You guessed it. I am a closed minded punk who wears cargo pants and who smokes weed. During the weekends, however, I am quite a different man. I put on my ice-skating suite and prance around my home watering flowers, watching the "Lifetime" channel, reading Hillary Clinton's books, painting pictures of tullips, putting on makeup, and, most of all, using my ultra-femme artsy iBook.

[Spliffdaddy]

You know you're winning the argument when your opponent starts calling you names - and stops trying to prove you wrong.

Finally someone I can agree with here!

[inkfinger]

You know you're winning the argument when your opponent starts calling you names - and stops trying to prove you wrong.

Or perhaps your opponent simply realises that you are not going to see reason and figures enough is enough?

Inkfinger

Originally posted by <wiggles>:
<STRONG>Finally someone I can agree with here!</STRONG>

You'll be hard pressed to find people that agree with you here, which, YET AGAIN, begs the insistent question, why are you here?

Why not go where the people agree with you? Aren't they any fun? Not "fruitsy" or "artsy" enough?

[zjokke]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

You don't have to create your own computer. Just call a critically acclaimed systems integrator, tell him what your job is...

Apple is the ultimate example of a company that overprices underperforming systems.

P.S. Windows XP, which just came out, is just as fruity as Mac OS X. It has all those glimmering, shimmering, flickering stupid widgets that endear Mac OS X to you Macheads. It has a jewel-like look with lots of alpha transparency. It's just the ticket.</STRONG>

Well, i've chosen 'a critically acclaimed systems integrator' that made my system just the way I like it. They're called Apple. You say they're overpriced, I say I'm willing to pay their price for building this system with that OS...

I've worked on different operating systems (I still do - have to) but the MacOS still brings me the most productivity. When all my tools (Applications) are available for X, I'm almost shure OSX will still give me the most productivity (we'll see). The one thing Macintoshes do is limiting the time you lose because your system isn't transparent and userfriendly enough.

The day I build a render farm, I'll look for the best 'calculator' I can find, but even there I doubt a PC will outrun the Mac. We use an NT server to RIP for our Epson proofers and it isn't that fast at all, still it has the most Mhz of all our computers! And that's not counting the times its giving us error messages and Dr. Watsons. I'm talking about a system that has to run 1 application, with a lot of memory (512 Mb) and HD-space (60Gb), that was sold to us as a kind of Black Box. That's my experience.

If you find someone that builds a system especialy for you, does he build the OS too? I don't think so. My 'system builder' does. So in your case I'd have to run Win2000 or NT or some other 'MacOS-copy' (like you stated yourself: XP). Actually, we're just buying an OS that works for us and we buy the computers that runs it best.

[IFLY2HIGH]

Originally posted by godzappa:
<STRONG>why is it that so many people who believe Macs are terrible value for money and are completely inferior to PC's, hang out in Mac forums?

I never got to windows forums, I like Macs for my own reasons and have no interest in hanging around PC or Windows forums.

Whats the deal guys? I would really like to know what your motivations are</STRONG>

LOL, probbly cause they wish they had a mac and are jelous... I'll never go back to a PC again period. NO WAY!!

[Tristrami]

I'm starting this as a new thread, but just in case anyone else is reading this to the bitter end....

ATTENTION CHEAP BASTARDS:

Here is the iPod you've been waiting for:iPod LC

Enjoy!

[IFLY2HIGH]

Originally posted by Tristrami:
<STRONG>I'm starting this as a new thread, but just in case anyone else is reading this to the bitter end....

ATTENTION CHEAP BASTARDS:

Here is the iPod you've been waiting for:iPod LC

Enjoy! </STRONG>

Superb, Superb...

[Todd Madson]

I saw an ad in the New York Times this week for J and R Music World and
they're selling the iMac lo-end version for $499! It's only 64megs but
J & R has a deal where they'll double your ram if you want for the
price of installation. This is the 400 mhz machine. So for $500 and
change you get a 128 meg 400 mhz iMac with G3.

So, you see it's very possible to get a low-end relatively current Mac
and not pay a fortune.

I'm not a customer or employee of J & R, but it was such a good deal I
can't imagine anyone not seeing this and going "geez."

[Todd Madson]

Quotes from Wiggly":
"I said that, GIVEN THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY, I CAN BUILD A PC THAT IS BETTER THAN A MAC IN EVERY IMAGINABLE WAY.

Everything except the operating system.

