[whoisjohngalt]

It doesn't matter what everyone calls them - Apple calls them notebooks, and tells you not to work with the computer on your lap.

These are powerful machines and they get hot. It's the nature of the beast. If you install the Developer Tools, there is a Pref pane that gets installed that allows you to turn off one of the CPUs. This should reduce the heat a bit. But otherwise, the machine is performing to spec.

Take it to the Apple Store. If it's under warranty they will send it off to be looked at. There is no guarantee though that what you get back will be any cooler.

[aristobrat]

Two things:

Sony, Lenovo (ThinkPad), and Dell both make dual-core notebooks just as powerful (if not more so) than the MacBook and most of their models case temperatures are significant COOLER than the MacBook, so no, it's not "just the nature of the beast".

Also, there's posts here about how turning off one core causes the other core to have to work harder to compenstate, INCREASING the heat of the CPU.

[aristotles]

Uh, your ambient temperature is 40 and you are wondering why the inside temperature is 90? Are you kidding me? Did you expect it to be cooler than the ambient temperature? You are smoking crack if you believe that.

[dimplemonkey]

OK, so do you want them scrambled, over easy, or sunny-side up?

Originally Posted by galaga

Suggestion for a standardised heat test:

Run yes> dev/null for 15 minutes

Flip Macbook upside down

Crack one large, grade A free-range egg on the bottom

Record time it takes to fry egg

Post time for comparison (stating whether egg was over easy or sunny side up)

[Dillon-K]

Um, I'd rather not put a raw egg on my MacBook, thanks... However, I may do it with my old thinkpad, hehe.

[dimplemonkey]

Seriously folks, I've had my MBP since March. It had heat issues that were extremely uncomfortable. I called AppleCare and they offered to take it and fix it. When I got it back, it did get hot when I started using it again, but when I let it idle, the temps did go down considerably. Yes, it was still hot but not like it was when I first bought it. I unplug the power and the heat goes down even more.

I bought a little table fan before I sent it off to keep the temps down and it helped a lot but it was still hot. Now, the fan actually keeps it cold to the touch. I expect things to be fine from this point on.

[pliny]

There is a Dell laptop i use on occassion that is so hot omg it almost burned me, in fact I think it did cause me a serious burn! Stupid thread alright.

And this is a Dell laptop that is a couple of years old. And then there is the Thinkpad--hot too but not as much as the Dell, which is big.

Hmm. What else can I whine about?

[jengels]

on my white MacBook (2Ghz, 2G RAM, OS X 10.4.7)I am currently running, and have been for over an hour, Photoshop CS2, iPhoto, iTunes, Safari, Mail, Word, URL Pro, PathFinder, LaunchBar and Instant Handbrake. My ambient temperature is 28.3° C. My CPU temperatures have not exceeded 80°C. This is similar to the temperature ranges on my 20" iMac G5, also 2G of RAM, and while the case, top and bottom, is hot, it is not nearly hot enough to burn flesh. I've experimented with it on my lap, and while it makes for a sweaty crotch, it is not a danger. Intel says that 100° C is the top range for this CPU. So I'm not sure what all the excitement is about. I do not believe the claims of being burned.

[schvenk]

I do actually think there's a legitimate issue here. I returned a MacBook Pro a couple weeks back, in large part because of the heat it was generating. Replaced it with a MacBook largely due to how much cooler my girlfriend's MacBook was.

So, now we have two MacBooks here. Granted, one is a 1.83/512/60 and the other a 2.0/2GB/120, but I find it difficult to believe the spec differences account for the significant difference in heat. Hers doesn't get beyond what I would describe as "very warm," whereas mine really does get much hotter. On top, it's annoyingly warm, particularly in the upper left quadrant. On the bottom, it can get hot enough to hurt if you leave your hand in the wrong place for too long, particularly in the rear left and rear center. This occurs while I'm using it but even if it's just awake overnight.

