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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Do you have a plan to cope with High(er) gas prices?

Do you have a plan to cope with High(er) gas prices?
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SirCastor
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May 11, 2008, 02:03 PM
 
My wife and I were talking about this on a walk last night. We own three cars. One is broken-down/doing nothing, one is my Chrysler Cirruss (20-23mpg) and the other is my wife's Neon (25-27mpg).

We're moving in August, and we've already decided that we're going to be getting rid of two cars. But the "When" of the sale is in question. She's got work and school this summer, I've got work, and our schedules don't match up in any real practical way.
So here's our potential plans:
* I can ride my bike to work more often (10 miles each way, it's not too bad, though I'm out of shape.) (this is an option in the summer)
* Taking the bus (this is awkward, the bus schedules don't work well to get to my work)
* After we move, I'm planning on converting a car to electric, which should get at least 50 miles to a charge. The total cost will be around $11,000. Eventually, we hope also to get a Hybrid vehicle and convert that to a plug-in Hybrid. This way we have a vehicle for daily commuting, and one for longer trips.

Do you have a plan for transit? Public? Man-powered? Alternative fuel?
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Lateralus
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May 11, 2008, 02:42 PM
 
I would ride my bike to work if I didn't have to stick to city streets for all of the 11 miles there.
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turtle777
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May 11, 2008, 02:50 PM
 
Drive MORE.

The only way to get the prices down is if the supply goes up.
By driving MORE, I send a signal that we need more supply.

-t
(no, I'm not serious duh !)
     
vmarks
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May 11, 2008, 03:41 PM
 
Will that signal be received properly? Will it be misinterpreted?
     
SpaceMonkey
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May 11, 2008, 03:47 PM
 
Hoard lots of gas --> ??? --> Profit!

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turtle777
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May 11, 2008, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
Will that signal be received properly? Will it be misinterpreted?


I doubt it.

-t
     
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May 11, 2008, 04:55 PM
 
The next car will, in all probability, be a diesel.
     
vmarks
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May 11, 2008, 05:13 PM
 
well here's the question. If it weren't for gas, would you keep 2 cars?

Is one trip a non-hwy, less than 45 miles distance?

Convert the non working to plug in electric.
     
turtle777
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May 11, 2008, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
The next car will, in all probability, be a diesel.
Same for me. I wish diesel in the US was subsidized as it is in Europe.

-t
     
peeb
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May 11, 2008, 05:19 PM
 
How about living closer to where you work, or closer to a convenient public transit line? Telecommute a bit?
     
Sherman Homan
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May 11, 2008, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
The next car will, in all probability, be a diesel.
Diesel is now ~75 cents a gallon more than gas in New England. What is it in the Toronto area?
     
ctt1wbw
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May 11, 2008, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
How about living closer to where you work, or closer to a convenient public transit line? Telecommute a bit?
Sorry, you couldn't pay me to live in Norfolk, Virginia. Not unless you love **** loads of traffic and bad crime in some areas.
     
peeb
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May 11, 2008, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Sorry, you couldn't pay me to live in Norfolk, Virginia. Not unless you love **** loads of traffic and bad crime in some areas.
Then how about telecommuting - obviously you have to have certain types of job, but working from home one day a week would save 20% of your gas costs. Alternatively, a new job?
     
iranfromthezoo
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May 11, 2008, 06:27 PM
 
Be a firefighter. You work one out of every 3 days. You drive to work and home, no where in between. Anywhere else like the grocery store, bank, etc... is in a big red truck that you don't pay for the gas in. (We do use it responsible. btw)
     
turtle777
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May 11, 2008, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
Then how about telecommuting - obviously you have to have certain types of job, but working from home one day a week would save 20% of your gas costs. Alternatively, a new job?
My guess is that dude is in the military (probably Navy). So none of what you propose what work.

-t
     
peeb
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May 11, 2008, 06:59 PM
 
"Alternatively, a new job?'
No, none of it.

