[driven]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Widgets don't need ported.

They run on any platform.

Except Windows. hahahaha.

(I know, I know .... HARDWARE platforms.)

[FeralCat]

Originally Posted by ghoser777

Wouldn't that kill... the Dock?

That's alright, it'll get better. </monty python>

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by driven

Except Windows. hahahaha.

(I know, I know .... HARDWARE platforms.)

No... they run on every OS that supports javascript, which is pretty much all of the major ones (and usually that just means it has a browser that supports javascript). Or am I totally missing the joke?

[driven]

No ... you are not missing the joke.

I had NO idea that you could run these Widgets on Windows.

[Sebastien]

Originally Posted by ManOfSteal

I like the extra exposure....especially after the failure of Sherlock "Channels" from developers. They got this one right from the beginning.

I found the original Sherlock to be the most useful tool to use at the time; there were tons of site plugins for it, and I never needed to pull up a browser to search on anything I needed.

Then came Sherlock 2. As good as Sherlock 1 was, this one was total crap. To the point that I tried to get Sherlock 1 installed over it, but never could.

I still think Sherlock 1 is the best tool there was for searching; too bad Apple totally foobared it by doing the typical "let's improve it by really messing it up for no good reason" thing.

[Superchicken]

Originally Posted by Sebastien

I found the original Sherlock to be the most useful tool to use at the time; there were tons of site plugins for it, and I never needed to pull up a browser to search on anything I needed.

Then came Sherlock 2. As good as Sherlock 1 was, this one was total crap. To the point that I tried to get Sherlock 1 installed over it, but never could.

I still think Sherlock 1 is the best tool there was for searching; too bad Apple totally foobared it by doing the typical "let's improve it by really messing it up for no good reason" thing.

Sherlock was great in 8.6 it did what it was supposed to do. After that with Sherlock two.. you always had the creepy girl looking at you from that one icon... creepy...

[saddino]

Originally Posted by driven

No ... you are not missing the joke.

I had NO idea that you could run these Widgets on Windows.

Konfabulator widgets run on the Mac and Windows. Their specific XML runtime engine was ported by Pixoria to accomplish that.

Dashboard widgets run on the Mac. Yes, they're built using HTML, CSS and JS. But since many of these widgets also rely on BSD system calls, AppleScript and/or Cocoa plugins to run, there isn't a realistic way of porting them to Windows.

No matter though, Windows has even other solutions such as Desktop X.

Widgets are everywhere.

[aristotles]

I find the weather widget (especially the forecast), the international clock widgets and the itunes controller widgets useful.

I don't want to have to open several tabs/windows to look that stuff up. It's faster to just have the widgets.

[rtbarry]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

When an improved theater widget (they're all kind of klunky) and a better Google Maps widget comes out, I'm going to use dashboard all the time.

Seen the new Google Maps widget? It's number 4 on the Apple downloads list this week. Very simple clean design. I often opt for it over the full browser version.

>> http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashb...apswidget.html

A little bit feature lite right now, but widget features need to be added carefully and slowly to preserve what makes widgets great: simple utility and low overhead.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by effgee

Because it makes for nice eye candy with all the "bubble'ing" and the "baby toy" colors. As far as "useful" is concerned - I have yet to find a single widget that I would have considered useful for myself. Not implying that they can't be useful for other people and their particular needs, of course.

I found a few useful ones, the TV Guide, the real time translator which I use a hella lot to be the 2 most notable. I like the weather one too and the note pad things are great too

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by wataru

Dashboard has to be the most over-hyped new feature. I've found it to be completely worthless. Most widgets are just portals to existing websites... why don't I just use the website instead of waiting for countless widgets to unfreeze themselves when I open Dashbaord!?

That's a good question. Let's compare the steps needed to perform equivalent tasks with Dashboard and a web site.

