Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Cody Dawg · Jun 2, 2005, 10:18 PM

So, he was justified in tasering her and threatening her life because she didn't respond in under 34 seconds?

You think?

James L · Jun 2, 2005, 10:27 PM

And, just in case anyone is thinking "she was a woman, she wasn't a threat to him, he could have just wrestled her out of the truck". Any woman, while wrestling around, is quite capable of landing devasting blows, pulling out knives, etc.

Officers also have to always be aware of their sidearm, and that anytime they physically engage a person that the person may try to wrestle their gun away from them and shoot them with it. This is why many police departments teach an interview position that always has their sidearm back and away from the person they are talking to.

Finally, other studies have shown that in a surprise attack, assailants can often pull a knife, cross a 21 foot distance, and strike before an officer can draw a sidearm, take off the safety, aim, and fire.

All things considered, if I am an officer, tasering is a much safer method of subduing an assailant.

James L · Jun 2, 2005, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

So, he was justified in tasering her and threatening her life because she didn't respond in under 34 seconds?

You think?

I think NO ONE WHO HASN'T BEEN IN THAT SITUATION can armchair quarterback the situation.

There is way to much that we can't see, and you keep mentioning that 34 seconds. He spoke with her for several minutes before he asked her to step out of the vehicle, and she showed the potential for a threat right off the get go (actually, from the moment she opened her door when she was stopped). The entire thing must be taken into consideration, and you need to let go the 34 seconds part and look at the big picture.

Finally, we DON'T KNOW what she did when he opened the door that caused him to pull the taser. Did she reach under the dash? Did she hit him? Did she go for the glove compartment? Did she burn him with a cigarette? Did she pull a weapon? Did she try to kick out at him? Reach between the seats for an unknown weapon?

You said this:

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

So, he was justified in threatening her life....

Did you ever stop to think that she was a threat to his life, and we can't tell from a simple internet video clip? Remember, gender has nothing to do with it (see my above post).

This whole thing could have been solved very easily...

When the officer came up to her, over 3 minutes into the call, and asked her politely to get out of the vehicle... she could have done it. Problem solved.

Traffic stops are potentially one of the most dangerous parts of a cops job, because of the unknown factor. I have treated a lot of cops who have been injured in them. One won't see his kids again.

I am not saying that the cop was right or wrong... I am saying that we don't know enough, but for all we know, based on what I have said above, this woman could have very easily be presenting herself as a threat, knowingly or not, and the officer responded in kind.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 2, 2005, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

So, he was justified in tasering her and threatening her life because she didn't respond in under 34 seconds?

You think?

Yes. That is exactly what most of us think. Yes yes yes. I'm glad that you've realized that by the second page of the thread.

Cody Dawg · Jun 2, 2005, 11:21 PM

Well, maybe I have this opinion and perception because I am a woman and I think being tasered by a man while I am sitting down in a vehicle on the cell phone with my husband and trying to tell him what is going on is a bit barbaric.

Men see it a different way, I suppose.

I hope that they lose in court and pay up to the tune of $10 million which is what they are suing for. I also hope that the Delray Beach police department has to pay the $15 million that they are being sued for by attorney Willie Gary. Because, you see, there is too much police brutality - which is what another thread here also discusses.

We're talking about a traffic stop here, not a bank robbery in progress. This is the same state that thinks it is okay to taser children.

jasonsRX7 · Jun 3, 2005, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Well, maybe I have this opinion and perception because I am a woman and I think being tasered by a man while I am sitting down in a vehicle on the cell phone with my husband and trying to tell him what is going on is a bit barbaric.

Then by all means, learn from her mistake. Avoid driving with a suspended license, speeding 16 miles over the limit in a 35 zone while not wearing your seat belt, having a broken windshield and a broken brake light, talking on the phone and ignoring the officer who is trying to arrest you for the above offenses, and resisting arrest.

I know it's hard, but if you can manage to do that, and to wait until after the cop has given you the ticket to call your husband, then you just might be able to avoid being tasered. Especially if you're white.

