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Jan Van Boghout · 02:23 PM

Update:

CSSEdit 1.0 has just been released. For more info, take a look at www.macrabbit.com/cssedit.

Enjoy!

Hypothetically speaking, if there was gonna be a new Cocoa CSS editing application, what would you guys like to see included? If this hypothetical application would be released, it would be in the $10-$20 range.

Please do post your thoughts about this. Hypothetically speaking of course

Gadifae · Apr 7, 2003, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Hypothetically speaking, if there was gonna be a new Cocoa CSS editing application, what would you guys like to see included? If this hypothetical application would be released, it would be in the $10-$20 range.

Please do post your thoughts about this. Hypothetically speaking of course

To be of much value to me (especailly in that price range) such an application would need (a) auto-completion (b) syntax coloring and (c) a built-in reference of all CSS properties, tied naturally to the auto-completion feature.

Another cool feature would be a color pallete that would pop the corresponding color codes into the CSS code.

Gadifae

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 7, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by Gadifae:
To be of much value to me (especailly in that price range) such an application would need (a) auto-completion (b) syntax coloring and (c) a built-in reference of all CSS properties, tied naturally to the auto-completion feature.

Another cool feature would be a color pallete that would pop the corresponding color codes into the CSS code.

Gadifae

And if this hypothetical app would be a GUI editing app?

workerbee · Apr 7, 2003, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Hypothetically speaking, if there was gonna be a new Cocoa CSS editing application, what would you guys like to see included?

Theoretically, browser compatibility listings and/or warning during hypothetical css editing could, possibly, be nice.

Simon X · Apr 7, 2003, 04:55 PM

I would love a CSS editing app. One with a GUI that allowed me to create a CSS without knowing any code. Select a font and formatting from a a bunch of options. And all the other types of things one uses CSS for without having to know or care about syntax and so forth.

I'm a Freeway user, and as such am used to creating my web sites using method akin to a page layout app. It allows CSS but they are all internal. However, I've recently created a site using Freeway and pMachine and wished there was an easy way to create an external CSS to easily control all the pMachine elements.

So that's the kind of CSS app I'm after, and there's got to be a market out there for this kind of thing. I'd sure give it a shot.

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 7, 2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by workerbee:
Theoretically, browser compatibility listings and/or warning during hypothetical css editing could, possibly, be nice.

Your suggestion has been noted

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 7, 2003, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by Simon X:
I would love a CSS editing app. One with a GUI that allowed me to create a CSS without knowing any code. Select a font and formatting from a a bunch of options. And all the other types of things one uses CSS for without having to know or care about syntax and so forth.

I'm a Freeway user, and as such am used to creating my web sites using method akin to a page layout app. It allows CSS but they are all internal. However, I've recently created a site using Freeway and pMachine and wished there was an easy way to create an external CSS to easily control all the pMachine elements.

So that's the kind of CSS app I'm after, and there's got to be a market out there for this kind of thing. I'd sure give it a shot.

Well, you describe the (hypothetical of course

) app pretty well

The goal is to make CSS editing a breeze.

Simon X · Apr 7, 2003, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Well, you describe the (hypothetical of course ) app pretty well The goal is to make CSS editing a breeze.

It's easy when it's hypothetical

If you ever need any feedback on anything to do with this then let me know, hypothetically speaking of course.

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 7, 2003, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Simon X:
It's easy when it's hypothetical

If you ever need any feedback on anything to do with this then let me know, hypothetically speaking of course.

Mail me at jan [at] macrabbit [dot] com or aim me (janvanboghout) if you're interested in the (hypothetical

) project.

ism · Apr 7, 2003, 06:23 PM

Take this stylemaster as a good starting point.

Why isn't it available for OSX yet?!!!

If you beat them to it I'd pay $50 even though I'm supposedly going to get the osx upgrade free (madness, I'd expect them to charge a bit at least as an incentive for them to hurry up).

Gadifae · 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
And if this hypothetical app would be a GUI editing app?

Even its a GUI editing app, along the lines I assume of Freeway and InTouch (neither of which I've used), I would still want to way of doing raw editing via said application.

It would also be nice to have some sort of primative plug-in system that would make taking advantage of known (and named) hacks a lot easier. As new hacks are discovered, the user could quickly drop a text file into a folder that would contain the name of that hack and the code for that hack. I'm thinking of things along the lines of the well known Tantek box model hacks.

