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SplijinX · Apr 28, 2004, 03:02 PM

Just curious to know if anyone here has tested Virtual PC on their new 1.33 or 1.5Ghz powerbooks, trying to determine if it is worth upgrading from my 12" 867mhz, 640mb powerbook.

Recently I've been doing quite a bit of work with programs that run only in windows and it's becomming a bit annoying waiting for things to load. Thanks for any input you guys may be able to provide.

jaxxe · Apr 28, 2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by SplijinX:
Just curious to know if anyone here has tested Virtual PC on their new 1.33 or 1.5Ghz powerbooks, trying to determine if it is worth upgrading from my 12" 867mhz, 640mb powerbook.

Recently I've been doing quite a bit of work with programs that run only in windows and it's becomming a bit annoying waiting for things to load. Thanks for any input you guys may be able to provide.

I had the exact same setup (12" PB) as you do until this past Monday. :-) I've now got a spanking new 15" 1.5Ghz PB. I installed Virtual PC on this that very night and was amazed at the difference over my old 12" PB. You'll find a significant speed jump. very delighted really.

SplijinX · Apr 28, 2004, 03:26 PM

May I ask how much ram you have in your new machine?

dseiden · Apr 28, 2004, 06:00 PM

I have moved from a 12" 867 with the max memory to a new 1.25 with 512 and even with less memory there is a big performance difference with Virtual PC. I think some of it has to do with the increase in the bus speed but I am not really sure.

Whatever the case I am sure the 1.5 will be even faster.

Daracle · Apr 28, 2004, 06:04 PM

I would love to be able buy it and see how it runs on my machine but I think it would be a waste of money since I do have my Windows laptop.....
What are alot of you guys using this software for as I am sure most of you still use M$ boxes

dseiden · Apr 28, 2004, 06:22 PM

I am using the software to run Maximizer and a PC version of QuickBooks. I still use a PC for games and some work but have mostly switched over to my mac laptop for the majority of things. It is nice to have access to these two applicaitons when I am away from my desk without having to carry my PC laptop along with me.

The performance on the 1.25 machine I am running now is much better and so far I have not dragged the pc laptop along when I am out.

SplijinX · Apr 28, 2004, 07:08 PM

Right now I mainly use VPC to run Matlab and Simulink and view books on CDs that are ".exe"... I know there is a version of Matlab for the mac, but there are some compatibility issues when I share files with people using PCs. Ultimately I would like to be able to run some CAD stuff too, but I doubt even the new processors will have much of a chance with that.

jaxxe · Apr 29, 2004, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by SplijinX:
May I ask how much ram you have in your new machine?

768MB :-)
Really dissapointed though that it comes with two 256MB sticks and not one 512MB... For the time being I bought a 512MB stick and will get another later this year. I can sell the two 256MB sticks later too.

ul1984 · Apr 29, 2004, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by dseiden:
I have moved from a 12" 867 with the max memory to a new 1.25 with 512 and even with less memory there is a big performance difference with Virtual PC. I think some of it has to do with the increase in the bus speed but I am not really sure.

Whatever the case I am sure the 1.5 will be even faster.

Virtual PC makes good use of the L2/L3 cache, i think ive read somewhere its optimized for 512KB+ cache, if i remember correctly the 12" 867 only has 256KB L2 cache, which makes it really crippled.

SplijinX · Apr 29, 2004, 12:11 PM

Yep under system profile it has only 256kb of L2 cache... Now it's a matter of whether I want to get a new 12" or 15"

djjava · May 1, 2004, 01:31 AM

i'm throwing an additional 512mb chip into my RevA PB17.. i bet VPC will like that...

i don't sue it that often.. but I'm sure Vectorworks will appreciate the additional ram

hldan · May 1, 2004, 02:54 AM

VPC will have a significant speed increase when the new version (VPC 2004 or VPC 7) arrives from Microsoft. Don't quote me on this but I read on the web that the new version not only is designed to work on the G5's but will take advantage of the quartz extreme engine in OSX and offer significantly increased performance.

RooneyX · May 1, 2004, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by hldan:
VPC will have a significant speed increase when the new version (VPC 2004 or VPC 7) arrives from Microsoft. Don't quote me on this but I read on the web that the new version not only is designed to work on the G5's but will take advantage of the quartz extreme engine in OSX and offer significantly increased performance.