James L · Jun 3, 2005, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Well, maybe I have this opinion and perception because I am a woman and I think being tasered by a man while I am sitting down in a vehicle on the cell phone with my husband and trying to tell him what is going on is a bit barbaric.

Men see it a different way, I suppose.

I hope that they lose in court and pay up to the tune of $10 million which is what they are suing for. I also hope that the Delray Beach police department has to pay the $15 million that they are being sued for by attorney Willie Gary. Because, you see, there is too much police brutality - which is what another thread here also discusses.

We're talking about a traffic stop here, not a bank robbery in progress. This is the same state that thinks it is okay to taser children.

forget about everything else but THIS situation. Forget lawsuits. Forget children. Forget Willie Gary.

Be subjective, because you haven't up until now. I posted ad nauseum about the real world of life on the streets, and about cops I have treated who have been wounded, and killed, on the streets doing traffic stops.

Incidently, I have never treated a cop who was killed in a bank robbery call.

These are from a quick 2 minute google... I haven't looked through them to audit them:

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/sp...copshot11.html

http://www.aclu-houston.org/about/me...5/0103051.html

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/gallery.htm

http://www.komotv.com/news/story_m.asp?ID=37099

Cody, women can kill just as well as men do... like it or lump it. There is NO such thing as a routine traffic stop to a cop. None. nada.

Look at this women... forget women, as gender seems to be clouding your judgement... look at this person.

She was instantly belligerent to the cop. She argued for several minutes. She refused to get out of the car. We don't know what she was doing with her hands. We don't know if she assaulted him in the car. She ignored THREE warnings to come out or she would be tasered.

The cop is not really the bad person here.

You act in your recent posts like you didn't even read mine.

Read them. Objectively. Do your own google for cops killed in traffic stops. Look at the officers escalating use of force over the three or four minutes. Watch the woman ignore three warnings.

Forget the emotional "the man bullied the woman" point of view. You don't know all that happened. You don't know what she did inside the car. You seem to think traffic stops are routine, when cops DIE often conducting traffic stops.

There is violence in the world. Police need to protect themselves from it. They escalate their force as needed. We don't have all the data here. YOU don't have all the data here.

You could be more objective.

DeathMan · Jun 3, 2005, 01:45 AM

why do you continue to argue? I don't think there is a single person who has mustered the patience to read this thread who things you have any justification for getting all huffy.

you just get all huffy when you don't have the facts. this is a character trait of yours.

esXXI · Jun 3, 2005, 01:57 AM

I agree pretty much with everything James L said. I think you for making sense. Please, Cody, re-read everything he's posted until you understand.

(Personally I think this whole lack of respect for officers is a pampering thing. People should stop acting like spoilt kids when they're caught and arrested/fined for breaking the law.)

Warung · Jun 3, 2005, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I hope that they lose in court and pay up to the tune of $10 million which is what they are suing for.

Against a cop?

løl

Fat chance! Maybe if she has tons of money to pay off the court systems, otherwise she'd have a better chance of getting a cup of ice water in hell.

JoshuaZ · Jun 3, 2005, 02:12 AM

Gee... I like how a massive court settlements help everyone involved. Like the city, or the tax payers, or the Police department.

Once again, she totally deserved it. It was the right call.

Cops need to protect themselves, in any situation.

Superchicken · Jun 3, 2005, 02:28 AM

I hope she looses the law suit. 15 Million is NOT an accurate damage estimate. She's off work for a few weeks, and bleed a bit. Most I'd say she could sue for is 10 grand MAX for salary compensation, plus maybe another 10 grand for counselling fees to help her get over it. At MOST. Add in doctor's bills. You couldn't possibly come to over a million no matter how you slice it.

I have no doubt this was probably helped along my racism... but who's to say she also wasn't being prejudice? I know lots of rich and poor people who hate each-other. Neither is right for doing it to the other. I'd say both people behaved badly. The cop was a bit of a jerk and certainly didn't talk to her nicely, though to be honest going a large bit over the limit, with several offences then mouthing off, and ignoring him while on the phone with her "Husband" as she said. Yeah she had it coming. And she can't be that poor if she's driving around in a freaking SUV with a Cell.

