[Randman]

Deja menu lets you use menu bar options anywhere on the page. Free and quite handy.

[ashtoash]

Actually I believe Apple is punishing all of the design people for know apparent reason. Font management and usability sucks in OS X. Sure I can use a 3rd party application. But am I the only one that curses and screams when i have to open a dialog window to use a font????????? Reminds me perfectly of Windows 3.11

Originally posted by themexican:
God I would be so happy if I just had complete control over my screen fonts in the system. Sadly I don't think this is anywhere on apple's agenda.

[JLL]

Originally posted by ashtoash:
Actually I believe Apple is punishing all of the design people for know apparent reason. Font management and usability sucks in OS X. Sure I can use a 3rd party application. But am I the only one that curses and screams when i have to open a dialog window to use a font????????? Reminds me perfectly of Windows 3.11

Dialog window?!?

[lookmark]

I suppose he's talking about the Font Panel. Not a dialog window, buddy, it's a palette. And as a "design person", I think it's excellent -- flexible, powerful, user-friendly, easy to invoke and dismiss -- a far cry better than scrolling through an endless font menu.

[clebin]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
People have been whining about getting rid of the desktop metaphor for years, and when someone is actually doing something about it people whine then as well. Well, I say good riddance - I use the finder less and less (maybe now with Smart-folders I start using it again). When data starts to pile up, the desktop gets messy and it's time to think new. I think we are moving in a great new direction I know I'm more productive now than I ever was.

Just because I don't buy into yet does not mean I'm whining or somehow stuck in the past!

You say we need to let go of the need to know exactly where our files are. A database is a great idea for storing files, but what about a lot of incompatible databases, and a database which isn't a database at all, but a filesystem with a search tool?

There are a number of reasons I don't think the technology is ready - for one thing, Spotlight is absolutely useless if you want to access your machine and find a file across the network. It's pretty useless if you want to apply different levels of security to your files.

I also worry for Mac/PC/Linux compatibility if users say it's ok to rely completely on Spotlight and iPhoto. None of the networking protocols support it and there's no interface, unless you count iPhoto on the Mac and iTunes on Mac & PC. Which means you're not considering other people's circumstances.

Also, not everyone even uses photos. Some things, like development are intrisically directory-based.

People use the Terminal for all sorts of stuff. Amazing as it may seem, it's not Spotlight enabled! When I SSH into my webserver I can't go "give me all the PHP files related to cars" can I?

Then there's usability concerns, which may not be a concern for contientious users like you, but... Tagging a file properly is more time-consuming than sticking it in a folder. It's a good habit, but lots of people organise their filesystems very very badly already.

Tagging a file badly and having it in a folder with 2000 other items is a vision of hell. Imagine trying to get some random file with Spotlight which turns out to be called Files.zip. Users who'd call something "New File.doc" do exist and aren't going away.

You can consider this whining, but I'm just trying to point out that what's good for you is not necessarily good for everyone else.... yet.

Chris

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by clebin:
Just because I don't buy into yet does not mean I'm whining or somehow stuck in the past!

You say we need to let go of the need to know exactly where our files are. A database is a great idea for storing files, but what about a lot of incompatible databases, and a database which isn't a database at all, but a file-system with a search tool?

(etc.)

I am not outrightly dismissing a folder-based system right out. Rather you'll see me arguing for people to get organised in other threads (people who just save all their stuff to the desktop). But it's blindingly clear to me (and I've studied user interaction, usability and ui-design for years) that the desktop metaphor is starting to fall apart with the amazing amount of data we now cope with. I remember when a upgrading from an 80 MB HD to 120 MB HD was heaven on earth! We have data now far exceeding our own ability to sort it. Photos and music are just the most obvious and easiest to point out. Since they come with their own metadata-systems long since standardised, they are easy to implement and plain out needs specialised browsers.

Your example of people who call their documents "New File.doc" are exactly the people for who Spotlight will be a godsent for. Because it actually searches the content of the file as well. (And yes, I know this has been available since OS 8, but not in a particularly usable form).

And for the record I can't see how being a contentious (or controversial if you are not using big words you can't spell ) user would make me not care about usability. And the fact that people already organise their file-systems badly shouldn't exactly be an argument against automatic sorting / spotlight now should it

[adamk]

Originally posted by clebin:
...
People use the Terminal for all sorts of stuff. Amazing as it may seem, it's not Spotlight enabled! When I SSH into my webserver I can't go "give me all the PHP files related to cars" can I?
...

chris,

there is a way to use spotlight from the terminal. from working with spotlight

You can also run queries from the command line using the mdfind tool. For example:

Code:
$ mdfind "kMDItemAcquisitionModel == 'Canon PowerShot S45'"
/Users/erika/Documents/vacation1.jpg
/Users/erika/Documents/vacation2.jpg
/Users/erika/Documents/vacation3.jpg

it seems like you might need to know some codewords ("kdMDIt...") to do it, but it may be able to do simple file extension searches along with content searches. i haven't used it so i can't comment further.

[clebin]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
And for the record I can't see how being a contentious (or controversial if you are not using big words you can't spell ) user would make me not care about usability. And the fact that people already organise their file-systems badly shouldn't exactly be an argument against automatic sorting / spotlight now should it

Ah, I meant conscientious. And I'm normally so contentious with my spelling!

It can be an argument against the system if it makes a disorganised/lazy user more disorganised. Metadata is more work for them, which is why I worry about that. True, the Spotlight interface is a big improvement on Sherlock and I might even search for stuff!

Technologically, I'd like a wider, integrated, standardised approach. I can see the approach Apple are taking with Spotlight and the iApps pushing them further out of any enterprise if they aren't very careful. Standards strengthen Apple and having just got a G5 on my desk - which IT aren't over-chuffed about - I want it to stay there!

I think we both recognise the need for a good next-gen Finder, even if it is for Smart Folders and workflow. Hopefully Apple will too...

Anyway - nice discussion.

Chris

[clebin]

Originally posted by adamk:
[B]chris,

there is a way to use spotlight from the terminal.

Excellent, thanks... will read with interest!

Chris

[HOMBRESINIESTRO]

Gimme this kind of dock (just a bit nicer):

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by HOMBRESINIESTRO:
Gimme this kind of dock (just a bit nicer):

OK

[Randman]

Drag thing also lets you customize docklings. Personally, I hide the dock and use F10 for most app launches and the keyboard command for app switching.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by Randman:
Drag thing also lets you customize docklings. Personally, I hide the dock and use F10 for most app launches and the keyboard command for app switching.

I was actually referring to Drag Thing, but my memory got skewed seeing as I dropped it when switching to 10.3. Both are however capable of what he is talking about.

[fhoubi]

Optional "show directories/folders at the top first" in column mode.

[Tom C]

I've been saying the same thing for the past 3 releases...bring back the Location Manager from OS 9!

If I'm taking my laptop home from the office, I have to change the network location. Then, when I go to print, I have to change the printer separately. If I'm going to a different time zone, I also have to change the time zone separately. In OS 9, you could define a location and include network settings, printer settings, time zone, and some other things, and you would only need to change one setting.

This can't be very difficult to program.