[Dark_Lotus]

I have dreams of becoming a successful mac developer, working for apple, or having my own start-up. I'm going to college to acquire my computer science degree and I have been second guessing myself about my choice of university. I could have gone to U of I, which is known for their computer science program, but instead I chose Southern Illinois University of Edwardsville because my friends were going there and it was a lot less expensive. Does it really matter what college you go to as long as you work hard and learn the material? Do I have just as good of a chance as everyone else out there?

[numero]

Your school is accredited by the same organization that does my alma mater. You want to make sure you get a degree from an accredited institution so that your diploma holds some weight in the rest of the world.

So, once you are in a program that has been blessed by an oversight committee, the rest is up to you. I think you will be further ahead being a top student at a small school than being a mediocre student at a "top" school. Sure, MIT and Cal Berkely probably have some really knowledgeable profs., but they don't get all of the talent in the world. There are plenty of good teachers to go around.

Study hard in all of your classes. Don't blow a class off because it doesn't seem important. This goes for CS and non-CS classes. Get used to hard work. The first classes you take (the easy ones) will be just as much work as the last ones you take. This is the proving ground where you show potential employers that you can taken on a challenge and succeed.

A lot of people say GPA doesn't matter as long as you get the degree. My theory is that those are the people with low GPAs. To me, a GPA is one way of measuring a person's work ethic and ability. I don't want to hire anyone into my group that is likely to say, "It's not perfect, but it's good enough to get by." There are compromises in the real world and products must ship, but I don't want a slacker working in my group.

As far as your post-graduation work chances . . . Apple only recruits at a handful of schools. MIT, VA Tech, U-Texas, Carnegie-Mellon, etc. Your school (nor mine) is on that list. You could still end up at Apple, but you would have to really wow them. Like maybe winning the Best Student Application at WWDC.

Your best chances of having a successful startup is to do well in your non-cs classes. It takes more than knowing some commands to be a great developer. You must know something about the people you are developing a product for. I took a little bit of Business Administration along with my CS and I am glad for it. I understand the stock market and investing better than my peers.

Well, this has gotten kind of long. Feel free to ask for more information if you'd like.

-numero

[smitty825]

I agree with numero in the fact that which college you go to does not matter. Either you know the material, or you don't.

That being said, some colleges do a really good job keeping alumni involved with the school. Often times, these alumni connections can be used to help you find a job. (IMHO, networking plays a much bigger role in helping you land a "dream" job than anything else).

To increase your networking opportunities, I would recommend joining the campus branch of the ACM. Also, since most of the developers who work for Apple live in Cupertino, your best bet to make contacts there would be to become a participant on some of the Apple Developer mailing lists. (You can even start out just answering the simple questions that get asked over and over again)

[numero]

Alas, my school does not do much with their alumni other than ask for money. Once I graduated I didn't even have access to the department job board. I had to go to the broader university job board.

Yes. Networking. Very important. I think you will find that like-minded students manage to meet each other. Your group of friends will find each other very valuable as you start the interview process and end up with jobs. You'll help each other with tips on who is hiring and may even be able to give out leads about open jobs at your company. (and you usually get paid by your company if they hire your friend)

Also, get to know your profs. If you don't understand something then go in and see them. That is what they are there for. They are not unapproachable. The good ones know that you won't understand everything and have alternate explanations ready for you.

Another thing. Be noticed by the profs. Ask questions in class. Go to their office hours when you don't know something AND go to their office hours when you have an idea about how to extend what they have taught. Show them that you grasp the current lesson and you can see how it may be used in a larger scope. By doing this you are setting yourself up for a great reference for either your first job or maybe graduate school.

Oh, and if you haven't gathered from my tone, more studying and less partying. Buckle down for these 4 years and party for the next 40.

[shinji]

Originally Posted by numero

To me, a GPA is one way of measuring a person's work ethic and ability.

Do they look at GPA before or after the job is outsourced to India?

Best move I ever made was switching from cs to business.

[jamil5454]

For EE students at UTexas Austin, I believe it is worth it to go to a little "better" school. Other EE graduates from Texas Universities (Texas State, Tech, etc) on average make about %70 of the average UT EE graduate, so if you care about salary at all that might matter. Other majors vary of course.

However, what will likely matter more is getting an internship or other similar work experience before you graduate. Perhaps working on an open source project, starting an organization of your own, or getting experience at a respected relevant company could be a good enough substitution for attending a more prestigious university.

[wadesworld]

A lot depends on what area of the country you plan on working in. In the northeast, where you got your degree is very important, often moreso than how qualified you are. In other areas of the country, your qualifications and overall fit are generally more important than where you got your degree.

[AFlood]

I think that as time goes on, in the IT industry, the value of education is quickly decreasing, while the value of proven experience and qualification is increasing. Unlike medicine, or many other industries, you don't necessarily even need a degree to work in the tech industry. I've been programming since I was about 10, and many of the most successful startups in the last few years were started by people still in college, or even high school.