Plain and simple the woman is a brutal wench who decided she was worth more than the cop. People who treat police like that deserve what they get. Sure the cop probably should have been nicer. But if I faulted either party it'd be her. That said the second tasering was unnecessary. I think each cop who is going to use one of these should have to have it done once to them so they know how painful it is.

deej5871 · Jun 3, 2005, 02:46 AM

The only thing that really concerns me is that he told her to put her arms behind her back, and when she couldn't do it, he tased her again. A cop I talked to told me about when he got tased (he volunteered for demonstration) and how it can take a little while to recover. Taser.org says that "Recovery can be instantaneous to a few minutes" as well as "A small percentage of people with a very high tolerance for electrical stimulation can fight through the effect of 7-14 Watt systems" (which would explain James L's guy not going down, assuming they used those kinds of tasers). Expecting that woman to be able to control herself immediately after being tased is just stupid. I mean, there's a possibility that maybe she could do it, but ordering her to do it and then tasering her when she didn't is uncalled for.

Chuckit · Jun 3, 2005, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

I think each cop who is going to use one of these should have to have it done once to them so they know how painful it is.

I don't know Florida law, but I believe that is required in some places, like New York. Of course, what's painful to you may not be painful to me.

Warung · Jun 3, 2005, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Superchicken

I hope she looses the law suit.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=257852

birdman · Jun 3, 2005, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by deej5871

The only thing that really concerns me is that he told her to put her arms behind her back, and when she couldn't do it, he tased her again.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they couldn't have just grabbed her arms and pulled them behind her back to cuff her. I mean, they're obviously not shy about touching her since they pulled her out of the car and tased her to the ground. And when she's being a drama queen on the ground about the tasering and bleeding on the arm, what the **** do you expect her to do? Especially when you know full well that some people take longer to recover from the shock (especially wailing drama queens). It wasn't until the second tasering that the other cop grabbed her arms.

-birdman

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 09:27 AM

The only thing that really concerns me is that he told her to put her arms behind her back, and when she couldn't do it, he tased her again. A cop I talked to told me about when he got tased (he volunteered for demonstration) and how it can take a little while to recover. Taser.org says that "Recovery can be instantaneous to a few minutes" as well as "A small percentage of people with a very high tolerance for electrical stimulation can fight through the effect of 7-14 Watt systems" (which would explain James L's guy not going down, assuming they used those kinds of tasers). Expecting that woman to be able to control herself immediately after being tased is just stupid. I mean, there's a possibility that maybe she could do it, but ordering her to do it and then tasering her when she didn't is uncalled for.

Absolutely CORRECT.

THAT is the point that I initially made! He is a bully with an anger control problem, period.

Let's assume that she did everything wrong and the cop was within his limits to taser her. Why did he taser her again while she is laying on the ground prone and unable to respond? He shouldn't be a cop. He shouldn't be a security guard. He should be in anger-management classes.

It was his partner that saw that she was going to be tased for a THIRD time and intervened and put her hands behind her back in order to help her. That rogue cop would have kept tasing her over and over again. He has a problem.

I hope his police department loses the lawsuit and has to pay millions. Do I think she deserves the money - that much? No. But, I think that this state, especially Southeast Florida, is taser-happy and it's not right.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 09:34 AM

BTW, I'd like to see who now starts defending the cop's right to taser someone laying on the ground helpless - over and over again. If anyone honestly thinks that that is acceptable or okay then that person has a real problem and needs to take a careful look inside or get mental help. It's sadistic and wrong.

Randman · Jun 3, 2005, 09:35 AM

You know if the police pay a lawsuit, you'll pay more in taxes.

Buckaroo · Jun 3, 2005, 09:35 AM

It's appropriate on anyone and everyone that puts up the slightest indication of resisting arrest.