Task 1: Checking the weather

Dashboard:

1. Click button to invoke Dashboard. Boom, you're looking at the weather.

Web site:

1. Open a new Safari window.

2. Browse to http://www.accuweather.com/.

3. Find the nice camouflaged "Local Weather Forecast" text field. Click it.

4. Type your ZIP code, followed by the Return key. Once the page loads, you're looking at the weather.

Task 2: Looking up a phone number in the Yellow Pages

Dashboard:

1. Push a button to invoke Dashboard.

2. Click the text field in the Yellow Pages widget.

3. Type the name of the company, followed by the Return key.

Web site:

1. Open a new browser window.

2. Browse to http://www.switchboard.com/.

3. Click on the "Business Name" field.

4. Type the name of the company you're searching for.

5. Click on (or tab to) the City Name field.

6. Type the name of your city.

7. Click on (or tab to) the State field.

8. Type the name of your state, followed by Return.

As you can see, using a Dashboard widget can often involve fewer keystrokes/mouse clicks than the equivalent action at a web site.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

... long-winded example

C'mon - it's perfectly fine that you like dashboard and use it frequently - but that example of yours is beyond bogus. And you, of all people, know that. The operative word here is "bookmarks" - in your browser's "bookmarks bar", on the desktop, in the dock, heck you can even stick 'em in your "scripts" folder and have them in a system-wide menu if you're not into using/buying 3rd party apps. Any bookmark (*), one click away.

As stated above - it's cool if you prefer the weather widget (or any other widget, for that matter) over a regular browser window - but let's not invent imaginary task flows to show that one solution is (supposedly) better than the next.




(* - e.g., http://wwwa.accuweather.com/forecast...19101&metric=0, and for 15 days as well)

(P.S. - No, I don't use any of the "bookmark scenarios" myself. I prefer having all my relevant info (bookmarks, contacts, email addresses, songs, etc.) at my immediate disposal using Quicksilver. No mousing around, no clutter anywhere - not even in dashboard.)

[rozwado1]

Originally Posted by wataru

Dashboard has to be the most over-hyped new feature. I've found it to be completely worthless. Most widgets are just portals to existing websites... why don't I just use the website instead of waiting for countless widgets to unfreeze themselves when I open Dashbaord!?

That's what I thought when I was running 256MB RAM. Upgrade... it's useful.

[moreno]

dashboard is useless for the user, but helps apple to promote eye candy techs like coreimage.
also, dashboard flicking sucks.

[Mastrap]

Dashboard is extremely useful for me.

One click: I know the time in all of our office loactions
One click: Weather forecast
One click: I listen to the BBC station of my choice
One click: Access to a calculator
One click: Currency conversion
One click: Access to a quick html snippet creator
One click: Calendar access

Dashboard loads instantaneously on a G5 with 1GB of Ram. When it first came out I too dismissed it as a gimmick, now I use it all the time.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by effgee

C'mon - it's perfectly fine that you like dashboard and use it frequently - but that example of yours is beyond bogus. And you, of all people, know that. The operative word here is "bookmarks" - in your browser's "bookmarks bar", on the desktop, in the dock, heck you can even stick 'em in your "scripts" folder and have them in a system-wide menu if you're not into using/buying 3rd party apps. Any bookmark (*), one click away.

Wrong - even then it's three clicks:

1. Click Safari's icon to activate it

2. Click bookmarks menu

3. Click menu item in bookmarks menu

If you use the bookmarks bar instead of the bookmarks menu, it's still two clicks. With the Dashboard, it's *one* click.

And you completely ignored the one about the Yellow Pages. You still have the extra two clicks just to get to switchboard.com, and you still have the extra clicks to enter your city and state. It's more clicks, no matter how you look at it, unless you have bookmarked the listing for each and every company you will ever want to look up at any point in your life.

(P.S. - No, I don't use any of the "bookmark scenarios" myself. I prefer having all my relevant info (bookmarks, contacts, email addresses, songs, etc.) at my immediate disposal using Quicksilver. No mousing around, no clutter anywhere - not even in dashboard.)

Well, if you use QuickSilver to do these tasks, then you are admitting that the experience of going to a web page and using their interface to find something could be improved on. So you're not making a very good argument for "just use a web page".

