[mduell]

I'm surprised to see a single FW400 port instead of a single FW800 port. The Intel chipsets don't support any FW port, so they have to include another chip anyway.

I'm disappointed not to see e.SATA or 4 USB ports.

I'm happy about the graphics card, but it's too bad they're still using the same low res screens (give me HD, everyone else has it!).

Integrated iSight is going to hurt business sales.

Why on earth is the Apple Remote IR? It shoudl be BT so it doesn't rely on LoS.

ExpressCard is going to be painful for some people, but ultimately the way to go. The choice of /34 instead of /54 on a larger laptop is lame.

[tipaintchip]

Just what would have been wrong with "[FONT="Garamond"]PowerBook Core™Duo[/FONT]"?
It would have told us what it is and what processor is being used just like every Powerbook has for years.
A $2,000 for a laptop and I have to buy a $49 modem to carry around, then take up one of my usb ports on top of that.
No S video out, briliant move.
I suppose that the thing wont power an external USB hard drive like my current 1.67 Powerbook.

[templetalker]

Originally Posted by ort888

Am I the only person who really dislikes the styling of these newer Apple laptops? I didn't like it before when they were G4s and I still don't like it. Something about the keyboard/speaker placement and color really throw me off. It just looks cheap.

Totally agreed upon this matter. What much more can I say but this "look" that Apple created is now on every other electronic device on planet it. Its time to innovate to a new look and design.
Even if they use aluminum, surly it comes in darker tones or lighter ones? Ahhh make the darn thing less regular! Pro's aren't about conventionalism!

[crouchingtiger]

I think all of these comments are spot on. Especially because the FW800-FW400 adapter plugs apparently work well.

Hopefully EC34 will end up being the single most widely used standard. It makes some sense to standardize on the smaller one considering the trend toward smaller devices.

Apple has been pretty good overall over the years on responding to user feedback so I'm sure by the time the MacBook Pro 3.0 rolls around everything will be just dandy.

Originally Posted by mduell

I'm surprised to see a single FW400 port instead of a single FW800 port. The Intel chipsets don't support any FW port, so they have to include another chip anyway.

I'm disappointed not to see e.SATA or 4 USB ports.

I'm happy about the graphics card, but it's too bad they're still using the same low res screens (give me HD, everyone else has it!).

Integrated iSight is going to hurt business sales.

Why on earth is the Apple Remote IR? It shoudl be BT so it doesn't rely on LoS.

ExpressCard is going to be painful for some people, but ultimately the way to go. The choice of /34 instead of /54 on a larger laptop is lame.

[giggs11]

Originally Posted by mrmister

Unnecessary, unless they automagically are going to have these ports reappear when they start shipping. It's this kind of ridiculous apologism that rankles--what, we can't complain about features that are obviously removed? The answer is: you can complain, but only once the product ships. WTF? We *know* what's missing--the specs are published. You don't see me commenting on the battery life--we don't have enough data on that yet.

And this is the thread for malcontents to complain about what a terrible travesty that is for all of mankind, we get it. Should the moderators allow you ten more threads to complain about the same thing?

Originally Posted by mrmister

Substitute "market studies" and "cost-cutting" for "research" and you might have something

You do realize that research covers economic studies as well, right? I thought that market research was implied, but I suppose you need it spelled out better. Apple actually needs to, y'know, make money. Unless you have some kind of actual evidence that Apple solely considered cost-cutting when taking away the modem and FW800 ports, you don't have much of an argument here.

Originally Posted by mrmister

Wake me up if they start offering an Intel chip with respectable speeds in a PowerBook chassis that has the features they've left out, and then I'll get excited.

That's called a tradeoff. More speed and fewer features, or less speed and more features. It's something that every other laptop on the market has to deal with. Issues with heat and CPU load are bound to come up, especially since Apple decided to make the casing smaller.

Originally Posted by mrmister

I mean, come on--I just want at least one more USB port. Isn't that a position most people can get behind?

I couldn't care less, despite the fact that I do photo and video editing with mine and travel quite a bit with it. And I'm guessing Apple figured out there are way more people who feel the way I do than feel the way you do.

[hldan]

I was at Macworld and this machine (Macbook Pro) is really nice. The screen is incredibly bright (finally). It's amazing that so many people tend to trash anything new that Apple makes and trash the company for being the first to introduce something new (Express Card Slot) that we know PC's are gonna have later on just as the modem being omitted, PC companies are gonna do away with that too. Then everyone will complain that the PC companies are copying Apple.