Interestingly, CPU temps aren't ridiculous, usually in the 65-75 C range (higher when I'm working in MS Office, perhaps due to Rosetta).

Now, how how it's "OK" for a laptop to get is clearly a matter of opinion, though I don't think it's unreasonable to say there ought to be a limit. But setting that aside, the simple fact that there's such a difference between two MacBooks would seem to suggest that something's not right.

[j0nkatz]

Yeah mine is pretty unbearable. I have 3 friends who are awaiting a fix before they even think of buying a macbook. Hopefully we will get a firmware update soon.

[kentuckyfried]

I don't think the temperature problem's going away for awhile. It is pretty hot to the touch...I wouldn't think of letting this set on my bare leg. With jeans? Ok.

[kentuckyfried]

There's a point here...the manual actually mentions this.

Originally Posted by whoisjohngalt

It doesn't matter what everyone calls them - Apple calls them notebooks, and tells you not to work with the computer on your lap.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

You need to call Jackie if you burned yourself on a MacBook

I second this motion. Just don't put the balm on. Jackie doesn't like that.

But seriously, my PowerBook G4 gets pretty hot to the touch. This isn't a MacBook "issue." Modern chips run hot. So Apple has to decide whether or not to run the fans constantly, or let the case get warm.

[Dillon-K]

this thread is retarded. get the f**k over it and sit it on the arm of a chair or couch, or sit the damn thing on a desk.

[kentuckyfried]

Sitting it on your lap is bad anyhow...even if you don't burn your legs, it's a one way ticket to carpel tunnel syndrome.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

this thread is retarded. get the f**k over it and sit it on the arm of a chair or couch, or sit the damn thing on a desk.

Right, right, retarded thread, quite complaining, blah blah.

Wouldn't want Apple to see these threads and actually give the case temperature more consideration on the next go-round of MacBook/Pros now, would we?

Nope, nope ... just sit here and be quiet. Everything that Apple does is perfection, so no need to speak about anything about their products that you think they could do a better job on. Pass the Kool-Aid, please.

[MovieCutter]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Right, right, retarded thread, quite complaining, blah blah.

Wouldn't want Apple to see these threads and actually give the case temperature more consideration on the next go-round of MacBook/Pros now, would we?

Nope, nope ... just sit here and be quiet. Everything that Apple does is perfection, so no need to speak about anything about their products that you think they could do a better job on. Pass the Kool-Aid, please.

Wow "brat" really suits you. This clearly an exaggeration by an attenton-deprived hypochondriac. These machines are just gonna get hotter and thinner, get used to it dude. Nobody in the industry can keep machines as compact as the MacBook or MacBook Pro cool enough so idiots like this don't "burn" their hands.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Two things:

Sony, Lenovo (ThinkPad), and Dell both make dual-core notebooks just as powerful (if not more so) than the MacBook and most of their models case temperatures are significant COOLER than the MacBook, so no, it's not "just the nature of the beast".

Also, there's posts here about how turning off one core causes the other core to have to work harder to compenstate, INCREASING the heat of the CPU.

It would be nice if you told the whole story about the Lenovo. The casing doesn't get very hot like the MacBook because it's fans blow the hot air out of the vents of the computer making the heat dissipation feel like a hair dryer. Apple designs their notebooks to dissipate heat differently which results in a very warm bottom casing which by the way is not an excuse, it's just the way it is.
Furthermore, what's the big deal if the notebook gets hot, I have gone to countless coffee shops and even airports and I hardly see anyone using their notebook on their bare lap.

I just have one question for anyone thinking their MacBook is defective because of the heat, is the MacBook malfunctioning or is OSX acting buggy or is it crashing or is the Superdrive not burning properly based on the heat? If so then you have a valid complaint.

[kentuckyfried]

^ It's just another thing for people to be particular. To each his own.

The LCD display has allowance for one dead pixel to meet design criteria. Really, it should be zero, but that would drive up cost. So Apple takes the risk that most people won't complain about one dead pixel.