The more resources VPC eats the slower the rest of your system will be. Emulators should allow you to dual boot as well as running on top of the host OS. CPU emulation could run at boot and then load the OS with full hardware graphic acceleration and drivers for all the computer's ports and drives.

WizOSX · May 1, 2004, 09:15 AM

Now to the other extreme--is anyone of the above posters running VPC 5 on their new 12"? I've got a new 12" coming this week. I own VPC 5 but, obviously, don't want to upgrade to 6 with 7 just around the corner. Yet I need VPC for the next few months.

cambro · May 1, 2004, 10:43 AM

This is probably off topic but....

It is probably good that VPC performance isn't smashing. If it was, then many software developers would have yet one more reason to stop making OS X native versions of their applications. Why bother with the cost of making something OS X native when Mac users can run the windows version on VPC?? Yikes.

I hope VPC stays usable for those who just need something to work, but I also hope it always stays way behind in performance. The fact that MS bought VPC sort of scares me. If they make it great (and they have the resources to do so), this could be a *huge* tactical strike against software development on OS X.

hldan · 11:57 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cambro:
[B]This is probably off topic but....

It is probably good that VPC performance isn't smashing. If it was, then many software developers would have yet one more reason to stop making OS X native versions of their applications. Why bother with the cost of making something OS X native when Mac users can run the windows version on VPC?? Yikes.

From hldan:
Having VPC with "smashing performance" wouldn't give software developers a reason to stop making apps for Macintosh. Most people here that use VPC are using it to run Windows apps that are not currently available for Mac. Mac Users prefer to use native Mac apps. If VPC ran as fast as a P4 I would still buy Mac office and not the Windows version. There are several Windows Users that wish they could run certain Mac apps on their PC's too. It goes both ways.
Having VPC faster doesn't stop the fact that the Windows Operating System is still difficult to use and unreliable.

hldan · May 1, 2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
The more resources VPC eats the slower the rest of your system will be. Emulators should allow you to dual boot as well as running on top of the host OS. CPU emulation could run at boot and then load the OS with full hardware graphic acceleration and drivers for all the computer's ports and drives.

Having VPC dual boot would no longer make the Mac a "Mac". It would just be a muilt-function machine which wouldn't be a bad thing but it would cost a lot for that type of design. Keep in mind that VPC is only a software program just like iTunes, Safari or iMovie and it would benefit by using Quartz Extreme for overall speed increase. VPC is a memory/CPU hog but it doesn't slow the system down unless you have other apps open at the same time.
Since VPC is running a completely different OS then you shouldn't make the Mac mulit-task under those circumstances.
The best thing to do is max out ram as much as anyone can afford and switch the energy saver to highest performance.

WizOSX · May 1, 2004, 11:24 PM

I know (from MacWindows website) that people have gotten VPC 5 working with Panther fairly easily and well. I just haven't tried it. I was just wondering if anyone had tried VPC 5 on the new Powerbooks (since they have a "new" version of 10.3.3) and whether anything on them might break it.

RooneyX · May 1, 2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by hldan:

Since VPC is running a completely different OS then you shouldn't make the Mac mulit-task under those circumstances.
The best thing to do is max out ram as much as anyone can afford and switch the energy saver to highest performance.

Wouldn't mind doing that but I only use a couple of Windows apps (IE and Yahoo Messenger) and it makes no sense to quit all my Mac apps that I need open.

hldan · May 2, 2004, 02:56 AM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Wouldn't mind doing that but I only use a couple of Windows apps (IE and Yahoo Messenger) and it makes no sense to quit all my Mac apps that I need open.

Both of those apps are available for Mac. There's no reason to use VPC for those apps only unless IE for Mac doesn't surf to the sights that you need and if you want the Windows only features in Yahoo Messenger.

ginalee · May 2, 2004, 03:19 AM

First post people - go easy on me.

I'm wondering if it's better to use VPC + a older windows version than XP on a Rev C 12" pb (512)

I only "need" windows to run a CD Rom and my fave game.

pamelah · May 2, 2004, 03:28 AM

VPC and Windows 2000 is the best combination for performance (with max ram and video ram alloted to VPC)

You *can* use XP with all the eye candy turned off, but 2000 still runs faster.