What's even more amazing is that nobody gives praise to Apple for finally including things that most people have complained for the Powerbook not having and wishing it did. Speed has been the main concern for so long, this was handled very well with the core duo processor.
Graphics cards have been a main complaint on every Mac machine, now this was addressed quite well with the ATI X1600 with 256MB ram.
Screen brightness has been awful on the all Apple notebooks, and since I was at Macworld I can tell you that this machine was as bright as my Cinema Display.
Many people have tried to bootleg Front Row, it's obvious Apple is including it on all forthcoming Macs and this machine comes with a remote and an I.R. window for many uses.
The top model comes with a 1GB ram stick. Most high end PC's ship with (2) 512 sticks.

Where is the praise for everything that's been asked for and granted?
Get real if most of you actually used the FW800 slot and at full potential. I would bet good money if more than 10% of this forum still uses the dial up modem 100% of the time.

This is a Rev A machine and it's pretty darn great no matter which model you get.

[templetalker]

Originally Posted by chrisutley

This is the best post EVER. What an insane perspective on the introduction of a well equipped, much faster Mac laptop.

Reminds of the day Apple introduced the iPod. This forum was flooded with posts about how nobody out there wanted a $500 music player. The self-procalimed Mac elite wrote long winded posts about how Apple was losing their focus, etc..

What drama ... The Mac community use to be cool. Now I'm often ashamed to be a part of it, because of garbage like this...

Drama? This is theater. I'm ashamed by your lack of creative interpretation. Hmmm...sarcasm? You can't really sense intonation in computer world can you syntaxian? I show no penitence!

[Scooterboy]

Apple is moving away from logicboard design and will rely on production Intel motherboards from now on. So it's up to Intel as to what I/O technologies Apple can use. Sad, but it's an Intel world for Apple now. This is the price paid for the faster x86 processors. Some feel the compromise is worth it, others don't. But just because you or other consumers don't use FW800 doesn't mean that others have no need of it. My FW 800 drive that I use every day is twice as fast used with my PowerBook G4 than with a MacBook Pro. I have used the modem as I travel places without WiFi or ethernet. My backpack is already filled with miniplug to RCA adapters, DVI to VGA adapter, cables and the other peripherals I have to carry with me. A modem will be one more peripheral that I'll have to buy and carry that I don't have to with my PowerBook.

When the MacBook comes with large fries, soda, and desert, then I'll consider buying.

My grade for the new MacBook is C (A- for the processor performance but D for the lost features and a coorespondingly less elegant user experience). The MHz Myth is over and Apples new Pro laptops are slower than the PC competition, despite the change to Intel. I'll sit this one out and wait for revision 2 or 3, and see if Apple can get parity of CPU speed with its competitors who are using the very same hardware platform and motherboards as Apple while maintaining the elegance and features of the PowerBook.

I think Apple is dropping the Power nomenclature because they are focusing more on consumers. They are now Apple's core market, allowing for more profit as Apple abandons it's old core of Power users who complain much and upgrade infrequently. Apple is morphing into a comsumer electronics and software company. I don't think it will be much longer until Apple releases OS X for the entire x86 world. Huge profits are to be had, and consumers and pros alike will have more choice in hardware, which will not be a bad thing.

[Scooterboy]

As for a remote, my Sony Ericsson bluetooth phone works quite nicely and I don't have to be in line of sight to use it so Front Row to me is just a gimmick.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

As for a remote, my Sony Ericsson bluetooth phone works quite nicely and I don't have to be in line of sight to use it so Front Row to me is just a gimmick.

How does that make FrontRow a gimmick? Or are you confusing the Apple Remote with FrontRow (the software that allows you to access your Mac's media via the remote)?

[Scooterboy]

the MacBook Pro was definitely significantly faster than my 1.5 GHz AlBook.

But it isn't significantly faster than the PC laptops using the same hardware. It's slower. They should be at least as fast, but I'd wager that Dell, et al have more leverage with Intel than has Apple. There is a verifiable, objective CPU MHz speed difference, and the McBook is slower than Dell, Acer, Asus, and no doubt others.

I'd have been more happy had Apple put the Intel motherboards in the current PowerBooks, and kept all the ports and Dual Layer dvd burner. The McBook's screen bezel with the iSight is lopsided and top heavy. An aesthetic quibble, I grant you, but aren't design aesthetics paramount in a PowerBook? I'd rather they offer the screens with the built in iSight as a BTO option, though I suppose few would have added the iSight if there was a choice.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

But it isn't significantly faster than the PC laptops using the same hardware. It's slower.

What are you basing this on?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by tipaintchip

Just what would have been wrong with "[FONT="Garamond"]PowerBook Core™Duo[/FONT]"?
It would have told us what it is and what processor is being used just like every Powerbook has for years.

Too long and it doesn't contain the phrase "Mac".