As an aside, I always get the feeling in these conversations that the game is to find situations that are absolutely solution resistant. Folks come up with increasingly bizarre rationales for why they absolutely can't do anything except what they are doing right now. It's quite entertaining to watch.
     
MacosNerd
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May 11, 2008, 07:02 PM
 
I'd vote on the biking, you can do that through the late fall and perhaps even into the winter (depending on the section of the country). I see people here in Boston biking in december. As long as there's no snow on the ground you can do it.

Before picking up running, I used to bike 16 to 30 miles a day, 10 miles while maybe a little tough in the beginning, its very do-able and after a couple of weeks you'll be in better shape and doing the 10 miles easy.
     
turtle777
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May 11, 2008, 07:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
"Alternatively, a new job?'
No, none of it.
Peeb, you are a moron.

Do you think he could just walk away from active military duty at any time when he didn't like the commute anymore ?

He would have to finish his tour, no matter what.

-t
     
vmarks
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May 11, 2008, 07:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
"Alternatively, a new job?'
No, none of it.

As an aside, I always get the feeling in these conversations that the game is to find situations that are absolutely solution resistant. Folks come up with increasingly bizarre rationales for why they absolutely can't do anything except what they are doing right now. It's quite entertaining to watch.
Alternatively, there's your solution:

Sell your home, move somewhere else, or throw away your career. Problem solved!

EDIT: now I know what this reminds me of! You're the Mad Hatter at the tea party, shouting "CHANGE PLACES!"
( Last edited by vmarks; May 11, 2008 at 07:45 PM. )
     
peeb
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May 11, 2008, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Peeb, you are a moron.
Nice personal attack.
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Do you think he could just walk away from active military duty at any time when he didn't like the commute anymore ?
Have we established that he is on active military duty, or how long is left on his tour? "Oh, oh, I'm so powerless to change absoultely anything about my life! Oh Oh!"
     
mduell
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May 11, 2008, 09:18 PM
 
Quit your job and go to work in the oil&gas/energy industry.
     
peeb
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May 11, 2008, 09:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
Alternatively, there's your solution:

Sell your home, move somewhere else, or throw away your career. Problem solved!
"Oh, oh, I'm so powerless to change absoultely anything about my life! Oh Oh! There's absolutely nothing I could possibly do! Oh oh!" He says he's moving in August, so moving can't be that much of a nuclear option.
Stop whining and look for solutions instead of trying to prop up increasingly silly excuses about by why people can't do anything.
     
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May 11, 2008, 09:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I wish diesel in the US was subsidized as it is in Europe.
To the best of my knowledge, it isn't. Bio diesel is subsidized, could that explain it?

My wife talked to my mother in law, diesel in Germany now sets you back about $2.27 a liter.
     
peeb
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May 11, 2008, 09:25 PM
 
Remember that it's energy content per dollar, not volume, that you need to compare.
     
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May 11, 2008, 09:27 PM
 
Do the math before you do anything about higher gas prices. Buying a new/smaller car won't pay off for a long time unless prices really go through the roof. Calculate the mileage and costs of keeping them, and then calculate various scenarios. Odds are you won't break even for years, even at $3.50 a gallon.

If you don't need two cars, but need transportation, what about a motorcycle? You can keep the other car for winter, just drop the insurance to comprehensive only during the summer (this works even if you haven't paid it off).

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May 11, 2008, 09:50 PM
 
We saw a sweet little MG out in the country. Easy on the gas, a lovely little car. Unfortunately it's really just a summer runaround, and also the guy selling it was asking for way too much.
     
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May 11, 2008, 10:49 PM
 
I am just glad I drive a little Ford Focus ZX5 that's great on gas. But it doesn't really matter when the prices are still rising
     
vmarks
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May 11, 2008, 10:53 PM
 
That would have had to have been one of the late 90s / early 00s MGs for it to really be easy on gas, yes?

