[GraphiteBoi]

I think after WWDC, it is almost certain that the new iMacs will be flat screen. This is an issue that has been discussed at length in this forum and it is clear that Apple is going in the direction ot be fully flat screen...now I just can't wait to see what it will look like!

[lee vieira]

My educated guess on this topic remains: it could happen, but don't bet on it.

Yes, LCDs have gotten cheaper, but still not cheap enough. By my estimates, going 15" LCD on the iMac line would add at least $250 per machine, probably more.

You *could* do it, but you'd have to say buh-bye to the low-end iMac, and the mid- and upper- iMacs would have lower specs(no money for good specs anymore).

Maybe a small LCD would be cheaper(like a 13.3" viewable laptop LCD), but still, thanks to economies of scale nothing usuable is cheaper than a 15" CRT(or even 17" CRT, for that matter).

And rumors have Apple adding combo DVD/CD-RW drives and GeForce 2MX graphics chips to the iMac line...those things aren't cheap. Not much room $$$-wise to add an LCD.

--lee

[tyoda]

Yes, it will probably suffer from the same price problem as the Anniversary Mac did. It results in a very cool, slim enclosure, but a bit costly for what you get.

I still like the idea that the Cube should've been the monitorless iMac, which allows the user to add which ever kind of display they prefer.

[GraphiteBoi]

I agree to the degree that it would be too expensive for LCD in all iMacs, but Maybe just the SE would be flat screen?

------------------
i Think, therefore iMac.

[pliny]

Originally posted by lee vieira:
My educated guess on this topic remains: it could happen, but don't bet on it.

Yes, LCDs have gotten cheaper, but still not cheap enough. By my estimates, going 15" LCD on the iMac line would add at least $250 per machine, probably more.

You *could* do it, but you'd have to say buh-bye to the low-end iMac, and the mid- and upper- iMacs would have lower specs(no money for good specs anymore).

Maybe a small LCD would be cheaper(like a 13.3" viewable laptop LCD), but still, thanks to economies of scale nothing usuable is cheaper than a 15" CRT(or even 17" CRT, for that matter).

And rumors have Apple adding combo DVD/CD-RW drives and GeForce 2MX graphics chips to the iMac line...those things aren't cheap. Not much room $$$-wise to add an LCD.

--lee

lee if you're right then this configuration (from the apple store) in flat panel mode

400MHz
PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache
(at 160MHz)
64MB SDRAM
10GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8 MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch display
Two USB ports
Two FireWire ports


would be $1149.


what about this as a baseline $1149 (fast):

450MHz
PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache
(at 160MHz)
128 MB SDRAM
10GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-RW
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 16 MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch lcd display
Two USB ports
Two FireWire ports

faster: ($1349)
500MHz
PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache
(at 500 MHz)
128 MB SDRAM
20GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-RW
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 16 MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch lcd display
Two USB ports
Two FireWire ports

fastest ($1549):
600 MHz
PowerPC G3
512K L2 cache
(at 600 MHz)
128 MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-RW
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 16 MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch lcd display
Two USB ports
Two FireWire ports


hmmm--fastest does seem to be getting up there pretty quickly.

------------------
"i look in your general direction"

[This message has been edited by pliny (edited 05-22-2001).]

[lee vieira]

Let's put this in terms that are easy for everyone to grasp.

Apple CAN do an LCD iMac this year if they wanted to. The problem is, at what cost?

If Apple were to go LCD iMac, you'd likely see the following:

*bottom iMac goes bye-bye, leaving Apple with no sub-$1200 desktop consumer product. That market is entirely left to PC makers.

*middle iMac is spec'd like the current low-end iMac

*top iMac is spec'd like current middle iMac

*things like combo DVD/CD-RW drives and good graphics cards(GeForce 2MX) that might have made it to the middle iMac end up being only on the high-end model(if that)

*things like the advanced bus on the iMac(DDR-RAM, 133MHz, 4xAGP) could get pushed back to next rev due to heightened cost pressures


I'm not going to say that cpu MHz will be less(i.e. Apple buys slower/cheaper G3s to save money) since that is so key marketing-wise. But much of the rest of the computer could suffer.