Originally Posted by tipaintchip

I suppose that the thing wont power an external USB hard drive like my current 1.67 Powerbook.

Why wouldn't it? Intel is a huge backer of USB, I have no reason to think that they wouldn't support the maximum power for USB ports (2.5W).

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

Apple is moving away from logicboard design and will rely on production Intel motherboards from now on. So it's up to Intel as to what I/O technologies Apple can use. Sad, but it's an Intel world for Apple now. This is the price paid for the faster x86 processors. Some feel the compromise is worth it, others don't. But just because you or other consumers don't use FW800 doesn't mean that others have no need of it. My FW 800 drive that I use every day is twice as fast used with my PowerBook G4 than with a MacBook Pro. I have used the modem as I travel places without WiFi or ethernet. My backpack is already filled with miniplug to RCA adapters, DVI to VGA adapter, cables and the other peripherals I have to carry with me. A modem will be one more peripheral that I'll have to buy and carry that I don't have to with my PowerBook.

When the MacBook comes with large fries, soda, and desert, then I'll consider buying.

My grade for the new MacBook is C (A- for the processor performance but D for the lost features and a coorespondingly less elegant user experience). The MHz Myth is over and Apples new Pro laptops are slower than the PC competition, despite the change to Intel. I'll sit this one out and wait for revision 2 or 3, and see if Apple can get parity of CPU speed with its competitors who are using the very same hardware platform and motherboards as Apple while maintaining the elegance and features of the PowerBook.

I think Apple is dropping the Power nomenclature because they are focusing more on consumers. They are now Apple's core market, allowing for more profit as Apple abandons it's old core of Power users who complain much and upgrade infrequently. Apple is morphing into a comsumer electronics and software company. I don't think it will be much longer until Apple releases OS X for the entire x86 world. Huge profits are to be had, and consumers and pros alike will have more choice in hardware, which will not be a bad thing.

As far as I know there are no "standard" laptop boards as their are retail desktop boards. I don't see why Apple couldn't get any port they desired (FW800, EC/54, RJ11), although it may have delayed release.

Great, who has X1600 (or equivalent) or FW800 with any dual core CPU in a 1"/5.6 lb laptop?

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

But it isn't significantly faster than the PC laptops using the same hardware. It's slower. They should be at least as fast, but I'd wager that Dell, et al have more leverage with Intel than has Apple. There is a verifiable, objective CPU MHz speed difference, and the McBook is slower than Dell, Acer, Asus, and no doubt others.

Dell offers another 167Mhz in laptops that are 60% thicker and 2 pounds heavier. Apple has a strong focus on thinner and lighter performance laptops.

[shabbasuraj]

IR remote sux.

BT all the way baby.

http://www.salling.com/Clicker/mac/


MacCrap Blows.

[Scooterboy]

Originally Posted by Icruise

How does that make FrontRow a gimmick? Or are you confusing the Apple Remote with FrontRow (the software that allows you to access your Mac's media via the remote)?

Because I don't need the Front Row software to access my media with my bluetooth phone. Salling Clicker can access and control my Mac's media and more. My phone works as a bluetooth remote for: iTunes, Keynote, PowerPoint, DVD Player, SlimServer, EyeTV, AlchemyTV DVR, VLC, QuickTime Player, Mail.app, and iPhoto. It also can control system funtions like Sleep, sound balance, and system volume. I can use the pointer on my phone as a remote mouse.

So Front Row and the Apple Remote are a gimmick for me and they have fewer uses than Salling Clicker. I like that I can control iTunes from any room in the house, like if I'm in the kitchen and I want to switch songs or lower the volume. I can even browse and search my Mac media on my phone's display. With the Apple Remote, I'd have to go downstairs and get in front of my PowerBook. And I'm less likely to lose my phone which is always with me than yet another remote to add to the others in the house.

[Scooterboy]

There are thin (though not 1") Centrino Duos with nVidia 7800 mobile GPU's, some with 512 MB RAM. So while I'm glad Apple is using a current high performance GPU, so are PC's. My PowerBook is thin enough, and has room for a Dual Layer drive. Want to back-up your DVD's? You need a dual layer burner or your backup DVD will be compressed and blurry. Need more than 4.6 GB of space on an inexpensive disposable medium? Dual layer DVD.

If Apple could have added FW800, then why not? Might Intel be pressuring Apple to use their slower FW400 and be pushing Apple to push USB? That is a valid question, I think. As stated before, a single FW800 port with an included adapter would have been better than only FW400.

These McBooks are consumer Macs. They lack the I/O of a professional machine. They'll be great for playing games, once native Intel Mac Games are available, or if Windows really will run. But the McBooks need better I/O to really be considered "pro". I'm not even a pro user but I use FW800 daily, whenever my PowerBook is home.

