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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Gaming > Doom 3 on G5...more RAM or better video??

Doom 3 on G5...more RAM or better video??
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pffxmacuzer
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Jul 15, 2005, 07:39 AM
 
Hello,
I have a an early 2005 Dual 2GHz G5 (16x SuperDrive model) w/ 512 MB RAM and Radeon 9600 128 MB graphics and im playing Doom 3 on it but it plays very choppy.It sometimes even pauses completely for a few seconds during some shootouts in some parts.

I just wanted to know in my case is this a RAM problem or a graphic problem, or both? I'm getting a little under $600 to upgrade today and just wanted to make sure i buy the right parts. I was thinking of splurging and getting 4GB of RAM or getting a GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL. I know both would be good but i can only afford one right now.

Will the Radeon 9600 hold up even when i put all that RAM in my system? Will Doom 3 still be choppy? Should i get the video card now and get the RAM later?

Thanks for the help.
     
Big Mac
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Jul 15, 2005, 07:43 AM
 
graphics card

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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 15, 2005, 07:46 AM
 
Cool... which card should i get and why?
( Last edited by pffxmacuzer; Jul 15, 2005 at 08:07 AM. )
     
Maflynn
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Jul 15, 2005, 08:10 AM
 
X800xt or the nVidia 6800 will do.

My preference is the x800xt based partly on price and based partly on ATI's device drivers. They seem to be able to tweak more performance out of there cards from the device drivers. Then there's the included software. You have more control via a pref pane to change the card's settings. Finally the X800xt doesn't block the PCI slot next to it and it doesn't require an additional power plug.

Why the video card over memory, well that's because that game pushes the limits on video cards like no other game on the market. even these top end card's frame rates will be not be terribly high.

Good game and I was pleased with the X800xt and the game. If your buying the card just for the game I'd say hold off its an expensive purchase.

Mike
     
eyadams
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Jul 15, 2005, 12:01 PM
 
I disagree - more RAM would do more. I have an early SP 1.8 G5, and things got noticeably better when I upgraded to 1.5 Gig from 500 Meg. Plus, it's cheaper.
     
Leonard
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Jul 15, 2005, 12:02 PM
 
I agree with the above posters about the video card, but I still would upgrade your RAM to at least 1GB. 512MB is the bare minimum and when playing a 3D intensive game like that you should also have more RAM than 512MB bare minimum.
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Louis_SX
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Jul 15, 2005, 12:27 PM
 
Why do you have to spend it all on RAM or all on graphics? I'd split it in half. $300 on RAM would get you an additional chunk of memory (2GB?) and the other $300 can be spent on a Radeon 9800 Pro or XT. The 9800 has four additional render pipelines (double that of the 9600) and a 256-bit memory bus (again, double that of the 9600) and should help a bunch.
     
Lateralus
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Jul 15, 2005, 12:44 PM
 
The 9800 runs Doom III like crap on the Mac. You need an X800/850 or 6800 to get any decent frame rate.

Shitty port...
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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 15, 2005, 01:15 PM
 
Sucks to know that since it's the only game i've been looking forward to playing. I know i want a better video card than the 9800 and more than 1GB of RAM in my system.

So far, i think i'm going to go with the video card first. Where can i get an x850 xt?
     
Lateralus
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Jul 15, 2005, 01:37 PM
 
I'd think twice about this. I had a Dual 1.8GHz G5 with 2GBs of RAM and an X800 XT and Doom III ran like crap at 1024x768 with all the options off.
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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 15, 2005, 01:50 PM
 
Oh well...I guess i'l spend the money on something else then.

Thanks for all the input.
     
Maflynn
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Jul 15, 2005, 03:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus
I'd think twice about this. I had a Dual 1.8GHz G5 with 2GBs of RAM and an X800 XT and Doom III ran like crap at 1024x768 with all the options off.

I don't know, I was playing doom on my G5 2.GHz X800XT (gig of ram) and it was ok. I didn't have all of the detail turned on but by the same token, it wasn't set to bare minimum. I forget if I ran it at 800x600 or 1024x768. Performance was very acceptable and the was playable. I think it bogged down once or twice but overall the frame rates were what they needed to be keep things moving. My G5 is packed away due to a home renovation.
So I can't say for sure what settings I had used.

Buying the video card just for doom 3 is an expensive ordeal and a tough pill to swallow. Upping your ram to a gig mininum pays dividends for all applications not just for doom3. Trying to run doom 3 on anything other then the X800 or the ultra 6800 means it will be an ordeal.

