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Before Maddow's Sex Change Operation (Page 3)
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stupendousman
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I'm sure she will be in complete ruins knowing that she doesn't conform to stupendousman's beliefs as to what "normal" grooming entails.
So it's your belief that statistically speaking, that there would not be more men with Rachel's current look than women?

I'm pretty sure I never claimed that "norms" are based on my personal beliefs.
     
stupendousman
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
When I was in high school, I had feathered permed hair, pink frost lipstick, blue eyeliner, and upturned collars. When I was in college I went for long straight hair, dark dark clothes, and red red lipstick. After college my wardrobe and hair choices changed again, and well, haven't changed much since.
Styles change. With occasional exceptions, the norms regarding gender specific grooming doesn't.

Short cropped hair, no make-up and a t-shirt has been the norm for teen boys and young men for probably 50 years. Not so young women. Again, that's not to say that someone has to conform to the norms. It's just when people choose to make such drastic changes, it's normally due to major changes in their mindset as well. It would be interesting to know why she decided she needed to "butch it up" when she previously chose to conform and look traditionally attractive in a feminine way. Could be she's suffering from some kind of gender identity confusion. Maybe not.

Though, I'm really not interested enough to waste her or my time with an e-mail she probably wouldn't both replying to.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
she previously chose to conform
I don't know about your childhood, but there was a lot I wasn't allowed to do until after I moved out. So "choosing" to conform might not be the most accurate statement.
     
Laminar
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:40 PM
 
Parents wouldn't let you pierce your navel?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:43 PM
 
My labia, actually.
     
besson3c
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
So it's your belief that statistically speaking, that there would not be more men with Rachel's current look than women?

I'm pretty sure I never claimed that "norms" are based on my personal beliefs.

This sounds like the same basis of your argument about "normal" and homosexuality... I think I'll pass on hashing this out with you, we both know it won't make any difference.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Could be she's suffering from some kind of gender identity confusion. Maybe not.
Is that your politically correct way of saying "gay?" Why beat around the bush (so to speak)?
     
olePigeon
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Jul 15, 2010, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
*useless drivel*
Over 20% of Americans unfortunately get their news from FOX News. If that number is meaningless to you, that means FOX has more viewership than CNN and NBC combined.

Somehow in your little world the media is liberal.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2010, 01:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
For a woman, yes.

Men also get their hair done and shave on a regular basis.

Good grooming isn't unnatural. It's a sign you take pride in your appearance.
Have you ever seen a woman who didn't pluck, wear makeup, or get their hair dyed, yet still looked feminine? If this person, and the one who is processed to hell and back are both "naturally feminine", then I posit your label is bereft of meaning.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 16, 2010 at 03:03 AM. )
     
stupendousman
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Jul 16, 2010, 06:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Is that your politically correct way of saying "gay?" Why beat around the bush (so to speak)?
There are a lot of gay people who make no attempt to appear to be a gender they are not. I'm pretty sure being gay does not require you to exhibit the behavior in question.

I guess it's possible that being gay has influenced Rachel's choices. Maybe she has developed some kind of complete gender identity confusion to the point where she really thinks she's a man inside and she not only has a same-sex attraction but feels that she must deny all evidence of her femininity for some reason. I guess it's possible, but there could well be other factors.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
Have you ever seen a woman who didn't pluck, wear makeup, or get their hair dyed, yet still looked feminine? If this person, and the one who is processed to hell and back are both "naturally feminine", then I posit your label is bereft of meaning.
I've seen very few women who didn't pluck, wear makeup, chose to get their hair cut really short and chose to wear clothing more suggesting that of a typical male's wardrobe who still looked feminine.

Rachel really didn't look all that "processed" in the past. Like I said, most people MEN AND WOMEN, engage in some type of grooming regimen. It takes much less effort for a woman to maintain a clean and feminine eyebrow appearance than it does for a man to continue to adopt a clean shaven look, for instance.
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 16, 2010, 08:11 AM
 
This is not even the most butch photo of Maddow on the internet.

On air, when she's working the job, she wears a feminine-cut suit, hair is gelled, and I'm sure there's some kind of subtle eyeliner/lip gloss going on. She's conforming within a spectrum. I'm sure off-air Beck and Olberman et al (pick your flavor) put on a t-shirt, wave away the makeup artist, and just chill.

That bleach-blonde look definitely looked processed... but it was also the sign of the times.

Let's discuss our favorite mascara.
     
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Jul 16, 2010, 08:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Rachel really didn't look all that "processed" in the past.
Show me an example of a well-known woman who you respect that doesn't look "processed".