[Lancer409]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

MacBook Pro? They couldn't have picked a better name?

I think "Powerbook Core Duo" would have made for a fine name .. MacBook Pro ... doesnt sound very professional does it?

Oh well, I could care less... I just want to know what's up with windows. I need a XP capable laptop to use winforms and the MLS (Multiple Listing Service, a site that lists homes for sale, as well as tax records and such ...)

If I dont hear about it soon ... I'll have to jump ship and buy a XP laptop... I'll have to sell my powerbook no matter what, since I just purchased a car and paid all sorts of expenses. I just wanted to replace it with a MacBook Pro that could deal with windows programs/websites...

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

Because I don't need the Front Row software to access my media with my bluetooth phone.

I have Salling Clicker too, and it's great software, but the problem with it IMHO is that it requires too much preparation to use. On my phone, it means having the phone on (obviously), selecting several menu items, and then using the phone's crappy joystick to make selections. It can work well if you know you will need to use the remote ahead of time (like for a presentation) but it's not a very good solution for controlling iTunes or the DVD player on a regular basis. I also have a Griffin Airclick USB remote that is pretty nice, but you have to select which program to use it with ahead of time on the computer and it doesn't give you any way to change that using only the remote.

The Apple Remote is good in that it is simple and easy to use. You can just pick it up at any time and use it, and FrontRow gives you a large on-screen interface so you can see what you're controlling from across the room. Bluetooth would have been cooler, but it would probably also mean that you'd have to recharge your remote pretty often. Maybe an RF remote like the AirClick would've been a better choice.

I'll admit that in terms of functionality FrontRow is a little gimmicky at the moment, but I think it shows a lot of promise. It seems like they are going to be including remotes with all Macs now, which means that we will likely see a lot more things that make use of it.

[inkhead]

faxes abroad? What kinda idiot sends faxes over international telephone lines when you can use efax or j2 fax... for the same price everywhere in the world.

Originally Posted by t_hah

What is the big deal about the modem? Most users really don't need a modem. If you need one, buy the external modem for it.

I have not used a modem for years and I travelled all around the World, well kind of. I never had to use a modem in the US, and not in Europe. I am glad that I don't have to pay for it.

[Gee4orce]

Originally Posted by crouchingtiger

I spent a few hours at Macworld Expo this afternoon and here are my impressions of the MacBook Pro and the new iMac:

...

Anyway, I'll probably drop by one more time this week so if anyone has anyone questions that they'd like looked into, feel free to post in this thread...

I don't have any more questions - I think you answered them. I just wanted to say THANK YOU - at last someone posting some INFORMATION from FIRST HAND experience.

And for all those modem-whiners in the crowd: tell me, how do you plug in your modem to the phone line ? Surely you have to carry a cable, and maybe international adapters ? Well, the Apple modem aint much bigger than what you're carrying anyway. Just leave it connected to the phone like cable, and you won't forget it, will you ? Sheesh !

[Troll]

A propos people not wanting to carry around a USB problem, can't you already get an ExpressCard modem?

[Simon]

Overall: The new Mac Book Pro looks pretty good. I'm getting a 1.83GHz model, with the 7200rpm HD myself. Just for fun.

Once again, there is much too much angry complaining here.

• FireWire800: I guess that pretty much says FW dev is over. FW400 will stick around for digital video cameras, but that's it. USB2 it is. A shame, but it's Apple's own fault. They tried to treat is as some special pro feature instead of dropping it in every Mac as a replacement for FW400. There were dongles after all. Tough luck for them. Intel certainly won that one.

• DL SuperDrive: I don't mind. Mine only burns Apple media at 8x, all others get burned at lower speeds; it's really a POS. As far as I'm concerned I'd rather have a 4x burner that really burns all 4x media at 4x than some funky 8x burner that burns extremely expensive DL disks nobody uses, but not standard 8x media at 8x.

• Screen Resolution: It's now true 16:10 as all the ACDs instead of the old 3:2 of the TiBook. Consistency is nice. I prefer it the way it is now.

• Modem: It's rather courageous to dump it on a portable, but for those that really need it there's the dongle. I think it's fine to get rid of it. I hate dial-up and I I'd like to see it die as soon as possible.

• Mobility Radeon X1600, 256MB VRAM: Very cool. Awesome VRAM, very nice GPU. I wouldn't have expected that from Apple. Especially on the iMac, that should shut up the gamer bitching (for a while at least).

• Battery: I noticed that the battery is 60Wh vs. the 50Wh it used to be on the 15". So either power consumption has increased or they wanted to get more battery life. I sure as hell hope its the latter. If power consumption increased by no more than 20% the additional battery capacity could make up for it, but we'd still have to deal with the excessive heat.