Sorry to be Scrooge here, but specing comps is all about realistic choices(and margins).

Note: It's possible that they could go with a small LCD (13" viewable), which would be cheaper than the 15" LCD I'm thinking of, but that wouldn't be much of an improvement over the current screen, now would it?).

--lee



[This message has been edited by lee vieira (edited 05-22-2001).]

[scaught]

there HAS to be a mac product thats under a 1000 dollars. unless they dropped the specs, the bottom mac with a 15" flatscreen would be too expensive. unless they went with some sort of G3 cube..hmm. theres an idea.

------------------
you're going to have my foot at your lip in a minute, young man.

scott

[bradoesch]

Apple can afford to make LCD iMacs. That's pretty straightforward.
The problems is about how much money they will make if they choose to use LCD screens instead of CRTs. Apple likes to make a lot of money on their computers. I read somewhere they make more $$$ that other companies because they charge more or whatnot.
But the more LCDs they buy, the lower the price they will be. Maybe they should just buy Samsung! Hahaha, Samsung is likely 100s of times bigger than Apple. But if they chose to use 15" LCDs in the iMacs, they could get them cheaper, since they are buying more. Also, will the average consumer even know the difference between LCD and CRT? Will they see 15" and think it's the same as a 15" CRT? They'll notice it's smaller, but other than that...will they care??

------------------
Why 1984, won't be
like "1984"

[pliny]

well i just ran the specs i posted above to see how high the $$$ would be and how fast the $$$ would get up there. it does seem pretty expensive to put an lcd at the low end and middle and at the same time boost the mhz and include cd-rw and the new graphics. maybe graphiteboi has the right idea by thinking that on the imac a flat panel would be an se-type option.hmmm.

------------------
"i look in your general direction"

[GraphiteBoi]

I do not see Apple making different models for the iMac in terms of the casing. The iMac is an all-in-one. They will either all be LCD or none...

------------------
i Think, therefore iMac.

[lee vieira]

Well, I just confirmed what I've been saying

Went over to dell.com, the second Mecca of suckilicious Windoze computing(after MS, of course).

Going 15" LCD on their comps added anywhere from $270 to $440 to the price. That was OVER the price of an included 17" CRT(!).

Say what you will about CRTs, but they be cheeeeeeeap. iMacs w/LCDs wouldn't be.

--lee

[This message has been edited by lee vieira (edited 05-22-2001).]

[MaxMac]

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...c/features.asp
If Steve J. was serious about quitting the CRT arena will the new iMacs look like this? It looks like Pana took a page from Apple. Still a crappy OS (Windows of course).

------------------
I love deadlines. They make a whooshing sound as they pass by

[pliny]

Originally posted by MaxMac:
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...c/features.asp
If Steve J. was serious about quitting the CRT arena will the new iMacs look like this? It looks like Pana took a page from Apple. Still a crappy OS (Windows of course).

they certainly did keep an imac handy when they built this thing. huh--$1999 for a flat panel all in one with a celeron @400 mhz and a tiny 6 g hd.

------------------
"i look in your general direction"

[lee vieira]

Yeah, the Panasonic really doesn't look good. And it's definitely overpriced for what you get.

Its a good warning of what would happen to the iMac line if it went LCD too early(i.e. before prices came down more).

--lee

[newportnews]

I do not think that Apple will move to LCDs in the iMac until the price of the 15" screens can be comparable to that of a CRT.

The iMac is still one of Apple's best sellers and with their new ability to etch designs into the plastic I think we will see at least 1 year of the "new" iMacs before a major redesign.

I would much rather see a major spec upgrade to the iMac than an LCD screen... I think I am the only person left who prefers a good CRT (which the current iMac has) to an LCD. OS X looks much nicer on the CRT on my iMac SE than on my iBook 500 screen.

