[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by design219 

I don't understand how Trump's remarks about John McCain went away so easily.

“He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

Being captured is not something someone intends. Substitute the word "wounded" for "captured" (both things that sometimes happen in war) and it's easier to see how reprehensible that statement really is.

I really thought that would do Trump in.

it plays to macho bullshit his base adores, I guess. You only get captured if you make a mistake or are inferior. Ergo, A good soldier doesn't get captured.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by design219 

I don't understand how Trump's remarks about John McCain went away so easily.

“He’s not a war hero,” said Trump. “He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

Being captured is not something someone intends. Substitute the word "wounded" for "captured" (both things that sometimes happen in war) and it's easier to see how reprehensible that statement really is.

I really thought that would do Trump in.

Trump supports aren't McCain fans. For most of them McCain is too "moderate".

OAW

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Why would you say it is not possible? The west has undergone reforms and revolutions as new rights and freedoms were established through the ages. Monarchies overthrown, churches disempowered, votes for women etc. Its a dangerous business for sure, lives were always lost but thats how change has been accomplished before. It requires substantial risk.

I didn't say that it is impossible to win cultural fights, but these fights were waged forcefully. We are already waging a very forceful war against terrorism and violent extremism.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Trump supports aren't McCain fans. For most of them McCain is too "moderate".

OAW

That might be closer to the truth, but then that means 30% of the republican base is willing to throw veterans under the bus if they don't like them. Plausible, but hypocritical.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by OAW 

Trump supports aren't McCain fans. For most of them McCain is too "moderate".

OAW

That's bullshit.
Trump is less of a war monger than McCain.

If McCain had his way, the US would be invading 180 countries.
Trump seems to be far less willing to randomly invade countries and do nation building.

-t

[subego]

I actually like McCain, but I think an argument can be made as to whether he's a war hero.

Trump is pointing out the oddity in him being a hero for what happened to him, rather than what he did.

AFAIK, what he did was conducted himself as he was supposed to being the highest ranking POW. Did that make him a war hero?

Again... I like the guy.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's bullshit.

Great. Now look at the rest of the issues.

Lindsay Graham is s giant hawk too, but I don't think anyone would call him incredibly conservative.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I actually like McCain, but I think an argument can be made as to whether he's a war hero.

Trump is pointing out the oddity in him being a hero for what happened to him, rather than what he did.

AFAIK, what he did was conducted himself as he was supposed to being the highest ranking POW. Did that make him a war hero?

Again... I like the guy.

isnt it for surviving torture? Because that tends to break people.

[subego]

I'd counter that by saying there were a bunch of POWs who were tortured. Do we consider them war heroes?

I don't think we do. I could be wrong.

And that's not to downplay the experience of being tortured, I'm only pointing out how it seems to me when someone generally uses the term "war hero", they're talking about something else.

[The Final Dakar]

I think we need a poll

[subego]

I'd vote "not war hero", but people are free to tell me I'm an ass for thinking that.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's bullshit.
Trump is less of a war monger than McCain.

If McCain had his way, the US would be invading 180 countries.
Trump seems to be far less willing to randomly invade countries and do nation building.

-t

And on this I agree with you wholeheartedly! But how does it make what I said BS? McCain IS too "moderate" for Trump supporters on a whole host of issues. Immigration being a major one! And we've already established how hardcore Trump supports are on that issue. The conservative wing of the GOP complained that McCain and Romney were both "too moderate" when they campaigned against Obama.

OAW

[Chongo]

It does not help the cause of "moderate Islam" when you have Imam's like Choudry go unchallenged.
https://twitter.com/anjemchoudary?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/anjemchoudary/st...57031582404608

https://twitter.com/anjemchoudary/st...12550925123589
Islam will outlaw

ALCOHOL
PORK
GAMBLING
PORN
USURY
PROMISCUITY
FREEMIXING
GAYS
CINEMAS
IDOLATRY
INSURANCE
STOCKS/SHARES
INSULTING PROPHETS

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

It does not help the cause of "moderate Islam" when you have Imam's like Choudry go unchallenged.
https://twitter.com/anjemchoudary?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
https://twitter.com/anjemchoudary/st...57031582404608

Does all of the mockery of his tweets count?