In my case when I first got the macbook, that's one thing that agonized me. I hate dead pixels on displays, especially ones that are dead center of the screen where I can always see it. So I went to the trouble of driving 20 min. in an attempt to exchange for a "good" one, and I got lucky the 2nd time around.

For these others...even though it's not really designed to be used on the lap, they seem fixated on the laptop hotness being an issue. Again, maybe it's the case that the temperate of some of these books way exceeds the spec and some random people are getting the skin on their legs burned off, so let them be.

[schvenk]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

But seriously, my PowerBook G4 gets pretty hot to the touch. This isn't a MacBook "issue." Modern chips run hot. So Apple has to decide whether or not to run the fans constantly, or let the case get warm.

All notebooks definitely get hot to some degree. The TiBook G4 667MHz I replaced certainly heated up...but the MBP I returned and the MB I currently have are significantly hotter than that. It's a question of severity.

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

this thread is retarded. get the f**k over it and sit it on the arm of a chair or couch, or sit the damn thing on a desk.

...and when I'm on a train, or working in a car?

I'd argue that the notebook form factor evolved (among other things) to support lap use. One reason is that in some cases the lap is the only available surface. The fact that Apple's own marketing materials contained images and references to lap usage until recently would seem to bear this out.

[schvenk]

Originally Posted by MovieCutter

Wow "brat" really suits you. This clearly an exaggeration by an attenton-deprived hypochondriac. These machines are just gonna get hotter and thinner, get used to it dude. Nobody in the industry can keep machines as compact as the MacBook or MacBook Pro cool enough so idiots like this don't "burn" their hands.

So why not make them a little thicker then?

[kentuckyfried]

Consumers always wants faster speed, bigger displays, and lighter weight. No point in adding unnecessary thickness unless there is a structural issue (e.g. the laptop is physically bending).

The people with heat complaints...are you guys actually uncomfortable to the touch of the macbook even when wearing thick pants, like a pair of jeans? I'm guessing that is the case.

Originally Posted by schvenk

So why not make them a little thicker then?

[Dillon-K]

Well, I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a thin-form-factor laptop than have a Lenovo that could be used as a hair dryer. It's like they should call that "tiger" because the thing ROARS.

[pheonixash]

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

Well, I'm sorry, but I'd rather have a thin-form-factor laptop than have a Lenovo that could be used as a hair dryer. It's like they should call that "tiger" because the thing ROARS.

Umm...no it doesn't. My T43 is the quietest laptop I've used to date. You can only hear it if there's a DVD spinning, otherwise it's extremely silent. Even the fans come on only ocassionally. The DVD drive of the MacBook is better, but the fans of the MB are louder than the ThinkPad, WHEN they come on.

[Dillon-K]

well... older thinkpads**

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by hldan

It would be nice if you told the whole story about the Lenovo. The casing doesn't get very hot like the MacBook because it's fans blow the hot air out of the vents of the computer making the heat dissipation feel like a hair dryer.

I did exactly that, about 20 posts ago. Hair dryer? Hardly. The fans in my T42/T60 are absolutely silent. Apparently the trick is to have then on and running at a low RPM *before* the heat builds up in the first place.

Originally Posted by MovieCutter

These machines are just gonna get hotter and thinner, get used to it dude. Nobody in the industry can keep machines as compact as the MacBook or MacBook Pro cool enough so idiots like this don't "burn" their hands.

The MacBook is 2.75 cm thin.
The ThinkPad T60 is 3.01 cm thin.

You're trying make the point that because the MacBook is .26 of a centimeter thinner that the bottom of its case has to feel 40-50'F hotter to the touch?

If thinness was the issue, then running a MacBook Pros fans all the time wouldn't make it feel COLD to the touch (or barely warm under a high CPU load).

The issue is fans. Specifically, the set point at which Apple is chosing to turn them on.

