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The Nightmare Begins (Student VISAs)
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besson3c
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Jan 28, 2017, 02:04 PM
 
My former university sent out this email (below)...

Surely this will at least lower the international student enrolment rates? And what about the experience of going to university domestically? I would argue that a university/college experience is far richer (and has a positive impact to growth and learning) with international students present.

I was going to entitle this thread "thanks Trump voters", but in fairness to them I don't think Trump was explicit about this particular policy. This is what happens when you vote for somebody who doesn't tell you what they are going to do, though.

Dear xxxxxx,
As you may be aware, the U.S. president signed an executive order yesterday that will impact visa processing abroad for international students and scholars. In sum, the following directives have been issued:
For all international students and scholars:
Visa interview waiver program: The U.S. has suspended the visa interview waiver program. This means that if you will be traveling outside of the U.S. and need to apply for a new visa to return, you should allow plenty of time for visa processing as interview wait times are expected to increase significantly. You can review the appointment and processing times at the Department of State’s website.
For citizens of Iran, Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen:
Ban on entry to the U.S.: The executive order bans entry for at least 90 days for nationals from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen. If you are from one of these countries, you can stay in the U.S. provided you maintain your current visa status.
Travel outside the U.S.: We strongly recommend that you not travel to any country outside of the U.S. at this time. If you do, you will not be able to reenter the country, at least until the ban on entry to the U.S. is lifted.
Please know that Indiana University does not share the sentiments expressed by these executive orders. We have long recognized the absolute necessity of a diverse and inclusive community to an excellent education. Each of you, regardless of your background or country of origin, are welcome in our community. You bring perspectives and experiences that, taken together, enrich the educational experience and prepare our students to thrive in the 21st century. Our student body expresses who we are as a community and reflects our foundational commitment to inclusion and diversity.
We understand that the directives contained in the executive order may be very unsettling to you, and that they may interfere with travel plans or commitments you have for the near future. All of us in the Office of International Services will do everything we can to assist and support you during this period of uncertainty.
We have information sessions scheduled next Tuesday, January 31, and Thursday, February 2
( Last edited by besson3c; Jan 29, 2017 at 10:49 AM. )
     
subego
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Jan 29, 2017, 05:45 AM
 
I'm going to try and not react out of proportion, but at best, this is painfully pig-headed.

Edit: looks like there's been a stay. Fast work.
( Last edited by subego; Jan 29, 2017 at 05:58 AM. )
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:34 AM
 
What do you mean by "a stay"?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:40 AM
 
I'm not seeing how a temporary hiatus is a bad thing, in light of circumstances.
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besson3c  (op)
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:42 AM
 
Never mind subego, you are talking about the court ordered stay.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm not seeing how a temporary hiatus is a bad thing, in light of circumstances.
What circumctances? The constant barrage of attacks via people here on student visas, and/or international student visa re-entries?

Why is this a focus?
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:49 AM
 
Only a fool thinks we can have absolute security, and at no cost.
     
subego
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:55 AM
 
I think he's addressing the part about the countries from where all citizens are banned.

Even if I could get on board with it, it was excecuted horrendously. If I understand correctly, people from those countries with green cards who had the luck to be on vacation weren't being let back in.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jan 29, 2017, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think he's addressing the part about the countries from where all citizens are banned.

Even if I could get on board with it, it was excecuted horrendously. If I understand correctly, people from those countries with green cards who had the luck to be on vacation weren't being let back in.
Yeah, including people on flights during the signing of the EO.

Let's just hope that he isn't this clumsy with Trumpcare or funding the wall.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 29, 2017, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think he's addressing the part about the countries from where all citizens are banned.
Except the countries with total bans would probably have got a pass if they were in business with Trumpenfuhrer.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...t-of-interest/
Donald Trump's Muslim ban excludes countries in which he has business ties | Wellington Times


In the 40 years to 2015, not a single American was killed on US soil by citizens from any of the seven countries targeted - Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen - according to research by the conservative-leaning Cato Institute.

But the same research shows that in the same period nearly 3000 Americans were killed by citizens of Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Turkey — most victims of the September 11 attacks.

And oops, wouldn't you know it, Trump has multimillion-dollar business operations in all those countries.

In 2015, he registered eight hotel-related companies in Saudi Arabia, according to The Washington Post; in Turkey, two luxury towers in Istanbul are licensed to use his name; in Egypt, he has two companies; and in the UAE, he has naming and management deals for two golf courses.
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subego
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Jan 29, 2017, 03:56 PM
 
Turkey's in ****ing NATO.

It's this kind of horseshit which really frosts my ass. All kinds of good points to be made here, but no... it's because there are hotels there, not like, I dunno... nuclear goddamn missiles.
     
Paco500
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Jan 29, 2017, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Turkey's in ****ing NATO.

It's this kind of horseshit which really frosts my ass. All kinds of good points to be made here, but no... it's because there are hotels there, not like, I dunno... nuclear goddamn missiles.
Maybe you are focusing on the wrong sentence.
Originally Posted by Cato Institute
In the 40 years to 2015, not a single American was killed on US soil by citizens from any of the seven countries targeted - Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen - according to research by the conservative-leaning Cato Institute.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 29, 2017, 06:48 PM
 
It's only a 90 day ban for specific countries until a better vetting process is in place, this has been blown way out of proportion. In fact, the list was compiled by Obama back in 2015 with a similar measure. Were people losing their shit back then? Nope.
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besson3c  (op)
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Jan 29, 2017, 07:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's only a 90 day ban for specific countries until a better vetting process is in place, this has been blown way out of proportion. In fact, the list was compiled by Obama back in 2015 with a similar measure. Were people losing their liquor stash. So I can back then? Nope.
There is no urgency, so why do it?
     
subego
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Jan 29, 2017, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Maybe you are focusing on the wrong sentence.
Q.E.D.

