[Eug]

I'm surprised, cuz... well... it's braindead.

[icruise]

I agree, but the reasoning is the same as that behind removing the email client, is it not?

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I agree, but the reasoning is the same as that behind removing the email client, is it not?

Which is?

[JMan09]

thanks for that Eug. This is making my decision harder, I was hoping i could enter dates and things on the go like a pda. But I still like the big screen for movies and the wifi.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Which is?

To artificially differentiate two products that could be pretty much identical (iPhone and iPod touch).

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by icruise 

To artificially differentiate two products that could be pretty much identical (iPhone and iPod touch).

I thought they'd be differentiated by the fact that one doesn't have a phone.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Can't say I'm surprised. Not when they left off the email client.

Same here.

To those missing the volume buttons, how about you just get the remote? If I'd be in the market for the touch (which I won't be till it comes with > 32 GB), I'd definitely prefer getting the remote to having to unlock the iPod just to adjust the volume.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I thought they'd be differentiated by the fact that one doesn't have a phone.

That's not enough to get people to spring for the difference. The overwhelming majority of phones over here are free with a contract, or like €10.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Same here.

To those missing the volume buttons, how about you just get the remote? If I'd be in the market for the touch (which I won't be till it comes with > 32 GB), I'd definitely prefer getting the remote to having to unlock the iPod just to adjust the volume.

The remote doesn't work with the iPhone. I'm assuming the same is true of the iPod touch.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by icruise 

The remote doesn't work with the iPhone. I'm assuming the same is true of the iPod touch.

Weird. It's actually mentioned as an accessory for the iPod touch on the iPod touch spec page, but the AppleStore Radio Remote page doesn't mention the touch.

[TiDual]

I've ordered my iPhone Touch, but the lack of Cal editing is starting to annoy me (means I have to lug my Axim or xda neo to meetings ... yuch). Leaving out mail, maps & widgets was bad enough, but this feels just plain petty. I'll mull it over, but am leaning towards cancelling my order. I think this situation is temporary, actually ... Apple's just being careful to differentiate the iPhone for now.

Might also wait to see if the "3G + 16GB iPhone for Europe" rumour is true. I don't really use a phone enough to warrant a 50€ monthly contract though, and am in WiFi range 95% of my day.

[Fred33]

I was going to get one for my wife. We are both tech geeks and our anniversary is coming up.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by analogika 

That's not enough to get people to spring for the difference. The overwhelming majority of phones over here are free with a contract, or like €10.

That's true in the US, too.

I dunno. I think they went 90% of the way by even releasing this thing - I would have guessed that they would have stuck with just the nano and classic updates, and that they wouldn't made this until next year. But since they went this way, even including wifi and safari, I really don't see what purpose it serves to cripple a few minor features. :shrugs:

[dpicardi]

While the lack of a built in email app won't make it as slick as an iPhone. You can still access just about any email account you have via the web.

Not sure why this would be such a turn off for those who are saying this is the main reason for not picking up an iPhone.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I guess I won't be buying either the iPod touch, or the iPhone.

I don't get what you think the Touch is. It is an iPod not an iPhone. It does all that neat song and video stuff you have been drolling for. Heck it even does WiFi internet which is the best thing you can ever get on an iPod.

You had the previous Gen iPod which you paid over $300 for. It had no iCal entry support and you didn't complain.
The new iPod Touch (which is an iPod not an iPhone) doesn't do it now either but why should it and why is that a deal breaker?

Plus you won't always carry it with you like your cellphone so it isn't a good datebook. Your phone you will always have with you.

Either you need to fork over the little bit more cash for an iPhone or you are gonna have to take it.

Not to mention it will be a matter of days before someone hacks it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I don't get what you think the Touch is. It is an iPod not an iPhone. It does all that neat song and video stuff you have been drolling for. Heck it even does WiFi internet which is the best thing you can ever get on an iPod.

Bingo. It's an iPod... with a touch screen, WiFi and Safari internet access, with a qwerty touch keyboard... and you can't even enter calendar events? How lame is that?

You had the previous Gen iPod which you paid over $300 for. It had no iCal entry support and you didn't complain.

I bought my 30 GB video iPod for $209 CAD, which on Sept. 27, 2006 was worth US$187.50. It was a refurb. Heh. Maybe I'll buy a refurb itouch at some point.

