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digiology2 · Jun 1, 2004, 10:44 AM

I noticed some load on my cpu when surfing the net and I noticed a program 'python' listed six times when I typed 'top' into the terminal. They stopped using my cpu to some degree after a few second.

What is this? It doesn't show up on the force quit window so it must be hidden?

wulf · Jun 1, 2004, 11:08 AM

What is Python?

RevEvs · Jun 1, 2004, 11:11 AM

Are yu running any BitTorrent apps? A few of them are actually frontends to a python bittorrent client

Millennium · Jun 1, 2004, 11:20 AM

Python is a programming language. Unlike apps written in C++ or Objective-C (most Carbon and Cocoa apps fall into this category), a single Python app can usually be run on many different platforms, not just Macs, as long as the author is careful about it. It does this by running each of these programs inside an interpreter, a special app which reads the source code and then tells the computer what to do based on what it finds.

There is one slight problem with this; because each program runs inside another program, it is the interpreter which shows up in top, not the program itself. The interpreter for Python is, appropriately enough, called python. That is what you are seeing. OSX is smart enough to display the actual program's name inside its own process windows, but top can't do that.

The most popular Python app for OSX right now is the official BitTorrent client; are you running that, by any chance?

digiology2 · Jun 2, 2004, 01:43 PM

Yeah I was running Tomato Torrent, it looks like an interesting language to learn...

Thanks

Millennium · Jun 2, 2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by digiology2:
Yeah I was running Tomato Torrent, it looks like an interesting language to learn...

As languages go, it's actually quite nice. Some people find the whitespace issue to be annoying, but I like it a lot, to be honest.

h00ligan · Jun 3, 2004, 12:40 AM

yah python is also a great starting language, as it can sort of gently lead you in to more hardcore languages.

kcm3 · Jun 3, 2004, 08:07 AM

The whitespace can be annoying, but it pretty much forces your code to be visually pleasing, which is nice for those of us who might otherwise be too lazy. It's kind of like your mom forcing you to make your bed as a kid. It's a pain in the butt, and you don't really see the point, because it's YOUR room, but then when there's company over, you sure are glad you did it.

Richard Edgar · Jun 3, 2004, 09:22 AM

Unlike apps written in C++ or Objective-C (most Carbon and Cocoa apps fall into this category), a single Python app can usually be run on many different platforms, not just Macs, as long as the author is careful about it

As a general rule, if you stick to the language standard, your program will run on quite a variety of systems. This obviously doesn't apply to platform-specific languages, such as AppleScript, but neither C++ nor Objective-C fall into this category.

Chuckit · Jun 3, 2004, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
As a general rule, if you stick to the language standard, your program will run on quite a variety of systems. This obviously doesn't apply to platform-specific languages, such as AppleScript, but neither C++ nor Objective-C fall into this category.

You have to recompile to make a C++ or Objective-C app work on different system; with Python, the same app file can be used everywhere. I think that's the distinction that was being made.

Richard Edgar · Jun 4, 2004, 05:53 AM

You have to recompile to make a C++ or Objective-C app work on different system; with Python, the same app file can be used everywhere. I think that's the distinction that was being made

If so, it's a remarkably poor distinction, since with Python you'll have to change the interpreter.

Chuckit · Jun 4, 2004, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
If so, it's a remarkably poor distinction, since with Python you'll have to change the interpreter.

Unless I'm very mixed up on the matter, pretty much any system with a working Python interpreter should be able to run pretty much any given Python app. The same is not true of C++ apps, which can only be compiled if you have the source.

I'm not arguing that Python is better because of this; just that it does have a certain inherent portability that you don't find in languages that compile to machine code.

Millennium · Jun 4, 2004, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
Unless I'm very mixed up on the matter, pretty much any system with a working Python interpreter should be able to run pretty much any given Python app. The same is not true of C++ apps, which can only be compiled if you have the source.

I'm not arguing that Python is better because of this; just that it does have a certain inherent portability that you don't find in languages that compile to machine code.

I think his point is that you still need a platform-specific runtime, and is trying to say that the apps are "not really portable" because of this. I disagree, but I think that's his argument.

Richard Edgar · Jun 4, 2004, 10:26 AM

I think his point is that you still need a platform-specific runtime, and is trying to say that the apps are "not really portable" because of this

You think incorrectly. The point is that, if you confine yourself to ISO/ANSI standard C++ (or just about any language) it will compile and run more or less anywhere. That is why language standards exist.

Chuckit · 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
You think incorrectly. The point is that, if you confine yourself to ISO/ANSI standard C++ (or just about any language) it will compile and run more or less anywhere. That is why language standards exist.

But the point is that the same "executable" (I know I'm using the term a little loosely here) can run on any system regardless of whether or not the app was compiled for it. For many people, that's one of the big draws of languages like Java and Python over compiled languages like C and Fortran.

Richard Edgar · Jun 4, 2004, 12:49 PM

But the point is that the same "executable" (I know I'm using the term a little loosely here) can run on any system regardless of whether or not the app was compiled for it

So, Python is more portable because you only need an interpreter written for your system, whereas C++ (or many other languages) require a compiler written for your system? We appear to be plumbing new depths of illogic here.

Chuckit · Jun 4, 2004, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
So, Python is more portable because you only need an interpreter written for your system, whereas C++ (or many other languages) require a compiler written for your system? We appear to be plumbing new depths of illogic here.

If I send you an executable I made using ANSI C on Gentoo Linux on an x86 machine, do you really think it's going to work on your Mac OS X computer just because you have a compiler?

Richard Edgar · Jun 4, 2004, 01:08 PM

If I send you an executable I made using ANSI C on Gentoo Linux on an x86 machine, do you really think it's going to work on your Mac OS X computer just because you have a compiler?

Of course not. But the executable isn't the source code, is it? What's the material difference between a C source file and a python script?

Millennium · Jun 4, 2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
You think incorrectly. The point is that, if you confine yourself to ISO/ANSI standard C++ (or just about any language) it will compile and run more or less anywhere. That is why language standards exist.

Point taken, but your app will also generally be severely limited in terms of functionality (particularly with ISO/ANSI standard C++). Non-standard tools exist for every OS out there; they're practically a necessary fact of life. The fact is that most interpreted languages have managed to bridge many of these issues, allowing for far greater functionality while remaining portable.

Of course, they also eliminate the compilation step, which is itself quite a plus.

Chuckit · Jun 4, 2004, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Of course not. But the executable isn't the source code, is it? What's the material difference between a C source file and a python script?

Well, a Python script is actually executable. Besides that, though, it's possible to distribute Python executables as bytecode, much like Java, so Python app != script.