"Yes, that includes a better quality case, the best cases in the industry, period. (Inwin, Enermax or Fong Kai)"

What a bunch of hooey. They may be a solid metal or translucent case,
but opening the cases for expansion is about as easy as removing the
clothes of an uptight catholic virgin on prom night.

"That includes a faster CPU, both in megahertz rating and perceived performance. (The newly released Athlon MP CPUs)"

Arguable - Altivec optimized apps trounce standard Windows apps.
My 800 mhz PIII laptop (one of several IBM T21s and T22s I have at
my desk at work) lags severely behind in terms of performance for
say, the RC5 encryption breaking challenge. This particular
laptop generates about 2 million kkeys/second whereas the G4
400 under OS X generates 3.2 million and under OS 9 I've had
it generate 3.5 million. Music apps - no comparison. I'm
a musician who uses tons of tracks. You can't do a giant
track with 50 tracks, soft synths, real time effects unless
you have a maxed out PC and a raid array.

Also, my big question is: how fast does it need to be to read
e-mail, browse the web, and use Microsoft Office, arguably what
the majority of average users use.


"That includes the best sound in the industry, period, including full Dolby Surround Sound, optical in, optical out, and every little gizmo you can think of. (Creative Audigy)"

Creative? That company produces consumer cards. Pro Audio people
(i.e. producers, engineers and musicians) use real audio cards for
music production. Might be good enough for the consumer but not
something a pro would use.

"I cannot imagine a single respect in which a Mac can trump a similarly priced PC built by someone who knows what he is doing."

And there's the rub. The vast majority of end users DON'T know what
they're doing? Don't believe me? I spent 4 years in a tech support
and took 8500 support calls trying to help clueless users and they
DON'T know what they're doing. Even if a clueful person helps the
user in question, they're always on their own after that clueful person
goes back to the office.

And there's the rub. The vast majority of end users DON'T know what
they're doing?

Exactly! In my local Dixons the otherday I overheard someone admit to having difficulty programming their VCR and yet to my amazement the sales assistant STILL cheerfully steered her towards a PC!

Even those who pick up the rudiments of using PC fairly easily, are likely to feel like they've run into a brick wall when Windows reveals it's true colours & starts misbehaving, something which happens all too often I'm afraid.

Unlike the Mac there seems to be no logical aproach to troubleshooting Windows & in most cases when my old PC got seriously messed up I ended up having to do a wipe & restore,which was a marathon task in itself!

Cheers!

Inkfinger

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by &lt;Inkfinger&gt;:
<STRONG>

...when my old PC got seriously messed up I ended up having to do a wipe & restore,which was a marathon task in itself!

Cheers!

Inkfinger</STRONG>

Inserting a CD and pressing 'enter' is a daunting task, isn't it?

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

...when my old PC got seriously messed up I ended up having to do a wipe & restore,which was a marathon task in itself!

------------------------------------------------------------------------


Inserting a CD and pressing 'enter' is a daunting task, isn't it?

If that's all there is to it with Windoze machines these days then they've improved an awfull lot!

With my old "blunderbox" you had to do everything the hard way!
Boot from floppy, tinker around with DOS then sit and watch & wait for the installer to ask for driver disks for modems, soundcards & the like. (And of course there was always the odd one you forgot about & couldn't remember where it was!) Then, the peice de resistance, at least with Win 95, the machine suddenly changed it's mind about what drive letter to assign the CD drive & couldn't find the Windoze disk itself!

Such fun!

Cheers!

Inkfinger

Originally posted by &lt;Inkfinger&gt;:
<STRONG>

If that's all there is to it with Windoze machines these days then they've improved an awfull lot!</STRONG>

Yes, these days, that is all you have to do.

PCs come with restore CDs, which is different from a Windows installation CD. PCs have CD-booting enabled in the BIOS. You put in the restore CD, you reboot your PC, your OS fixes itself right up using the restore CD.

I don't think you can possibly make it easier.

[Spliffdaddy]

wiggles!

you're alive!!

it's REALLY YOU!!!

PCs come with restore CDs, which is different from a Windows installation CD. PCs have CD-booting enabled in the BIOS. You put in the restore CD, you reboot your PC, your OS fixes itself right up using the restore CD.

That's as it should be. (Shame it wasn't thought of sooner!)

Mind you, I know someone who's PC restore CD no longer works! (Perhaps perhaps because he's altered his machines innards, I dunno.)