• External SATA: It's missing. There should be something superior to USB2/FW400 to attach external storage.

• S-Video/Composite: Will probably be possible with the DVI dongle for the Power Mac and Mac mini, but Apple never mentions compatibility with the Mac Book Pro. Weird.

• The name: Poeple, what's the fuss about? Who cares what the name is. Nobody liked iTunes either, everybody wanted iMusic. Now we all use iTunes, nobody complains and we've just gotten used to it. No big deal. I just don't understand why they didn't use Mac Book instead of MacBook. Just like Power Mac. This isn't McDonalds after all.

• MagSafe: What's the deal? I never had problems with the old system - even when I tripped over the wire myself it just yanked the cord out and that was it. I have no idea why Apple felt the need to reinvent it. Maybe they had lots of repair cases. Whatever. In my case it just means I get to shell out an additional $100 for a new charger to replace the no longer compatible spare I had up to now (I have two chargers, one at home and one at the lab where I work - I hate crawling under the desk for a charger)

• Fan noise: I'd be very interested in hearing what these Books sound like. And I sure hope they don't get any hotter than the G4. Especially now that the case is even thinner.

• Design: I'm actually glad they didn't change the design much. I love the Al design, The Ti was fragile and looked just ok. The Pismo was bulky and, well, plastic. The dimensions did change however, apart from being thinner, it's become slightly wider and they reduced the depth slightly. I think I would have preferred the other way around since it's already rather wide. The lock is still at the wrong location as others have pointed out. I hope they will eventually fix that.

And BTW, my pre-MWSF prediction pretty much nailed this one.

[Gee4orce]

Originally Posted by Simon

Overall: The new Mac Book Pro looks pretty good. I'm getting a 1.83GHz model, with the 7200rpm HD myself. Just for fun.

....

And BTW, my pre-MWSF prediction pretty much nailed this one.

Agree 100% - I also have a spare adapter, so I'll have to buy another one. Glad they retained the multicolour LED though.

I opted for the 1.8 GHz as well - though I stayed with the standard drive as I thought a 7200 will just be hotter and more power hungy, and I probably wouldn't notice the difference. YMMV.

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by hldan

Where is the praise for everything that's been asked for and granted?
Get real if most of you actually used the FW800 slot and at full potential. I would bet good money if more than 10% of this forum still uses the dial up modem 100% of the time.

This is a Rev A machine and it's pretty darn great no matter which model you get.

[Trygve]

In the last 3 years. Every hotel or motel I have visited has had either wifi or ethernet. I've never used a modem in the last 5 years I don't think.

Obviously you have not traveled much outside the developed world with your PB (N. America, W. Europe, Japan, HK, Singapore, Aus, NZ, etc.). I can get used to having to carry a doodad modem, but am not happy with it... my modem has been used countless times from all over the Third World.

The loss of FW800 is a much more serious issue tho. It stopped me from ordering one today.

[Mithras]

In South America, Central America, and Eastern Europe, I have used:
* Wifi
* Ethernet at internet cafes
* Bluetooth GSM cellphone

and never a landline modem. Just point of information.

[Trygve]

In the big cities I can see this... When I lived in Tbilisi, Republic of Georgia for 6 months, dialup was the only option (24kbs). In the past couple years I have had to use dialup from an apartment in Mauritius, hotel in central Sri Lanka and others. Sure I have used Wifi and Ethernet too, but many parts of the world are still on old dialup lines. Thus I *have* to now carry a doodad to stay connected... expect I am not buying one of these until the lost features come back on future models.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

Glad they retained the multicolour LED though.

I'm kind of PO'ed about the multicolor LED thingy. Have always been actually. The indicator on the plug is a great idea but...

I'm color blind just like one out of every 15 males. I can't see any difference between the orange and green LED state. Since Apple should be all about usability, I was hoping they'd eventually chose something like red vs. blue or blinking vs. glowing or pulsing or whatever, but certainly not chose a color combination that many people just can't distinguish.

You'd figure Apple would have thought about the problem in all these years.

[And BTW, the iPod shuffle has the exact same flaw]

[cjno]

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

Agree 100% - I also have a spare adapter, so I'll have to buy another one. Glad they retained the multicolour LED though.

I opted for the 1.8 GHz as well - though I stayed with the standard drive as I thought a 7200 will just be hotter and more power hungy, and I probably wouldn't notice the difference. YMMV.

