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w or M
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Andrew Stephens
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May 10, 2004, 10:48 AM
 
Just noticed one teeny tiny nag with my new PB15". The M key on my Ti Book looked like aproper M not an inverted W. The w and M keys on the new keyboard are the same just turned upside down (the're not actually but it's close). For some reason my brain seems to be better at spotting an upside down W than an M and the new keyboard design makes me keep stopping and having to work it out 'manually'.

Still, if that's the worst of my complaints thaen I must be pretty happy!!

     
jaxxe
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May 10, 2004, 11:45 AM
 
Originally posted by Andrew Stephens:
Just noticed one teeny tiny nag with my new PB15". The M key on my Ti Book looked like aproper M not an inverted W. The w and M keys on the new keyboard are the same just turned upside down (the're not actually but it's close). For some reason my brain seems to be better at spotting an upside down W than an M and the new keyboard design makes me keep stopping and having to work it out 'manually'.

Still, if that's the worst of my complaints thaen I must be pretty happy!!

You're right! I just noticed on my new PB15". Good eyes. :-)
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iREZ
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May 10, 2004, 12:08 PM
 
All Alu powerbooks use the same keyboards, and this is a moot point. Instead of getting flustered you should start to train yourself not to look at the keys as much, better typing skills increases productivity in whatever you do. I do agree that the key's look identical though, everything except for the zero in the lower right side of the key.
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Andrew Stephens  (op)
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May 10, 2004, 01:12 PM
 
That's one of the reasons why I,m not too bothered. My typing is gettng better, so I don't look at the keys so much. It's just an interesting example of the brains abilities at pattern recognition, and perhaps a company as 'visual' as apple should have noticed!
     
ibook_steve
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May 10, 2004, 01:13 PM
 
I agree with iREZ. In this day and age, how can anybody get by without knowing how to touch type? I learned in junior high (1986-87) and never looked back. Hunt and peck is not going to get you anywhere fast, though they actually have created an ABC (vs QWERTY) keyboard for such people (seen on Fresh Gear).

Steve
     
JHromadka
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May 10, 2004, 01:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Andrew Stephens:
Just noticed one teeny tiny nag with my new PB15". The M key on my Ti Book looked like aproper M not an inverted W. The w and M keys on the new keyboard are the same just turned upside down (the're not actually but it's close).
I noticed this too, even though I touch-type. Maybe Apple saves $.003 by doing it that way. I wonder what font is used for the keys on the keyboard?
     
Person Man
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May 10, 2004, 05:33 PM
 
Originally posted by ibook_steve:
In this day and age, how can anybody get by without knowing how to touch type?

<snip>

Hunt and peck is not going to get you anywhere fast, though they actually have created an ABC (vs QWERTY) keyboard for such people (seen on Fresh Gear).

Steve
I can type pretty fast with only two fingers, and I don't have to look down at the keyboard very much to do so. And this is on a standard QWERTY keyboard as well.

People ask me, "how can you type so fast with only two fingers?"
     
madmacgames
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May 10, 2004, 07:11 PM
 
I think it is the typset used. Whose to say what a proper capital "m" should and should not look like?

I have a number of fonts installed use slanted sides on a capital "m", one of which is "Apple LiGothic" which bears a striking resemblance to whatever typeset was used for the letters on the keyboard
     
Andrew Stephens  (op)
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May 11, 2004, 04:24 PM
 
yes of course it's down to the font used, however this doesn't excuse a lack of legibility. This is a human interface issue not a typeface one. The point is that Apple have changed the design on the keys to an obviously less efficient (from a hman point of view). Maybe the font o the keys looks more modern now but this is perhaps one area where function should take precidence.

After a few days I seem to have adjusted, but perhaps I shouldn't have had too!

btw The actual keyboard seems much nicer to use than my Ti keyboard so no complaints about the mechanics of it all.
     
madmacgames
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May 17, 2004, 04:53 PM
 
Originally posted by Andrew Stephens:
yes of course it's down to the font used, however this doesn't excuse a lack of legibility.
Uh, if you could not immediately tell it was a captial M, then I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you to read. You must really struggle.

If a machine was scanning the keys, then it might have a bit of a problem recognizing it, if it was programmed to read it with straight edges... but alas we are humans and our minds are quite flexible

After a few days I seem to have adjusted, but perhaps I shouldn't have had too!
You are quite right! You shouldn't have to even look at it to know that it is the "M" key. If you looked at it and actually thought, "Oh man, those idiots at the factory put the 'W' key on upside down", I feel really bad for you (and scared for the future of society)
     
iREZ
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May 17, 2004, 04:59 PM
 
After a few days I seem to have adjusted, but perhaps I shouldn't have had too!
Wow!!! What a good point you make, infact you shouldn't have to adjust to how far away your head is from the screen, or perhaps you shouldn't have to use your finger to control the trackpad, and the sound level should be automatically changed to fit your mood. Those wacky Apple guys with their keyboards, manuel speakers, and trackpads, what a bunch of silly bitches.

You can't honestly say it's Apples fault for your adjustment to the keyboard, can you?
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JHromadka
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May 17, 2004, 05:10 PM
 
Originally posted by madmacgames:
Uh, if you could not immediately tell it was a captial M, then I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you to read. You must really struggle.
I don't think the point of the original poster was that there was this key on his keyboard that he wasn't familiar with. For whatever reason, the font that Apple chose for their capital M is not drawn how people are traditionaly taught when learning penmanship, so people noticed.
Writing the letter M
Writing the letter W

Although they are in italics, notice that the M is writen with vertical lines on the left and right sides while the W is angled.

M = |\/| W = \/\/

Our eyes, which have seen this since grade school, notice the "upside down" M. It could also be because of the letter M's placement near the popular Enter and arrow keys. You're more likely to casually glance in that area, so you notice.

And if I want to look at the purty illuminated keys from time to time, I will!
     
Andrew Stephens  (op)
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May 17, 2004, 05:14 PM
 
So, you're saying I should just move on!

Who knows what I might get obsessed with next ;-)
     
iREZ
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May 17, 2004, 05:24 PM
 
Ha. Here's a good one, check the bristle stiffness on your slot loading drive, just a joke.
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rag on a muffin
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May 17, 2004, 08:00 PM
 
which 2 foingers do you type with? both hands, or 1 hand? i wopuld kill for a one handed skilled typer
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hldan
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May 17, 2004, 08:23 PM
 
Sorry to be rude, but this is so not an issue. If your Powerbook is working and no display issues, no funky stuck pixels and no hardware failure then just enjoy it. The M W key design is Apple's decision and I can't beleive it was even noticed. I hope you are using your computer for productive things instead of studying the keyboard font design.
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tooki
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May 18, 2004, 06:47 PM
 
Originally posted by JHromadka:
I noticed this too, even though I touch-type. Maybe Apple saves $.003 by doing it that way. I wonder what font is used for the keys on the keyboard?
They don't save a cent, because the M key isn't an upside-down W key: the M key also has the little 0 (zero, not O) on it for the embedded numeric keypad. Both keys are still made separately.

tooki
     
JHromadka
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May 18, 2004, 07:21 PM
 
I was just joking ya know!
     
   
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