Cheers!

Inkfinger

[smacintush]

Yes, these days, that is all you have to do.

PCs come with restore CDs, which is different from a Windows installation CD. PCs have CD-booting enabled in the BIOS. You put in the restore CD, you reboot your PC, your OS fixes itself right up using the restore CD.

I don't think you can possibly make it easier.

HEY! My crappy Mac didn't come with a restore CD! Oh yeah, I forgot that in the last 2 and a half years I have not had a need for one.

Those CD's are created out of necessity. Good ol' Wintel is so easy to screw up and difficult to fix that it is easier to just "redo".

Shameful.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by smacintush:
<STRONG>

HEY! My crappy Mac didn't come with a restore CD! Oh yeah, I forgot that in the last 2 and a half years I have not had a need for one.

Those CD's are created out of necessity. Good ol' Wintel is so easy to screw up and difficult to fix that it is easier to just "redo".

Shameful.</STRONG>

I have a Dell Pentium90 (circa 1996) laptop that includes...

floppy 'restore' disks for Win95.


next...

[smacintush]

I have a Dell Pentium90 (circa 1996) laptop that includes...

floppy 'restore' disks for Win95.


next...

Next what? You obviously missed my point.

Originally posted by smacintush:
<STRONG>
I forgot that in the last 2 and a half years I have not had a need for one.

</STRONG>

What happens when you do?

Do you have any idea how you would go about fixing your Mac except shipping it to Apple HQ and paying through the nose?

At least PC users can tend to problems on their own.

[smacintush]

What happens when you do?

Do you have any idea how you would go about fixing your Mac except shipping it to Apple HQ and paying through the nose?

At least PC users can tend to problems on their own.

I have managed to muck my system up a few times. If you actually used a mac at all you might realize how much simpler it is to troubleshoot and fix if problems arise. But you know nothing of macs so I don't really expect you to understand. I just wish you would stop pretending you do.

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>
Do you have any idea how you would go about fixing your Mac except shipping it to Apple HQ and paying through the nose?

At least PC users can tend to problems on their own.</STRONG>

More assumptions and mistatements of fact, wiggles. Most of the people who would bother to reply to your "pedantic" ravings here have the same level of expertise on the Mac that you claim to have on the PC. You seem vexed and in denial of it.

No one here spends much time accusing you of lacking the skills necessary to keep your system humming right along but you insist on constantly accusing others of a complete lack of knowledge. Look in the mirror, friend.

The only person here dead set on not leaving well enough alone and accepting the free will of consumers to embrace their platform of choice is you.

[TazmanDman]

Originally posted by &lt;dm&gt;:
<STRONG>


More assumptions and mistatements of fact, wiggles. Most of the people who would bother to reply to your "pedantic" ravings here have the same level of expertise on the Mac that you claim to have on the PC. You seem vexed and in denial of it.

No one here spends much time accusing you of lacking the skills necessary to keep your system humming right along but you insist on constantly accusing others of a complete lack of knowledge. Look in the mirror, friend.

The only person here dead set on not leaving well enough alone and accepting the free will of consumers to embrace their platform of choice is you.</STRONG>

"...Preach on, brother..." (raises hands up and down with eyes closed waiting for another chance to stand up and say ... "AMEN!"....)


Taz

[Spliffdaddy]

You can't build your own Mac.


That's probably why wiggles and myself doubt that there are many Apple users that have the ability to build a computer.

Also, anyone even remotely interested in leading-edge computer hardware wouldn't be buying a Mac.

not flaming, just showing you a different perspective.

[ 11-04-2001: Message edited by: Spliffdaddy ]

At least PC users can tend to problems on their own.

Oh, Really? Then what are all those expensive telephone helplines doing out there then? You know, the ones that keep you waiting for so long because they are so INUNDATED with cries for help!

SC

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by &lt;Stressed Cedric&gt;:
<STRONG>

Oh, Really? Then what are all those expensive telephone helplines doing out there then? You know, the ones that keep you waiting for so long because they are so INUNDATED with cries for help!

SC</STRONG>

How would you know?

Unless you make a habit of calling helplines.

I've never called anyone for help using Windows.


I suppose Apple doesn't charge for assistance on their 'help line'?

LOL

At least PeeCee users get more than 90 days of service....

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
<STRONG>You can't build your own Mac.

That's probably why wiggles and myself doubt that there are many Apple users that have the ability to build a computer.

