[P_lam0]

I know there was a similar posting made previous to this but it didn't really clearly answer the question.
I want to know whether or not to buy a Powerbook now.....or wait for the new one.
The rumours site....appleinsider, has stated that there is likely to be one released at Macworld San Fransico, but:

I am not sure whether they will change the look of the powerbook, it looks well good at the moment.

Would the entry price of a new model be highly priced?

Would the machine but unstable at first ( best to wait til corrections made???)



Need advice, anyone help??

[pete]

Speaking from bitter experience: NEVER buy the first batch of any Apple products! Wait at least one revision. Also, depending on you software needs, I suspect that the new intel powerbooks will not run PPC software as well as PPC hardware does and that it will take a while for the main software developers to be ready for the intel macs.

As always: if you need it now buy now.

[justinkim]

Unfortunately, most of your questions are just not possible to answer until we see production machines.

Personally, I jut bought a new machine. I would have preferred to wait (I haven't had the bad experience with new Apple hardware many here seem to have had), but my old 1GHz TiBook was on its last legs and I needed to replace it.

Ultimately, and this is such a common reply to this kind of question it's become a cliche, you ought to make your decision based on your current needs. If you absolutely need a machine now, you probably ought to buy a machine now. If you don't and don't mind using initial release hardware, maybe waiting until January isn't such a bad idea.

The main problem with waiting is that you're waiting based on a rumor that machines will be released way before they're expected. There's also always a better computer just around the corner - sometimes you just have to decide you're not going to wait and buy.

[pete]

I think the most sound advice anybody can give is to seriously consider your NEEDS as they are now. If the current crop is satisfactory, then I see no reason to wait for something that we don't know anything about. IF, on the other hand, you feel that what is offered by Apple now is not really what you need in terms of power, size or whatever, then wait to see what's coming because it might be good.

[amazing]

Comes down to whether you're a gambler or not: Buying right before MacWorld San Fran is never the best bet. On the other hand, as for the rumors, don't believe everything that's printed...

I agree that you should never buy the first generation of anything. However, when a new generation is introduced, you can get great bargains on the previous generation. So, if your computer needs allow you to wait another 2 months, you might save yourself a couple hundred $ on present model Powerbooks.

[urrl78]

Oh...One more thing...

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1884611,00.asp

[pete]

I still think that it's likely that it will be some time before everything will be smooth on the intel mac platform and unless you're into a bumpy ride, PPC is still the way to go right now....just my cautious side.

[Kenstee]

Don't even think about getting a first generation of the Intel Mac PBs. Totally new hardware AND software is something to stay away from. Let other people have the issues.

Also, there will be an extremely rapid evolution of Intel chips. The firat chip to be introduced is code named Yonah. Of note, these will be rendered totally obsolete within 6-9 months by the next generation of Intel mobile chips code named Merom. Personally, I'd wait at least until Merom is in place in the Mactel PBs for a revision or two before buying.

In addition, it wil take awhile for all the software developers to develop and debug and optimize Intel-coded software. Until then the current PPC software will run in emulation mode on the Mactels - which may or may not run them faster than the current batch of PBs.

Near term a bumpy road to avoid if you can. But, the future looks very bright.

[runejoha]

Originally Posted by P_lam0

I know there was a similar posting made previous to this but it didn't really clearly answer the question.
I want to know whether or not to buy a Powerbook now.....or wait for the new one.
The rumours site....appleinsider, has stated that there is likely to be one released at Macworld San Fransico, but:

I am not sure whether they will change the look of the powerbook, it looks well good at the moment.

Would the entry price of a new model be highly priced?

Would the machine but unstable at first ( best to wait til corrections made???)



Need advice, anyone help??

- They just released new models of the PBs. I doubt they will release a new model 3 months after the previous (9 months is common)
- A Mactel needs a new OS
- Most application will run better on a PPC for several months/year.
- Some rumors says that the new PB will be thinner, but keeps the "looks".
- The cpu from Intel that is supposed to be in the PB is delayed.

The mactel PB is here in April/May or later :-D If you buy a PB today you probably have the newest version for 6 month and avoid the 1st generation mactels with its initial problems. You can buy a new one Rev B in 8+9 months = 17 months if this is important. I would buy one today.

[jaydon34]

Buy a mac now sell it when intels come out. Macs are not like windows's pc's they tend to keep there value.