I ordered my 1.83 - 2Ghz - 100Gb/7200 MacBook. 7200rpm is far better than 5400rpm. Personaly, I swapped my 4200rpm HDD for a 7200rpm one on my Alu 1.33. Aperture runs flowlessly on this configuration, and autonomy is 2:30 - 3 hours with my one year old battery (full brightness, JBuilder, ...)

[GreenwoodMO]

In our household we currently have a Mac Mini, eMac G4, 12" PB G4, 17" PB G4, and a Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5 and I have never used the modem with any of them. I have also never used the firewire 800 on the Powermac or the 17" PB.

If I don't have ethernet or wifi then I usually connect my PB via bluetooth to my Treo 650 for internet connectivity. If I don't have one of the three then I do without.

Anyone interested in a PowerMac dual 2GHz with 1.5GB of RAM and/or a 23" Apple Cinema display(clear/white model)? I need to offload a few toys to help finance the Macbook and the 30" Cinema display I just ordered.

[awarenessengine]

The reason they dropped the word Power from the laptop name is because it was from the Power PC days and they'll likely move all their laptops to the Macbook line, hence the Pro, much like their Pro app's. So, sometime this year there will be on iBooks, just a range of 5 or 6 Macbooks, i.e. 3 standard ones and 3 Pro models.

[Luisc]

I think that the new MacBook is great: fast, bright screen. awesome graphic card.

Why include modem....Is like if Apple icluded floppy drives....I think that the express card will replace FW800

[Luisc]

I think that the new MacBook is great: fast, bright screen. awesome graphic card.

Why include modem....Is like if Apple icluded floppy drives....I think that the express card will replace FW800

[ClassicMac]

If Windows Vista is the only version that will boot with EFI how come Gateway has already shipped a machine that uses EFI running Windows Media Center last November? I am guessing Windows Vista will take advantage of additional features provided by EFI.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/chi...9118819,00.htm

Originally Posted by uicandrew

As of right now, win XP can not be installed because pcs have bios, but probook has efi (the next generation). windows vista supports the efi. (isn't it funny that i'm looking forward to vista?)

there is also a full thread about it in this forum. it is one of the only few new threads that hasn't been shut down/locked.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by awarenessengine

The reason they dropped the word Power from the laptop name is because it was from the Power PC days and they'll likely move all their laptops to the Macbook line, hence the Pro, much like their Pro app's. So, sometime this year there will be on iBooks, just a range of 5 or 6 Macbooks, i.e. 3 standard ones and 3 Pro models.

The "Powerbook" name predated the PowerPC by a couple of years.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Simon

I'm kind of PO'ed about the multicolor LED thingy. Have always been actually. The indicator on the plug is a great idea but...

I'm color blind just like one out of every 15 males. I can't see any difference between the orange and green LED state. Since Apple should be all about usability, I was hoping they'd eventually chose something like red vs. blue or blinking vs. glowing or pulsing or whatever, but certainly not chose a color combination that many people just can't distinguish.

While I see your point - FLASHING!?

Good grief, no! I do NOT want a little plug on the side of my ProBook blinking away for three hours every time I plug it in.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

This MacBlow's...

...the G4 books clean out of the water.

True.

oh, and apostrophe police!

[Daniel Bayer]

I got on the order one band wagon, but now, the more I think about it, this is just not the show stopper I was expecting in terms of how well Apple can do that.

Then I friend emails me this 1 minute ago.........

http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/cultofm...try_id=1385976

Might call and cancel today, soemthing is up....

[JKT]

Originally Posted by analogika

While I see your point - FLASHING!?

Good grief, no! I do NOT want a little plug on the side of my ProBook blinking away for three hours every time I plug it in.

It could pulsate gently (like the sleep light) and unobtrusively instead, though.

FWIW, a review of the Acer TravelMate 8204wlm as a point of reference for people as to what is available on the top end of the PC range.

British pricing: Acer=£1 761, top end MacBookPro = £1 779.00

If it were a purely hardware comparison, it isn't at all pretty for Apple:

Faster CPU, 1GB more RAM, larger hard drive, more ports than you could possibly imagine needing, higher resolution screen (actual usability without going blind, not withstanding), card reader, both a PC card slot AND the new express slot, etc, etc.

But hey, it still runs only Windows, so that's all OK?!

If anyone was hoping that the switch to Intel would bring about a change in pricing philosophy at Apple, prepare to be bitterly disappointed...

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally Posted by Trygve

The loss of FW800 is a much more serious issue tho. It stopped me from ordering one today.

Lack of FW800 is a serious drawback for pros*. I highly recommend leaving feedback at Apple's website if you're concerned.

*No need to hear more amateurs or enthusiasts explain how they don't use Firewire.

[icruise]

I would be very surprised if there wasn't an ExpressCard/34 Firewire 800 card released in the near future. Like the modem issue, the question is whether having to use a dongle of some sort is enough of an inconvenience to make people not want to buy the machine at all.