[Dillon-K]

If you don't like macs get the hell out.

EDIT: yeah, that was a crap post, sorry... I guess I'll post here what I thought of what hldan just said:

Basically, all laptops get uncomfortable if they're in your lap for too long... could you honestly HOLD a laptop long enough for it to be uncomfortable with out already getting uncomfortable for some other reason...? I can't sit still for an hour and a half without getting up, at least not in my leasure time.

[hldan]

[QUOTE=aristobrat]I did exactly that, about 20 posts ago. Hair dryer? Hardly. The fans in my T42/T60 are absolutely silent. Apparently the trick is to have then on and running at a low RPM *before* the heat builds up in the first place.

Um, re-read my post, I never said your Lenovo "sounded" like a hair dryer, I mentioned that it gets hot as well, the heat dissipates through the vents and it feels like a hair dryer blowing hot air. I have 2 friends with T42 and they complain all the time about the hair dryer feel especially when gaming.
My point is that the IBM's, Lenovo, whatever they are called aren't anymore exempt from heat. Intel makes the chips and that's where the heat comes from, it just depends on how the heat is dissipated.

This post is so greatly exaggerated, some of the posters make it seem as though the MacBook's can't be used on the lap at all. I have a MacBook Pro and 17" PowerBook and yes they get hot but only during game playing. When used on my lap I am generally web surfing or typing documents which is what most people are do and they don't heat up very much. Extended periods will cause discomfort and Apple mentions that so what's the big deal?

[HAGEhead]

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

If you don't like macs get the hell out.

THAT is quite mature.

[wako]

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

Basically, all laptops get uncomfortable if they're in your lap for too long... could you honestly HOLD a laptop long enough for it to be uncomfortable with out already getting uncomfortable for some other reason...?

Nope, i have a Gateway laptop (Centrino) and it never got uncomfortable to me. It somehow always stays near room temperature. About 10 or 15 degrees Fahrenheit above usually so it never becomes uncomfortable. Maybe after two hours it might, but it just feels warm, which is nice in the winter

However my MacBook is able to make me feel uncomfortable within 5 minutes. That is outrageous. It gets up to 120 degrees Fahrenheit on the OUTSIDE pretty easily. That itself can cause a first degree burn easily.

When i called AppleCare about it, the guy said, "Oh its normal, I get calls where people have their laptop going up to 140 degrees on the ouside and is still considered in spec." If you havent done a few quick searches, you would know at those temperatures, that can easily give you a 2nd degree burn if not a 3rd.


MacBooks, pros or not pros have a huge flaw of it having a terrible form factor. It looks nice and all and convenient to have the ports on the side, but the trade off has become the vents being blocked and having a system that can now cook an egg.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by wako

that can easily give you a 2nd degree burn if not a 3rd.

Excuse me, but your spreading FUD. 140F will not give you a third degree burn. Do you have an idea what a third degree burn looks like? It includes charring and eschars. Normally people that suffered from third degree burns get skin grafts. Not what you meant, huh?

I understand that you don't like your MB case at 140F, but making childish exaggerations does not support your issue. It's quite the opposite actually.

[pheonixash]

Originally Posted by hldan

Um, re-read my post, I never said your Lenovo "sounded" like a hair dryer, I mentioned that it gets hot as well, the heat dissipates through the vents and it feels like a hair dryer blowing hot air. I have 2 friends with T42 and they complain all the time about the hair dryer feel especially when gaming.
My point is that the IBM's, Lenovo, whatever they are called aren't anymore exempt from heat. Intel makes the chips and that's where the heat comes from, it just depends on how the heat is dissipated.

This post is so greatly exaggerated, some of the posters make it seem as though the MacBook's can't be used on the lap at all. I have a MacBook Pro and 17" PowerBook and yes they get hot but only during game playing. When used on my lap I am generally web surfing or typing documents which is what most people are do and they don't heat up very much. Extended periods will cause discomfort and Apple mentions that so what's the big deal?

