Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

grabberslasher · 01:46 PM

Hi there, I have posted about my browser 'Flare' (formerly 'AeroBrowser') before on MacRumors, and I know people here have used AeroBrower, and I just want to tell you all that Flare is now available as a public alpha.

What does that mean? Flare is currently very early-development code, and I'm trying hard to make it as interesting as possible (I am the sole developer), but if you want you can download it and give it a spin.

I have spent most of my time around developing the UI and aesthetics, and integrating the latest technologies in Tiger like Core Image. Features include live page scaling, Tab Exposé and Speech. Of course, it's a Universal Binary, and runs great on 10.4.6 Intel.

Please do not provide me with bug reports, I am well aware of issues and am working hard to fix them for the next release. This is alpha code, after all.

Any other feedback is very welcome, and there's a link to iChat with me in the application.

Download here, 970Kb: http://rapidshare.de/files/18337361/Flare.zip.html

MaxPower2k3 · Apr 13, 2006, 04:01 PM

the scaling is a nice feature. haven't gotten into much else. seems pretty clean. is full screen supposed to be really full screen, or is it supposed to keep the menu bar and toolbar at the top? cause the little dashboard window (while nice) is a bit redundant currently.

grabberslasher · Apr 13, 2006, 04:02 PM

Actually yeah, I was originally making it a total full screen thing, with just the dashboard browser. However, due to window focus issues I had to remove that before release. It will return, so don't worry

TETENAL · Apr 13, 2006, 05:15 PM

Will it have transparent window borders like Windows Aero?

grabberslasher · Apr 13, 2006, 05:21 PM

No that feature was pulled at the request of Microsoft. Sorry

Dark Helmet · Apr 13, 2006, 06:43 PM

I like the clean look of it and the zoom slider. Not sure what the top right buttons are used for.

grabberslasher · Apr 13, 2006, 06:47 PM

The buttons are explained in the toolbar customization palette. Bug reporting, Bookmarks, Speech and (the non-implemented) Speech Recognition.

zeta101 · Apr 14, 2006, 01:16 AM

I can't seem to donwload it from rapidshare:

******
Download-session invalid. Please click here.

Possible reasons:

* Download-session expired. Direct-links last a few minutes for free users and a few days for premium-users.
* You requested this download-session from a different IP than yours. If you use AOL, try a different browser.
***********

Can you host it somewhere else possibly? I really want to try it

Chuckit · Apr 14, 2006, 01:42 AM

The download works fine for me. Try it again?

grabberslasher · Apr 14, 2006, 05:54 PM

I have a new build ready that fixes some of the most glaring problems with the original release. Also includes middle-button support/grab-scrolling, and fixes Tab Exposé for Intel Macs.

http://rapidshare.de/files/18022771/Flare.zip.html

monkeybrain · Apr 14, 2006, 07:31 PM

I'd love to give it a spin, but I can't seem to get the download to work either.

I click the 'free' button on rapidshare, and it goes to another page and then does nothing.

BTW, is there a Firefox theme based on this? Because I've seen a screenshot on the Camino forums of one just like it (the blue Mail style buttons, which look a lot nicer than Apple's buttons in Mail as well actually).

And does that Microsoft request exclude you from using any transparency? A transparent Download window would be pretty cool and even useful I think.

Chuckit · Apr 14, 2006, 07:36 PM

Here's how RapidShare works: You click the "Free" button at the bottom. This takes you to another page. Halfway down that page, there is text that says, "Download Ticket reserved. Please wait [however many] seconds." After that many seconds, that text will turn into a download button.

sushiism · Apr 15, 2006, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Here's how RapidShare works: You click the "Free" button at the bottom. This takes you to another page. Halfway down that page, there is text that says, "Download Ticket reserved. Please wait [however many] seconds." After that many seconds, that text will turn into a download button.

Christ I never noticed that, I thought Rapidshare had stopped working on my computer a few months ago because you press free and it just sends you to rapidshare.de with the free/premium stuff at the bottom still. What a terrible piece of interface design.

Oh wait my download session is invalid, I have to wait 20 seconds again, yep does that every time what a piece of ****.

Get this uploaded somewhere sensible please.

mikelauder · Apr 15, 2006, 09:24 AM

I get the same error as zeta101.

Could someone please email me the file, I can mirror it somewhere that actually works.

climbingtractor AT scottishclimbs.com

Mike

Colin Davis · 02:25 PM

Alright, I successfully downloaded it- I mirrored it (temporarily) to http://www.sq7.org/colin/Flare.zip

Thoughts-

It certainly has some nice features. I like the gradient in the progress bar, and I like the way it shows the progress bar IN the address-bar, similiar to Safari.