*Most* people, in particular those in the public eye, are "processing" themselves to fit a particular image.
     
OldManMac
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Jul 16, 2010, 09:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
There are a lot of gay people who make no attempt to appear to be a gender they are not. I'm pretty sure being gay does not require you to exhibit the behavior in question.

I guess it's possible that being gay has influenced Rachel's choices. Maybe she has developed some kind of complete gender identity confusion to the point where she really thinks she's a man inside and she not only has a same-sex attraction but feels that she must deny all evidence of her femininity for some reason. I guess it's possible, but there could well be other factors.



I've seen very few women who didn't pluck, wear makeup, chose to get their hair cut really short and chose to wear clothing more suggesting that of a typical male's wardrobe who still looked feminine.

Rachel really didn't look all that "processed" in the past. Like I said, most people MEN AND WOMEN, engage in some type of grooming regimen. It takes much less effort for a woman to maintain a clean and feminine eyebrow appearance than it does for a man to continue to adopt a clean shaven look, for instance.
It's patently obvious that you don't get out much.
     
subego
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Jul 16, 2010, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I've seen very few women who didn't pluck, wear makeup, chose to get their hair cut really short and chose to wear clothing more suggesting that of a typical male's wardrobe who still looked feminine.
Yes. We get it. You don't think she looks feminine now. You didn't use the phrase "naturally feminine" to describe her appearance now.

What is being asked of you is how the phrase "naturally feminine" can be meaningfully applied to someone who has altered their natural appearance with chemicals and wax?

You keep on bringing up how men shave. Are you claiming a man without facial hair looks more "naturally masculine" too?
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Jul 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
 
This thread has dipped into levels of stupidity that are record lows for even the Poli Lounge.

I'm glad we've established that people only ever look like one random picture of themselves taken who-the-f knows when. I'm sure she looks just like that one photo every single day.

And why is the first photo supposedly so much better? Just proves that you could turn a mop upside down and some clueless guys would find it attractive simply because it resembles a thin pole with blonde hair.

Carry on.
     
screener
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Jul 16, 2010, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
It's patently obvious that you don't get out much.
Yeah, there always are the stupidest men posting under "inflated" handles.
     
besson3c
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Jul 17, 2010, 01:11 AM
 
Big Mac: did you take your cues from these guys?
     
stupendousman
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Jul 17, 2010, 10:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Show me an example of a well-known woman who you respect that doesn't look "processed".

*Most* people, in particular those in the public eye, are "processing" themselves to fit a particular image.
To some extent. I've already explained that. People take pride in the way they present themselves. Some basic grooming is no sign of any kind of irrational mindset. Going from the normal grooming habits of a women to that of a man, or investing in heavy plastic surgery, or wearing an inch of make-up - those all could be a sign that something's happened to a person mentally causing them to react by changing their personal appearance.

As far as "people only ever look like one random picture of themselves taken who-the-f knows when. I'm sure she looks just like that one photo every single day" goes, does anyone have a recent picture of Maddow where she doesn't come off looking masculine in comparison to how she looked previously?

...and really, do you guys with the personal attacks really think you are coming off as intelligent? The irony is thick....
     
stupendousman
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Jul 17, 2010, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
It's patently obvious that you don't get out much.
Wow...you really got me there!
     
turtle777
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Jul 17, 2010, 11:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
This thread has dipped into levels of stupidity that are record lows for even the Poli Lounge.
Stop encouraging Besson.

He might start even more threads like this.

-t
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 17, 2010, 12:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
something's happened to a person mentally causing them to react by changing their personal appearance.
Yeah, they mentally observed what type of person they were attracting, and what other type of person they wish they were attracting.

She apparently has fans. Why can't you let the free market determine what she looks like?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2010, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Stop encouraging Besson.

He might start even more threads like this.

-t
BWAHAHAHA.

You might want to check who started the thread again.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 17, 2010, 03:26 PM
 
I think turtle's implication was that besson's title has been usurped
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2010, 04:09 PM
 
That implication seems less than clear.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 17, 2010, 04:43 PM
 
yeah
     
stupendousman
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Jul 17, 2010, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Yeah, they mentally observed what type of person they were attracting, and what other type of person they wish they were attracting.