Gadifae

jasong · Apr 7, 2003, 08:40 PM

Function as an Extension in Dreamweaver MX

-- Jason

crazyjohnson · Apr 7, 2003, 10:15 PM

It would be great if you could include a tab in your application (or something like that) so that you could view and edit the page source as well (how else are you really going to learn

).

Originally posted by Jan Van Boghout:
Hypothetically speaking, if there was gonna be a new Cocoa CSS editing application, what would you guys like to see included? If this hypothetical application would be released, it would be in the $10-$20 range.

Please do post your thoughts about this. Hypothetically speaking of course

Sarah31 · Apr 8, 2003, 01:24 PM

well i am not one for using a gui for HTML or CSS but the one thing i would expect from a WYSIWYG app is that the resulting code be W3C valid. See the problem with WYSIWYG apps is that they do not always/ever create clean code and it is this bad code that makes it hard for some people to actullay get the most (or anything) off of a website. for example flash is a very annoying fact of many pages while it dresses up a site it creates havoc for those who would rather not have such stuff or it wreaks havoc for those physically challeged people who have very pecific settings to their machines. Clean code assures that anyone going to your site should be able to view it with any browser. (some of us still use console browsers on occasion and poorly coded pages are a nightmare to navigate and use).
so my vote is for it creating clean code in whatever form it ends out being.

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 8, 2003, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Sarah31:
well i am not one for using a gui for HTML or CSS but the one thing i would expect from a WYSIWYG app is that the resulting code be W3C valid. See the problem with WYSIWYG apps is that they do not always/ever create clean code and it is this bad code that makes it hard for some people to actullay get the most (or anything) off of a website. for example flash is a very annoying fact of many pages while it dresses up a site it creates havoc for those who would rather not have such stuff or it wreaks havoc for those physically challeged people who have very pecific settings to their machines. Clean code assures that anyone going to your site should be able to view it with any browser. (some of us still use console browsers on occasion and poorly coded pages are a nightmare to navigate and use).
so my vote is for it creating clean code in whatever form it ends out being.

Yup, it must (and will) produce clean code. And the goal is to make the GUI editing much handier than writing the code yourself

So maybe you'll change your mind once it's out

thePurpleGiant · Apr 8, 2003, 09:59 PM

I have been trying to learn CSS for the past few days, since I am doing more design work now.

I didn't get very far

If this app made CSS as easy as making tables, font sizes etc with a GUI, I would buy it in a second!

Vanquish · Apr 9, 2003, 04:44 AM

I already saw the icon somewhere here on MacNN

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 9, 2003, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by Vanquish:
I already saw the icon somewhere here on MacNN

No way, where!

thePurpleGiant · Apr 26, 2003, 02:55 AM

Any Progress with this??

Sharky K. · Apr 26, 2003, 04:28 AM

yes... But can't say anything

Jan Van Boghout · Apr 26, 2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
Any Progress with this??

Contact me at [email protected] if you're interested.

Mediaman_12 · Apr 26, 2003, 12:26 PM

Take a look at TopStyle Pro
I use this program all day (on the PC) to do CSS documents for HTML all day at work, if you have either access to a PC (or VPC) try out the demo. Even the Free topstyle Lite is a better then the 'built in' CSS creators/editors found in Dreamwever & GoLive.

mishap · Apr 26, 2003, 01:35 PM

hmmm... dont see the use....Dreamweaver MX fits all my CSS needs

Mediaman_12 · Apr 26, 2003, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by mishap:
hmmm... dont see the use....Dreamweaver MX fits all my CSS needs

Dreamweaver MX's CSS creation is good if you are cerating webpages the old way, and using CSS only to control the font's. If you are creating modern webpages that use CSS for layout ( (and validate, the idea is to separate style from content) then the CSS tools available in Dreamweaver fall far short.

krove · Apr 26, 2003, 06:21 PM

-syntax coloring is a must

-need a complete css reference (why are these so hard to find?)

