpers so that the hard disk has a unique ID, and make sure the termination is set up correctly. Whichever drive ends up on the end of the chain needs to be terminated. The one in the middle between the SCSI card and the drive on the end needs to not be terminated. If the termination is not set up correctly, you could damage the contents of both drives.

Some more information on SCSI termination:

http://lowendmac.com/tech/termination2.shtml

It looks like a Quantum SCSI 4 gig would be the max choice, and be the best way to avoid different HD brand conflicts. Then I would need a SCSI cable with 3 outlets, to include a mobo connector. I don't see where a 'terminator' would go, unless it comes with more than three plugs on it.

To be honest, internal SCSI isn't something I've messed with a lot. I think that some drives have a jumper setting that decides whether they are terminated or not. If you can figure those out and get it so that only the drive on the end of the chain is terminated, you're in business. Otherwise, perhaps someone more familiar with internal SCSI could help out here.

I do also have a CS-30 or something like that, that gives horizontal bars on boot. I figured it would be like that when I got it, and really picked it up to have an extra A: drive unit. I could pull the HD, but it's probably one-half the size of the other Mac, so I don't think I'd mess with that, but just go for a Quantum 4 gig.

Ah, the SE-30. That was a nice machine. Too bad yours isn't working.

[davecom]

Honestly it's probably not worth the investment on the external hard disk when you could buy a newer, better mac running 9.2 for like $50 to $100.

[BLAZE_MkIV]

1. Its all about running the old hardware. Theres a plus out there running as a web server of a floppy disk.

2. 7.5.x isn't particularly unstable. Be warned however that Netscape 3 & 4 were very crash prone.

[Kami]

I'm pretty sure that the IIci won't take a second drive internally if you want the lid to close. You can sit one drive on top of the other but there isn't a proper mounting bracket/sled.