Here is what I would like to see from the Apple Line:

iMac

633 Mhz G3 (133 Mhz Bus)
128 MB RAM
20 GB HD
8 MB Ati Rage 128 Pro
Cd-RW Drive
2 USB
2 Firewire
Price: $899

iMac CD-RW

766 Mhz G3 (133 Mhz G3)
192 MB RAM
40 GB HD
16 MB Ati Rage 128 Pro
CD-RW Drive
2 USB
2 Firewire
Price: $1199

iMac Combo

900 Mhz G3 (133 Mhz Bus)
256 MB RAM
60 GB HD
Cd-RW/DVD Combo Drive
32 MB Radeon
2 USB
2 FW
Price: $1499

These would all have the same size CRT as the current iMac except it now support 1280 X 1024 @ millions of colors.



[This message has been edited by newportnews (edited 05-23-2001).]

[GraphiteBoi]

900 Mhz? I wish...

------------------
i Think, therefore iMac.

[topdown5]

Let's look at the situation from a business viewpoint. True, converting the iMac to an LCD model from a CRT model would add some extra cost. But here are some things to consider:

-Apple is no longer offering any type of CRT display
-With economies of scale, Apple will most likely recieve serious price breaks from suppliers
-Apple needs to re-invent its iMac line to keep alive: the same old thing with a big speed bump just won't be the kind of hit it needs

Now, let's look at what the Apple family of computers will look like after MWNY this July:

-PowerMac G4 with choice of LCD display (15",17",22")
-PowerBook G4 with built-in LCD display (15.2")
-iMac G3 with built-in LCD display (15")
-iBook G3 with built-in LCD display (12.1")

If Apple removes the Cube from its product line, and converts the iMac to an LCD model, the company will return to a four-point family. Again, I stress that limited displays to LCD only will get Apple a comparative advantage through economies of scale. Don't be surprised if this happens in two months.

-Gabriel

[pliny]

i think a mhz, bus, and graphics bump may be more critical given the requirements of X and so it would seem to me, assuming my liquid 8 ball is working properly, that we would necessarily see bumps all around. the quesiton as lee has pointed out, how affordably can all that be done with an lcd tossed in to boot? apple is moving to lcd as everyone knows and they are still expensive, but what a splash it'd be if they could do it. i give it a 40-60 shot.

------------------
"i look in your general direction"

[tomywomy]

While I too am very skeptical about us seeing flat screens in iMacs very soon, allow me to play devil's advocate:
1) Flat panel screens will allow apple to increase viewing area and resolution of monitor without increasing size of all in one unit.
2) While not saving anywhere near the increased cost of a flat panel, apple could save some money on materials in terms of having less parts/plastics in the new imac (I know this is a huge stretch - maybe saving only 5 bucks for all I know)
3) Eliminating the option of CRT creates a huge point of differentiation (although this is not necessarily a great point of differentiation) - this is similar to Subaru where every car is 4 wheel drive no matter what.
4) Economies of scale - the Dells for example are $250 more because the flat panels are a rarely bought option and so the volumes are low. At high volumes and long production runs the cost differences could theoretically be eliminated altogether as the actual raw material costs for a flat panel are dirt cheap. In fact, if the iMac was a flat panel system Apple would quickly become the worlds largest seller of flat panel computer screens. And we know that apple loves to sell hardware.

Anyhow, I guess what I'm saying is that there is a chance, although I think less than 50% likely in July.

Changing the subject slightly, what can Apple add to their consumer non-portable that would attract many more new buyers to the platform? It's all got to do with thid digital hub vision and I'd love to see some way to add a remote control unit that could control iTunes through my stereo system even though the iMac itself is in a totally different room.

[ericdelangen]

i think apple could pull off adding lcds to the iMac if they follow their own formula from what they did with the iBook. Make all of the models the same... ie all with 600 MHz G3, 128 RAM, 40 Gig hdd, etc. and make the differentiating factor the removable drive. You could have the cd-rom model at the same price point iMacs begin at now, $899 and then $1099 for the DVD, $1199 for the cd-rw, and $1499 for the dvd/cd-r/w combo model. If they added a 133 MHz bus then it would be a 667 MHz G3, which would seem even better. Realistically I don't think we're going to see anything beyond that... 733 if we're really lucky.