She apparently has fans. Why can't you let the free market determine what she looks like?
She can do whatever she likes. I'm not suggesting she should change her looks.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 17, 2010, 10:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Going from the normal grooming habits of a women to that of a man, or investing in heavy plastic surgery, or wearing an inch of make-up - those all could be a sign that something's happened to a person mentally causing them to react by changing their personal appearance.
Except she has done any of those three things. She just changed her hair style.
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2010, 06:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Going from the normal grooming habits of a women to that of a man, or investing in heavy plastic surgery, or wearing an inch of make-up - those all could be a sign that something's happened to a person mentally causing them to react by changing their personal appearance.
One of the things that happens to a person mentally which causes them to react with excessive makeup or plastic surgery is a lifetime of being indoctrinated with a definition of "naturally feminine" which has no basis in anything actually natural.

Or that cutting your hair short and wearing a t-shirt is valid grounds to question your mental stability.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 18, 2010, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
She can do whatever she likes. I'm not suggesting she should change her looks.
That sounds like backpedaling to me. What exactly are you suggesting? That she has a mental defect because she found a way to appeal to her customers?
     
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Jul 18, 2010, 12:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Going from the normal grooming habits of a women to that of a man, or investing in heavy plastic surgery, or wearing an inch of make-up - those all could be a sign that something's happened to a person mentally causing them to react by changing their personal appearance.
Would you consider breast implants to be in the same category as "heavy plastic surgery"?
     
stupendousman
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Jul 18, 2010, 02:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Except she has done any of those three things. She just changed her hair style.
If this were one of those "what is different about these two pictures" puzzles they gave out in grade school, you wouldn't get a passing grade.

Originally Posted by subego View Post
One of the things that happens to a person mentally which causes them to react with excessive makeup or plastic surgery is a lifetime of being indoctrinated with a definition of "naturally feminine" which has no basis in anything actually natural.
Excessive make-up and plastic surgery isn't the norm. It's not what a female normally does to groom themselves in a way which would be reasonable to their peers, anymore than cutting their hair really short and adopting a more masculine look is.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Would you consider breast implants to be in the same category as "heavy plastic surgery"?
Possibly. For instance, a woman who had a masectomy due to cancer who had breast implants would simply be trying to appear as a normal, average woman. Someone who got 42 DD's would be trying to compensate for something other than being normal and natural.

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
That sounds like backpedaling to me. What exactly are you suggesting? That she has a mental defect because she found a way to appeal to her customers?
Who says that's why she made the 180 turn in appearance?
     
subego
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Jul 18, 2010, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Excessive make-up and plastic surgery isn't the norm.
Hence it being qualified as "excessive".

What exactly is your point here?
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 18, 2010, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Who says that's why she made the 180 turn in appearance?
That sounds like backpedaling to me. What exactly are you suggesting?
     
stupendousman
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Jul 19, 2010, 06:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Hence it being qualified as "excessive".

What exactly is your point here?
I'm not the one who brought up too much make-up. It wasn't my "point."

I simply agreed that overuse likely signaled that person had negative issues effecting their mindset involving their appearance, the same way that someone going from wearing make-up highlighting their features in a way that mirrored most of their peers, then deciding to go in the direct opposite direction could.

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
That sounds like backpedaling to me. What exactly are you suggesting?
Backpedaling from what? You claimed she changed her appearance to "appeal to her customers." I asked how you knew this. How is that backpedaling?
( Last edited by stupendousman; Jul 19, 2010 at 06:57 AM. )
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jul 19, 2010, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
It wasn't my "point."
But what exactly is your "point?"
     
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Jul 19, 2010, 10:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
But what exactly is your "point?"
That's not stupendousman's MO.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
subego
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Jul 19, 2010, 01:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I'm not the one who brought up too much make-up.
Really? I'll be glad to quote the post wherein you introduce it.
     
stupendousman
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Jul 20, 2010, 06:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Really? I'll be glad to quote the post wherein you introduce it.
The "make-up" issue was actually brought up two pages back before I even added a post. You know, "lipstick", "processed". Are you really down to your last semantic argument?

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
But what exactly is your "point?"
I plainly stated my point a couple of pages back as well. If you don't have any arguments left, then just stop.
     
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Jul 20, 2010, 08:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Possibly. For instance, a woman who had a masectomy due to cancer who had breast implants would simply be trying to appear as a normal, average woman. Someone who got 42 DD's would be trying to compensate for something other than being normal and natural.
What about someone going from a B to a D?
     
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Jul 20, 2010, 08:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Who says that's why she made the 180 turn in appearance?
When talking about people making radical changes to their appearance, have you, or have you not, been talking about Maddow? If "not", why are you bringing it up in this thread?
     