[kapeedmaro]

I agree with the other posters here who are skeptical of the first generation MacIntels.

I just purchased a 15" g4/1.67 and am very happy with it. This PB will last me at least two years, and probably longer. My previous G4/667 made it 4 years.

The first gen Macintels are going to have difficulties. The problems won't be with the software that's already ported to run natively on P4Ms, but those who rely on Apple's "Rosetta" emulation software. That's where the trouble will be. Reportedly, Rosetta apps are running 1/10th speed on the developer MacIntel systems. Speed won't be the only problem, though. I foresee crashes and freezes due to incompatibilities.

All the major software will be totally PPC native for the time being. So as Office, Photoshop, and DreamWeaver update, they'll be ok.

Buy now and avoid the new year's flush.

[Fiyin]

Originally Posted by Kenstee

Don't even think about getting a first generation of the Intel Mac PBs. Totally new hardware AND software is something to stay away from. Let other people have the issues.

Also, there will be an extremely rapid evolution of Intel chips. The firat chip to be introduced is code named Yonah. Of note, these will be rendered totally obsolete within 6-9 months by the next generation of Intel mobile chips code named Merom. Personally, I'd wait at least until Merom is in place in the Mactel PBs for a revision or two before buying.

Actually this is probably one of the few times it'll be safe to buy a rev a machine. I think people underestimate the engineering reseources Intel has provided Apple to get this right the first time.

FYI, Kenstee, Yonah will not be 'totally obsolete' when Merom starts shipping in volume. Intel is targetting Merom as a refresh to the Napa platform (3rd gen Centrino), but plenty of people will still be using Yonah.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Fiyin

Actually this is probably one of the few times it'll be safe to buy a rev a machine. I think people underestimate the engineering reseources Intel has provided Apple to get this right the first time.

FYI, Kenstee, Yonah will not be 'totally obsolete' when Merom starts shipping in volume. Intel is targetting Merom as a refresh to the Napa platform (3rd gen Centrino), but plenty of people will still be using Yonah.

Obsolescence is when a person or object is no longer wanted even though it is still in good working order.
I think that describes quite well how Yonah will be perceived when Merom comes out. I disagree with this perception (namely how small of a gain 64-bit gives you), but nevertheless that will be a common view (the 64-bit hype/myth).

[prospervic]

There's another reason not to wait. Intel won't have the WiMax chips for laptops ready until 2007-2008. So, I'd buy a PPC PowerBook now, then sell it 2 years so I can buy a MacTel PB with worldwide, unlimted wireless access. Not to mention by that time Apple should have worked out the transisiton bugs.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by prospervic

There's another reason not to wait. Intel won't have the WiMax chips for laptops ready until 2007-2008. So, I'd buy a PPC PowerBook now, then sell it 2 years so I can buy a MacTel PB with worldwide, unlimted wireless access. Not to mention by that time Apple should have worked out the transisiton bugs.

WiMax won't magically give you worldwide, unlimited wireless access. You'll still need someone to put the access points up, and of course pay them for the service. You can have something similar today (albeit at lower speeds) with EDGE or EV-DO PCMCIA cards.

And Intel says WiMax will be available in 2006: WiMAX capability built into notebook computers is targeted for 2006, followed by handsets targeted for 2007.

[prospervic]

That's sooner than they have previously indicated. Good! Even so, WiMax's higher speeds (without the need for an additional wireless card) are worth waiting for. And yes, it goes without saying that we'll need access points and service providers.

[prospervic]

After being inspired by mduell's post to read more about EVDO -- check out http://www.evdoforums.com/about503.html -- I'm inclined to rethink my position on PowerBook vis-a-vis WiMax. I'm still thinking of buying in the next month (do we really believe Apple will launch new PB's so soon after the current "new" ones), and enjoy it until the MacTel's are "broken-in", with plenty of native software available.
Besides, I'm drooling for a PowerBook...even though my iBook is just two months old.

[JeffHarris]

I just got my new PowerBook! There's no way I'm gonna get bit by another of Apple's promised "smooth transitions".

Personally, I think you’d be NUTS to buy a Rev. A or even a Rev. B MacTel machine. Get a new PowerBook NOW! I just got mine!

Why NOT get a MacTel NOW, you ask? They’ll be NEW! (meaning BEST?)

