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Grrr · Oct 22, 2003, 04:59 PM

I kinda do..

Only got my 1ghz 12" pn on Monday. And it's great, so don't get me wrong here.. But I must admit, I'd prolly have got myself a 12" G4 iBook instead and saved myself a considerable wedge of cash had they of both been available at the same time.

hardcat1970 · Oct 22, 2003, 05:08 PM

i bought my powerbook on last friday, and i haven't got a chance to play with it until today. Well, you know they come up with the new g4 ibook this morning, but after i check with the specs, i have no regret of my purchase.

the new ibook only up to 640 mb, the powerbook 1.25 gb. That's the big difference for me.

the new ibook can't use the dvi output option. Again, powerbook does. I use LCD all day long, at home (17" studio display) and at work (dell at work btw) it's wonderful to connect to it with pure digital connection.

the powerbook case is much better compared to the ibook, unless it has a new material. I hate the last ibook's look. the original whiter ibook looks much better.

C-Bear · Oct 22, 2003, 05:14 PM

If you like a much nicer screen to work on, be thankful for your 12" Powerbook.

AssassyN · Oct 22, 2003, 05:21 PM

If I wouldn't have traded my 12" PB for a TiBook, I'd be a bit irritated today as well. Yea, DVI-out is nice, an extra 128MB of RAM is helpful, an extra 200Mhz is swell also...but there's a big price difference.

It doesn't make the 12" PB *any less* of an awesome machine, it just makes it less of a value.

threestain · Oct 22, 2003, 05:52 PM

Assassyn - why did you swap your 12" for a TiBook? Welcome to the clan, but you've done a lot of switching, no?

Cadaver · Oct 22, 2003, 05:54 PM

Perhaps...

But don't forget it's a different G4 in the 12" PB vs. the iBook.

800MHz G4, 256K L2 cache
1GHz G4, 512K L2 cache

Plus, the 12" PB has better support for external monitors, a SuperDrive option, DVI video, smaller/lighter chassis, better keyboard, expandable to 1.25GB RAM (vs. 640MB), bigger HD options.

Whether all that is worth the price difference is up to you. Choice is good.

dtkirkpa · Oct 22, 2003, 06:01 PM

I'm happy with the PB over the iBook. I didn't jump on the rev A's for lack of DVI. The additional cache, increased memory, and superdrive are all important to me also. I think that the current PB can function as a mobile desktop without a lot of extra baggage. I'm not sure that the same can be said of the iBook. Given the size of HDs these days, backup to DVD is more practical than CD, and so the superdrive is the way to go if you want to be truly mobile.

Having said all that, if your budget can't afford the PB, the iBook upgrades certainly make them more attractive.

AssassyN · Oct 22, 2003, 06:03 PM

threestain, see my post in the Lounge (search for "Apple-related job")...it hadta do w/ a digital video editing job I just landed, thus the need for extra space for FCP4 projects.

But at any rate, the iBook is perfectly capable of handling 1.12GIGS of RAM...it now uses the same RAM as the 12" PB and so if you can afford the 1GIG SODIMM, it'll fit either machine.

And heck, with the money you'd save, buy yourself an external FW DVD-RW & get +RW support at the same time, and toss a FW HD in to boot & still have cash leftover.

Grrr · Oct 22, 2003, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by C-Bear:
If you like a much nicer screen to work on, be thankful for your 12" Powerbook.

I thought the screens were the same? As it happens, I am typing this on my old iBook 600, and the screens seem very similar to me.. Except the iBooks screen has faded a bit after 2 years of use.

Anyway, Like I say, my new 12" PowerBook is great. It's absolutely faultless. But even the (admittedly useful) extra screen option is a bit of a no brainer considering the spanning hack that works so well on iBooks (I use the same hack to great effect on my eMac to get dual screen support).

Really, the specs are so close now. Yet the price difference is not so close.. And to add insult to injury the new iBooks are released only days after many people finally got their new 12" PowerBooks. Just kinda made me grumble a bit..

Still, my new 12" pb is a great little Mac.. No doubt about that. But it sure is tempting to call it a '12" G4 AliBook+'

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 06:54 PM

The G4 in these iBooks looks to be the previous PowerBook G4 (256 KB level 2 cache). Didn't the PowerBooks need 1MB of additional level 3 cache to get them to perform well?
The G4 iBooks have no level 3 cache.

This could be a modified older G4 PowerBook logic board and the older design Motorola G4. Certainly this would be cheaper to produce than a 200 MHz bus logic board for the brand new IBM G3.

Have to wait for the bench tests then.

spiderbyte · Oct 22, 2003, 08:30 PM

It's the keyboard. The iBook keyboard is pretty sad. The Al book keyboard is terrific.

////

\\\\ spiderbyte

toans · Oct 22, 2003, 08:37 PM

I do...but I've got a RevA 12 inch so the new iBook is basically as quick..give or take 67 mhz.

I don't know about the keyboard on the iBook, I've never used one...but I do really like the keyboard on my PB.

I was thinking of selling to get a 12 inch iBook....but one of the reasons I bought a notebook was so I could get out of the upgrade trap ( I used to by new components for my PC at least every month). And well...it wouldn' be an upgrade as such..but I could do with the extra cash I'd have from selling my PB.

h00ligan · Oct 22, 2003, 09:06 PM

at this point it is more likely you would lose money on the deal.. or break dead even.. imho

toans · Oct 22, 2003, 09:11 PM

I can get the new iBook 12inch for $1700 AUD.

My PB has superdrive...I woulda thought it'd be worth more than that?