Mike
     
pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 15, 2005, 03:35 PM
 
I was expecting a big performance gain if i had upped the RAM and graphics for Doom 3 but i guess not. Not looking to get jipped. So i'm not going to make the upgrade.

Also, to do it for one game is a tough one to swallow indeed.

Thanks for warning me.
     
Maflynn
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Jul 15, 2005, 03:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by pffxmacuzer
I was expecting a big performance gain if i had upped the RAM and graphics for Doom 3 but i guess not. Not looking to get jipped. So i'm not going to make the upgrade.

Also, to do it for one game is a tough one to swallow indeed.

Thanks for warning me.
Up your memory by a gig anyways, OSX really doesn't start feeling snappy until you do that. All your apps will thank you for it

As for Doom 3 - it is what it is, so at least you know what it takes before under going the upgrade process.

Mike
     
pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 15, 2005, 03:51 PM
 
Cool. I will do that. Too bad on the Doom 3. I really wanted to make that game fly on my G5.
     
hypnognosis
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Jul 16, 2005, 03:08 AM
 
I think your real situation is the ram. Most game pauses are caused by paging, Warcraft III even pauses with less than 640MB of ram.
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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 16, 2005, 08:40 AM
 
That's what i was looking to find out. Please give me some advice on how much RAM to put in my system if i wanted to have the absoulute best for my model G5.

Will 4GB be useless for games or will the games utilize it? I'm sure as other games come out i will play them as well so it will be a worthwile investment.

If not 4GB, how much lower? 4GB is the max my system will do.

Thanks.
     
Big Mac
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Jul 16, 2005, 09:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by pffxmacuzer
That's what i was looking to find out. Please give me some advice on how much RAM to put in my system if i wanted to have the absoulute best for my model G5.

Will 4GB be useless for games or will the games utilize it? I'm sure as other games come out i will play them as well so it will be a worthwile investment.

If not 4GB, how much lower? 4GB is the max my system will do.

Thanks.
Actually, your system is a DP 2.0, which is an 8 slotted Mac. 1GB DIMMs will then give you 8GBs. How much RAM is optimal for you depends on the number of users and the type/quantity of open applications you'll be running in those users. 1GB is a moderate amount, which is what I'm running on right now. Due to a set of unusual circumstances, I now have purchased 2GBs extra (four 512 sticks), so I may soon post my view of how much of a difference 3GBs has made as opposed to 1.

Btw, if you're still contemplating selling your G5, you'll get a lot more buyer action on eBay than you will in the Marketplace.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 16, 2005, 09:29 AM
 
Crazy...I tought it was 4 slotted. I haven't actually looked in the machine yet so i wouldn't even know anyway. Thanks for the heads up.

I've been very on/off about selling my G5 lately but i think i've finally found a buyer. I couldn't make up my mind but once they showed me the green, that made it up for me.

So i'm actually going to be building another PC. I don't know what my future hold with Macs. Maybe i'll get another one in the future, maybe i wont. Hopefully i will.
     
pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 16, 2005, 11:21 AM
 
Just checked on the Apple site. My G5 does hold only 4GB of RAM, not 8. I guess you made a mistake. Would be cool if it did hold 8 though.
     
reader50
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Jul 16, 2005, 11:39 AM
 
The latest version of the dual 2.0 uses the 4-slot motherboard, the earlier ones used the 8-slot motherboard. However, the G5 will recognize 2 GB modules, so the actual RAM limit is 8 GB after all.

The bad news is 2 GB modules are impressively pricey.
     
R!K
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Jul 16, 2005, 01:59 PM
 
Here's the results graph that Barefeats got for Doom3 with the X800 (and one overclocked to X850 speed) on a dual 2.5 with 8Gb ram.



Not actually very impressive compared to what even a modest PC can churn out (Barefeats head to head here) but you can't blame Apple for a lazy port as it is rather more compicated than that, with a number of factors involved.. Some more info from the same site on tweaking a Mac for best Doom3 performance here. They manage to get it up to >50fps with some tweaks and thats plenty good enough for me...
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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 16, 2005, 06:01 PM
 
You're right, not that impressive but still good enough for me too.

Pretty cool, i didn't know the 4 slot PM held 8GB of RAM.Can't seem to find 2GB DIMMS nowhere though.
     
R!K
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Jul 16, 2005, 06:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by pffxmacuzer
You're right, not that impressive but still good enough for me too.

Pretty cool, i didn't know the 4 slot PM held 8GB of RAM.Can't seem to find 2GB DIMMS nowhere though.
Crucial sell them, pricy though - about 4x the cost of a 1Gb one...