NEW hardware configurations ALWAYS have problems. I can’t imagine what problems an entirely NEW system architecture will have. I’ve impatiently (and perhaps foolishly) bought Rev. A machines (Mac IIcx [the IIci was better], PowerMac 8500, PowerBook G3 Lombard, PowerBook G4) and would never do it again!

We’re not talking about whether some skunk-works lab created and tested MacTel box is going to work or not. We’re talking full-blown, tens and hundreds of thousands production machines that people and businesses will PAY for and assume that they can run their lives and businesses with RELIABILITY.... which, oddly, is exactly why many people choose Macs over Windows boxes.

SOFTWARE!. If we’re talking an entirely new hardware architecture, we’re also talking about software that runs on this new hardware, natively! Again, this isn’t a skunk-works geek driven secret project, but millions of machines sold to consumers and businesses who EXPECT and are PAYING for, Macintosh stability and reliability. So, you buy your new "fast" Intel Mac and discover that all your favorite and necessary applications and utilities are running at half-speed in emulation? Good Luck.

Expecting ALL your software to run with stability and reliability on an entirely new hardware architecture is foolhardy. I’m not talking Office or Safari or Mail, but the dozens of little applications, utilities and system enhancements which we grow to rely upon, but tend to forget about. Will ALL of them run on a spanky new Intel Mac on day ONE? Day 301? At full speed? Using Rosetta? I seriously doubt it.

Apple a has a LONG history of PROMISING smooth transitions, whether it be System software or hardware transitions. In my experience (Mac user since 1985) those transitions have NEVER been as smooth as advertised. That’s the key term: ADVERTISED!

Would Apple PROMISE a miserable hardware/software transition and expect to stay in business? I think not.

Here are some serial transition examples (all based on personal experience, BTW):
A: System 6 to System 7 to System 8 to OS 9 to Mac OS X
B: Motorola 68000 to 68030 to 68040 to PowerPC… then 600 to 604 to G3. Once we hit the G3’s, it’s been smooth as silk, more or less!

Then there were some major hardware changes and additions:
Nu-Bus to PCI slots
ADB to USB
SCSI to FireWire
CD-ROM, CD-R, DVD, et al.

There were myriad troubles and delays with ALL those transitions, especially for those of us who wanted to ride the first car of the MacTrain. I learned a lot (certainly there’s much value in that), but there was pain involved too. We waited several YEARS for Mac OS 9 software to be ported to and run reliably on Mac OS X. Some software just plain disappeared. THAT has happened with EVERY transition I can think of. Luckily file formats are more universal these days, so transitioning to new applications and file formats can be less of a headache.

I don’t want to sound like a nay sayer, but we’ve all got to be prepared for a less than glass-smooth transition to Intel. MacUsers LOVE to complain (obviously, this one included) just don’t jump into this one blind and expect to come out without a few bruises and shattered illusions.

THAT said… I got a new 15” PowerBook G4 a week ago... with a 100GB x 7200 rpm hard drive and 2GB of RAM. I could quibble about some of the specs… GPU especially… but my 3 year old Giga TiBook had been fading fast, so it's getting an AppleCare overhaul before sell it on eBay and pay for a big chunk of my new rig. I figure I’ll get enough milage out of the new machine to carry me to the Rev. B or Rev. C dual-core MacTel PowerBooks and all the hardware and software crap has settled down.

If you folks think you're headed to some megahertz myth driven nirvana with Intel Macs... dream on! If you need a PowerBook now or want one... GET one!

[ScottEllsworth]

Ask yourself these questions: do you really need the new machine now, will you need it by June, and will you need it by December of 2006? If you need it now, get it. If you can wait until June, and are willing to put up with the teething pains of a new architecture, then wait until the rev A machines come out. If you can wait until 12/2006, then you can get the second revision.

For me, I am willing to wait until June, but not December of 2006. My 17"/1.5Ghz will be two years old in April, and it will be time to replace it. I do not want to wait another nine months after that.

Personally, I would be willing to take the risk of getting one of the early Intel powerbooks, as I suspect it will work well enough for most things, and very well indeed for the things I need most. My primary apps are custom apps for scientific computing, for which I have source. Get me a copy of mysql compiled for Intel, and my entire toolchain will be native.