Also, anyone even remotely interested in leading-edge computer hardware wouldn't be buying a Mac.
</STRONG>

Spliff-mon,

'tis true that you can't build your own Mac but most Mac users aren't after that kind of experience. I think you have a more rational understanding of this than poor wiggles. Different strokes for different folks, etc.?.

However, to extrapolate that Mac users have no notion of the hows and whys of their systems because they didn't build them from the ground up, well, that's just ludicrous. I personally think most Mac users are less intimidated by their computers and it encourages learning more about them rather than wincing at the prospects of something inexplicable going wrong. I've seen it in my own family members experiences and several of my peers who've migrated to the Mac. That's my experience. The mileage of others may vary.

As for whether anyone even remotely interested in leading-edge computer hardware would buy a Mac, let's not be disingenuous; they wouldn't be buying an off the shelf, garden variety PC either. In addition, the bleeding/leading edge of technology is invariably dull within minutes of its debut so it's pretty pointless to get all lathered up about the "latest and greatest" unless you really have a legitimate use for it, which most people do not, be they PC or Mac users.

How would you know?

Computer magazines , normal newspapers and even the BBC's "Watchdog" program are forever running stories of people with PC troubles & how crap many of the helplines are.
Also I know quite a few people who have had bad experiences with them.

I've never called anyone for help using Windows.

Neither have I (Fortunately)

I suppose Apple doesn't charge for assistance on their 'help line'?

Wouldn't know, haven't had to use it.

At least PeeCee users get more than 90 days of service....

So do Apple users, in this country (UK) at least!

SC

[IFLY2HIGH]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
<STRONG>You can't build your own Mac.


That's probably why wiggles and myself doubt that there are many Apple users that have the ability to build a computer.</STRONG>

LOL, I'm an apple user that built my pc personally before I bought my MAC. From top to bottom, putting the best hardware into the system. I spent 1200$ on it and needless to say, I had it only a year, and sold it to buy a 1700$ MAC. I'm still to this day so happy I did.

Apple Lives On...

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
[QB]You can't build your own Mac.


That's probably why wiggles and myself doubt that there are many Apple users that have the ability to build a computer.

Stop flattering yourself that you're some kind of engineer. You didn't "build" anything and you know it.

Did you "build" the hard drive? The case? The CD-ROM drive? The motherboard? The memory chips? The cables? The power supply? The floppy? Improve on the circuitry of the AGP slot?

Also, anyone even remotely interested in leading-edge computer hardware wouldn't be buying a Mac.

Nah - vector processing RISC chips, IEEE 1394 standard, gigabit ethernet, digital audio, NO FLOPPY, NO PARALLEL PORT, DVD-R, 802.11b aren't leading edge.

[Spliffdaddy]

I am an engineer.

stop flattering yourself.


Want me to list the leading-edge hardware that isn't available on a Mac?

Want me to list the leading-edge hardware that isn't available on a Mac?

Why bother? It'll only be leading edge for a week or two after you post it anyway!


SC

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
<STRONG>I am an engineer.

stop flattering yourself.


Want me to list the leading-edge hardware that isn't available on a Mac?</STRONG>

Freon cooling device?
Fire Extinguisher?

[ihxo]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
<STRONG>

How would you know?

Unless you make a habit of calling helplines.

I've never called anyone for help using Windows.

At least PeeCee users get more than 90 days of service....

</STRONG>

Well yeah if you say so, but I wonder why all my PC friends tends to call me up for help when they got problems with their PC. I guess they got like 24/7 fifty something weeks a year free tech support ....... FROM ME.

btw: I did build my own PC, but I also own a Mac.
if you have no clue what you are talking about, the best thing you can do is shut up. It doesnt take an engineer to build a PC (unless u are literally want to buid/design the CPU/ video card/ network card), I could build my own PC since I was in high school. Maybe YOU need to get a EE or CE degree to build a PC .... who knows.

Originally posted by &lt;stressed cedric&gt;:
<STRONG>

Why bother? It'll only be leading edge for a week or two after you post it anyway!


SC</STRONG>

It won't be available for the Mac for the next 3-4 years, so it will be pretty leading edge for a while.

Which Mac has 5.1 Dolby Surround Sound? A choice of KyroII, Radeon 8500 and GeForce 3 graphics? Support for terabytes of memory? Support for USB, USB 2.0, Firewire all on the same machine?

Ha!