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Jul 20, 2010, 09:14 AM
 
What's next? Pretending that any of the above hacks are the "leaders of the Democrat Party?" That's another lame tactic of the left, pretending media figures wield anything close to the same powers as elected officials.
If DailyKos is a "leader of the Democrat Party," I want more of him. Every candidate he's backed has lost excepting the President.

The difference between Kos and the rest of the names is that Kos has tried to actually play an active role in campaigns, to the point of being an active role in campaigns against Joe Lieberman. He campaigned for Lieberman's opponent. Didn't exactly work out the way he'd hoped.
( Last edited by vmarks; Jul 29, 2013 at 12:31 PM. )
If this post is in the Lounge forum, it is likely to be my own opinion, and not representative of the position of MacNN.com.

     
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Jul 20, 2010, 09:18 AM
 
Strictly speaking, it's not treason, at least as defined in the U.S. Constitution:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."

It's a bit ironic that Big Mac would expand his personal definition of treason to encompass those who he perceives as simply (as opposed to the above) violating the Constitution for political reasons, when the reason why "treason" is so narrowly defined in the U.S. is that the authors of the Constitution wanted to avoid, in their view of history, the English practice of using the charge as a personal or political bludgeon.
( Last edited by SpaceMonkey; Jul 20, 2010 at 09:29 AM. )

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Jul 20, 2010, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
What about someone going from a B to a D?
Possible I suppose.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
When talking about people making radical changes to their appearance, have you, or have you not, been talking about Maddow? If "not", why are you bringing it up in this thread?
I have. What are you arguing against?

The quote you have listed simply asks why the someone would claim that Maddow changed her looks 180 because she was trying to "appeal to her customers" when I've seen no evidence that she made it for that reason.
     
subego
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Jul 20, 2010, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
The "make-up" issue was actually brought up two pages back before I even added a post. You know, "lipstick", "processed". Are you really down to your last semantic argument?
By my guest to answer the issues I had with your analogy, or the direct questions posed to you which remain unaddressed.

Until that time, your accusation of me arguing semantics is laughable.
( Last edited by subego; Jul 20, 2010 at 03:12 PM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Jul 20, 2010, 02:46 PM
 
So. We've learned that you're insane if you wear too much makeup, or if you wear none. Changing from a B to a D doesn't mean you're insane. What about D to B? We need to make a checklist.

Where does the middle ground occur? A woman's choices appear to be either harlot, lesbian, or June Cleaver.

Lesbians wear aprons and cook brownies too you know.
     
besson3c
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Jul 20, 2010, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
So. We've learned that you're insane if you wear too much makeup, or if you wear none. Changing from a B to a D doesn't mean you're insane. What about D to B? We need to make a checklist.

Where does the middle ground occur? A woman's choices appear to be either harlot, lesbian, or June Cleaver.

Lesbians wear aprons and cook brownies too you know.

I think that stupendousman's Salty-esque coming out party is imminent.
     
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Jul 20, 2010, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
So. We've learned that you're insane if you wear too much makeup, or if you wear none. Changing from a B to a D doesn't mean you're insane. What about D to B? We need to make a checklist.

Where does the middle ground occur? A woman's choices appear to be either harlot, lesbian, or June Cleaver.

Lesbians wear aprons and cook brownies too you know.
I've learned this from stupendousman:

If you're a woman and don't choose to look like the photo below, you must be insane:


(of course, there's speculation that Coulter might not have been completely sane with her self-image and may have chosen to have her breasts augmented ... but that's probably OK with stupendousman ... anything that makes a woman look *more* like the male accepted image of "woman" *must* be sane)
     
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Jul 20, 2010, 07:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
By my guest to answer the issues I had with your analogy, or the direct questions posed to you which remain unaddressed.

Until that time, your accusation of me arguing semantics is laughable.
Which questions have went unanswered? I see the same circular arguments and requests but not much really in response to anything I actually posted.
     
stupendousman
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Jul 20, 2010, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
So. We've learned that you're insane if you wear too much makeup, or if you wear none. Changing from a B to a D doesn't mean you're insane. What about D to B? We need to make a checklist.

Where does the middle ground occur? A woman's choices appear to be either harlot, lesbian, or June Cleaver.

Lesbians wear aprons and cook brownies too you know.
You've learned that? You've got quite an imagination. I never once mentioned insanity. Nice strawman you've constructed there.
     
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Jul 20, 2010, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman
You've learned that? You've got quite an imagination. I never once mentioned insanity. Nice strawman you've constructed there.
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
...I'm curious if it was some kind of mental illness...
Not the same wording, no, but roughly the same intent behind both terms in this situation.

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