-would be very cool if there were some type of live preview for the various css elements? (not sure how this could be done, but would be interesting nonetheless...)

troymurray · Apr 28, 2003, 12:50 AM

Take a look at TopStyle Pro
I use this program all day

I second this about TopStyle Pro. It is by far a fantastic product that, I think, is really missing a market by not having a Mac OS X version avaiable. I'm currently in the process of becoming a full "switcher". The only application I still really need for my work is this program and I haven't found anything close to it on the Mac platform.

I would be VERY interested there were something as good or close to. What I really like about it is
1.) Property sheet for all of the styles
2.) Preview of the styles defined on the sheet

Sharky K. · May 6, 2003, 01:16 PM

http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/

just released version 1.0

oVeRmInD911 · May 6, 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Sharky K.:
http://www.macrabbit.com/cssedit/

just released version 1.0

Yummy. I was just trying to figure out CSS and then this comes out.

ratlater · May 6, 2003, 01:40 PM

Nicely done Jan. This is a slick little app.

-matt

Rickster · May 6, 2003, 02:00 PM

Keen! I've been waiting for an app like this.

Attractive web page for it, too... except that it requires your browser window to be obscenely wide in order to keep stuff from overlapping.

OptimusG4 · May 6, 2003, 02:30 PM

Nice job. Once I get the chance to play with it, I'll more than likely register it.

smeger · May 6, 2003, 06:05 PM

Spiff!!

Sharky K. · May 6, 2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by smeger:
Spiff!!

?

thePurpleGiant · May 6, 2003, 08:27 PM

Nice work Jan!

As promised, one registration coming your way.

Nice page too! Especially the semi-transparent top section, I didn't know that was possible!

Jeremy

Sharky K. · May 7, 2003, 03:09 AM

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:
Nice work Jan!

As promised, one registration coming your way.

Nice page too! Especially the semi-transparent top section, I didn't know that was possible!

Jeremy

little tip: background = transparent png

IE:windows does not support this because of lack of png transparenty support.

Gee4orce · May 7, 2003, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by thePurpleGiant:

Nice page too! Especially the semi-transparent top section, I didn't know that was possible!

...yes, I was straight into the code to figure out how he'd done it. Didn't realise PNG support was so good in browsers these days.

Like the app - might come in useful, but it won't shine until that live preview is working.

One comment though - I don't think the 3 column view works very well. You always have lots of wasted space in one of the columns, and I don't like the way the control section scrolls unless you resize it. Perhaps a better layout would be two columns at the top, with the styles in the left one, the CSS code preview in the right, and then a large bottom section with the actual CSS controls in it. The different CSS controls could be on different tabbed panels.

Sharky K. · May 7, 2003, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
...yes, I was straight into the code to figure out how he'd done it. Didn't realise PNG support was so good in browsers these days.

Like the app - might come in useful, but it won't shine until that live preview is working.

One comment though - I don't think the 3 column view works very well. You always have lots of wasted space in one of the columns, and I don't like the way the control section scrolls unless you resize it. Perhaps a better layout would be two columns at the top, with the styles in the left one, the CSS code preview in the right, and then a large bottom section with the actual CSS controls in it. The different CSS controls could be on different tabbed panels.

Only when you implement more and more css and the list of categories will grow the user interface will clutter very fast.

Now you can set the middle column on icon view only by using magnets placed in the middle column

there are already some very nice idea's how to make the style options take less space.

120db · May 7, 2003, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Rickster:
Attractive web page for it, too... except that it requires your browser window to be obscenely wide in order to keep stuff from overlapping.

ah the joys of table free web design.

i agree, this app is looking very good and was much needed (topstyle on pc was the only game in town up until now)...a registration will most likely be on its way after some more intensive use. i sent jan some feedback this morning (regarding the preview of text styles that have been spec'd as white disappearing in the list) and he replied within an hour, so that's pretty good support. great job and i look forward to further development.

Gee4orce · May 7, 2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Sharky K.:

Now you can set the middle column on icon view only by using magnets placed in the middle column

Didn't realise you can do that - although it was unintuitive - had to totally close the middle column, resize the whole window, and then re-open the middle column to icon size.

I still think it wastes a lot of space though...

Sharky K. · May 7, 2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Didn't realise you can do that - although it was unintuitive - had to totally close the middle column, resize the whole window, and then re-open the middle column to icon size.

I still think it wastes a lot of space though...

??? just drag the left bar to the right...