I only mentioned two widgets, also. I could go on about the quick and easy access to a calculator, dictionary, and the Address Book with only one click rather than three (one to get a new Finder window, one to open the Applications folder, and one to open the app itself) or using some other third-party app like Quicksilver. Throw in a bunch of great third-party widgets, and the Dashboard is quite nice.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

... So you're not making a very good argument for "just use a web page". ...

I'm not making an argument for or against anything - the only thing I said is that your initial examples are (more or less intentionally) skewed - nothing else. As far as I'm concerned, people can send a pigeon with a message to their local TV station, asking for their weather forecast in writing.

And "clicking the Safari icon to activate it"? *grin* ... you're selling yourself way short on that one. When was the last time you actually clicked in a dock icon to activate/switch to an app that's already running? Honestly?

Again, and just for shits and giggles: The proverbial sack of rice tipping over in central China is more interesting to me (on a personal level, that is) than the way people choose to access their favorite information - just don't tell people that "the other way" is crap because it (supposedly) takes 17,854 clicks to get there when the real number is a lot closer to your favorite.

Whatever lets you work/play/goof most efficiently is perfectly fine by me.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by effgee

I'm not making an argument for or against anything - the only thing I said is that your initial examples are (more or less intentionally) skewed - nothing else. As far as I'm concerned, people can send a pigeon with a message to their local TV station, asking for their weather forecast in writing.

How so? I've shown that it takes fewer mouse clicks/keystrokes to use the Dashboard, and this is objectively true. What about my examples is "skewed"?

And "clicking the Safari icon to activate it"? *grin* ... you're selling yourself way short on that one. When was the last time you actually clicked in a dock icon to activate/switch to an app that's already running? Honestly?

WTF? I use the Dock to switch apps all the time. What do you use? Cmd-Tab? That's still an extra keystroke, which is equivalent to a mouse click. Plus, if you use the bookmarks bar, cmd-tab adds another mouse-click/keystroke to bring up a new window, effectively neutralizing the advantage of using that method.

No matter what you use to switch to Safari, it's going to be an extra mouse click or keystroke to do it, unless you've discovered some program that tells what program you want to use via telepathy and switches to it automatically.

Again, and just for shits and giggles: The proverbial sack of rice tipping over in central China is more interesting to me (on a personal level, that is) than the way people choose to access their favorite information - just don't tell people that "the other way" is crap because it (supposedly) takes 17,854 clicks to get there when the real number is a lot closer to your favorite.

Uh, did you even read the post I quoted in my original message here? I was replying to the people that have been saying "The Dashboard is useless and just eye candy. Why would I want to use that when I can just go to a web site and find the same info?" My answer is that the Dashboard is handy because it lets you do the job with fewer clicks. I didn't call any method crap or say you shouldn't use it. That's what the people I'm replying to are doing.

Reading Comprehension: 1. Effgee: 0.

[rtbarry]

Charles, stop making sense. It's pissing him off ;-)

[effgee]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

... Reading Comprehension: 1. Effgee: 0. ...

Heh. Funny. Take a deeeeep breath, wait until that vein in your forehead stops throbbing. Now ... ain't that better already?

Where - in any of my posts - did I say that using a web page involves less clicks than it does to complete the same task using the dashboard?

Did you re-read to check?

Alrighty then - nowhere.

Correct answer.

Good boy.

And even though I really don't feel like arguing this ridiculous point - a quick fyi ...

The shortest way between A and B is not always and forever the most efficient one for everybody. Meaning that simply because method X works best for you (and coincidentally (or not) involves fewer actions to be taken 'til task completion) does not mean it's the best/most efficient way for everyone else. It's also about how "method X" integrates into your individual work flow - might work great for some, might work not so great for others.

Lots of different people, lots of different kinds of work, lots of different tasks to be completed, lots of different work styles. It's really not that complex of a concept now, isn't it?

Dashboard works great for you? Rock on, dude - more power to you.

