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You are here: MacNN Forums > Our Archives > General Archives > Delicious Monster > DL2 - move info stuff back to right side?

 
DL2 - move info stuff back to right side?
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mwyner
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May 28, 2008, 02:17 PM
 
I really really am disliking that all the info about movies, books, etc is now underneath the shelves instead of on the right side like it used to be. I can barely read any of the synopsis without shrinking my shelves down.

Please tell me there's a way to move it back like it was in DL1 - on the right side of the shelves so I don't have to scroll or shrink my shelves to see everything. If not, then I'd really like this put in as a preference for the future.
     
Zoe Smith
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May 28, 2008, 02:22 PM
 
Nope, there's no way to change it back to how it was - I wish there was too. I played with the beta and we've just got to lump it, I'm afraid.
     
anyrandomthing
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May 28, 2008, 03:15 PM
 
the situation is pretty funny -- there is almost complete consensus, as far as i see it, that the pane should be on the right (or just pop-up). but someone probably wanted to please apple's guidelines, so while some human interface executive at apple is happy, everyone else is pretty disappointed.
     
Sinemacula
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May 28, 2008, 06:17 PM
 
Add another to the disappointed list. It's almost enough to make me want to go back to DL1 - I'm not sure the other changes/improvements are compelling enough for me to outweigh my dislike of the info pane where it is now.
MacBook Pro 2.4GHz; 4GB RAM; 23" Cinema Display
iPhone
Mac OS X 10.5.4
______________________________________
If you don't know where you want to go, any road will take you there.
     
turtle777
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May 28, 2008, 08:21 PM
 
WTF did you beta testers do all day ?

You should have reported this crap on a daily basis.

Well, in 2012, we might get DL 3

-t
     
Zoe Smith
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May 29, 2008, 04:17 AM
 
*shrug*

We pretty much did.
     
Ed S
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May 29, 2008, 11:15 AM
 
You should have reported this crap on a daily basis.
Not daily, but several times via several different methods (bug report, email, forum post). Eventually got a response: "This will not be fixed, stop bugging us".

It's a shame. I find the info-at-bottom format unusable, but was madly testing the beta regardless. One of my bug reports even got me a "free DL2" offer... which I won't be using. I'm sticking with DL1, and when time allows, will evaluate the competition and migrate to one of them. I'm quite sad about it, because I like DL1 and had such high hopes for DL2.
     
illitrate
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May 29, 2008, 11:52 AM
 
is that your only gripe with the software? the info panel at the bottom?
seems like you're pretty majorly disapointed with the app if you're planning to move elsewhere, but the location of the info panel doesn't seem like it would be a big enough issue. what else is wrong?
(admittedly, i haven't had a chance to try it yet and find out just how annoying that info panel might be - it's still upgrading my library....)
     
MDNZ
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May 29, 2008, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
WTF did you beta testers do all day ?
You should have reported this crap on a daily basis.
Interesting sentiment you share to everyone that contributes to the DL project, not just Wil and DM team!
In fact Beta testers volunteer their time to assist (what were you doing all day). I would say most were putting time in evenings, aside from work, family and friends.

Anyhow, it had been raised many times and discussed. How it is implemented, conforms with the Apple HCI design guide (eg identical to iTunes). Prior to Beta release there was a popup preview which vanished (shown in early preview screen shots).

Re-designing to have view on right is a significant change and you get the choice of shipping DL or holding for redesign. I know my pref is ship and possibly fix in a point release (eg 2.1).
     
MDNZ
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May 29, 2008, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by anyrandomthing View Post
the situation is pretty funny -- there is almost complete consensus, as far as i see it, that the pane should be on the right (or just pop-up). but someone probably wanted to please apple's guidelines, so while some human interface executive at apple is happy, everyone else is pretty disappointed.
Pretty much spot on on the consensus. A lot of change in DL2 was standardisation of components, design, architecture, frameworks, scripting.... so along with it comes some of the things we may not agree to in the Apple HCI standard
     
-LD
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May 29, 2008, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by MDNZ View Post
Interesting sentiment you share to everyone that contributes to the DL project, not just Wil and DM team!
First, DL is not a project, it's a product. Second, you didn't "contribute" or help in any way. Wil did all the work. Sure, maybe you pointed out a bug, but don't put yourself up on a pedestal and try to take credit for helping with DL.