[ism]

Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock

Lack of FW800 is a serious drawback for pros*.

Personally, I'd say lack of software was the biggest one at the moment

[icruise]

Originally Posted by JKT

FWIW, a review of the Acer TravelMate 8204wlm as a point of reference for people as to what is available on the top end of the PC range.

British pricing: Acer=£1 761, top end MacBookPro = £1 779.00

If it were a purely hardware comparison, it isn't at all pretty for Apple:

Faster CPU, 1GB more RAM, larger hard drive, more ports than you could possibly imagine needing, higher resolution screen (actual usability without going blind, not withstanding), card reader, both a PC card slot AND the new express slot, etc, etc.

Good points, but can you imagine the outcry if Apple's first Intel notebook had been this? One pound heavier, half an inch thicker, and debatable esthetics (although not as bad as many PC laptops, I'll grant you). Apple can't afford to make dozens of laptop configurations for every possible need (the main advantage of Windows laptops) and they have a reputation for ground-breaking industrial design. So they have to try and come up with something that hits a sweet spot between satisfying people who want performance and still providing something "drool-worthy."

But hey, it still runs only Windows, so that's all OK?!

In the end, yes. But that doesn't mean that we should just sit back and accept whatever they give us. If it's not what most people want, we should let them know. (Whether that will make any difference is another story, but...)

If anyone was hoping that the switch to Intel would bring about a change in pricing philosophy at Apple, prepare to be bitterly disappointed...

I don't know why anyone would be so foolish as to think that. And if you think about it, it's not unfair to have to pay a price premium for a Mac. After all, it's not like Acer is developing their own operating system and iLife equivalents. They just license Windows and are done with it.

[can]

some info about battery; have a look:
link

[t_hah]

Originally Posted by JKT

It could pulsate gently (like the sleep light) and unobtrusively instead, though.

FWIW, a review of the Acer TravelMate 8204wlm as a point of reference for people as to what is available on the top end of the PC range.

British pricing: Acer=£1 761, top end MacBookPro = £1 779.00

If it were a purely hardware comparison, it isn't at all pretty for Apple:

Faster CPU, 1GB more RAM, larger hard drive, more ports than you could possibly imagine needing, higher resolution screen (actual usability without going blind, not withstanding), card reader, both a PC card slot AND the new express slot, etc, etc.

Believe it or not, I don't care much about Windows based laptops. There have always been faster computers, cheaper systems out there, but that is really not the reason I buy my Apple laptops. I buy them for the system (Mac OS X), for their reliability (at least for me they have always been great), and for being Apple... I just like their products.

Acer would have to hold up much more for me so that I would switch to their systems. It just won't happen. I like Linux, but don't like it enough to get rid of my Apple laptop.

The specs in the MacBook Pro are great. Sure, some things might require a $20 external adapter, but I don't mind that at all. I think we are getting a really good deal with the MacBook Pro.

[one09jason]

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

The McBook's screen bezel with the iSight is lopsided and top heavy. An aesthetic quibble, I grant you, but aren't design aesthetics paramount in a PowerBook?

I think you have a point there. I don't see the usual quicktime clip of Jonathan Ive gushing about the design on Apple's web site. I don't think they are particularly proud of that compromise. I think it was a bad idea. I use the screen always. I only sometimes use iChat / iSight. I'd rather have the screen space and carry an extrernal camera. Especially if they made the external iSight as small as the internal one.

[JKT]

The problem for Apple now is that as they are using the same tech in their computers as PCs, this is the kind of precisely direct comparison non-Mac users are going to make... at least with the PPC there was a sense of ambiguity as to what you were paying for in addition to the OS... was it faster or not, etc. Unless the software is emphasised, the sticker shock is still going to drive people away from a Mac purchase. Wrt to the pricing philosophy, I was thinking more in line of Apple trying to increase their market share. I wonder what would happen if Apple were to have an option to sell the bare bones laptop without iLife and the other bundled software at say £100 to £150 less so that it compares more favourably with PCs which are similarly devoid of software. That is, to prevent sticker shock.

Good points, but can you imagine the outcry if Apple's first Intel notebook had been this? One pound heavier, half an inch thicker, and debatable esthetics (although not as bad as many PC laptops, I'll grant you).

I suspect that Apple would have still sold a boat load (assuming a better design than the Acer... which is a given anyway). The variety of ports is overly excessive but from this thread there is also a market for some or many of them.