So keep your mouth shut and get into position, or zap.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 09:46 AM

Over and over and over again it's okay to "zap" someone? I don't think so. And neither do most other people. And honestly, I don't live in that community so I won't pay more in taxes. Our company services all of the cop cars in the area, including the state troopers cars, and my spouse was talking to a veteran state trooper and even he said that tasering her the second time was when this cop crossed the line.

RAILhead · Jun 3, 2005, 09:53 AM

I would like to have a taser.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 10:03 AM

Maybe eBay has one.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 10:04 AM

Here ya go, Maury...have at it!

jimcpherson · Jun 3, 2005, 10:06 AM

always.

Randman · Jun 3, 2005, 10:14 AM

OK, so you don't live there. And if you did and taxes would go up, would you still maintain your stance?

jasonsRX7 · Jun 3, 2005, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Over and over and over again it's okay to "zap" someone? I don't think so. And neither do most other people.

Ok so post a video where someone gets zapped over and over again, and we'll discuss it. I'll start. Another criminal who deserves to get lit up

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 10:31 AM

Yes. I'm not a hypocrite. I think that this shouldn't happen ever again, especially not to poor ignorant black women. Is she a big mouth? Yes. But I believe that most of the time that people who are like her act the way they do not because they are a menace to society but because they are scared. She was afraid and so she was on the offense from the beginning.

I've gotten pulled over for speeding. Cop walks up and he says, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I say, "Yes, I was probably speeding. I probably deserve a ticket." I give him my registration, license, and insurance information and they always give it back to me and say, "I'm giving you a warning this time." I haven't had a ticket, ever, for speeding. (I don't speed that often anyway.)

The last thing I would do is start trying to verbally bully a cop which is what she does. She knew that she was in trouble because she was driving with a suspended license.

Now, I'm going with someone tomorrow to interview this lady, actually. I'm going to ask her these questions such as, "Why were you driving with a suspended license?" I want to hear her side of the story. It will be interesting to hear what she has to say.

By the way? She lives in Delray Beach, Florida and apparently the Delray Beach and Boynton Beach cops "overwork" each other's districts. I find that very interesting.

RAILhead · Jun 3, 2005, 10:31 AM

sweet!

Chuckit · Jun 3, 2005, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I think that this shouldn't happen ever again, especially not to poor ignorant black women. Is she a big mouth? Yes. But I believe that most of the time that people who are like her act the way they do not because they are a menace to society but because they are scared. She was afraid and so she was on the offense from the beginning.

Being an idiot is not a medical condition that excuses bad behavior or frees you from the consequences. He was wrong to shoot her the second time, but still no more wrong than she was throughout the entire encounter — but because you arbitrarily stick up for some people and demonize others, somehow her bad behavior is totally cool.

And repeatedly bringing up the fact that she was black just makes you sound like a racist. "Oh, those poor black people, they can't be expected to act civilized or understand the rule of law like white folk do." I don't care what color your skin is. If you resist arrest, expect the use of force.

budster101 · Jun 3, 2005, 11:14 AM

She was black? Oh, never mind.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 11:33 AM

Hi budster!

I'm not making excuses for her or her ignorance or driving with a suspended license.

But that does not negate the FACT that the cop was tasering her repeatedly - while she was laying on the ground.

Why not discuss THAT? You think that's okay chuckit? Are you a sadist too?

jasonsRX7 · Jun 3, 2005, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I think that this shouldn't happen ever again, especially not to poor ignorant black women.

What. The. ****. are you smoking.

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

She was afraid and so she was on the offense from the beginning.

Yes, she was afraid because she knew she was driving with a suspended license and knew she was in bigger trouble than just a speeding ticket.

You're actually going to talk to this woman? I'm sure you'll get an accurate description of what happened. She seems like an honest and forthcoming type.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 11:45 AM

I want to see if she admits that what she was doing was wrong. Her attorney is going to be there so perhaps he'll nix her explanation.

Supposedly she did not know that she had a suspended license. Supposedly.