Good reasons to wait for rev 2 of the intel machines:
1. Need altivec enhanced software. Eventually, Intel clock speeds will win despite SSE3 being 30% slower than similarly clocked altivec.
2. Need VPC. Eventually, VPC, Wine, or some other PC emulator will be out, but I suspect that this will not be immediate. Emulators tend to push the system in strange ways, and thus minor preproduction changes can kill them.
3. Need high end software, like Cubase, Photoshop, or Motion. Eventually, these will convert, but in the mean time, it will be a bit of a wait.

If, on the other hand, your software is in Java, Perl, Python, or Ruby, like the scientific analysis software I write and use, then it should work very well on day one.

Further, while Intel will be bringing out new chips that are better than the old ones, a mulitcore Yonah should blow away a single core G4, and with better battery life to boot. There may be teething pains, but the raw performance sure looks encouraging.

Some teething pains are nearly certain. Many developers have not coughed up the thousand bucks for a transition system, and so will get surprised by the bug reports they get. Even if they order a mini or ibook the day they get released, they will not have had as thorough a test as they would have if they had been using an intel machine for months. Those first few months are going to be exciting indeed, and there is something to letting others find the nasty bugs. That said, I lived through the tiger beta since last November, and had few really nasty problems. This will not be that bad, as the OS itself is pretty stable and mature.

So, this is why I am eagerly looking forward to the rev one machines. My software should work well, and as time passes, the machine will just get better.

[shabbasuraj]

buy now...
...done.

[Fiyin]

Originally Posted by mduell

Obsolescence is when a person or object is no longer wanted even though it is still in good working order.
I think that describes quite well how Yonah will be perceived when Merom comes out. I disagree with this perception (namely how small of a gain 64-bit gives you), but nevertheless that will be a common view (the 64-bit hype/myth).

Heh, who told you that no one will want Yonah after Merom ships? Merom is not just Yonah in 64-bit clothing. The processors are architecturally different, and the older architecture is going to have features, tradeoffs, and benefits that are still wanted. I'll even get you started:

Why won't Yonah have a full 64-bit data path? Look through the comments by senior Intel staff about Napa/Yonah, and you'll see references to the fact that supporting full 64-bit operation blows the power envelope they wanted. Admittedly, power was a pretty obvious one, but I'm sure you can now start seeing other reasons why Yonah won't be "totally obsolete" despite Merom being a more interesting product.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Fiyin

Heh, who told you that no one will want Yonah after Merom ships? Merom is not just Yonah in 64-bit clothing. The processors are architecturally different, and the older architecture is going to have features, tradeoffs, and benefits that are still wanted. I'll even get you started:

Why won't Yonah have a full 64-bit data path? Look through the comments by senior Intel staff about Napa/Yonah, and you'll see references to the fact that supporting full 64-bit operation blows the power envelope they wanted. Admittedly, power was a pretty obvious one, but I'm sure you can now start seeing other reasons why Yonah won't be "totally obsolete" despite Merom being a more interesting product.

Have you seen all the hype Apple has put into making 64-bit look so much better than 32-bit, despite the generally modest performance difference, over the last 2 years? Jobs RDF will pimp the living out of a 64-bit laptop.
Merom also gets some neat stuff like larger caches and Vanderpool. I think the latter is going to be huge for "switchers."

[jgrevich]

Originally Posted by pete

Speaking from bitter experience: NEVER buy the first batch of any Apple products! Wait at least one revision. Also, depending on you software needs, I suspect that the new intel powerbooks will not run PPC software as well as PPC hardware does and that it will take a while for the main software developers to be ready for the intel macs.

I agree, but also disagree per my latest example. I bought the dual 2.5ghz with water cooling. That is a 1st generation, and look at the life I got out of that system. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that there was something faster. (Ok, maybe the 2.7, but that is still slower than my 2.5 in many operations. Oh, and never a single problem, that machine has been a dream.

However, I still agree with you, and probably will wait and do the same with the first intel macs.

[Fiyin]

Originally Posted by mduell

Have you seen all the hype Apple has put into making 64-bit look so much better than 32-bit, despite the generally modest performance difference, over the last 2 years? Jobs RDF will pimp the living out of a 64-bit laptop.
Merom also gets some neat stuff like larger caches and Vanderpool. I think the latter is going to be huge for "switchers."

I haven't seen Apple's 64-bit marketing as being too much more obnoxious than letting the world know they have a 64-bit solution also, but I suppose that's just an opinion. However, you haven't really addressed the point of my previous post. No one has ever questioned that Merom will be an impressive product.