He's also just an activist, not an imam.

About | Anjem Choudary

[el chupacabra]

Muslim moderates have denounced the extremism. In the ~70's - 90's they pushed back hard. And the extremists said "fine, this is where we start killing as many civilians as we can". Many protests or gatherings were bombed. Presidents and government officials were assassinated to the point only psychotics would even risk running. (These extremists and their whole way of thinking were created by the US mind you.)

Part of the problem is Europeans, Russians, and yes even good ol patriot Americans, fail to denounce their own government corporate complex who sold modern technology & the full arsenal of military grade weapons to countries with an 1890's infrastructure. These nations never evolved the countermeasures to control such technology. Even if they knew how, they dont have the money. Just a few extremists can take out every leader and thousands of civilians with a few 1st world weapons.

Fixing regions like this is more complex than running out the corrupt government and installing a democracy because you also have to install an infrastructure to track internet/phone conversation, cameras at every street corner, a forced education system that keeps people out of religious gangs etc.. (Bush & his czar didn't understand this when he fired the government of Iraq creating the insurgency - then blamed it on Muslim belief system)

Meanwhile the west, who is guilty, instead of acknowledging their pain, blames them all, calls all Muslims terrorists. In light of that I'd be surprised if many didnt start turning to the terrorists for guidance. Which we already see happening. For them, lesser of 2 evils sort of thing.
I doubt this will get better soon. In the most powerful country in the world the only way to get people into politics has been to relegate it to a political football game of Red team vs Blue team. Neither team is reasonable or consistent with their beliefs. They have no idea about the truth of whats going on in the world and don't care. Just present it on the news in a high energy entertaining fashion We'll watch. To half the country, Palestine, Afghanistan, & Iraq are all the same thing; evil doer Muslims vs the good guy west.

[OAW]

^^^^^

This!!!!!

OAW

[besson3c]

And countries like Indonesia and Turkey are the same too.

Well said!

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Islam will outlaw

ALCOHOL
PORK
GAMBLING
PORN
USURY
PROMISCUITY
FREEMIXING
GAYS
CINEMAS
IDOLATRY
INSURANCE
STOCKS/SHARES
INSULTING PROPHETS

I'm sure you'll correct me where I'm wrong but your lot among others in the US still aren't keen on gays;
Dry counties are quite common;
Gambling is mostly restricted to Vegas, Reno, Atlantic City and Indian reservations;
Promiscuity and porn are much frowned upon, mostly by hypocrites but still;
Its my understanding that all the Abrahamic religions take issue with idolatry and none of them seem to take kindly to their lead characters being insulted either;
I'm assuming free mixing is some kind of racial thing which obviously still has issues in all sorts of places in the US;
I had no idea Islam banned insurance. Is that the one that really scares you guys? You think they'll replace the dreaded Obamacare with the even worse Islamacare?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Muslim moderates have denounced the extremism. In the ~70's - 90's they pushed back hard. And the extremists said "fine, this is where we start killing as many civilians as we can". Many protests or gatherings were bombed. Presidents and government officials were assassinated to the point only psychotics would even risk running. (These extremists and their whole way of thinking were created by the US mind you.)

Part of the problem is Europeans, Russians, and yes even good ol patriot Americans, fail to denounce their own government corporate complex who sold modern technology & the full arsenal of military grade weapons to countries with an 1890's infrastructure. These nations never evolved the countermeasures to control such technology. Even if they knew how, they dont have the money. Just a few extremists can take out every leader and thousands of civilians with a few 1st world weapons.