Anyway, you think it's okay to taser people laying on the ground who are helpless who have just been tasered?

Link · Jun 3, 2005, 11:55 AM

The RULES:
Republican cop + republican suspect = NOT OK
Democrat cop + republican suspect = Police abuse
Republican cop + democrat suspect = taser them till they're dead
democrat cop + democrat suspect = EEWWW PINKO COMMIES!!!!One!!!

You can see what I think about this one :rolls eyes:

Tasering someone for not listening to you the first time is asinine, to taser them 2 more times for not doing the impossible and not knowing the result of their weapon is BRUTAL FORCE. Nothing more to that, and all of you who said it was okay are ASSHOLES.

crazeazn · Jun 3, 2005, 11:56 AM

cody -

you deserved to be tasered for spouting your non-sense. tasering isnt half bad.... go to a second world country and talk **** to a police, it will get you killed or beaten senseless. the stupid woman decided not to comply promptly and she got what she was due. simple as that. those officers (trigger happy or not) put their lives on the line everyday for us while some sit and bitch about excessive force. if you dont like it move somewhere else.

crazeazn · Jun 3, 2005, 11:57 AM

oh and i was just kidding about you getting tasered

TETENAL · Jun 3, 2005, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

But that does not negate the FACT that the cop was tasering her repeatedly - while she was laying on the ground.

Why not discuss THAT?

Because THAT was not the only thing that happened; it didn't happen as an isolated incident.

She was non-compliant and bitchy for about ten minutes before that. From watching the video it seemed like he mistook her inability to put her hands on her back for non-compliance. Sure, that was a mistake. Now you know that traffic-controls are one of the most dangerous situations for police officers. For a women that behaved like her he had to expect that she could pull a fire-arm or knife at any second. That certainly put him under tension – if not stress – as well. Stress is when humans make mistakes and police officers are human beings as well.

Aren't you at least a little bit glad that this man did his job and arrested the speeding woman without a license before she runs over one of your children (and then sues you for millions because you didn't hold them by their hands or something else ridiculous)

Link · Jun 3, 2005, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by crazeazn

cody -

you deserved to be tasered for spouting your non-sense. tasering isnt half bad.... go to a second world country and talk **** to a police, it will get you killed or beaten senseless. the stupid woman decided not to comply promptly and she got what she was due. simple as that. those officers (trigger happy or not) put their lives on the line everyday for us while some sit and bitch about excessive force. if you dont like it move somewhere else.

Please go move to one of these other countries then.

This is the USA, and because they might do that in your home country doesn't mean that sorta crap happens out here.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 11:58 AM

by Link
The RULES:
Republican cop + republican suspect = NOT OK
Democrat cop + republican suspect = Police abuse
Republican cop + democrat suspect = taser them till they're dead
democrat cop + democrat suspect = EEWWW PINKO COMMIES!!!!One!!!

You can see what I think about this one :rolls eyes:

Tasering someone for not listening to you the first time is asinine, to taser them 2 more times for not doing the impossible and not knowing the result of their weapon is BRUTAL FORCE. Nothing more to that, and all of you who said it was okay are ASSHOLES.

That is the quote of the day - it is great.

crazeazn · Jun 3, 2005, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Link

Please go move to one of these other countries then.

This is the USA, and because they might do that in your home country doesn't mean that sorta crap happens out here.

did you completely misread my post? the United States, MY HOME COUNTRY, has one of the most stringent laws protecting the citizen giving them the benefit of the doubt. Hence the 'innocent before proven guilty'. Have you been to france? Thats a 1st world country where its 'guilty before proven innocent'. I never said i wanted to move anywhere, I'm saying its the best here jeez. Learn how to read.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 12:23 PM

Did you completely misread my post? the United States, MY HOME COUNTRY, has one of the most stringent laws protecting the citizen giving them the benefit of the doubt. Hence the 'innocent before proven guilty'.

Link doesn't misread things, I'm sure. He only has like, uh, 4000+ posts.