[lee vieira]

Eric,

There is no way in holy heck Apple can make an LCD-iMac for $899 right now.

Maybe if it were a 12.1" screen, a la the iBook. I wouldn't want one

--lee

[ericdelangen]

fine... drop the lowend model and start it off at $1100 then. There's no way you can convince me that apple can't make an lcd iMac for $1100. I'm sure they've still got a ton of the old style machines around in the channel that that could sell as a low end model just to keep a maching under $1000. They could even bring back a $799 model. But now you're all going to jump all over me and tell me that apple will never produce an iMac line that has more than one form factor... all or nothing.

If apple ditches the cube, which many people think they might, the iMac could be moved a little higher on the scale with lcds and this way there could be an entry level iMac with the crt for dirt cheap... an "iMac classic" if you will. This is the last thing I think is going to happen, but it's an easier way to justify my thoughts about a lcd iMac.

[lee vieira]

I'm not going to 'jump all over you', I'm just saying be realistic about what Apple can and cannot do, or you'll be very disappointed every time they show new hardware.

Face it...if someone could make a $899 LCD-all-in-one desktop, you would've seen it already (probably from eMachines, and it'd be blowing up all the time )

And yeah, Apple CAN make an $1100 LCD-iMac, though I doubt it'd be spec'd all that great.

--lee

[pliny]

Originally posted by lee vieira:
I'm not going to 'jump all over you', I'm just saying be realistic about what Apple can and cannot do, or you'll be very disappointed every time they show new hardware.

Face it...if someone could make a $899 LCD-all-in-one desktop, you would've seen it already (probably from eMachines, and it'd be blowing up all the time )

And yeah, Apple CAN make an $1100 LCD-iMac, though I doubt it'd be spec'd all that great.

--lee

hey who besides apple makes a worthwhile all in one for $899 now? or $1199? hah, nobody! except for the performa lc (RIP) apple's always done a neato job with them so lee keep your fingers crossed. i hope we see one soon so i can post a raspberry in your general direction.


------------------
"i look in your general direction"

[brucewayne]

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...c/features.asp
If Steve J. was serious about quitting the CRT arena will the new iMacs look like this? It looks like Pana took a page from Apple. Still a crappy OS (Windows of course).

My god, but that be one UGLY thing.



[This message has been edited by brucewayne (edited 05-24-2001).]

[lee vieira]

Originally posted by brucewayne:
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_el...c/features.asp
If Steve J. was serious about quitting the CRT arena will the new iMacs look like this? It looks like Pana took a page from Apple. Still a crappy OS (Windows of course).

My god, but that be one UGLY thing.

Yeah, I've seen the Pany LCD all-in-one before.

Anyone wanna guess how much it costs?

$2000.
http://www.prodcat.panasonic.com/sho...=True&active=1

Maybe someday someone will eventually believe me when I tell them what is and is not possible in current computer manufacturing

--lee

[ericdelangen]

hey lee-

you might be right in thinking that the iMac will got through some more revisions... or at least one more before it goes lcd, but I'm sure you've seen all the posts over in the iBook forum and elsewhere going on and on about apple's supposed plans to introduce a new iBook in july with a bigger wide-aspect display and color choices, right? Color choices were something that everyone was expecting to come along, but a new machine with a bigger screen?! Doesn't seem likely. But what if... like some people are starting to think... this is really the new iMac being discussed instead of some new iBook? Wouldn't that make a lot of sense? Apple could be using a 14.1" display from a laptop manufacturer in a new iMac since that's a pretty standard size in the laptop world. The smaller lcd would be cheaper wouldn't it? Making it more possible that apple could put it into a consumer machine?! 14.1" wouldn't be bad though... it would still be confortably viewed at 1024x768 resolution like a 15" lcd. Any thoughts?