Fixing regions like this is more complex than running out the corrupt government and installing a democracy because you also have to install an infrastructure to track internet/phone conversation, cameras at every street corner, a forced education system that keeps people out of religious gangs etc.. (Bush & his czar didn't understand this when he fired the government of Iraq creating the insurgency - then blamed it on Muslim belief system)

Meanwhile the west, who is guilty, instead of acknowledging their pain, blames them all, calls all Muslims terrorists. In light of that I'd be surprised if many didnt start turning to the terrorists for guidance. Which we already see happening. For them, lesser of 2 evils sort of thing.
I doubt this will get better soon. In the most powerful country in the world the only way to get people into politics has been to relegate it to a political football game of Red team vs Blue team. Neither team is reasonable or consistent with their beliefs. They have no idea about the truth of whats going on in the world and don't care. Just present it on the news in a high energy entertaining fashion We'll watch. To half the country, Palestine, Afghanistan, & Iraq are all the same thing; evil doer Muslims vs the good guy west.

I find myself agreeing with a lot of this though I think the Dark Age morality is a bigger problem than the 1890s infrastructure.
We need to be careful of certain things. First we have to take care that our definition of 'moderate muslim' doesn't stop at "Any muslim who doesn't want to suicide bomb the west." This is a path that almost everyone seems to be headed down at the moment. Its largely because people aren't making a deserved distinction between muslims who live in the west and those who live in Islamic countries.

The Islamic world has ignore the human rights movement, women's suffrage and the sexual revolution. They desparately need all three and to let their collective hair down a bit before we can expect to see the changes that everyone needs to see.
If they all got drunk and laid more often I'm sure they would be a totally different prospect. I'm not even kidding, so much of their undesirable social traits seem rooted in sexual frustration.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

You're honestly trying to draw parallels?

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I'm sure you'll correct me where I'm wrong but your lot among others in the US still aren't keen on gays;

They aren't commanded to throw them off buildings, though. The usual fate for gays in Muslim countries.

 

Dry counties are quite common;

Dry counties don't give you 20 lashes and prison time for drinking within them.

Gambling is mostly restricted to Vegas, Reno, Atlantic City and Indian reservations;

Gambling is forbidden within Islam, not restricted. The former means you're beaten and imprisoned, the latter means you may get a fine.

Promiscuity and porn are much frowned upon, mostly by hypocrites but still;

See above. In Islamic countries they kill you for sleeping around, or being a prostitute. Especially women... how they treat women is barbaric.

Its my understanding that all the Abrahamic religions take issue with idolatry and none of them seem to take kindly to their lead characters being insulted either;

Not even comparable, see above. Yet again, they will kill you for drawing or making jokes about Muhammad.

I'm assuming free mixing is some kind of racial thing which obviously still has issues in all sorts of places in the US;

WTF? False equivalence much? Geez.

I had no idea Islam banned insurance. Is that the one that really scares you guys? You think they'll replace the dreaded Obamacare with the even worse Islamacare?

and they ban loans, unless it's to a non-Muslim, then they're allowed to charge as much interest as they want. (Plus you have to pay an egregious tax just for not being Muslim.) Also, don't forget that they kill you if you ever join Islam and try to leave, period. Even the "moderates" agree on that.

[besson3c]

Tightpants: you do realize that what you describe isn't the case in all Muslim countries, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Indonesia

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Really? Well, only if you aren't Muslim. If you claim to be Muslim, all bets are off, apparently. Indonesia's Aceh introduces strict anti-gay law - BBC News

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Really? Well, only if you aren't Muslim. If you claim to be Muslim, all bets are off, apparently. Indonesia's Aceh introduces strict anti-gay law - BBC News

In a province of Indonesia, but you missed my point, and that is that you can't just generalize about all Muslim areas of the world like that. To many Muslims, some of these belief systems may very well be as offensive as some of the Westboro Baptist beliefs are to Christians.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

In a province of Indonesia, but you missed my point, and that is that you can't just generalize about all Muslim areas of the world like that. To many Muslims, some of these belief systems may very well be as offensive as some of the Westboro Baptist beliefs are to Christians.