Yeah, that lady laying on the ground getting tasered over and over again was really "innocent before proven guilty." Seems to me that the cop was her jury and judge and also provided the punishment. She would have been tased a third time except that his partner knew that he was out of control and got between her and the rogue cop before she was tased for the third time. It was the partner that acted rationally during the entire episode.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 12:36 PM

Watch this fourth video. It is AFTER she's been tasered and is on the ground.

The rogue cop is talking to his boss, the sargeant. The sargeant clearly says - after the cop says he tasered her twice - "Good grief! That's some punishment."

Even his BOSS knew that he was out of line.

Secondly, the cop is caught in a lie. The cop says that "she" pulled the prong from the taser gun out of her arm. But guess what? HE is the one that pulled the prong out of her arm - watch him pull the wires attached to the prong out of her arm.

Lastly - and this is the biggest problem - her baby boy was in the vehicle with her and saw the entire thing. You think that is okay? The cops left the baby in the car while all this was going on...they then put her in their car - and leave her infant in the car! This is specifically why the attorney who took her case took it because they tasered a mother in her car while the baby was there and then they left the baby there. They said in an interview, "We didn't know she had a baby in the car because he didn't make a sound and his carseat was hidden in the back. She didn't say anything. Anyway, he wasn't in there very long." THEY DESERVE TO BE SUED AND THE COP SHOULD BE FIRED.

BoomStick · Jun 3, 2005, 12:41 PM

We have a cop that shot a kid in the face on a routinge traffic stop.

He then planted a knife on the dying kid and didn't call for help until he thought the kid was dead.

The kid lived until the next morning with no maxilla, left cheekbone, left eye and severly damaged mandable.

He shoved the gun to the kid's face and was screaming at him until the gun "accidently" went off.
For some reason the chase camera quit working brfore the cop exited his car and failed to capture his "version" of what happened. However his partner rolled over on him and confessed what happened to the GBI.

We now have a cop with a price on his head because he was only charged with misdemeanor wreckless conduct.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 12:43 PM

That is just sick, BoomStick.

That is kind of my point also. Cops using unnecessary violence and an "accident" happens. Disgusting.

BoomStick · Jun 3, 2005, 12:50 PM

HOLY CRAP!
I just watched the video and she did everything possible to provoke the officer.

He clearly warned her repeatedly and she did not comply.

She should have taken the ticket.

DeathMan · Jun 3, 2005, 12:53 PM

yeah, a cop shooting a kid in the face and trying to cover it up, and a cop tasering a hostile, uncooperative woman is exactly the same thing.

Cody Dawg · Jun 3, 2005, 12:54 PM

She DID provoke him - there is no disputing that.

She should have shut her mouth and not been belligerent, I agree. But he still crosses the line by tasering her a second time (and wanted to taser her a third time) and then he rips the prongs out her arm and says she did it (and it turns out that she has sickle cell anemia and bleeds easily and blood was just pouring out of her arm) and then he leaves a baby in the car alone in the heat.

BoomStick · Jun 3, 2005, 12:57 PM

The cop should have called for the EMS I agree.

The backup cop should have taken care of everything else as she was escorted into the squad car.

It's a mess all around and could have been avoided if she would have cooperated, however she got the case she was looking for.

The cop should have let the fresh cop make the arrest because he hadn't been antagonized yet.

pooka · Jun 3, 2005, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Link

Nothing more to that, and all of you who said it was okay are ASSHOLES.

I'm an asshole? Fine with me. Beats being a jackass. Who in the **** brought up politics? I didn't see a "No Blood For Oil" sticker on the back of the vehicle. And I kinda doubt there was a "I Voted For Bush Cause' I Hate Pussies Like You" sticker on the cop's vehicle.

If you think I'm ok with what happened because the cop was white and the woman was black you're way off there, skippy. I would have reacted the same had it been a 5ft tall black woman or 7ft tall black male using the same amount of force on a white male or female. The only time I'd get pissed is if it was an attractive asian woman. You don't hurt flowers.