The 60s-70s MGs with the carburetion aren't nearly as economical as their fuel injected counterparts of more recent years - the difference is that the ECU can lean out the mixture where the carb has it static.
     
mduell
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May 11, 2008, 11:53 PM
 
Even a 10mpg improvment saves you what? Less than $700/year at 1000 miles/month.
     
turtle777
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May 12, 2008, 12:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
My wife talked to my mother in law, diesel in Germany now sets you back about $2.27 a liter.
Yes, recently, diesel has caught up with the regular gas prices.

But in the past, diesel was cheaper than gas, due to the lower tax (i.e. subsidy).

-t
     
ctt1wbw
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May 12, 2008, 12:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
Nice personal attack.

Have we established that he is on active military duty, or how long is left on his tour? "Oh, oh, I'm so powerless to change absoultely anything about my life! Oh Oh!"
Yes, I"m active duty Navy. At least until the 20th of June, when I go on my final retirement leave. I retire the 31st of July after 20 long ass years.
     
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May 12, 2008, 01:43 AM
 
Great - so you do, in fact, have a lot of flexibility - congratulations!
     
analogika
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May 12, 2008, 04:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Same for me. I wish diesel in the US was subsidized as it is in Europe.
The advantage is decreasing:

Diesel is currently around €1.40 here, with regular/super at €1.44 a liter.

Seeing as Diesels are taxed so much higher, I'm beginning to reconsider - I'll have to figure in mileage, of course, and kilometers driven.
( Last edited by analogika; May 12, 2008 at 09:46 AM. )
     
ctt1wbw
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May 12, 2008, 05:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by peeb View Post
Great - so you do, in fact, have a lot of flexibility - congratulations!
Thanks. The one thing I'm not going to miss at all is driving the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel in the morning. Go God Almighty, that's one of the biggest bottlenecks I've ever seen. Turtle can tell you. These people here can NOT drive through that thing. They slam on the brakes even though there's no one in front of them. And they ALWAYS break down inside the tunnel. Never anywhere else where they can pull over.
     
Eug
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May 12, 2008, 08:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
The next car will, in all probability, be a diesel.
http://torontogasprices.com/

While the cheapest diesel in Toronto is close to the price of the cheapest gas, that's if you drive across the city to find the cheapest prices. Usually diesel is significantly more costly in Toronto than regular grade gasoline. Diesel is around the price of midgrade (89 octane) gasoline.

BTW, getting diesel fuel in central Toronto can be a major pain in the ass. Most of the gas stations don't have it at all.


Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post
If you don't need two cars, but need transportation, what about a motorcycle? You can keep the other car for winter, just drop the insurance to comprehensive only during the summer (this works even if you haven't paid it off).
Hmmm... There was a news report about this the other day, how a local Harley shop in Toronto and other bike shops were getting record business. To be honest, that doesn't make that much sense to me. Toronto is very motorcycle-unfriendly, but a new one costs $12000-25000... just to save a bit of gas. Not to mention the insurance is often a major cost with these, just to ride it in the summer (in full leathers and helmet, in 30C weather). And you can't even really shop for groceries with a motorbike, unless you don't eat much or get a massive touring bike or something.

And I say this as someone who owned a motorcycle in Toronto at one point.


Originally Posted by vmarks View Post
Convert the non working to plug in electric.
Money pit. Considering the car doesn't work, he might have much more than the actual conversion required to make it work.

For $11000, I'd just buy a new gas car... after selling the others.
( Last edited by Eug; May 12, 2008 at 09:11 AM. )
     
ctt1wbw
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May 12, 2008, 09:07 AM
 
Eug, whereabouts in Toronto are you? My inlaws are in East Garafraxa, know where that is? They're coming down here this week.
     
Mastrap
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May 12, 2008, 09:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
BTW, getting diesel fuel in central Toronto can be a major pain in the ass. Most of the gas stations don't have it at all.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you and me live in two different Torontos.
As far as I can see every single major gas station downtown has at least one diesel pump. You might pull a blank at the 7/11, but that's pretty much it.
     