You absolutely can, and should, because it's the norm in Muslim countries. Very sadly, countries where they aren't stoning gays to death (or simply throwing them off buildings) are the rare exception. When you add in the "honor" killings, regular attempts at genocide, and the complete lack of anything even resembling gender, ethnic, or religious equality, it makes me wonder why the radical Left defends them so aggressively. While many Christians find the WBC repugnant, they definitely aren't dragging its members out into the street and cutting their heads off, saying there's any real equivalence there is, at best, dishonest and insulting.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

You absolutely can, and should, because it's the norm in Muslim countries. Very sadly, countries where they aren't stoning gays to death (or simply throwing them off buildings) are the rare exception. When you add in the "honor" killings, regular attempts at genocide, and the complete lack of anything even resembling gender, ethnic, or religious equality, it makes me wonder why the radical Left defends them so aggressively. While many Christians find the WBC repugnant, they definitely aren't dragging its members out into the street and cutting their heads off, saying there's any real equivalence there is, at best, dishonest and insulting.

What they are defending is knuckleheads like you that want to blow things into dangerous proportions that possibly invite intolerance and hate, and simple minded generalizations based on ignorance. We need more intellect and less gut feeling.

We all agree that some horrendous things happen in Muslim countries, but this doesn't need to be overstated, this speaks for itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

From this page:

Large communities of Muslims are also found in China, the Balkans, India, and Russia.

When was the last time you heard about this sort of stuff happening there?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What they are defending is knuckleheads like you that want to blow things into dangerous proportions that possibly invite intolerance and hate, and simple minded generalizations based on ignorance. We need more intellect and less gut feeling.

You mention that, after your comments trying to draw false equivalence between Christians in the USA and Muslims in Islamic countries? Really? You've lost your ****ing mind. The irony is off the scale. No, this isn't being blown "into dangerous proportions", it isn't being pushed hard enough. Radical Islam is a global pandemic.

We all agree that some horrendous things happen in Muslim countries, but this doesn't need to be overstated, this speaks for itself.

You can't overstate it, because Islamic countries are a cancer and their ideology is poison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

"Large communities of Muslims are also found in China, the Balkans, India, and Russia."

When was the last time you heard about this sort of stuff happening there?

Because those aren't Islamic countries, they're simply countries with communities of Islamic people living in them. However, as soon as a nation reaches a Muslim majority, where they start influencing the rule of law, people die by the millions, and it starts with the most marginalized and weakest first. In small numbers, or in controlled environments, Islam isn't so bad, but once it gains control of the State, human rights and personal liberties are destroyed on a scale that's unprecedented in the modern era.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Because those aren't Islamic countries, they're simply countries with communities of Islamic people living in them. However, as soon as a nation reaches a Muslim majority, where they start influencing the rule of law, people die by the millions, and it starts with the most marginalized and weakest first. In small numbers, or in controlled environments, Islam isn't so bad, but once it gains control of the State, human rights and personal liberties are destroyed on a scale that's unprecedented in the modern era.

Don't be a dumb **** Tightpants. Did you look at the Wikipedia page?

A sample of countries that have large populations and are majority Muslim:

- Bangladesh
- Turkey
- Jordan
- Mali
- Morocco
- Algeria
- Indonesia
- UAE

I can't account for the cultures of all of these countries, and I'm pretty certain that you can't either, so why say stupid stuff? Do you see how long that list is? Are you prepared to make the argument for each country on this list with a majority Muslim population? Why would you want to, you can make your same point without going this far.

This happens time and time again: you have a very valid point buried beneath what you are saying, but then it doesn't get the discussion because you overstate things in such a distracting way that it invites a parade of stupid, and then the productive conversation that could have taken place never does.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Don't be a dumb **** Tightpants. Did you look at the Wikipedia page?

Yep, and none of it refutes what I've said. None of it. Why you, and other like-minded "Progressives", are defending the most anti-Liberal, murderous, socially destructive ideology in the world is truly baffling. It makes no ****ing sense, at all.

A sample of countries that have large populations and are majority Muslim:

- Bangladesh
- Turkey
- Jordan
- Mali
- Morocco
- Algeria
- Indonesia
- UAE

and every single one of them is enforcing some of the most prejudiced, destructive practices in the world. Shit like this is happening every. single. day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing
Honor killings haunt Turkey's gay community - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
Honor Killings and Violence against Women in Turkey
Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings :: Middle East Quarterly

The sheer volume of it all is ****ing insane, and that's in the "moderate" countries.