That's not the part of the article the headline is asking me to focus on. The article is about Trump's business concerns.

I'd focus on how our economy runs on sucking Saudi cock, but Trump has a hotel there... fight the real power.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 12:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'd focus on how our economy runs on sucking Saudi cock, but Trump has a hotel there... fight the real power.
That's definitely on the list for the first 100 days.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 02:44 AM
 
I guess he could just bomb the shit out of those very same countries with drones (killing 1000s of potential new students), like Obama did, and receive accolades instead?
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Jan 30, 2017, 03:12 AM
 
Obama didn't bomb all those countries. Most drone strikes were in Afghanistan, and he didn't exactly receive accolades for that either.

What is disturbing about this order is that it blocks people who have already had their visa and/or green card granted. If the visa process is complete, someone has been vetted already. If that process is flawed, then improve the process - don't take it out on people already on the way. To do it this way only serves to pander to Trump's alt-right base - and to make the media make less fuss about his elevation of his personal Goebbels to the NSC.

To say that Trump doesn't block nations he has business dealings in is a bit silly. The block is on muslim-majority nations in the mid-east that the US doesn't have much business with. The one that sticks out is Saudi-Arabia, considering just how many terrorists and "foreign fighters" come from there, but really, nobody is surprised.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 05:00 AM
 
BS, you can't be serious.

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/10...yemen_a_yemeni
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-east-conflict
U.S. Bombed Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Somalia in 2016 - NBC News

Trump disrupts travel plans for 90 days and it's "A Nightmare", Obama kills 1000s of civilians and it's ignored by the Left. Priorities, people.
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Doc HM
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Jan 30, 2017, 05:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Trump disrupts travel plans for 90 days and it's "A Nightmare", Obama kills 1000s of civilians and it's ignored by the Left. Priorities, people.
Could we take the "you did this so we do this" argument as read, just for a while. It's quite repetitive and belongs in the PreSchool Primer to Critical Thinking book of arguments.

In a lot of ways Obama was just as crappy a president as any other and he allowed the current situation in the Middle East to drift. And he loved a drone. Or several.

I think it's entirely valid to look at the way Trump has not just reached for the pen but literally the presidential crayon with this order and question how this may continue. Only a little extra thought would have crafted a workable order but no, it had to be a mindless sweeping gesture.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Could we take the "you did this so we do this" argument as read, just for a while. It's quite repetitive and belongs in the PreSchool Primer to Critical Thinking book of arguments.
Good deal, get that memo to everyone on your side, stat! That's all they ever do.
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Waragainstsleep
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Jan 30, 2017, 10:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's only a 90 day ban for specific countries.
I guess it will be an interesting test to see if he lifts it after 90 days or extends it beyond that deadline.

Place your bets folks.

Will he begin to worry you if he finds a feeble excuse to extend the ban CTP?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Doc HM
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Jan 30, 2017, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Good deal, get that memo to everyone on your side, stat! That's all they ever do.
I see you fully grasp the idea then. Oh well.
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besson3c  (op)
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Jan 30, 2017, 09:44 PM
 
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 09:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I see you fully grasp the idea then. Oh well.
I do, how many years did you guys blame Bush for everything under the sun after Obama took office? We all make comparisons to former presidents, it isn't going to stop just because you currently find it upsetting. The next time a Dem pres takes office you'll be in here doing the same, just like in 2008.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I guess it will be an interesting test to see if he lifts it after 90 days or extends it beyond that deadline.

Place your bets folks.

Will he begin to worry you if he finds a feeble excuse to extend the ban CTP?
If you reach any further you'll dislocate your shoulder. What evidence do you have that he will?
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besson3c  (op)
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Jan 30, 2017, 10:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I do, how many years did you guys blame Bush for everything under the sun after Obama took office? We all make comparisons to former presidents, it isn't going to stop just because you currently find it upsetting. The next time a Dem pres takes office you'll be in here doing the same, just like in 2008.

What did we blame Bush for after Obama took office, other than tanking the economy?

Are you one of those people like Laminar that actually documents stuff we say, or are you just saying stuff to see what proves to be effective?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jan 30, 2017, 10:14 PM
 
Seriously?
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Waragainstsleep
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Jan 31, 2017, 12:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
If you reach any further you'll dislocate your shoulder. What evidence do you have that he will?
There was literally no reaching going on in that post whatsoever.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jan 31, 2017, 12:46 AM
 
We blamed Bush for a lot but it was almost entirely related to the economy. It was entirely fair to do so because it was his overall style and specific policies that tanked the global economy. Bush sat Obama on top of a house of cards and the moronic right blamed Obama when it collapsed as was likely the plan.

Obama on the other hand set Trump up with a big pot of wishes which he can use for good or for evil. While its fair to place some responsibility on Obama's head for removing a safety net or two, blaming him for Trump being a colossal douchebag or for the American people choosing to vote for an obvious colossal douchebag is really not Obama's fault at all.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Doc HM
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Jan 31, 2017, 02:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What did we blame Bush for after Obama took office, other than tanking the economy?
I believe there was also a small armed conflict somewhere that Bush took the blame for?
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andi*pandi
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Jan 31, 2017, 02:31 PM
 
I recall people being disappointed when Obama didn't change some of the Bush surveillance laws, and was unable to close Gitmo.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jan 31, 2017, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I believe there was also a small armed conflict somewhere that Bush took the blame for?
Of course, that too

I didn't include that one because few people on the right took issue with people on the left blaming the Iraq war on Bush.
     
   
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