SirCastor  (op)
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May 12, 2008, 09:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post
Do the math before you do anything about higher gas prices. Buying a new/smaller car won't pay off for a long time unless prices really go through the roof. Calculate the mileage and costs of keeping them, and then calculate various scenarios. Odds are you won't break even for years, even at $3.50 a gallon.

If you don't need two cars, but need transportation, what about a motorcycle? You can keep the other car for winter, just drop the insurance to comprehensive only during the summer (this works even if you haven't paid it off).
I'm personally not interested in a Motorcycle. I just wouldn't feel comfortable riding one.

Part of going for an electric conversion has to do with eliminating my own reliance on the current system. I can generate electricity at home very practically, whereas other fuels are pretty unreasonable. I'd like to be as energy independent as possible.

I could use the bike riding for getting into better shape. I need it.
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Eug
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May 12, 2008, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you and me live in two different Torontos.
As far as I can see every single major gas station downtown has at least one diesel pump. You might pull a blank at the 7/11, but that's pretty much it.
Trust me, look around. You'll quickly find it isn't true. We learned the hard way...

My GF rented a diesel U-Haul moving truck, and we drove around and around and around before we found a gas station that actually had diesel. Shells, Essos, Petro-Cans, you name it, all without diesel. Why? Cuz the demand for it in the central core is much lower.

I'm not saying they don't exist, because they most definitely do. However, the vast majority of the the downtown stations don't have them. They're much more common outside the city core though. That said, my friend had a Jetta TDI and he quickly learned where to go specifically to buy diesel. He just had to plan things more.


Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
Eug, whereabouts in Toronto are you? My inlaws are in East Garafraxa, know where that is? They're coming down here this week.
I now know where East Garafraxa is. Didn't until today.

I used to live in downtown Toronto (ie. 10 minute walk to the CN Tower), but now I live in Scarborough - 25-30 min drive to CN Tower.
     
Shaddim
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May 12, 2008, 11:21 AM
 
Do you have a plan to cope with High(er) gas prices?
Yup, I'm buying a new M3 this week.

Oh, wait, it actually gets worse gas mileage than my old M3.
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greenamp
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May 12, 2008, 11:32 AM
 
Here's my plan:



Get's 50-60mpg.
     
ctt1wbw
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May 12, 2008, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Yup, I'm buying a new M3 this week.

Oh, wait, it actually gets worse gas mileage than my old M3.

If you can keep it under about 65, you should be getting good gas mileage.
     
greenamp
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May 12, 2008, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
http://torontogasprices.com/


Hmmm... There was a news report about this the other day, how a local Harley shop in Toronto and other bike shops were getting record business. To be honest, that doesn't make that much sense to me. Toronto is very motorcycle-unfriendly, but a new one costs $12000-25000... just to save a bit of gas. Not to mention the insurance is often a major cost with these, just to ride it in the summer (in full leathers and helmet, in 30C weather). And you can't even really shop for groceries with a motorbike, unless you don't eat much or get a massive touring bike or something.

And I say this as someone who owned a motorcycle in Toronto at one point.


You can get a used bike for much less than new. And as you can from the picture I posted above, I can carry lots of groceries on my bike. My insurance (full coverage) is cheaper than it is on my car and my former pickup truck of equal value.
( Last edited by greenamp; May 12, 2008 at 11:42 AM. )
     
Mastrap
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May 12, 2008, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp View Post
Here's my plan:



Get's 50-60mpg.
My wife mentioned on the way to work this morning that there were a lot more bikes on the road than during recent years.
     
Shaddim
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May 12, 2008, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by ctt1wbw View Post
If you can keep it under about 65, you should be getting good gas mileage.
I rarely go over 80mph, and usually stay around 70. However, it's how quickly I get to 70 that's an issue. I have a very heavy foot.
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May 12, 2008, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp View Post
You can get a used bike for much less than new. And as you can from the picture I posted above, I can carry lots of groceries on my bike. My insurance (full coverage) is cheaper than it is on my car and my former pickup truck of equal value.
Fair enough, but did you replace your car with your bike, or is the bike in addition to your car?
     
greenamp
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May 12, 2008, 11:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
My wife mentioned on the way to work this morning that there were a lot more bikes on the road than during recent years.
Yeah there are a lot more bikes on the road these days. Motorcycle sales are at an all time high.