The new iPod Touch (which is an iPod not an iPhone) doesn't do it now either but why should it and why is that a deal breaker?

Cuz it is. I didn't really want the iPhone, because it cost too much, and only has 8 GB. At $399 I now think it's fairly priced though. I still don't like the 8 GB part that much though, plus the fact it needs to be hacked (for another $100).

Plus you won't always carry it with you like your cellphone so it isn't a good datebook. Your phone you will always have with you.

Either you need to fork over the little bit more cash for an iPhone or you are gonna have to take it.

That's just it, I don't have to fork over the extra for an iPhone - I don't have to "take it" at this time... so I won't. I'll consider an iPhone when it is 16 GB (and maybe even 3G).

If Apple had given me iCal entry support, I would have paid for the iPod touch now, and then upgraded to an iPhone later. Given the situation now, I'll probably do the iPhone thing later, but will just do without either for the time being. ie. They lost a sale.

Not to mention it will be a matter of days before someone hacks it.

Perfect. Maybe I'll consider the touch once it's hacked, but I see no reason to be the guinea pig.

[scottiB]

Ordered a 16GB on the night of introduction.

[Monstermind]

I am. All I want to do is surf the net on the go. I can live without the "phone" part.

Although I'll be waiting for the first revision. If the iPhone debacle has taught us anything, it's that it doesn't pay to be the first kid on your block to buy high-ticket items...

[icruise]

I'm guessing that the huge early price reduction with the iPhone was an anomaly and that we're not going to see similar things happening with the iPods. They're already at semi-reasonable prices, and to reduce them they would have to reduce the prices of the rest of the product line as well.

[oldboarder]

Hi i'm from the netherlands and goiing to visit Washington d.c. in october. can somebody tell me where i can buy the ipod touch. is there a apple store. please send me the adress or more than 1 adress ?

thanx

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by oldboarder 

Hi i'm from the netherlands and goiing to visit Washington d.c. in october. can somebody tell me where i can buy the ipod touch. is there a apple store. please send me the adress or more than 1 adress ?

thanx

There is not one in DC, proper.

Clarendon, in Arlington, Virginia is close.

http://www.apple.com/retail/clarendo.../20070909.html

[TiDual]

Originally Posted by icruise 

I'm guessing that the huge early price reduction with the iPhone was an anomaly and that we're not going to see similar things happening with the iPods. They're already at semi-reasonable prices, and to reduce them they would have to reduce the prices of the rest of the product line as well.

You're probably right about price ... Apple wants to keep the top 'Pod in this price range. But the next version will have (a) more memory (duh, I know) .. possibly drastically more ... e.g. 160GB version, and (b) more complete software (mail, cal, widgets, etc.). And I think this will come soon (e.g. early Spring). Software apart, a big screen + big disk iPod is clearly just around the bend.

The big problem with the current Touch is that for many of us (well, Eug and I, anyway), is that it is so close to being perfect, but Apple *intentionally* crippled it. There is no technical reason, or cost reason, for leaving out Mail, and a functioning Calendar apps, not to mention widgets.

Note: the webmail solution doesn't let you, e.g., compose a mail, or review your email while sitting on a plane or train. It requires one to be on WiFi (draining battery) while doing these activities, which are better done "off-line". Furthermore, on the small screen it will be tedious. Would be nice if .Mac webmail had a dedicated Touch version, so at least solve the latter problem.

Anyway, no one's saying it isn't still a great product. Most people thought they would omit WiFi entirely (some on these forums insisted they new that for a fact ... heh heh). Mine is still on order ... will mull a little longer whether to cancel or not

[icruise]

Yes, the whole "web app" model for iPhone applications was questionable to begin with (although it does have its uses). However, it really falls apart when you think of the Touch. I think Apple is positioning the Touch as the high-end media player for people who want the ability to occasionally surf the web, while the iPhone is for people who really want to make heavy use of web apps or mobile email. In this sense, the Touch is kind of like the PSP or DS (both of which have limited web browsing capabilities that are very much secondary to their primary uses).

I agree that it's dumb, and ultimately short-sighted.

[tmelcher]

As much as I support the movement to solid state memory, I actually would've considered buying a Touch if it had an iPod Classic-sized hard drive. I know it maxes out at 16 GB, but, as a current iPhone owner, it's not worth it to purchase it for so little extra room.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by tmelcher 

As much as I support the movement to solid state memory, I actually would've considered buying a Touch if it had an iPod Classic-sized hard drive. I know it maxes out at 16 GB, but, as a current iPhone owner, it's not worth it to purchase it for so little extra room.