[toneloco28]

Some people act as if Apple is still going to design their own chipsets, and logic boards?! Part of the switch to intel was to alleviate some of the pressures of Apple to design surrounding hardware around the cpu. The centrino platform, is not just a processor, it's a whole system. If anything the pc world has far more frequent "Rev A's", because of the more frequent upgrade cycle. I think most peoples fears of the first macintels are grossly overstated. I mean..I think Intel with one of the largest R&D budgets in the world, not too mention having done this for years, can be trusted to deliver a safe product.

I can understand software concerns, but the sheer boost in power should help alleviate some of the apps that haven't gone universal binary. Todays highest end powerbook at 1.67ghz is going to get absolutely slaughtered by a "dual core" pentium-m running in excess of 2ghz. Todays single core pentium-m at 2.13ghz is on par with a pentium-4 running at 3.6ghz. Apple has been waiting to move the powerbook to a new generation architecture for going on three years. Their going to bring out all the stops, including things we've never thought of! Myself, is waiting with credit card in hand for the day of the announcement. I've already sold my powerbook to a relative in anticipation.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Fiyin

I haven't seen Apple's 64-bit marketing as being too much more obnoxious than letting the world know they have a 64-bit solution also, but I suppose that's just an opinion. However, you haven't really addressed the point of my previous post. No one has ever questioned that Merom will be an impressive product.

Yonah will be outclassed my Merom in performance, features, and power consumption; Intel has publicly mentioned that Merom will beat Yonah for performance/power by a 2-to-1 margin. The only advantage Yonah will have after the introduction of Merom is price.

[Fiyin]

Originally Posted by toneloco28

Some people act as if Apple is still going to design their own chipsets, and logic boards?! Part of the switch to intel was to alleviate some of the pressures of Apple to design surrounding hardware around the cpu. The centrino platform, is not just a processor, it's a whole system. If anything the pc world has far more frequent "Rev A's", because of the more frquent upgrade cycle. I think most peoples fears of the first macintels are grossly overstated. I mean..I think Intel with one of the largest R&D budges in the world, not too mention having done this for years, can be trusted to deliver a safe product.

I can understand software concerns, but the sheer boost in power should help alleviate some of the apps that haven't gone universal binary. Todays highest end powerbook at 1.67ghz is going to get absoutely slaughtered by a "dual core" pentium-m running in excess of 2ghz. Todays single core pentium-m at 2.13ghz is on par with a pentium-4 running at 3.6ghz. Apple has been waiting to move the powerbook to a new generation architecture for going on three years. Their going to bring out all the stops, including things we've never thought of! Myself, is waiting with credit card in hand for the day of the announcement. I've allready sold my powerbook to a relative in anticipation.

Bingo! Except for one minor point, you're exactly right. People are way too paranoid about this switch.

Apple will probably continue to design their own motherboards, but it should take them significantly less time now. Intel's model is to design reference boards that greatly simplify OEMs' design process. These reference boards can't take into account each company's feature set and form factor, so each company has to do the final legwork themselves.

Originally Posted by mduell

Yonah will be outclassed my Merom in performance, features, and power consumption; Intel has publicly mentioned that Merom will beat Yonah for performance/power by a 2-to-1 margin. The only advantage Yonah will have after the introduction of Merom is price.

You could increase performance/power by a factor of 5, but that's not really a guarantee that the new part will fit into the same thermal envelope as ULV versions of the previous generation. I don't recall seeing anything saying that Merom and Merom LV/ULV will launch at the same time. Besides, I'd still call a low price a 'need' for certain classes of products.

[toneloco28]

Originally Posted by Fiyin

Bingo! Except for one minor point, you're exactly right. People are way too paranoid about this switch.

Apple will probably continue to design their own motherboards, but it should take them significantly less time now. Intel's model is to design reference boards that greatly simplify OEMs' design process. These reference boards can't take into account each company's feature set and form factor, so each company has to do the final legwork themselves.

Ahh...I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for clarifying!

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Fiyin

You could increase performance/power by a factor of 5, but that's not really a guarantee that the new part will fit into the same thermal envelope as ULV versions of the previous generation. I don't recall seeing anything saying that Merom and Merom LV/ULV will launch at the same time. Besides, I'd still call a low price a 'need' for certain classes of products.

Merom ULV is targeted at 0.5W... I doubt Jonah/Yonah could be much lower.