[tomaszek]

The Dock owns and controls Dashboard. The only way to kill Dashboard wigdets is to kill Dock. The Dock automatically relaunches when killed so you do not have to worry that this action will leave you dockless. So see what really happens, open the Terminal and type "top". Resize the window to see all processes in their full glory (BTW you might be surprised how many processes are running in your system).
Now open the second Terminal window and type "killall Dock". See all the Dashboard processes disappear it the first window.

[aristotles]

effgee, give up already. You are making absolutely no sense.

I tried Quicksilver and promptly deleted it off my hard drive after trying it a couple times.

[nforcer]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

The weather widget lets me know if its going to rain today, to me thats the definition of useful.

I prefer the Black-U-Weather forecast for such information.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by aristotles

I tried Quicksilver and promptly deleted it off my hard drive after trying it a couple times.

Why? I'm curious.

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by tomaszek

The Dock owns and controls Dashboard. The only way to kill Dashboard wigdets is to kill Dock. The Dock automatically relaunches when killed so you do not have to worry that this action will leave you dockless. So see what really happens, open the Terminal and type "top". Resize the window to see all processes in their full glory (BTW you might be surprised how many processes are running in your system).
Now open the second Terminal window and type "killall Dock". See all the Dashboard processes disappear it the first window.

Woah, that's a little weird. Dashboard really shouldn't have anything to do with the Dock... should it?

[effgee]

Originally Posted by aristotles

effgee, give up already. You are making absolutely no sense. I tried Quicksilver and promptly deleted it off my hard drive after trying it a couple times.

And that means what to me? Simply because a tool doesn't work for you means that I have to delete it? When was that memo passed around?

Whatever happened to "And yet the true creator is necessity, which is the mother of invention"? Lots of different needs, lots of different inventions, lots of different tools - get it? Or did you by chance forget your own quote? We're not getting a bit senile there, are we?

Here, so even the really, really thick ones get it. In orange and bold - only for you:

I have never said - not once - that either one of these: a) plain old web pages, b) Quicksilver or, for all that matters, c) Apple's Dashboard is the single best choice that fits everyone on the planet. Each and everyone of the options above can work great for person and/or be mediocre/terrible for the next one.

Talk about reading-comprehension. And do me a favor, if you please - take the pathetic "Apple-fanboy-OMG!1!!-he-insulted-the-Dashboard" attitude and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[Ghoser777]

An abridged summary of today's debate (with some minimal modifications and embellishments)

Question posed by wataru: Why wait for Dashboard to load - I can just go to the website!
Answer posted by CharlesS: Here's a couple of examples of how it takes less clicks
Retort posted by effgee: I don't like your examples - there are other fast ways
Response by CharlesS: But Dashboard is still faster (you haven't contradicted me on a counting basis)
Answer by effgee: Don't tell people that more clicks is bad - use what works
Retort by CharlesS: I didn't say that - I was answering other arguments
Response by effgee: Don't tell people that more clicks is bad - use what works
Input from aristotles: WTF? QuickSilver is teh sux0r!
Response by effgee: STFU! Use what works.

Judge's Ruling:
This debate sux0rs. The two main debaters are clearly not conflicting on the same level. CharlesS is arguing that Dashboard is good because it decreases the number of clicks. effgee is arguing that people should use what they like. How are these arguments in conflict? If you guessed they are not, you deserve a pat on the back.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

... How are these arguments in conflict? If you guessed they are not, you deserve a pat on the back.

Damn that was harsh (and true, too - thanks for rubbing it in - %!§&). Since there's no blushing smilie ... there ya go:

[Sebastien]

It's called trolling.

This place is turning in Slashdot. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[nforcer]

Originally Posted by Recreational Poster

Granted, there are some useful widgets. However, the majority of widgets developed to date are not particularly useful or are only useful to a very small audience.

I would say this is the best point of this thread. Coupled with the thread topic it does make me wonder. Of all the features they could be pimping, Spotlight, Quartz 2D Extreme (even if it is not turned on yet and only works on some video cards), etc., they choose the one that I personally think is the least useful. I use the weather widget and sometimes tv tracker, but that is it.