Same here. If the touch came with a 60 or 80 GB HDD I would have ordered one the moment the AppleStore came back online. But as it is with 16 GB it would be a huge step down from my current video iPod.

On the bright side, we'll get there eventually. At some point large amounts of flash memory will become affordable and then we'll get thin, shock-resistant, and high-capacity iPods. My question is simply how long will that take?

[Chinese_racing_pig]

Originally Posted by TiDual 

he big problem with the current Touch is that for many of us (well, Eug and I, anyway), is that it is so close to being perfect, but Apple *intentionally* crippled it. There is no technical reason, or cost reason, for leaving out Mail, and a functioning Calendar apps, not to mention widgets.

Do you think it would be possible to take those apps from iPhone and put them on the iPod Touch... seeing as how they are almost identical anyways?

[TiDual]

Originally Posted by Chinese_racing_pig 

Do you think it would be possible to take those apps from iPhone and put them on the iPod Touch... seeing as how they are almost identical anyways?

I expect this is possible. The problem is (a) it'll be illegal, since Touch owners won't technically own those apps, so will be stealing them, and (b) there's the hassle, and fear that they stop working after every update. Apple has said it won't go after 3rd party apps, but it may well protect illegal use of its own!

[kermit4161]

I thought that the iTouch would allow entering iCal events... I'm mean, the iCal app is loaded (or the icon is showing). Where does it specifically say it won't allow you to add events? That'd suck. I was looking at the iTouch to be my new PDA.

[icruise]

We don't know for sure that it won't, but the fact that Apple went back and edited the part of the product page that originally said you could add entries and took that line out leads people to believe that it won't allow you to do it.

[kermit4161]

Originally Posted by icruise 

We don't know for sure that it won't, but the fact that Apple went back and edited the part of the product page that originally said you could add entries and took that line out leads people to believe that it won't allow you to do it.

Oh... okay. I guess it is a wait and see proposition then. I can hold my breath until the end of the month. If I could figure out a way to unlock the iPhone to work 'without' a carrier, then I'd go that route. It'd be nice to have all the functionality of the iPhone without the phone (can't get service in my area). But who wants to worry about breaking down everytime Apple updates.

Maybe (please Apple), the iTouch will have enough functionality to be a decent PDA too.

[darkmatter]

Apple may have added WiFi support to the iPod touch mainly because of youTube (and Safari?).

"With Apple’s Safari browser built in, iPod touch is the only iPod that gives you wireless access to the web, everywhere you go. See websites the way they were designed to be seen. Sync your bookmarks or add a few as you go. Search the web using the touchscreen keyboard. Zoom in and out by tapping the multi-touch display"

"iPhone uses a rich HTML email client that fetches your email in the background from most POP3 or IMAP mail services and displays photos and graphics right along with the text."

Apple never suggests the use of iPodtouch WiFi capabilities as writing, downloading or even reading literature (dates, mails, reports, newspapers, journals, chat?, etc) on/from the web. Apple only suggests "See" websites, "Sync and Add" bookmarks, "Search" the web and "Fetch" email

The iPod* is restricted to be a mobile pocket "audible" and "viewable" (seeable?) content/media player leaving the user far away of creating or manipulating the information stored in it. If this is right I think Apple's concept of the iPod is indeed complex and more deep than thought. The iPhone is a bit different and conceived for the user to communicate but still was necessary to increase as restricted as possible the user data input.

I wonder why Apple adopted the neutral position for application development, but that's an other story

Just my .02 cents

[kermit4161]

Originally Posted by darkmatter 

... I wonder why Apple adopted the neutral position for application development...

Apparently they've rethought their stance on that.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/12/a...3rd-party-iph/

[darkmatter]

Originally Posted by kermit4161 

Apparently they've rethought their stance on that.

Apple backtracks, updates will "most likely break" 3rd party iPhone software - Engadget

For one side Apple protects the iPod philosophy and conception and from the other side the quality and reliability of it's products. As I understand, the "good" news is still that it is possible to hack and experiment with the device, just imagine that it remains fully protected.