I can't account for the cultures of all of these countries, and I'm pretty certain that you can't either, so why say stupid stuff? Do you see how long that list is? Are you prepared to make the argument for each country on this list with a majority Muslim population? Why would you want to, you can make your same point without going this far.

It isn't "stupid stuff" it's reality. Islam. Is. Poison. Wherever it gains control, individual liberties and human rights die, it's really that damned simple. You can try to whitewash it all you want, but the scale of people being murdered, oppressed, and subjugated in the name of Allah is unparalleled in current times. "Well, look what Christians did!" And if they were doing it now I'd be protesting them too, but the scale isn't even comparable, it's like trying to draw a comparison between an anthill and Mt Everest, and the more you try, the more you dilute the damned problem. Islam is not compatible with Western civilization, at all. FFS, this all has me standing with Bill Freaking Maher.

This happens time and time again: you have a very valid point buried beneath what you are saying, but then it doesn't get the discussion because you overstate things in such a distracting way that it invites a parade of stupid, and then the productive conversation that could have taken place never does.

This happens time and time again, you end up defending the indefensible. People such as yourself, who deny that Islam is dangerous and virulent, are the "parade of stupid", and I'll add this: I love our freedoms in the Western world, I'll defend to the death an individual's right to free expression, but if it meant that we could eradicate Islamic (and overall religious) radicalism, I'd actually consider the banning and purging of organized religion.

[besson3c]

Classic CTP. Changing things from "because it's the norm in Muslim countries" (all Muslim countries inferred) to "this happens frequently throughout the Muslim world", which I never would have disagreed with if this is what you actually said in the first place.

BTW none of what I said really contradicts what Bill Freaking Maher has said either. He didn't go as far as you did originally before your repositioning here.

[besson3c]

If what you say is a norm in all Muslim countries, then mass shooting sprees are a norm in the US.

In both cases they are something that unfortunately happens all too often, but they are still considered unusual and shocking. At best maybe they are virtually the norm in shit hole countries like Afghanistan or Iraq, but let's not lump all of these countries together into literal equivalence.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Classic CTP. Changing things from "because it's the norm in Muslim countries" (all Muslim countries inferred)

Because it is.

to "this happens frequently throughout the Muslim world",

Because it does. Both are correct.

which I never would have disagreed with if this is what you actually said in the first place.

Feel free to disagree, I don't care because it doesn't change the demonstrable proof.

BTW none of what I said really contradicts what Bill Freaking Maher has said either. He didn't go as far as you did originally before your repositioning here.

"Repositioning"? Islam is toxic and radical Islam is a global disaster, both can be, and are, correct. How many times does Maher have to stand up and say Islam is screwed up? That it's "an ideology of bad ideas"? That it's "incompatible with Western society"? He's gone every bit as far as I have, modern Islam is the worst source of ideas since Adolf trimmed his mustache.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If what you say is a norm in all Muslim countries, then mass shooting sprees are a norm in the US.

In both cases they are something that unfortunately happens all too often, but they are still considered unusual and shocking. At best maybe they are virtually the norm in shit hole countries like Afghanistan or Iraq, but let's not lump all of these countries together into literal equivalence.

If they happened with anywhere near the same frequency, then sure, but they don't. Remember what I said? Mt Everest > anthill. The norm in Muslim countries is intolerance, bigotry, and the destruction of individual rights. And for what? To appease some moronic pedophilic prophet and a bearded old-man-deity in the sky? For real? I guess you think wearing the equivalent of a black beekeeper's suit in a >50C desert is liberating, too. But go ahead, regale me with more false equivalence and tell me how a handful of incidents equals the veritable humanitarian apocalypse that is Islam.

[besson3c]

This isn't going anywhere.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This isn't going anywhere.

How surprising for a thread where you demanded people to "account for themselves" to you.

Nobody is accountable to you.

And now go act surprised.