Cadaver · Oct 22, 2003, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Grrr:
Anyway, Like I say, my new 12" PowerBook is great. It's absolutely faultless. But even the (admittedly useful) extra screen option is a bit of a no brainer considering the spanning hack that works so well on iBooks (I use the same hack to great effect on my eMac to get dual screen support).

No word yet if the spanning hack will work on the iBook G4s, so I wouldn't count on it just yet.

Please remember, choice is good.

AssassyN · Oct 22, 2003, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
The G4 in these iBooks looks to be the previous PowerBook G4 (256 KB level 2 cache). Didn't the PowerBooks need 1MB of additional level 3 cache to get them to perform well?
The G4 iBooks have no level 3 cache.

This doesn't exactly effect this discussion as the 12" PBs NEVER had L3 cache, whereas the old 15" PBs and 17" PBs did.

ngrundy · Oct 22, 2003, 09:30 PM

AssassyN goes through computer faster than a bush fire goes through trees

escher · Oct 22, 2003, 09:32 PM

IMO, the Rev.A 12-inch PB was nothing more than a metal-clad G4 iBook. But now the iBook is nothing more than a plastic-clad Rev.A 12-inch PowerBook. Despite the great value, I'll pass.

Originally posted by AssassyN:
It doesn't make the 12" PB *any less* of an awesome machine, it just makes it less of a value.

I think that sums it up perfectly. I'll be paying the extra $400 (educational price for iBook is $999 v. $1399 for PB) for the 12-inch PowerBook. The extra 200Mhz (plus breaking the Ghz barrier), extra 128MB memory, and DVI-out are the deal-clenchers for me.

Escher

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 09:34 PM

Well then how does the first gen. 12" PowerBook w/256 KB level 2 cache compare with the current 12" PowerBook with 512 KB level 2 cache?

Mallrat · Oct 22, 2003, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
Well then how does the first gen. 12" PowerBook w/256 KB level 2 cache compare with the current 12" PowerBook with 512 KB level 2 cache?

I feel like I dont' know which computer I want. I want a superdrive, but at the same time I don't feel like paying 1800 to get one, where I got get the low end ibook G4 and buy an exteranl dVD later and use another burning software besides iDVd.

TheIceMan · Oct 22, 2003, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by spiderbyte:
It's the keyboard. The iBook keyboard is pretty sad. The Al book keyboard is terrific.

//// \\\\ spiderbyte

YES, I love the AL PowerBook's keyboard. I HATE the kyboard on the iBooks. It feels really "cheap" and flimsy. I think if the outer casing is fixed to where it doesn't scratch easily and they adopt the keyboard (in white of course) of the PowerBooks, I would be on the NEW iBooks like flies on doodoo.

Scooterboy · Oct 22, 2003, 10:59 PM

Is there an external, iDVD supported FW Superdrive?

x user · Oct 22, 2003, 11:19 PM

I'm perfectly happy that I just spent $1700 on my PB 12". The DVI out is useless to me, the PB name holds no particular pride for me. Looks don't matter that much, but the slightly smaller size, speed advantage and keyboard comfort made it a easy choice for the upgrade from my iBook 800. The iBook G4 800 doesn't offer that those same advantages, one out of three doesn't cut it for me.

C-Bear · Oct 23, 2003, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Grrr:
I thought the screens were the same?

I don't know the specs, but I have used both side-by-side and by my impressions the iBooks' (both 12" and 14") screens were very obviously of diminished crispness compared to anything from the Powerbook line.

If that iBook 14" had a screen as nice as the one on the PB 15" (insert white spot joke here) I've ordered, I might well be tempted to change-up.

As it stands, I'm surprised the difference in screens between the two lines isn't being discussed more in these new iBook versus Powerbook threads.

Somebody please enlighten me if I'm missing something.

AssassyN · Oct 23, 2003, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
Well then how does the first gen. 12" PowerBook w/256 KB level 2 cache compare with the current 12" PowerBook with 512 KB level 2 cache?

I wrote an in-depth review comparing the Rev. A 12" PB and Rev. B 12" PB here awhile back...search for "comparison" in the PowerBook forums.

ligux · Oct 23, 2003, 07:44 AM

Already bought my 12'' PB, haven�t received it yet and then this.
Though I have to admit that there is no way to work with music/video programs with such a few RAM, I must convinced myself that I have done it right. But that huge difference in price HURTS VERY MUCH!!!!!!.
Apple should realised how bad they treat their consumers. It�s a shame.
At least they could give us free (with no post charge or anything else) the fu...ng Panther.

C-Bear · Oct 24, 2003, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by C-Bear:
I don't know the specs, but I have used both side-by-side and by my impressions the iBooks' (both 12" and 14") screens were very obviously of diminished crispness compared to anything from the Powerbook line.

If that iBook 14" had a screen as nice as the one on the PB 15" (insert white spot joke here) I've ordered, I might well be tempted to change-up.

As it stands, I'm surprised the difference in screens between the two lines isn't being discussed more in these new iBook versus Powerbook threads.

Somebody please enlighten me if I'm missing something.

Well, I went and enlightened myself and I owe an apology to anyone who read the post above.

I stopped by an Applestore today and did a custom claibration of the iBooks and the Powerbooks, leveld the playing field, and the up-shot is that the iBs and the PBs are very close in screen quality. Indeed, the employee I spoke to (who knew his stuff) said he was 99.9 percent certain in believing that the iBs and the PBs used the same screens. I suppose the difference in graphics cards might explain why the PBs are still a teensy bit sharper, but man, you calibrate them and it's real close.