[supernature]

My inkling exactly. This new supposed wide-screen LCD for the next iBooks sounds like the new iMac instead. Now what I don't get is the "wide-screen" part. I hope Apple doesn't go LCD and sacrifice even a smaller but LCD screen.

If anything a 14.1" LCD screen is perfect for the iMac. It's slightly larger than the current CRT and takes up much less space. My estimates of the iMac pricing... I guess it's possible to stay at the same price point.


$75 - 400mhz G3
$100 - logic board (firewire/usb/agp/etc)
$50 - casing
$200 - LCD monitor
$75 - 10gig HD
$50 - 64MB RAM
$100 - Rage Pro card
$50 - CD
$100 - bundled software
$100 - keyboard/mouse
= $900 --> $899

$150 - 533mhz G3
$100 - logic board (firewire/usb/agp/etc)
$50 - casing
$200 - LCD monitor
$150 - 20gig HD
$50 - 64MB RAM
$150 - Radeon card
$150 - CD-RW
$100 - bundled software
$100 - mouse/keyboard
= $1200 --> $1199

$250 - 667mhz G3
$100 - logic board (firewire/usb/agp/etc)
$50 - casing
$200 - LCD monitor
$250 - 40gig HD
$100 - 128MB RAM
$150 - Radeon card
$200 - Combo Drive
$100 - bundled software
$100 - mouse/keyboard
= $1500 --> $1499

[pliny]

Originally posted by supernature:
My inkling exactly. This new supposed wide-screen LCD for the next iBooks sounds like the new iMac instead. Now what I don't get is the "wide-screen" part. I hope Apple doesn't go LCD and sacrifice even a smaller but LCD screen.

If anything a 14.1" LCD screen is perfect for the iMac. It's slightly larger than the current CRT and takes up much less space. My estimates of the iMac pricing... I guess it's possible to stay at the same price point.

news out of taiwan pointing to a 14.1" lcd imac--interesting! but how do you figure 64 ram given X's requirements?

------------------
"i look in your general direction"

[shmerek]

[jtg]

Apple needs a lower priced entry level machine. Imagine one with the least expensive components available, in the current enclosure (no tooling costs) with a special low cost version of Earthlink (or other ISP) included for one year and exclusive online site with forums and interactive tutor for beginners (Apple Digital Mentor).

iMac 300
300MHz PowerPC G3
128MB SDRAM
7 GB drive & CD-ROM
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8 MB + 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch CRT display
One USB port, No FireWire (Or one of each)
$499 (Under 500 is a magic price point)

iMac 400
400MHz PowerPC G3 + 128MB SDRAM
10GB Ultra ATA drive + DVD/CD-ROM
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 8 MB + 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch CRT display
Two USB ports (Or one of each)
$799

iMac 500
500MHz PowerPC G3 + 128MB SDRAM
20GB Ultra ATA drive + DVD/CD-RW
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 16 MB + 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
56K internal modem
15-inch CRT display
Two USB ports + Two FireWire ports
$1199

iMac Pro 600
600 MHz PowerPC G3 + 128 MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive + DVD/CD-RW
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 16 MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet + 56K internal modem
15-inch LCD display
Two USB ports + Two FireWire ports
$1599

iMac Expert 700
700 MHz PowerPC G3 + 128 MB SDRAM
50GB Ultra ATA drive + DVD-R/CD-RW
RAGE 128 Pro w/ 16 MB
10/100BASE-T Ethernet + 56K internal modem
15-inch LCD display
Two USB ports + Two FireWire ports
$1999

Thus marketing a basic, entry level machine plus a good, better, best iMac lineup.

Leave 17" LCD for bundle with G4 Cube.

(600 and 700 would require new enclosure design and tooling.)

Apple might consider the possibility of offering a guaranteed trade-in value with the entry level, 400, and 500 to acquire a 700 Expert with LCD or step-up to G4 Cube.