[nforcer]

Originally Posted by Sebastien

It's called trolling.

This place is turning in Slashdot. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Comment moderation would be pretty cool. Sometimes Slashdbot can be funny.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by effgee

Heh. Funny. Take a deeeeep breath, wait until that vein in your forehead stops throbbing. Now ... ain't that better already?

Where - in any of my posts - did I say that using a web page involves less clicks than it does to complete the same task using the dashboard?

Okay, Ghoser777 already said it pretty much perfectly, but I'm a completionist, and my irony meter is flying off the scale right now, so I have to reply.

Where - in any of my posts - did I say that you said that using a web page involves less clicks than it does to complete the same task using the dashboard?

Did you re-read to check?

Alrighty then - nowhere.

Correct answer.

Good boy.

The shortest way between A and B is not always and forever the most efficient one for everybody. Meaning that simply because method X works best for you (and coincidentally (or not) involves fewer actions to be taken 'til task completion) does not mean it's the best/most efficient way for everyone else. It's also about how "method X" integrates into your individual work flow - might work great for some, might work not so great for others.

Lots of different people, lots of different kinds of work, lots of different tasks to be completed, lots of different work styles. It's really not that complex of a concept now, isn't it?

Dashboard works great for you? Rock on, dude - more power to you.

Um, great. I think you're reading quite a bit into my posts that isn't there. For the third time, all I'm pointing out is why the Dashboard is useful, and consequently not useless, as wataru and others are claiming. I'm not saying it's the One True Way™ to do everything, and I'm not saying you must use it.

Here, so even the really, really thick ones get it. In orange and bold - only for you:

I have never said - not once - that either one of these: a) plain old web pages, b) Quicksilver or, for all that matters, c) Apple's Dashboard is the single best choice that fits everyone on the planet. Each and everyone of the options above can work great for person and/or be mediocre/terrible for the next one.

[effgee]

Yep. And it's all good now, too - even for a lounge fight. I'd rather go and catch some Zs - you be the completionist that you are and have the final word. Knock yourself out.



Btw, that looks a lot more like red than orange to me - is it my monitor or should you go and see a good eye doctor?

[Sebastien]

Originally Posted by nforcer

Comment moderation would be pretty cool.

All you get is + moderation on the stupid ' "look how funny I am" quote du jour' (think "1:... 2;.. 3: profit!" crap), and - or no moderation on most of the good stuff, so it's the WORST feature on SlashDupe. Well, besides the constant reposts... with inaccurate and misleading titles.... of old news you've already read elsewhere. ("Old news for Nerds, Stuff that once mattered")

The only, ONLY good part of the site is 'Ask' section, since it has something of genuine interest that isn't just a rehash of other stuff elsewhere.

If you want moderation on this site, do it the way the Apple Boards do it now.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally Posted by nforcer

I prefer the Black-U-Weather forecast for such information.

[pbjudge]

Originally Posted by deomacius

Has anyone else noticed the speed hit a PoweBook takes when any widgets are running? It was painful.

I have noticed the slowness BIG TIME. It really bothers me. I have a 1.25G4 PowerBook with 512 RAM and it runs slower than my old G3 iBook used to...

[tie]

I love widgets. I had thought this would be one of those features which is completely useless to me (like Automator). But in fact, it is great to have these little resources hidden away, available at the touch of a button.

For example: I use real stickies (post-it notes) all the time, and I've always wanted to like the computer versions (ever since, what, System 7?). But the computer versions aren't useful as real post-it notes because they are always taking up screen space or at least app-switching space, and are not as easily accessible as they should be. But I'm actually using the widget versions. (Although they are poorly designed, they mostly do the job.)

Different conversions, dictionary, weather: This is all information I like to know, but not often worth the effort to go find them. Even with the dictionary search bar in Firefox.. the widget is faster and less obtrusive. I like having google maps open all the time. For decoration, I have a widget showing which can flip through an album of a few hundred photos.