Having a slider for Size is convienient, compared to adjusting with a keyboard shortcut or int eh menu, and doesn't take up much UI space. A good choice.
Doing it this way recognizes that people often want to change per-page, not just once.

Is this browser baed on WebKit?

If you hit the Info button at the bottem left, it appears nearly impossible to eliminate it.
It also adjusts it's position when you click it- Aparently, it places it's bottom left corner at your mouse cursor.
Poor form

I'm also not a fan of the button-styling. I didn't like it in Mail.app, and I don't like it here, for the same reasons.
What does combining buttons give that seperate buttons don't? (Like forward and back together)
What does the gel-capped button design offer as an advantage, other than smaller buttons, and less flexibility?

The Tab-Expose is a neat idea, but it takes a while to open, as well as not working like regular OS expose: The miniture windows should highlight and show the name when you hover over them.
One way to implement this might be to split them into seperate real windows, then let OSX take care of it, then re-combine them to tabs when we release expose.

When you are in the Show all Bookmarks page, we still see the Font-size slider. When in the bookmark edtitor, this doesn't do anything, so it should be greyed out and disabled, at the least.

The ability to run it full-screen, with iPhoto -style dashboards is interesting, but not yet very functional. Even if it were working, how often do you move just back and forward through already browsed pages? I'm not sure how useful this would be...

In all, I commend your project, and I'm glad you're programming for OS X, but I don't this this browser has much to encourage anyone to use it at the current time.

-Colin

grabberslasher · 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

Is this browser baed on WebKit?

Yes

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

If you hit the Info button at the bottem left, it appears nearly impossible to eliminate it.
It also adjusts it's position when you click it- Aparently, it places it's bottom left corner at your mouse cursor.
Poor form

Fixed in latest builds, and the Info dashboard has a close button.

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

What does the gel-capped button design offer as an advantage, other than smaller buttons, and less flexibility?

I quite like the Mail buttons, and my whole design was planned after seeing the first Tiger Mail. I haven't heard much negative response about them during my periods of private Flare testing, so I'm going to stick with the gel-capped ones for now.

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

The Tab-Expose is a neat idea, but it takes a while to open, as well as not working like regular OS expose: The miniture windows should highlight and show the name when you hover over them.
One way to implement this might be to split them into seperate real windows, then let OSX take care of it, then re-combine them to tabs when we release expose.

Takes a while to open? May I ask what sort of machine you're running it on? My 17" PowerBook and iMac Core Duo have virtually instantaneous response.

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

When you are in the Show all Bookmarks page, we still see the Font-size slider. When in the bookmark edtitor, this doesn't do anything, so it should be greyed out and disabled, at the least.

Yes this will be disabled, but I'm also looking at other ways of implementing bookmarks first. I had the idea of displaying bookmarks with a visual representation of the page (like in iPhoto) but I really don't know if that will be practical or feasible.

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

The ability to run it full-screen, with iPhoto -style dashboards is interesting, but not yet very functional. Even if it were working, how often do you move just back and forward through already browsed pages? I'm not sure how useful this would be...

Indeed, as I said I actually had to disable the "real" fullscreen mode for public release, but it will return in future builds. The Dashboard would also be extended to include an URL field, etc. but I'm thinking of just hiding the menu bar/dock and just resizing the Flare window to fill the screen, and then you can use the window toolbar. I'll see which method is better.

Thanks for the feedback, it has been most useful to me.

Another possible feature would be a "metal" appearance, just like the new iLife apps, with matching metal toolbar buttons.

sushiism · Apr 16, 2006, 03:05 PM

The gel buttons are bad for exactly the same reasons the Mail ones are terrible.
They're in the toolbar space, we're not 5 years old so we know they must be buttons.

slugslugslug · Apr 16, 2006, 03:21 PM

Did I miss the keyboard shortcuts for forward and back?

Colin Davis · Apr 16, 2006, 09:49 PM

Fixed in latest builds, and the Info dashboard has a close button.

Good- I may try it again in a while.

I quite like the Mail buttons, and my whole design was planned after seeing the first Tiger Mail. I haven't heard much negative response about them during my periods of private Flare testing, so I'm going to stick with the gel-capped ones for now.

If that's what you want, so be it, but it's not a good UI design. Apple was wrong, and so are you

I'm not going to spend pages going into the details, but please at least read the Ars review of the new Tiger Mail, from last year-

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/3

Takes a while to open? May I ask what sort of machine you're running it on? My 17" PowerBook and iMac Core Duo have virtually instantaneous response.

It takes aprox 2 seconds on my 17 inch powerbook (1.5Ghz)- It's not /long/ just long enough to make it annoying.
When combined with the fact that it doesn't work like regular expose, it's enough not to use it.