UK Site:
http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/part...PN=CT25672Y40B

US Site:
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspe...PN=CT25672Y40B

Crucial are great, I ordered 4Gb from them for my G5. Ordered at 5pm, arrived first post the next day.
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Big Mac
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Jul 16, 2005, 06:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by pffxmacuzer
You're right, not that impressive but still good enough for me too.

Pretty cool, i didn't know the 4 slot PM held 8GB of RAM.Can't seem to find 2GB DIMMS nowhere though.
Oops, I'm sorry, I thought you wrote early 2004 DP 2.0. You do have four slots rather than eight. I do sincerely apologize for the error.

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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 16, 2005, 07:38 PM
 
No prob on the error. Those 2GB DIMMS are pricey indeed. Crucial do seem great. If i get RAM it'll most likely be from them.
     
freebasen
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Jul 16, 2005, 08:30 PM
 
I will say that RAM is your best bet, but also there is another option that hasn't been suggested yet. The best upgrade I ever did for my G5 was to get a Raptor 10K RPM HDD. A little pricey, but the difference is day and night between the stock hard drive and this upgrade. There was a noticable difference in Doom gameplay. BTW, I run a G5 1.6, w/ 1.5GB RAM and a raptor 70G HDD. I can play the game just fine at 1024x768.
     
R!K
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Jul 16, 2005, 09:13 PM
 
Yeah I think a 10k HD as my system drive will probably be my next upgrade...

Barefeats to the rescue again.
( Last edited by R!K; Jul 16, 2005 at 09:22 PM. )
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pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 17, 2005, 06:19 AM
 
Great. I'll also take that into consideration. Thanks.
     
t500
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Jul 19, 2005, 07:48 PM
 
Sorry for the late responde. I'm running a Dual 1.8 G5. I have a ATI 9600 64 Meg, and 2.5 GB of RAM. I play Doom 3 at default setting with no problems on my 20 inch widescreen, with no problems.
     
pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 19, 2005, 08:17 PM
 
That's great to hear. I just traded off my G5 and 20" Cinema yesterday for another PC though. I never got the money i was expecting to upgrade. Anyway, I like rockin back and forth between the two platforms whenever either one comes out with something new. In this case it was the Athlon X2. However i settled for an Athlon 64 3800+ system with 21" Samsung 213T LCD Display. This system has 2Gigs of high performance RAM and a GeForce 6800 Ultra plus the guy was nice enough to include Doom 3 so i'm all set.
     
auero
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Jul 19, 2005, 10:31 PM
 
My 9800xt runs it perfect with a dual 2.0 1.5gb ram machine
     
pffxmacuzer  (op)
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Jul 20, 2005, 12:53 AM
 
Cool. What kind of hard drive do you have?
     
a2daj
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Jul 20, 2005, 04:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by R!K
but you can't blame Apple for a lazy port as it is rather more compicated than that, with a number of factors involved..
Apple is partly to blame. As are ATI and NVIDIA. Most of the performance optimizations for Doom 3 will have to come from them as the bottlenecks lie inn the OpenGL framework/video card drivers, and not the app. They haven't had a lot of time to work on optimizing OS X's OpenGL implementation for Doom 3, although apparently they were able to double the performance from what it was initially.
     
jcadam
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Jul 22, 2005, 01:06 PM
 
I have a 2x2 G5 with 1.25 GB RAM and a Radeon 9800Pro(retail). It runs Doom3 at PLAYABLE speeds at modest quality settings. That said, it runs everything else more than adequately.

Once the novelty of the pretty graphics wore off (I even considered getting a better gfx card when I first bought the game), I came to discover that deep down Doom3 is a pretty shallow, repetitive game with little substance.

Right now, I'm hooked on Savage. Modest graphics, modest system requirements. But the gameplay absolutely rocks, despite the bugs in the mac version.
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svtcontour
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Jul 27, 2005, 11:11 PM
 
I always understood that the slowdown in games using OpenGL were directly related to how OSX handles openGL in the OS (something about there being an extra layer that games have to go through before OpenGL instrucations are carried out). From what I understant it has nothing to do with the game developers or drivers. I wish I could find the link. The the time I didnt pay so much attention so I could have it all wrong
     
a2daj
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Jul 28, 2005, 02:57 AM
 
OS X's implementation is a big reason, but so are the drivers. Optimizations at both levels can help performance independently. Example, I believe 10.3.7 contained some ATI drivers which had significant shader performance improvements (most notable in Halo and Splinter Cell). If you take 10.3.6 and apply ATI's 10.3.6 driver update, you'll see similar performance improvements. Those improvements are directly related to optimizations in the ATI drivers
     
   
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