I don't like though, that they are sometimes slow to update. Also, they seem to be overly resource-intensive. I don't understand why the conversion widget is, for example, currently taking up 30 MB of real RAM and 185 MB of virtual memory.

[Sebastien]

Originally Posted by pbjudge

I have noticed the slowness BIG TIME. It really bothers me. I have a 1.25G4 PowerBook with 512 RAM and it runs slower than my old G3 iBook used to...

A site discussed the why of this (Arstechnica I think); basically, Widgets take up a crapload of ram, which must be swapped in/out whenever DB gets called. Gets worse the more widgets you have running.

Implementation still seems to be lacking.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by effgee

Btw, that looks a lot more like red than orange to me - is it my monitor or should you go and see a good eye doctor?

I'm red/green color-blind, thanks. In case you hadn't noticed, I copied and pasted your text, and assumed you'd used the &#91;highlight&#93; tag. Sorry...

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Where - in any of my posts - did I say that you said that using a web page involves less clicks than it does to complete the same task using the dashboard?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by tavilach

[KeyLimePi]

Anywho....

I have to say that while I originally thought Dashboard was overhyped, I'm really starting to use it, even more than Spotlight. I loved Konfabulator but I've stopped using it altogether.

I use Transmit, and although it meets all my needs just fine, I really want to upgrade just to get the Transmit widget. If you haven't seen it you can see a QT movie of it in action on the Panic site. Anyone using it?

[driven]

I use Cyberduck FTP myself (I like the price) but I have to tell you that some of these new Transmit features look compelling. (Not just the widget either ...)

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by lavar78

Why? I'm curious.

I prefer to use the dock. I did like having to type to launch apps. To me, that defeats the purpose of a GUI and we might as well go back to the terminal.

I'm more of a visual person. I prefer visual interfaces. eg. I prefer Visual Source Safe over CVS/WinCVS as you cannot readily "see" what exists in the repository without checking something out.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by effgee

And that means what to me? Simply because a tool doesn't work for you means that I have to delete it? When was that memo passed around?
<snipped incoherent personal attacks directed at me>

Don't you have something better to do? Who's the fanboy?

I did not like Quicksilver's interface and I found the lack of documentation disturbing. Deal with it. If you like it, fine.

I like Dashboard and find it to be useful. Deal with it.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by aristotles

I prefer to use the dock. I did like having to type to launch apps. To me, that defeats the purpose of a GUI and we might as well go back to the terminal.

Well, Randman really likes F10 Launch Studio (I think that's what it's called). You might want to check that out. It's more visual than Quicksilver but more versatile than the Dock.

[umijin]

I just "upgraded" to Tiger last night, and anticipated that Dashboard would be everything it has been touted to be. Sadly, Dashboard can't even approach the functionality of the shareware app Konfabulator. The widgets themselves are ugly (RED calendar?), they are not left at the desktop level, most cannot be resized and all cannot have their opacity adjusted.

The 'weather' widget is inferior to Konfabulators - can't even set it to the particular city I live in here in Japan - only Tokyo. The RSS widgets are also too big compared to Konfabs and not very elegant. And did I say ugly? Apple should hire the developers of Konfab widgets to make their own look palatable with OSX.

[Randman]

Yep, F10 rocks. Love it. Makes QS seem complicated in comparison.

[driven]

Originally Posted by umijin

I just "upgraded" to Tiger last night, and anticipated that Dashboard would be everything it has been touted to be. Sadly, Dashboard can't even approach the functionality of the shareware app Konfabulator. The widgets themselves are ugly (RED calendar?), they are not left at the desktop level, most cannot be resized and all cannot have their opacity adjusted.

The 'weather' widget is inferior to Konfabulators - can't even set it to the particular city I live in here in Japan - only Tokyo. The RSS widgets are also too big compared to Konfabs and not very elegant. And did I say ugly? Apple should hire the developers of Konfab widgets to make their own look palatable with OSX.

I've tried both and much prefer Apple's solution over Konfab's. Each his own I guess.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Randman

Yep, F10 rocks. Love it. Makes QS seem complicated in comparison.

Well, QS does much, much more.