Personally I gave up and couldn't stand how slow it was anyway.

We'll see when 7 comes out. I'd like to be able to run AutoCad.

RooneyX · May 2, 2004, 07:15 AM

Originally posted by hldan:
Both of those apps are available for Mac.

They aren't quite the same on the Mac. IE on the Mac isn't as compatible as it should be for one. Yahoo on Windows is a lot better.

ginalee · Jun 7, 2004, 02:35 PM

So I've been using VPC 6 with Win XP for a few weeks with no problems to speak of except once while installing plugins or sumpin the HD starting DRONING very loudly. I quit VPC very quickly - it hasn't happened since.

The speed is OK - I work with my Bible CD-rom quite well.

May I ask the knowledgable VPC experts then:

- is it bad to have windows running all the time (like I do the mac) cos my pb always sleeps when he's not in use?

- on my 512 RAM machine I've allotted it 352 MB - it won't let him use anymore, normal?

- should I bother slimming windows down i.e. deinstalling apps I won't need? Would that improve anything speedwise?

Thanks for any input...

vinster · Jun 7, 2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by ginalee:
May I ask the knowledgable VPC experts then:

- is it bad to have windows running all the time (like I do the mac) cos my pb always sleeps when he's not in use?

- on my 512 RAM machine I've allotted it 352 MB - it won't let him use anymore, normal?

- should I bother slimming windows down i.e. deinstalling apps I won't need? Would that improve anything speedwise?

Thanks for any input...

I would only run VPC when you're actively using it for something, especially on a laptop, as it canes the CPU. The fans in my PowerBook come on after only a few minutes use.

It might be a bit less demanding in the background but I think you'd slowly be cooking your machine if you constantly run VPC. It'd probably best to get a real PC if you're using VPC a lot.

And keeping Windows slimmed down definitely improves speed. One way to do this is to create a base installation then backup the VPC image file. You can then just copy it back to it's original location when Windows gets clogged up with junk apps, erroneous registry settings, spyware, malicious viruses, etc.

Cheers,

ginalee · Jun 7, 2004, 08:03 PM

And keeping Windows slimmed down definitely improves speed. One way to do this is to create a base installation then backup the VPC image file. You can then just copy it back to it's original location when Windows gets clogged up with junk apps, erroneous registry settings, spyware, malicious viruses, etc.

I lost you here, sorry

Base installation sounds as if I will have to reinstall it - back up the VPC file?

vinster · Jun 7, 2004, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by ginalee:
I lost you here, sorry

Base installation sounds as if I will have to reinstall it - back up the VPC file?

Yes, if you set up a new PC, install Windows + your main apps again and then get it configured exactly how you like, you can copy the VPC drive image (the .vhdp file in VPC6) and keep it offline somewhere. You can easily make incremental backups by copying the entire disk image again when you feel like it.

It's a bit of work to have to reinstall everything but it'll save you the hassle of uninstalling apps and cleaning up the Windows/Systtem folder, registry, etc. then hoping you've got everything at some later date.

pwillie · Jun 8, 2004, 02:55 PM

Need some help here, anyone knows how to speed up VPC 6 (win2k client) under OSX (w/ latest updates)? I've installed in my new 12" 1.33 GHz PB w/ 1.25 GB RAM, and it is crawling along, I;ve maxed out the RAM allocated (512MB), and also the video memory.. I've seen posts that says that VPC is "usable" in slower machines(some users actually play games in it) and I'm wondering what did I do wrong??
My VPC only shows a 300MHz processor (yikes!!) in the system info, no wonder its so sluggish even tho I did not installed any applications..
I need VPC primarily for internet banking which only runs in IE (darn!), and it doesn't work in the Mac browsers I tried.

Beerman · Jun 8, 2004, 03:41 PM

I just received my brand spankin' new 12"/60/1.33/768 and installed VPC 6.1 as part of M$ Office v.X. I utilize a space merchandising program from our parent company that is only available in Windows.