It seems no one likes the info pane where it is. While it may work properly for something like iTunes, it doesn't work for DL with the way the rest of it is designed. That needs to be taken into consideration. You have to see the forest for the trees.
     
turtle777
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May 29, 2008, 07:41 PM
 
I don't give a wet fart about Apple's HCI standard if the outcome just plainly sucks.

Where is the common sense ?

Even on my 24" iMac, it's almost unusable. WTF ?

-t
     
anyrandomthing
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May 29, 2008, 09:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Even on my 24" iMac, it's almost unusable. WTF ?

-t
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing -- the pane looks dominating on this 24" screen, I cant imagine what it would look like on a 13.1" macbook.
     
jokell82
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May 29, 2008, 09:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by anyrandomthing View Post
Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing -- the pane looks dominating on this 24" screen, I cant imagine what it would look like on a 13.1" macbook.
It sucks and I keep it off.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
gr8tfly
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May 30, 2008, 03:00 AM
 
More 2 cents worth & rant:

Using the excuse of interface guidelines is just that - or misinterpretation, which considering DM's Apple experience is hard to believe.

As a "for instance", Aperture used to have tools/data on both sides and bottom (image browser). Version 2 greatly simplified the interface, but the major change was to combine the r/l panes into the single pane on the left side. The method of combining them was by using tabbed views (projects/metadata/adjustments). In addition, the use of HUD windows (the translucent dark shaded ones) is provided for most features as an alternative [to the left hand, side view].

The use of the bottom split window for item info is a misuse of that space. Large amounts of text are harder to read in wide columns (magazine/newspaper layouts are an everyday example). The item artwork isn't scaled to be viewable - only a small portion can be seen without making the split window take up most of the shelf space. Which leads to the most annoying part of this: It takes up browsing real estate. The main point of the program is to provide an easy way to access your collections. I (among others, it seems) really want to have as many rows visible as possible. As pointed out by other posts, even the vertical space available on a 24" display isn't enough to make the info window useable (I'm on a 20" ACD, or 17" MBP, which is 1050 vertical).

Everything else about bringing the interface up to Leopard UI guidelines is very nice, and makes DL more enjoyable to use. But, the info window is all but unusable. I have it off when browsing. I miss the live info DL1 had.

DM: Please, please, listen to your users and re-think this implementation.
( Last edited by gr8tfly; May 30, 2008 at 03:07 AM. Reason: slight reword)
     
illitrate
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May 30, 2008, 06:00 AM
 
to be honest i don't find the info bar at the bottom to be quite the catastrophic tradegy that everyone else seems to make it out to be.
i actually think it works well for the Details and Reviews and Recommendations (i love the Owned stamp graphic!!) tabs - so it's only the Synopsis one that could maybe do with a bit of reworking.

at the moment, i have the info bar off and i double click an item to get more info. it would be nice if there was a quick way to close the infobar again without having to use the 'i' button at the very bottom of the screen or the keyboard shortcuts.

**edit** - sorry, i'm a fool - i just tried hitting the spacebar to see if there was a QuickLook type popup window, and i see that shows and hides the info pane. that's cool (although it would be more like the Finder if it was a pop-up window **edit**

actually - it'd be cool if the info bar could be set to rise up when i click on a title, and then automatically hide itself when i click on nothing.
that way, we'd be the maximum amount of visible titles when browsing, but would be able to see the detail when we find the item we think we're looking for.

i think having the info window off is the best solution and only bringing it up when i want to find extra info - which is not often.
if i had a preference, i'd prefer a pop-up window when i double click on items, but as it is, i can handle the info appearing at the bottom of the screen when i double click on them.

also as already mentioned, the cover art should scale down to fit the available space. allow us to click on it to popup a full-size version (which could remain open and show the full size cover or what else we click on.

as i say, the info at the bottom is not a deal-breaker for me - i just think a few tweaks could make it more intuitive and less intrusive.
( Last edited by illitrate; May 30, 2008 at 06:07 AM. Reason: just found the shortcut to show/hide info pane)
     
turtle777
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May 30, 2008, 10:56 AM
 
I just don't get it.

It took Delicious Monster 1.5 years to NOT find out that a bottom info pane completely vacuums.

What is Wil coding on, a 50" monitor ?