I dunno why bikes are never really mentioned seriously when the subject of saving gas arises. I guess people are scared of them? Who knows, at any rate, for a lot of people living in urban settings, a motorcycle or hell even a big scooter would save them thousands a year in gas.

My bike is a 1200cc v-twin (Buell XB12X) and I can still squeeze near 60mpg out of it on the hwy, 50ish in the city, and can beat a 'vette if I want to. You can get smaller engines, like a 250cc or a more common 650cc and get upwards of 80mpg. And scooters get 90-100+. Oh, and you can ride in the HOV (carpool) lanes by federal law (In the US).
     
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May 12, 2008, 11:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Fair enough, but did you replace your car with your bike, or is the bike in addition to your car?
Replaced actually. My wife has a civic, and I had a Tacoma 4x4 that I sold for the funds to purchase my bike. Pretty big savings for my commute, as the Tacoma got about 15mpg in the city and was costing me 10-15 bucks round trip just to go to work and back.

Not feasible for everyone to do something like I did, I know. And having a bike as your primary commute-scoot brings with itself a new set of caveats, mainly weather related. A good set of waterproof gear keeps you dry though. It takes a bit more prep time in the mornings, what with gear, bike warm up and all.

Got some heated hand grips and a heated vest lined up for the winter
( Last edited by greenamp; May 12, 2008 at 12:02 PM. )
     
Eug
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May 12, 2008, 12:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp
I guess people are scared of them?
III - Motorcycle Crashes

Motorcyclists were 35 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die in a crash in 2006, per vehicle mile traveled, and 8 times more likely to be injured,according to NHTSA.


Who knows, at any rate, for a lot of people living in urban settings, a motorcycle or hell even a big scooter would save them thousands a year in gas.
I suppose... if you're talking about an inefficient car vs. a motorcycle, and driving 15000 miles a year or whatever on that bike.

Anyways, in my case, the bike was in addition to my car, and only used for fun. However, I soon discovered that the only times I really liked riding it was when the temp was between 15C and 25C. I was too much of a wimp for colder weather, and too much of a wimp for hotter weather too. The problem is that between 15C and 25C is also my favourite bicycle riding weather too, for fun and exercise.
( Last edited by Eug; May 12, 2008 at 12:13 PM. )
     
greenamp
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May 12, 2008, 12:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
III - Motorcycle Crashes

Motorcyclists were 35 times more likely than passenger car occupants to die in a crash in 2006, per vehicle mile traveled, and 8 times more likely to be injured,according to NHTSA.



I suppose... if you're talking about an inefficient car vs. a motorcycle, and driving 20000 miles a year or whatever on that bike.
Well it's a no brainer that you are way more likely to get hurt on a bike in an accident than in a car. I actually think the percentages for injury are higher, but that's just me. For instance, if a bike gets rear ended at a stop he is screwed, even if it's just a tap. That's why I pretty much sit at a stop light ready to bail and run if I see a soccer mom on a cell phone hurling her SUV towards me without no signs of noticing my flashing brake light.

Proper training (MSF rider course) and evaluative driving habits go a long way towards safer riding. A lot of motorcycle crashes involve riders who were not trained, were not wearing proper gear, and a lot of times were under the influence of alcohol.

As far as gas, the savings will be different per situation (and not all bikes get good mileage) , but if you figure an annual cost of 2500-3000 a year in gas for an auto that gets 25mpg, switching to a vehicle that gets 50mpg would cut that roughly in half.

But yeah, bicycles are certainly the way to go if you have a short commute. You can even get bike racks for your motorcycle these days ( I sh*t you not).
( Last edited by greenamp; May 12, 2008 at 12:28 PM. )
     
 
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