-t

[besson3c]

You're accountable to me turtle, you bitch.

[el chupacabra]

… .

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This isn't going anywhere.

It is, just not where you demanded.

[besson3c]

I created the thread to prove a point, my asking for republicans to account for themselves was merely my rhetorical approach.

However, when it gets to the point of having to explain and re-explain things and trying my best to understand other comments and responses so that we can understand each other I lose my patience because it's usually a waste of time, and often just amounts to bickering.

So, bye.

[BadKosh]

Yep. What I figured.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Yep. What I figured.

and has very little, if anything, to do with "trying to understand each other".

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

and has very little, if anything, to do with "trying to understand each other".

I've made up my mind long ago that you guys are nuts, but please don't assert that you ever had an interest in entertaining the original concept that whether it is extreme opinions within the Republican party or extreme religious positions (not to suggest a literal equivalency) that these can be denounced without a platform, and in doing so can affect change, and that the less extreme populations need to be accountable for the extreme populations. You are just as locked into your views, so enjoy your celebration of my giving up here, but don't kid yourself into thinking that we are different in this respect.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I created the thread to prove a point, my asking for republicans to account for themselves was merely my rhetorical approach.

So, bye.

You are nothing but a f$%&king troll.

-t

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I've made up my mind long ago that you guys are nuts, but please don't assert that you ever had an interest in entertaining the original concept that whether it is extreme opinions within the Republican party or extreme religious positions (not to suggest a literal equivalency) that these can be denounced without a platform, and in doing so can affect change, and that the less extreme populations need to be accountable for the extreme populations. You are just as locked into your views, so enjoy your celebration of my giving up here, but don't kid yourself into thinking that we are different in this respect.

Riiiiiiiight...

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Because those aren't Islamic countries, they're simply countries with communities of Islamic people living in them. However, as soon as a nation reaches a Muslim majority, where they start influencing the rule of law, people die by the millions, and it starts with the most marginalized and weakest first. In small numbers, or in controlled environments, Islam isn't so bad, but once it gains control of the State, human rights and personal liberties are destroyed on a scale that's unprecedented in the modern era.

Ask Brigette Gabriel, author of "Because They Hate", about her experience growing up in Lebanon.
Lebanon was a Maronite Catholic country for millennia. They allowed the PLO in after it was thrown out of Jordon and the end result was a bloody civil war.

[Chongo]

This one has many scratching their heads. He said it was, Philly Mayor says no, it wasn't. you can't fight what you deny exists.
Philly Mayor Rejects Islamic Ties to Police Shooting, Calls for More Gun Control - Breitbart

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

This one has many scratching their heads. He said it was, Philly Mayor says no, it wasn't. you can't fight what you deny exists.
Philly Mayor Rejects Islamic Ties to Police Shooting, Calls for More Gun Control - Breitbart

The issue really comes down to whether or not one is inclined to buy into the claims extremists make that their ideology and violent actions are done in the name of a particular religion. It's not about if extremists believe their own claims. Quite obviously they do. Instead, it's about if the religion itself as it's typically practiced supports an extremist ideology and violent actions. If one is going to go by what Islamic extremists claim about Islam .... as opposed to what Islam as it's typically practiced teaches ... that's fine. Just be intellectually consistent when Christian extremists make claims about Christianity.

OAW

[Chongo]

Those Christian extremist are?

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Those Christian extremist are?

The Christian Identity movement, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), the Irish Republican Army (IRA), the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), etc.

OAW

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Those Christian extremist are?

The couple of nutters who annually go off the rails, Christians are no more likely to cause those incidents as anyone else (statistical fact). Muslims? They account for >90% worldwide. But no, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with Islam. No sir.

Here's a good one. Put a Leftist, with a daughter, on a polygraph and ask them if they'd feel safer sending her (alone) to Vatican City or Mecca. That'd be entertaining, wouldn't it?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by OAW 

The Christian Identity movement, the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), the Irish Republican Army (IRA), the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) and the Ulster Defence Association (UDA), etc.

So much for being "intellectually consistent".