[Fiyin]

Originally Posted by mduell

Merom ULV is targeted at 0.5W... I doubt Jonah/Yonah could be much lower.

Oh, it certainly won't be that low. But the half Watt part won't be available when Merom launches. People needing a processor with an obscenely low TDP will still find Yonah ULV quite useful.

[gentryfunk]

http://forums.macnn.com/images/smili...chool/cool.gif

Having a brand new (less than one week old) 15" PB is better than waiting for a potentially faster Intel chip. The fact is that this 15" PB runs the software I use as fast as some of the fastest Intel systems I've seen so far. A friend has an 2Ghz Intel Centrino Sony laptop that runs slightly slower than this new PB. We were blown away at how quickly my PB ran Excel formulas that he ran on his Intel machine.....my PB was consistently 15-20% faster on a given task...sure this is no scientific survey, but my Mac just "feels" faster. Boot time, task switching, porgram load, etc....all appear faster and in some cases we could time them as faster.

Of course, speed is just one standard to assess and my thought is that a 1.67 Ghz PB is a damn fast machine in addition to being a great platform to do my work. I love the PB. Buy now and gain all the benefits of having the cutting edge Mac before you see the low-end Intel machines.

TGF

[mduell]

Originally Posted by gentryfunk

http://forums.macnn.com/images/smili...chool/cool.gif

Having a brand new (less than one week old) 15" PB is better than waiting for a potentially faster Intel chip. The fact is that this 15" PB runs the software I use as fast as some of the fastest Intel systems I've seen so far. A friend has an 2Ghz Intel Centrino Sony laptop that runs slightly slower than this new PB. We were blown away at how quickly my PB ran Excel formulas that he ran on his Intel machine.....my PB was consistently 15-20% faster on a given task...sure this is no scientific survey, but my Mac just "feels" faster. Boot time, task switching, porgram load, etc....all appear faster and in some cases we could time them as faster.

That's an unusual result. Perhaps your friend was running out of memory and having to swap.
Here's what barefeats found:

I just tried the built in benchmark in MATLAB. They say a dual 1.25Ghz G4 gets about 17, while my 1.86Ghz PM gets about 35.

[akwicks]

The chart above compares to older PBs, not the latest version of the 1.67 GB PB.

=================================================

It is now mid November. Unless someone is desparate for a new PB right now it makes sense to wait to see what happens at Mac Expo SF in January, since the holiday season flies by and Mac market prices always rearrange then. IMO a Mactel PB is very likely to be announced then because laptop issues were a driving force behind the Intel switch. Hopefully some performance benchmarks will be available even if shipping is delayed. My guess is that new info and some price restructuring will happen, making January the best time to decide what box to purchase.

My laptop is a PB 15 and it is far and away the best Mac laptop since the Duos. I will upgrade my DP G4 tower to a DP G5, so it looks like 2 years or so before I use Mactel.

[miacomet]

I'm going to wiat till January to buy a PB. See what apple has to say at MWSF.

[gentryfunk]

Interesting benchmark...would be curious to see a newer benchmark with newer hardware....I'll post a chart with scores from our informal test.

TGF

[pete]

The benchmarks also don't take into account multi-tasking ability. One thing I noticed with the thinkpad T40 I used over the summer and early fall (pentium M 1.5ghz/1gig ram/5400rpm hdd) was that although the computer felt really zippy in opening apps etc, as soon as I started having multiple things open or tried to do several things at once, it would slow down considerably and sometimes even completely. And, of course, it doesn't take into account all the small glitches, spyware, corruptions etc that windows users deal with regularly. So, sure, windows laptops are way ahead of powerbooks in CPU power and they're superior in speed UNTIL that power is tempered by the reality of poor multi-tasking, a virus, spyware or other random conflict that can take hours or days to fix. I know many users who just live with a lot of the glitches and never fix them. They just work around them.

I think that for the vast majority of users, today's powerbooks are sufficiently powered and that, on average, powerbook users are more productive and less frustrated despite their machines' relative lack of power. And isn't that what counts? Let's face it, if you want the most powerful machine available, a laptop wouldn't be your first choice anyway.

I'm not an apologist for Apple's inability to upgrade the performance on their laptops, but I do think that, at the end of the day, powerbook owners are getting a great balance of features, design and power and that productivity is comparable to windows users, if not higher.