Macs are mediocre, overpriced, copycat toys and we all know it.

Just look at the iPod. iPod itself crashes (see earlier thread) and its Mac client software crashes. What kind of incompetent loser product is this?

[itai195]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>Which Mac has 5.1 Dolby Surround Sound? A choice of KyroII, Radeon 8500 and GeForce 3 graphics? Support for terabytes of memory? Support for USB, USB 2.0, Firewire all on the same machine?</STRONG>

And a home user would need terrabytes of memory because....?

Lets be honest here, nothing but mid-to-high end servers have support for that much memory. And quite frankly if I was buying just such a server (and I have) I wouldn't get a PC or a Mac anyway.

Curious that Macs are toys and so far behind, yet PCs only just barely have firewire thanks mostly to Sony and Creative Labs. And USB 2.0? Are you kidding me?

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: itai195 ]

Originally posted by itai195:
<STRONG>
Curious that Macs are toys and so far behind, yet PCs only just barely have firewire thanks mostly to Sony and Creative Labs. And USB 2.0? Are you kidding me?

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: itai195 ]</STRONG>

A recent issue of PC World has an ad for a company that sells NOTHING BUT Firewire products for PC's.

Firewire cards, Firewire HD's, Firewire enclosures, Firewire CD changers, Firewire everything. A full page ad filled with at least 300 product listings and prices, and doubtless thousands of other kinds of products in stock.

PC's have full support for Firewire, both on the hardware and the software front. Just because Macs take years to adopt technological standards doesn't mean that PCs are as slow as Macs. The PC industry can adopt standards in a matter of weeks. And has, in the case of Firewire.

As for USB 2.0, you can currently buy USB 2.0 PCI cards, USB 2.0 enabled mobos, and USB 2.0 external HD's for the PC. How about Mac?

Ha!

[bseely]

A recent issue of PC World has an ad for a company that sells NOTHING BUT Firewire products for PC's.

you know that those same hd's, enclosers, cd changers, etc will also work on any mac that has firewire, right?

PC's have full support for Firewire, both on the hardware and the software front. Just because Macs take years to adopt technological standards doesn't mean that PCs are as slow as Macs. The PC industry can adopt standards in a matter of weeks. And has, in the case of Firewire.

you are aware that Apple invented firewire, right?

As for USB 2.0, you can currently buy USB 2.0 PCI cards, USB 2.0 enabled mobos, and USB 2.0 external HD's for the PC. How about Mac?

yep, you can get those for the mac, too - a couple companies are selling USB 2.0 boards - and once you've got the board, those same HD's, etc work just the same as in a PC.

what a monkey!

Ha!

[zjokke]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

It won't be available for the Mac for the next 3-4 years, so it will be pretty leading edge for a while.

Which Mac has 5.1 Dolby Surround Sound? A choice of KyroII, Radeon 8500 and GeForce 3 graphics? Support for terabytes of memory? Support for USB, USB 2.0, Firewire all on the same machine?

Ha!

Macs are mediocre, overpriced, copycat toys and we all know it.

Just look at the iPod. iPod itself crashes (see earlier thread) and its Mac client software crashes. What kind of incompetent loser product is this?</STRONG>

Since you'd like to know about everything, this link might update YOUR information (not ours, since I know this for quite a while):
http://www.apple.com/powermac/

Here you can find out about the Geforce 3 compatibility,etc.
All professional equipment for audio and video exist for Mac (the same cards with different drivers, or a Mac equivalent version of the hardware), ever been to the websites of Radeon, Yamaha, Roland,...? Mac's have PCI-slots, isn't that great!

I still haven't found a PC with enough slots to hold 'TeraBytes' of RAM, but already had 1Gb in my old PPC8500 4 years ago. This is still a huge amount that almost nobody can use (except maybe me, and I still do). I don't know anyone who needs more yet (and yes I know a lot of 3D artists, video editors and musicians).

[ihxo]

weird I kinda get the feeling that wiggles and Spliffdaddy are the same person ...

Originally posted by ihxo:
<STRONG>weird I kinda get the feeling that wiggles and Spliffdaddy are the same person ... </STRONG>

Yeah, it's kind of like that chafing feeling of an infant's poop-filled diaper. Wiggles' posts make awesome poop..poop that won't be available on the Mac for YEARS. How humiliating.

Are you aware that The Wiggles are actually an Australian pop band for kindergarten kids?
http://www.thewiggles.com.au/