Since technology is quickly becoming the greatest source of information in our world, it's inevitable that a lot of that information is going to be about technology. This means that all the information available in schools is also freely available for all outside of schools, and it is certainly being consumed. Because of this fact, many in the technology industry are beginning to realize that formal education is not necessarily as relevant as it is in other industries.

In other words, as has been said, the school you go to is not the most important factor. What your priority should be is learning and understanding the material, and developing the skill sets to to prove that you've learned and understand the material.

Like Jamil said, look for internships, work on some innovative projects, and generally try to put together a portfolio that shows that you have the ability and experience.

[CincyGamer]

Umm.. these guys don't know what they are talking about except the Texas guy. Let me see.. you want to spend four+ years in college to
study dumbed down computer science at some 3rd-cousin branch college? When you're done, you'd be lucky to get a web developer job because you will be competing against high school kids or ITT/Devry grads while your friends who went to Univ Illnois are working at Google?

Of course it matters!! Believe it or not, whats matters is the place you went not the GPA. A good GPA from a no-body, never heard of it school is worse than having a mediocore GPA from a top tier school. You have to decide what part of the industry you want to work in (graphics, databases, theory) and go for it!!

I am at Redmond now as a top SDE at MS. You have to decide where you want to work too.. do you want to marry some fat chick and end up being a me-too programmer (and working at Wal-mart eventually when you get outsourced )or do you want to be world-class? We are always hiring world-class devs here, but its hard to get an interview unless you can show something unique if you graduated from New Mexico Sunrise College. You have to understand that thousands of people are applying for the top jobs so you have to decide how good you want to be. Myself I bring in well over 90K a year and its just gravy.. I came from a mid-range school (Univ of Cincinnati - uc.edu) and if I can do it you can too. I was just in Mcdonalds and used to think about how I made $4.25 an hour. If I wouldnt have gone to a good school and worked hard, never would have make it and would still be cleaning up **** in playland.. Think about it...

[numero]

Originally Posted by CincyGamer 

Umm.. these guys don't know what they are talking about except the Texas guy. Let me see.. you want to spend four+ years in college to
study dumbed down computer science at some 3rd-cousin branch college? When you're done, you'd be lucky to get a web developer job because you will be competing against high school kids or ITT/Devry grads while your friends who went to Univ Illnois are working at Google?

That is why I said you should make sure it is an accredited school. His school measures up to standards.

Originally Posted by CincyGamer 

Of course it matters!! Believe it or not, whats matters is the place you went not the GPA. A good GPA from a no-body, never heard of it school is worse than having a mediocore GPA from a top tier school. You have to decide what part of the industry you want to work in (graphics, databases, theory) and go for it!!

I am at Redmond now as a top SDE at MS. You have to decide where you want to work too.. do you want to marry some fat chick and end up being a me-too programmer (and working at Wal-mart eventually when you get outsourced )or do you want to be world-class? We are always hiring world-class devs here, but its hard to get an interview unless you can show something unique if you graduated from New Mexico Sunrise College. You have to understand that thousands of people are applying for the top jobs so you have to decide how good you want to be. Myself I bring in well over 90K a year and its just gravy.. I came from a mid-range school (Univ of Cincinnati - uc.edu) and if I can do it you can too. I was just in Mcdonalds and used to think about how I made $4.25 an hour. If I wouldnt have gone to a good school and worked hard, never would have make it and would still be cleaning up **** in playland.. Think about it...

Sorry, but I've never heard of U of Cinci as being a big CS powerhouse. In fact, I never even heard of the school before. But, then again, you probably have never heard of my school, Oregon State University. The point is that you say the school matters, but while you are working at MS, you didn't go to MIT, Cal Berk., GA Tech, Carnegie-Melon, etc. So, the school isn't the whole story.

Meanwhile, from my point of view, I've received an unsolicited request from MS to apply for a position there. They say they pulled my resume from the pile Apple gave them of students applying for WWDC scholarships. I've also gotten to the second round with Google. Not bad for someone who didn't go to one of the "right" schools.

[monsoco]

I agree numero -- what's the deal CincyGamer? This is the Mac forums. You trolling for MS recruits? Huh? (Because if so, I'm interested -- I'm also interested in Apple and Google as well ).

I think if you go to a more well-known school you will have to do less to prove yourself to others, e.g. Apple (although if you slack off too much, it's not a one way ticket to success either). And if you go to a not-as-well-known school it'll just take demonstrating an extra effort and passion (writing a sweet mac app and blog that people love, going to WWDC and networking with the Mac folk, etc.).

[fats]

But, then again, you probably have never heard of my school, Oregon State University

I didn't go there, but my impression is that Oregon State has a well regarded computer science program.