This is probably too much to ask, but I hope someone in Cupertino will make note!

jtg





[This message has been edited by jtg (edited 05-27-2001).]

[BrunoBruin]

I'd love to see an LCD iMac, but I agree with those who think the prices are still too high. The cheapest iBook right now is $1,299; how do you figure they could take what are essentially the same guts, put them in a different (tho less-rugged) enclosure, add a LARGER screen, and sell it for $400 less than the iBook?

There was screaming when Apple bumped the $799 iMac to $899; imagine if they jumped to $1,099 or $1,199.

I also think an LCD screen has to be at least 15 inches. Not 13, not 14. Even tho there is more real estate on a 15-inch LCD than a CRT, the iMac is a consumer machine and perceptions are critical. A big percentage of buyers are either buying their first computer or aren't that well-versed in specifications. It's like the MHz gap all over again. "Oh, this iMac only has a 14-inch (LCD) screen and 500MHz but that Dell has a 15-inch (CRT) and 800MHz." And then imagine your average CompUSA or Circuit City salesman trying to explain "Oh, no, that smaller monitor is actually bigger and that slower processor is actually faster." Hoo boy.

------------------
"I'm an award-winning
creative, the rules of society
no longer apply to me."

[supernature]

OS X only requires 128MB of memory because of Classic. Besides, Apple would just make it only 64MB, even though it really needs 128MB of RAM to be more useful (especially for faster processors), only for the sole purpose of making the computer sound less expensive. Otherwise, hopefully, OS X will be straightened out by July (which is the time I assume Apple will make OS X the default OS), and all of Apple apps have been carbonized, and a majority of the well known apps will be carbonized if not already by then.

But really, you can get by with 64MB of RAM.

In regards to the difference between a new iBook costing $1299 vs. a new LCD iMac that costs $899. Well, I guess you get what you pay for. You want portability, you've got it with the iBook. Kind of like why pay $3499 for a 500mhz G4 Powerbook, when you can get a G4 Cube with a 15" LCD monitor for a thousand dollar less.

Even though the next iMac may have an LCD projector. It still won't make it a portable computer. It'll still be a luggable computer. Just easier to lug around now.

[GraphiteBoi]

In response to jtg, I highly doubt there would be 5 iMacs to choose from. Also, there would never be an iMac for $2000. You have the words "pro" and "expert" on the end of a couple of your iMacs and that should tell you that it's not going to happen. As for an iMac under $500, never going to happen. A 300 Mhz iMac would be going backwards from where they are now. Apple would never do that.
The iMac is still the consumer mac. That is why they are low priced and lower performing than the pro towers. Mac is going for simplicity. I would look for 3 different iMacs, any more than that goes against the direction Apple is moving towards.

------------------
i Think, therefore iMac.

[This message has been edited by GraphiteBoi (edited 05-29-2001).]

[neilw]

The cheapest iBook right now is $1,299; how do you figure they could take what are essentially the same guts, put them in a different (tho less-rugged) enclosure, add a LARGER screen, and sell it for $400 less than the iBook?

Three things come to mind:

1) Battery. Don't need one with the iMac.
2) Hard drive. Those little babies in the iBook are quite expensive compared to the now nearly free 3.5" drives.
3) CD/DVD drive. Don't know for sure but I'd imagine that the super-slimline drives in the iBook cost somewhat more than the regular kind.

I don't imagine that case and assembly costs would be *that* much different, though still certainly cheaper for the iMac.

That being said, I agree that a low-end LCD iMac is unlikely. A 15" LCD iMac SE, on the other hand, *nearly* fulfills the longstanding desire for a 17" CRT iMac (though it'd still be frustrating not to be able to put a 19" monitor on a consumer-grade Mac.)