Again, I think the right way to do this is to have it break apart the pages into seperate pages, let OS X take care of Expose, then re-combine them into one app.

I know it means re-writing you're expose engine, but I think it's what's best for the app.

Yes this will be disabled, but I'm also looking at other ways of implementing bookmarks first. I had the idea of displaying bookmarks with a visual representation of the page (like in iPhoto) but I really don't know if that will be practical or feasible.

A visual representation of the page, AKA iPhoto would be interesting, similiar to the tabs in OmniWeb. It would end up taking a lot more space, though-
It's a high risk, high reward situation.

It's difficult to do well, but if you did, it would be Very nice. That said, I'm not sure if it could be done in such a way that it both is as easy to use as it is now, shows the previews, and doesn't slow people down signifigantly.

The question you need to ask yourself is, What problem does this solve? Just because it's cool isn't enough.

People generally can remember their bookmarks by just the title, given that page previews don't have a whole lot that's interesting on them.

The piece would demo well, but I'm not sure how usuable it would be.

Ultimately, it's a call based on how much you trust your UI instincts.

Another possible feature would be a "metal" appearance, just like the new iLife apps, with matching metal toolbar buttons.

Please don't do that. Metal isn't a good interface for most things- Apple is even moving away from it. If you want to go down that route, use the Unified interface... The next set of Apple apps will all be using that.

-Colin

TheoCryst · Apr 16, 2006, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Colin Davis

Please don't do that. Metal isn't a good interface for most things- Apple is even moving away from it. If you want to go down that route, use the Unified interface... The next set of Apple apps will all be using that.

I think he may have meant the non-brushed (dark unified) look of iTunes 5/6 and most of iLife '06, as opposed to the brushed metal look of Finder/Safari/iLife '05. If that's the case, I'm 100% in favor: I am absolutely in love with this look, and would love to see it implemented in the Finder and Safari for Leopard.

This is a very nice, solid (albeit young) browser... keep up the good work!

grabberslasher · Apr 18, 2006, 01:52 PM

Thanks, and yes I did mean the "dark unified" look of the new iLife apps. I have only done a little experimenting with it though, so of course I would have to redesign my toolbar buttons to the new metal and glowing blue as seen in iLife 06. You can see from the picture below:

I have a new build of Flare that fixes many little problems and adds to the feature set (like file downloads, uploads, etc).

http://rapidshare.de/files/18337361/Flare.zip.html (sorry for those who can't use Rapidshare - can anyone recommend me a good quick file sharing site?)

Dark Helmet · Apr 18, 2006, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by grabberslasher

The buttons are explained in the toolbar customization palette. Bug reporting, Bookmarks, Speech and (the non-implemented) Speech Recognition.

My point is without reading what they mean it is hard to figure out what the icon represents.

To me a star does not say bookmarks or anything of the like.

grabberslasher · Apr 18, 2006, 03:52 PM

That is why the star had been removed in subsequent builds.

Also, all the buttons have tooltips.

Colin Davis · Apr 20, 2006, 01:44 AM

OK, Thanks for clarifying. Now that I know you mean Dark-unified, I'm all for it.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as overly-critical. I do like your browser, and I support further development of it- I just want to give you my honest opinion of how it can be better.

* I want to re-iterate my objection to the icons, but I recognize that I'm not getting a lot of traction there

* Would it be possible to enable "Check spelling as you type" by default in textfields? Is this something that /should/ be done?

* When I move the Size-slider at the bottom right, it doesn't tell me what size (percentage) I'm set to. This makes it difficult to ever try to return to the same size.
** A setting to (Always show BLAHBLAHBLAH.org at this size) would be useful.

* In the Window Menu, there is an option to select "Window"- This should probably be removed.

* If I double-click a bookmark in the Bookmark menu, it takes a few seconds without a visual indicator before it starts loading it.. Any idea why?

I look forward to seeing the browser continue to develop. I really like the Icon, btw.

-Colin

Adam Betts · Jun 2, 2006, 12:13 AM

Any update yet? Flare no longer works in OS X 10.4.6. There isn't any visible window even though Flare said there is.

I would hate to miss out some of the awesome features in Flare such as hand-scroll.

If developing Flare is a little too much work, how about creating a "plug-in" for Safari? Like Chax for iChat.

TheoCryst · Jul 18, 2006, 03:09 AM

Hate to resurrect such an old thread, but I've already tried PMing the dev, to no avail. Does anyone know if this even exists anymore? Or has it completely died out? I'd love to get my hands on the source code, if possible...

Adam Betts · Jul 18, 2006, 08:01 AM

Yeah sad to see this fading away