Um, I don't think you can comment on a ThinkPad without owning one. I can tell you for damn sure it does seem like a hair dryer at all. If you place your hand near the vent on the MacBook when the fans are on, you'll get the exact same feeling as with your hand outside the vent on the side of the ThinkPad. It's no hair dryer.

[pheonixash]

Originally Posted by MovieCutter

Wow "brat" really suits you. This clearly an exaggeration by an attenton-deprived hypochondriac. These machines are just gonna get hotter and thinner, get used to it dude. Nobody in the industry can keep machines as compact as the MacBook or MacBook Pro cool enough so idiots like this don't "burn" their hands.

Umm....the ThinkPad X60? It's 0.8" thick. That's 0.28" LESS than the MacBook. Oh, and it also runs about 25 degrees cooler. So don't make unwarranted claims.

[wako]

Originally Posted by Simon

Excuse me, but your spreading FUD. 140F will not give you a third degree burn. Do you have an idea what a third degree burn looks like? It includes charring and eschars. Normally people that suffered from third degree burns get skin grafts. Not what you meant, huh?

I understand that you don't like your MB case at 140F, but making childish exaggerations does not support your issue. It's quite the opposite actually.

It isnt FUD...


http://www.cqc.state.ny.us/newsletter/estime.htm



you can find more through google. It is dependant from person to person on their thickness of skin. For a child, it could definitely cause a third degree burn. That is why I said, it can easily cause a 2nd degree burn if not a 3rd degree.


And it is childish for you to name call when you yourself have not educated yourself about the subject.

[Simon]

Blah blah blah. If you leave your hand on a 140F surface for prolonged periods of time of course you will suffer burns. If you touch a 140F surface, realize it's hot and remove your hand nothing will happen. And if you my friend got a third degree burn from your MB because you were too stupid to remove your hand, you really deserve every bit of the pain.

Btw, if MBs would be causing 3rd degree burns people would sue the hell out of Apple. Fact is, not one single ruling against Apple due to burns has been reported. What does that tell us?

God.

[Simon]

Just for the record - this is a second degree burn.



As long as nobody shows something like this coming from MB use, the whole 'OMG the suxxor my MB burned me' baloney is just a big pile of inflated bullcrap. It's no coincidence it's coming from people who registered a couple of days ago.

[wako]

Originally Posted by Simon

Blah blah blah. If you leave your hand on a 140F surface for prolonged periods of time of course you will suffer burns. If you touch a 140F surface, realize it's hot and remove your hand nothing will happen. And if you my friend got a third degree burn from your MB because you were too stupid to remove your hand, you really deserve every bit of the pain.

Btw, if MBs would be causing 3rd degree burns people would sue the hell out of Apple. Fact is, not one single ruling against Apple due to burns has been reported. What does that tell us?

God.

So now you choose to ignore the facts just because you have been proven wrong, showing your ignorance.

Although if someone touched a hot surface you would usually pull back from the surface or the hot object, the matter of the case is that the system CAN give a 2nd degree burn. Not including, if you have a macbook, you should realize the temperature can fluxuate quite rapidly from a nice cool room temperature to a burning 120 easily. If someone had that on their lap, they can get burned.

Just because you have some type of seniority here, does not mean you are suddenly more entitled to some type of legitimacy on what you say. You have just proven you are ignorant with the comment on ignoring the facts. The evidence is there, it can burn, yet you are now playing dumb.

Grow up kid

[Simon]

Kid? I'm 36. I really think you can knock it off now.

I showed you what a 2nd degree burn looks like. Until you show up with something like that, all this 'burn' talk is nothing but hot air. These are the simple facts. I'm done here.

[wako]

Originally Posted by Simon

Kid? I'm 36. I really think you can knock it off now.