When I first installed VPC, it ran relatively fast, and the difference between it and my old Gateway Pentium III was barely noticable. However, I have installed other Windows apps I need (IBM Client Access for AS/400, etc.) as well as a significant Windows security update, and the program is running at a snail's pace today. I had originally set it up with 384MB RAM and 4MB VRAM, but upped it today to 512MB/16MB. We'll see if that helps - the catch-22 here is that the more that you take from your Mac's RAM to allocate to VPC, it seems like you see more degradation in overall system performance.

Does anyone out there have a "preferred" VPC configuration that is time-tested? I feel like, speaking for myself only, I'm taking shots in the dark here to optimize speed when I really only know enough about the whole deal to get myself in trouble.

McFarmer · 07:32 PM

Used to have a 800MHz/512MB TiBook, and Virtual PC 5.0 with WinXP was just dog slow.
What annoyed me most was closing VPC, when the whole RAM got written back into a file. That literally took 3-5 minutes and the TiBook ground to a complete halt. No other application seemed to get any CPU cycles - you just couldn't use it while VPC quit.

On my new 12" 1.33GHz/1.25GB PowerBook the very same VPC 5.0 with the very same disk image file suddenly runs _a_lot_ faster. When VPC quits it takes only 10-20 seconds (as opposed to minutes) and the computer is still responsive in other applications at the same time. Perhaps it helps that I have the 5400rpm drive.

XP is still slow though, no longer dog slow, just slow. You can still watch every window draw on screen: frame first, then the title, then the background, the scroll bars, etc. But it does feel faster. IE 6.0 is almost useable now. At least well enough for me to check web site designs in IE 6.0.

What helps in XP is if you switch off all the XP eye-candy. Go to Control Panel -> System Properties -> Tab 'Advanced' -> Performance -> Settings:
and turn all visual effects off, which switches the look back to the old Windows 2000 look.

Hope this info helps.

B_2 · Jul 8, 2004, 12:49 PM

Hi

How well would Virtual PC run on the 17" Powerbook with 1GB of Ram, bearing in mind the following points.

I only use 1 application at a time on my Windows Box.

Only intend to run software that was designed for Windows 95/98.

One final question can you install Windows 95 on VPC 6.1 and will i be able to run W95 on VPC 7?

B_2

junebug630 · Jul 8, 2004, 09:21 PM

"There are several Windows Users that wish they could run certain Mac apps on their PC's too. It goes both ways."

Sorry about the handmade quote , but for some reason my quote button is not working.
This Windows XP user wishes he could run clutter on his XP machine !

wuzup101 · Jul 9, 2004, 01:05 AM

LOL... this is why you have 1 PC and 1 Mac

I know I'm going to get flammed for this, but I love my PC too (hand built). It seems like a waste of time to get something running on a machine it was obviously not created to run on. Now I know that a PB could easily handle the same things as many modern PC's hardware wise. But because of the restrictions due to emulation one must ask himeself if it's really worth it. I personally think you should just build yourself a cheap sub $1000 PC desktop if you find yourself using vPC that much. It seems like a great idea, just needs some refinements.

Also, if you want to use AutoCad... please buy a PC... you'll thank yourself

BTW... just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to flame you guys or the Mac community (I love you all). Just saying that you wouldn't buy a corvette to cart around your family of 5... (if you see where I'm going here).

McFarmer · Jul 9, 2004, 06:48 AM

wuzup101, your points are very valid and I don't think people would flame you for your post.

For home use, a cheap PC plus VNC or other screen-sharing scheme works best. But that's not an option for PowerBook users - as it's a bit uncomfortable to lug a PC around...

PowerBooks need to be mobile. Which is why Virtual PC is mostly used by PowerBook users.
(Especially at the moment since VirtualPC still doesn't run on a G5.

)

SplijinX · Jul 9, 2004, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by McFarmer:
wuzup101, your points are very valid and I don't think people would flame you for your post.

For home use, a cheap PC plus VNC or other screen-sharing scheme works best. But that's not an option for PowerBook users - as it's a bit uncomfortable to lug a PC around...

PowerBooks need to be mobile. Which is why Virtual PC is mostly used by PowerBook users.
(Especially at the moment since VirtualPC still doesn't run on a G5. )

Any good VNC program you recommend? Had tried it a couple years back connecting a Windows laptop from school to my Windows desktop at home with some success, but I recalled having to shut down ZoneAlarm in order to get through the firewall. Not too keen on doing that nowadays with everything going on out there.