-t
     
Zoe Smith
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May 30, 2008, 12:08 PM
 
Nope, a macbook air, lol - same size as my macbook, and I can't stand that info pane. It's off, all the time. I much prefer the quick look style popup pane that was shown in the early previews.
     
ajmas
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May 30, 2008, 09:20 PM
 
Just adding my vote in this regards. It just feels plain wrong on my MacBook Pro, basically it makes things feel cramped. Two possible alternatives:
- the original location on the right
- a floating inspector style window

As to the issue of human interface guidelines, I feel if it works against usability, then it is a wrong choice. I know iPhoto does this, but it is not using so much real estate for the image previews.
     
withjoy
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May 30, 2008, 10:26 PM
 
My two cents - please change it back or use the floating window. . .or at least give us the option. I can't keep the details up because the collection list is almost unusable. Too cramped on the screen. (MacBook)
     
cchris
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May 30, 2008, 11:08 PM
 
I was a beta tester and this issue did come up. Wil's reply to negative comments was --paraphrasing here-- that a decision was made early on that the vertical layout would no longer be used. Mike Matas wanted the horizontal config, and Wil preferred the pop-up window look (the layout that was featured in all the "First Look" articles on DL2 last year).

For some reason, the pop-up design got axed which left the horizontal.

After reading Wil's comment, I replied:

Wil,

Can you tell us the arguments Mike Matas put forth for having the current arrangement? I assume you agreed with him that the vertical details view was a bad idea, since you opted temporarily for a pop-up menu scheme. What was so impractical/inelegant/wrong with the vertical view?

I strongly prefer the DL1 way because it's what I'm used to and don't see what advantages there are to having the horizontal configuration. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
cchris
Tuesday, April 08, 2008
A few minutes later I posted again:

Oh, I just thought about it some more and realized that arranging the details view vertically wouldn't work on well on an iPhone display.

Delicious Library 2 details leaked: HTML export

I guess when the pop-up menu fell through, all that was left was the horizontal configuration.
cchris
Tuesday, April 08, 2008
I never received a reply and soon after the beta room was closed down for comments. I still don't like the new layout but it's not as bad as many people are saying. DL2 displays a huge preview image of the selected item so you don't have to make the thumbnail images as large as in DL1. When you compare the two, DL2 displays as many items as DL1 did.

I wish DL2 had been held back until the vertical pane configuration could have been reestablished, both because it's a more efficient use of space and would lead to a better user experience, and because Wil's always promoted himself as obsessed about turning out high quality programming. It must be gnawing at him to have released DL2 in its current state.

The way DL2 is now, the best way to use it is with the screen rotated 90 degrees!
( Last edited by cchris; May 31, 2008 at 12:17 AM. )
     
turtle777
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May 31, 2008, 12:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by cchris View Post
The way DL2 is now, the best way to use it is with the screen rotated 90 degrees!
Oh, I totally forgot that I could do that with my iMac

And it works well on my iBook, too.

-t
     
anyrandomthing
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May 31, 2008, 02:03 PM
 
the fact that the earlier versions had some evidence of reason with that sweet pop-up just makes it worse; dl2 could have actually been awesome (interface wise).
     
MDNZ
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Jun 2, 2008, 05:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by -LD View Post
you didn't "contribute" or help in any way. Wil did all the work. Sure, maybe you pointed out a bug, but don't put yourself up on a pedestal and try to take credit for helping with DL.
Nobody was trying to take credit for all the hard work by Wil and the other coders. It is his product and his creation.
You obviously have no idea of the level of effort the combined beta test team provided over many months. Also volunteers spent their time to translate DL into various languages and rigourously test and put through paces (not like the typical just download a free beta from web and place the odd bug). The quirky nature of some of the bugs raised showed the number or permutations and sequences of events people were trying in order to attempt to break it.

From what we recall on this forum Larry, your only 'contribution' to DL was abusive posts and defamation (to which you quickly deleted all posts with concern for legal action from Wil). Since you have now found a product that you like, not sure why you continue to bless us with your presence.


It seems no one likes the info pane where it is. While it may work properly for something like iTunes, it doesn't work for DL with the way the rest of it is designed. That needs to be taken into consideration. You have to see the forest for the trees.
Absolutely agree that the standard does not make sense for this product. Even worse on a 13" macbook.
Would be better if the space bar would provide a pop-up (a la Quick Look) or option to provide on the right hand side. We can only wait for an update to DL to see.
     
k squared
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Jun 2, 2008, 09:24 PM
 
Quick Look really seems like a no brainer.

At first, the bottom info pane disappointed me, but I've realized that it's not so much its location as the huge size of the synopsis icon it shows. There should be a slider to change it's size or it should automatically adjust to space available.

Also, why doesn't DL remember (or allow me the option) of having different views for content? For example, I would like to see Movies as icons and Books in list view. iTunes allows this.
     
 
   
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