I showed you what a 2nd degree burn looks like. Until you show up with something like that, all this 'burn' talk is nothing but hot air. These are the simple facts. I'm done here.

how is it hot air when I just gave you the facts that you can suffer a 2nd degree burn from the temperature of the outside case of a macbook?


You might be 36, but you sure have the intelligence of a 10 year old.

[Dillon-K]

All right, people, chill out.... we don't want the mods to come in do we?

[hldan]

Yes, you guys please play nice, this is forum for help and sharing of Mac experiences (wish they were all more positive) and, not to fight. One thing to note, if someone has actually experienced "skin burning" from their MacBook then that person should be addressing this with Apple and even more so a lawsuit should be in the plan. If none of the above actions are taken and they only choose to come to MacNN to tell of their experience well then it's that person's loss since nobody here can do anything about it.
Last note, good judgement on how to use your computer should always be first at hand. Some things can be handled properly by just using common sense.

[itguy05]

Originally Posted by Dillon-K

EVERYONE calls them laptops and EVERYONE puts them on their laps...

If Everyone jumped off a bridge......

Just because Everyone does something does not make it correct.

[MiniMoe]

My MacBook is a week 26 and it just gets warm with normal use. I use it on my lap for hours at a time in my La-Z-Boy reclined with the foot rest up. It's no warmer than my Dell 8600, but definitely thinner and lighter. As with the Dell, I occasionally put it up on the chair arm.

[Case]

Mines a week 24 and doesnt go above 73 C with tons of Apps open. Normal temp is about 58 C

[aristobrat]

Here're a great article comparing the difference in heat between a MacBook and a similiarly equipped Dell:
http://www.krischeonline.com/staticp...p?page=macbook


Or, to sum it up in a picture:

[Simon]

So the biggest difference is 14F/8C? Underwhelming. Judging by all the heat rants I saw on this board, I would have expected a greater difference.

And it gets even better: "...in the end, it appears to be that, in certain spots, the MacBook is significantly hotter than the Dell, but its average temperature is very close to that of the Dell...".

If a fat and fugly case as well as fan noise is the price to pay for this minor temp reduction, I'm glad Apple made the choice they did.

[elcheapo]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Here're a great article comparing the difference in heat between a MacBook and a similiarly equipped Dell:

Hmm, after using my Dell 610 for a bit it does get hot. Seems to be that people are used to the temps of older powerbooks with CPUs that ran cooler.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by Simon

So the biggest difference is 14F/8C? Underwhelming. Judging by all the heat rants I saw on this board, I would have expected a greater difference.

Put a 120'F MacBook on your lap and see exactly how underwhelming that 14'F is.

A 14'F difference is the difference between the water in a hot tub and the water that comes from your hot water heater. It's also the difference between a nice 76'F spring day and a hot 90'F summer day.

The MacBook's temp average is close to the Dell's temp average only because 6 of the 8 temperature readings are similar. Unfortunately, that doesn't make the the 2 spots that average out in Excel (the MacBook's upper/lower left corner) any cooler for MB owners.

I use a Dell D620 everyday at work. There is no fan noise. Oh, and it's a whole .45 centimeter taller. (The other dimensions are hard to compare since the smallest screen the D620 ships with is 14").

Originally Posted by elcheapo

Seems to be that people are used to the temps of older powerbooks with CPUs that ran cooler.

FWIW, my other half still has a 15" G4 PowerBook and its processor (65-70C) is usually hotter than my MacBooks (55-62C), even though the PB case is much cooler.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Put a 120'F MacBook on your lap and see exactly how underwhelming that 14'F is.

IMHO it is very underwhelming. I actually own a MB and a MBP as well as several PowerBooks. Both the MB and MBP are perfectly fine to use on my lap. Definitely warm, but not too hot. And they're both very quiet. Just the way I like them.

[imitchellg5]

The MacBook still isn't as hot as my PowerBook. It normally runs at about 110 degrees F due to the warp in the case which blocks the fan vents. I hope it doesn't melt.