It would be interesting to know how many of the mega iPhone users have being interested in unlocking the iPhone and how many in adding new software or features, or...

writing Steve Jobs to pay extra $200 for all those software features that some miss

Regards

[theDreamer]

I, currently, do not care to unlock my phone as I am happy with AT&T.
Though I have, twice and removed twice, third party applications and games and what not. While they are nice at first, they do not have that "finished" feel that Apple has created with its own applications. While most of these are beta or first revisions, after getting them all setup on my phone they were pretty lackluster and seemed to be more of a space waster than helpful.

Though some of the games are really nice to have, I just wish I could consolidate them into one icon and then pick from there. All I have found is a launcher app, but it will have ALL programs in the list and even then it is still a bit slow and wishy-washy to use.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by kermit4161 

Apparently they've rethought their stance on that.

Apple backtracks, updates will "most likely break" 3rd party iPhone software - Engadget

I think Apple's is simply covering itself. I'm sure updates will break some of the applications, but the question is... will Apple do this unintentionally or intentionally?

[darkmatter]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I think Apple's is simply covering itself. I'm sure updates will break some of the applications, but the question is... will Apple do this unintentionally or intentionally?

Apple needs to support ($) 3 different devices (nano, Classic, Touch, iPhone) while the hardware platform and designs may be based on the same architecture the software concept may be evolving continuously, the UNIX based iPod family is to the public just 1 week old just as Mac OS X Public Beta nearly 7 years ago

Could the answer be, unintentionally because Apple can't take care of all those unofficial hacks or applications and intentionally to protect the basic concept and design of the iPod?

Will Apple ever create the Multi-Touch or iPod or iPhone software development group?

Best Regards

[bearcatrp]

With linux being put on smart phones, cell phones and pda's, wouldn't surprise me if someone made it work on the new ipod view. I would install it if it would function similar to apples software but able to install apps.

[icruise]

Trust me, Linux on an iPod Touch would be a nightmare to use. The commercial Linux PDAs I've used had terrible interfaces, and that was with a stylus-based OS (which PDA developers should used to handle). I just don't see an independent team working in their spare time even getting in the same ballpark as Apple. You might get your installable apps and lose everything that makes the device worth using in the first place.

[bearcatrp]

From all the web sites I have read in regards to linux going on most cell phones soon, would not need to use a stylus, just input using icons and keyboard like the current cell phones do. Probably wrong but have seen crazier things get developed. I would prefer apple to make the apps though.

[icruise]

I'm not saying you would have to use a stylus, I'm saying that even using a stylus, the user interface was crap, so I can only imagine how bad it would be using your finger, because that is uncharted territory.

[darkmatter]

Originally Posted by bearcatrp 

With linux being put on smart phones, cell phones and pda's, wouldn't surprise me if someone made it work on the new ipod view. I would install it if it would function similar to apples software but able to install apps.

Can't wait to get an iPodtouch or after rethinking a little bit an iPhone

Extra comments:
-An other aspect of Apple's protection concept is on the hardware itself, not even Nike make it to embed some alternative kind of reception into the iPod hardware.

-The iPod is audible, viewable and now also touchable

Best Regards

[analogika]

Originally Posted by icruise 

We don't know for sure that it won't, but the fact that Apple went back and edited the part of the product page that originally said you could add entries and took that line out leads people to believe that it won't allow you to do it.

Plus the lack of a "+" button in calendar view.

[icruise]

I was looking for a screenshot that showed the calendar view the other day. Where did you find one?

[analogika]

Over here, in your very own forum :
http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...or-ipod-touch/

[icruise]

OK, I was only skimming that thread. And it seems to be official, given this statement from apple.

Apple confirms: iPod touch cannot add calendar appointments - Engadget



Interesting that you can edit contacts, though.

[godrifle]

No email & calendar = no iPod-Touch
No Exchange email & calendar = no iPhone

[jaydon34]

I already did

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm actually more upset about the calendar as compared to the lack of Mail.app.

Grrr... so who thinks there will be a hack today for the iPod touch

[jaydon34]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

I'm actually more upset about the calendar as compared to the lack of Mail.app.

Grrr... so who thinks there will be a hack today for the iPod touch

Of course there will be one. I figure its the same OS minus the phone app and a different firmware

[icruise]

Since these threads seem to be treading the same ground, I'm going to close this one and direct further discussion here:

http://forums.macnn.com/103/ipod-iph...5/#post3482658