[hshafez]

I really dont think that the imac needs an lcd screen. If you want to know what apple should do check out companys like dell and compaq are doing. Most PC have AGP 4x and no less than 16 (mostly 32) Mb of graphics card. Nearly all have PC 133 Ram. Only the real low end systems have 15" monitor. So it should be possible to so the following.

imac 533 Mhz G3
128Mb PC 133 RAM
17" CRT
15GB Hard disk
ATI RAGE Pro 16Mb AGP 4x slot

imac 633 Mhz G3
256Mb PC 133 RAM
17" CRT
30GB Hard disk
ATI RAGE Pro 32Mb AGP 4x slot

imac SE 733 Mhz G3
256Mb PC 133 RAM
17" CRT
40GB Hard disk
ATI RAGE Radeon 32Mb AGP 4x slot

The entry level could go 15" CRT but the rest must larger than 15". You will have the choice of optical drive on the imac same as ibook. And possibly the hard disk size. I am not sure if the SE should have 32Mb of ATI Radeon becuase that is more than that of the g4 466. But if you look at pc companies you do get a geforce 2 or radeon for any system over $1000 or at least $1000. The prices should stay the same

And no LCD please. They should invest more in the hardware instead of forceing us to pay for the prevlige of using LCD instead of CRT.

[emperor667]

Nice speculations, but what I really want is an upgradable graphics card.
Does anyone know if it is possible to change the current ATI card in the iMac for another one.
As far as I know it is fitted in the AGP2x port, so it must be upgradable, isn't it?

[koffedrnkr]

since we're all guessing here.......

the next imac will use a 14.1'' or 15.2'' flat screen.... yes, it will cost more to build but LCD prices are dropping and they have that nice investment in samsung to provide adequate supply and price.
apple has good margins on their machines, and it would mean taking a hit there in the short term until falling LCD prices catch up, plus tacking a bit more onto the existing price...i wouldn't be surprised to see all imac models go flat in july. it's too strong a marketing advantage to pass up. i can see steve at macworld now "apple is the first computer manufacturer in history to offer LCD's standard across their entire consumer desktop line!". not to mention that the thermal & space savings ( CRT's are big and hot) would allow them to not only add new hardware, but craft an even sleeker enclosure.

some off-the-cuff math. 15'' flat screen =$599 retail at apple store right now. apple has around 27% margins on hardware. this means unit cost is around $437 (including the enclosure & connectors). take that stuff away and i figure the cost of the screen itself is around $350. now subtract the cost of an imac CRT and what are you left with $200? $250? that's seems like it's in the ballpark. manage to get that difference under $200 from existing machines and i think it could fly.

FWIW, here's my guess.....

a low end model with would have LCD, a 500mhz G3, basic CD-ROM drive & rage 128 w/8megs RAM for $999.

the midline will have LCD, 600mhz G3, CDRW (with combo a BTO option at apple store), nvidia geforce2mx graphics card w/16megs of RAM and be priced at $1299.

the highline would have LCD, a new 700mhz G3, CDRW/DVD combo, nvidia geforce2mx for $1599

[hshafez]

I am not guessing or speculating. what i just posted was what apple would be selling if it wanted PC users to migrate to Mac. Or in other words if compaqe and gateway were to make Macs thats what they would be selling. Dont look at IBM they make overpriced models compared to the rest of the PC world (same as Apple )

[koffedrnkr]

hshafez,
the system you want sounds more pro than consumer. if apple built a new enclosure that was large enough for a 17'' monitor and had enough cooling to accomodate a 32meg RAM video card, it would be larger, hotter and more expensive...and who needs that?
apple cannot and should not try to compete on cost or features. the wintel world will always have access to cheaper parts and will always be able to assemble cheap systems. to compete, apple needs to work on designing smarter, cooler solutions that people are willing to pay extra for. they need to focus on how their systems are not just different, but better. LCD's are a marketing advantage that anyone with eyes can see for themselves. apple is a technology driven company, and flat screens are new technology. big CRT's would be a big step back for the imac. that being said, i'd love to see more RAM and a better video card included. with the thermal savings of LCD's, perhaps we will.....

[supernature]

I'm wondering what processor are going to be in the next iMac line.