[Diggory Laycock]

A link for that guy who was worrying about EVDO:

http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/macwor...pro-148119.php

[one09jason]

Originally Posted by Trygve

Obviously you have not traveled much outside the developed world with your PB (N. America, W. Europe, Japan, HK, Singapore, Aus, NZ, etc.). I can get used to having to carry a doodad modem, but am not happy with it... my modem has been used countless times from all over the Third World.

Here here. And you don't need to go to the third world. Just travel outside any major US city or modern suburb. You'll need a modem.

[debohun]

Talked to folks at Apple on the floor yesterday...

I was very disappointed to find that the Classic environment is missing from Mac OS X for Intel. Seems like it could have run under Rosetta, but of course would have required an additional investment for little return. Hopefully someone else will come up with an emulator technology as a replacement. Really hate the thought of losing a huge investment in OS 9 software that I still occassionaly use, even if too rarely to justify upgrading.

More disturbing was the fact that abolutely no one at Apple could define any parameters concerning what will or won't run under Rosetta. With Classic you pretty much knew that anything would run, provided it didn't make direct access to hardware. With Rosetta, that much is true, but apparently is also doesn't allow or doesn't allow sufficiently fuctional access to certain software libraries for optimization. This according to Apple people on the floor. Yet, no one could provide a list for what would or wouldn't work. In otherwords, to buy an Intel Mac right now it to play a game of Russian roulette with your whole software investment. Very scary. (That these Intel machines were going to be introduced at MacWorld was the biggest non-secret in the industry for 5 weeks. With this in mind, its a real disappointment that Apple didn't work with their developer partners to address this risk. Trade secrecy can be very important, but only when it accomplishes something. Secrecy itself should not be an end, expecially at the expense of successful product sales.)

I too am a little frustrated with some of the removed hardware support...

Bringing the screen size into standard is a good thing, not a bad one, so I don't mind that.

But the missing modem is a huge problem, as pervasive WiFi, or even broadband is only available in urban areas, and mostly on the North American coasts. Those here who say they've never been anywhere where they've needed a modem are probably wealthy and sedentary coasters, who can afford luxuary hotels and have never had to travel outside of the affluent American coastal states. In the town where my mother lives, in Illinois, broadband wasn't even available until 8 months ago. Further I travel extensively outside of the country and, other then Europe, modem access is still mostly necessessary in the rest of the world--and on cruise ships. On the world's top-rated luxury cruise line, where the number of Macs brought onboard by guests has increased from 0% to 30% (and sometimes as high as 50%) in the last two years, Mac laptop owners will no longer be able to access the Internet from sea. Why? Because those ships only offers dial-up access via a modem connection. (So of course, the solution is too spend an extra 50 on the USB modem, but the extra gadget floating around my travel case will indeed be an annoyance, and, has someone else has pointed out, a likely potentional issue with TSA clearance processes at US airports.)

BTW, pay attention here Apple, of the Powerbooks brought on board that cruise line, the most popular form factor is (by far) the 12". In fact, even with PCs, I estimate half of the machines are those tiny little Sony Viaos. If, as rumored, Apple drops the 12" form factor, they are risking loss of a whole segment of extremely affluent travelers, a market where Apple has apparently made substantials inroads.

The addition of the iSight camera is something that would major influence me to buy this machine, as I have come very close to buying the Sony Vaio with the built in camera on several occassions, even if I did have to put up with Windows, and yet another thing to lug around, in order to have the functionality.

My biggest concern, as a tech professional who has to work in the Windows world, is that, apparently, even with Intel inside, it appears it is not possible to dual boot these machines in XP or 2003. (Nor, currently possible to run Virtual PC under Rosetta.) This, again, according to Apple employees on the MacWorld floor. I had so been looking forward to being able to lighten my load by combining two laptops into one. Without that capability, I'm not sure if upgrading my trusty old Powerbook is really worth the headache.

Speaking of upgrade headaches, apparetly it is still impossilbe to self-install a new hard drive. Grrrrrr. I suppose this is a fob to Apple's service provider's network, but its a slap in the face to Apple users because hard drive intallation should be a breeezy process that can be easily and safely accomplished by any layman. It worked that way on the pre-metal Powerbooks, and even that wasn't as easy as it could have been. Having to either shell out an additonal 150 bucks or void my warrentee and lose a day taking the entire machine appart to upgrade a hard drive isn't my idea of ease of use.

This much said, kudos to Apple for getting this machine to market so early! And the Intel iMac appears to be home machine that can easily be justified, without the risks that are present on the MacBook. I'll be buying one or two of those for family, who almost exclusively only use the built-in Apple software.

Finally, congratuation to Apple on finally breaking the historic trend of their stock going down on good news and up on bad. It's kind of sad that it took the mear addition of Intel Inside to make the difference, but it very exciting to see my stock jump like it did this week.