It's either going to be

400, 533, 667
466, 600, 733
500, 600, 700

[hshafez]

If you remember at the start of this year. Steves Jobs said that apple will try to atract wintel users. The only way to do that is to provide them with a machine that has similar specs to that of a PC but which is still a mac making it better.

But I do agree with you that the specs I posted are not consumer level , But that is what the PC market is delivering. They are dilevering what we call Pro systems for consumer price. So if apple wants to atract wintel users then this is a way out.

Of course there might be other ways out, but i bet they would be all harder to acheive.

So what I am saying is that if apple wants to do what it says it wants to do. Then they can sell imacs with those specs. But what ever they do it must be significant.

[hshafez]

also i forgot to say that all imacs must be 500 Mhz and above. When was the last time we had a consumer portable that was faster than a consumer desktop?

[dakiller]

Hi, I live in Korea (where Samsung is..) and I'm seeing from a few Mac websites that 14 inch LCD is being made for Apple. They aren't sure if it's for new Pismo or new iMac.

Oh, I just hope it will be for iMac. 14 inch would be profitable, wouldn't it?

[ajprice]

I'm working on some Photoshop mockups, they're not done yet but I'll post here again when they are. I also think that keeping the same MHz across the range and having different drives in each model is the way Apple will probably spec the new iMacs, to put it in line with the new iBooks.

[palws]

A lot info on this thread. Thanks.

Bill

[Chimpmaster]

Im not really adding much value with this comment, but Im going to make it anyway.

Lcd imac - yummy - sounds fantastic.

I really hope they do it - I will want one for sure. Might be time to sell my ibook.

But Theyd better include a better video card this time. That is more important - Radeon or gforce 2 mx is a must this time around. And faster processors please. And the combo drive in the top spec. Maybe in all of them.

[ericdelangen]

we can be pretty confident in somethings making it into the next iMac revision:

- Combo dvd/cd-r/w drives
- at least 128 mb RAM
- OS X as default os

there are somethings that probably have around a 50/50 chance, but everyone is hoping for (including me):

- lcd monitor with new enclosure
- better vid card

But I still think all the iMacs will be at one level with a choice of optical drive as the defining feature. Most options will be bto, just like the iBook line.

I say if flat lcd were to put in imac, GREAT, more choices for consumers. But think Apples should put in high quality flat lcd screen such as the one made from Sony or other known high quality flact lcd maker, not some cheap lcd. Go with high quality and apples can't go wrong.

[aaroncsmith]

In case you all haven't noticed, Apple has a habit with the past few product intros of actually giving customers what they want. As far as I can tell, it started with the first firewire iBooks.

I was at the keynote for their intro, and Jobs actually asked the crowd what the #1 thing they wanted from the new iBooks. The crowd yelled out "Firewire" and Jobs clicked his clicker and Firewire popped up on the feature list on the slide show. Then he asked for the #2 thing people wanted. The crowd hollered "DVD drive" and Jobs hit his clicker and showed that DVD was on the iBook SE.

Ever since that day, Jobs has made a point of showing us on new product intros that they added something we wanted. For the new G4 towers, it was an extra PCI slot, 4x AGP, and GeForce cards. For the flower power iMacs, it was CD-RW drives. For the TiBook it was a thinner case, a G4, and more screen real estate. For the new iBooks, it was a bigger screen, and a smaller case.

They are not pulling these features out of their asses. They are polling current users, finding out what we want, and putting in the next product rev. I believe they even sent out a questionnaire for some TiBook owners about what they would like to see in the next rev.

Bearing that in mind, what are the features that we have been clamouring for in the next iMac? Off the top of my head:

1. Bigger screen
2. Faster Graphics card
3. Faster CPUs


That is about all people really want to see in the new iMacs, and that is all we will probably get. Going to an LCD at this point is just a waste, unless they are able to do it at current price points for a larger than 13.8" LCD at 1024x768 or better.

You can add other items to this list (SuperDrive, TV-in, video spanning) but nobody has been asking for an LCD.