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About Justice in America (Page 2)
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Spliffdaddy
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May 26, 2004, 12:13 AM
 
I think some folks got a bit sidetracked.

You don't have to choose a side in order to answer a question.

There are more blacks in prison than there should be - based on their percentage of the population.

That's the issue at hand. The question is "why"? You don't have to place blame in order to answer the question.

It's fair to say that lack of money seems to be the common denominator when it comes to incarceration. You can suggest that the lack of money was the cause of the defendant's conviction. I'll agree, but not for the reason you think. Lack of money was a contributing factor in the commission of the crime, more often than not. If that black man was legally employed and earning a living he probably wouldn't be attracted to the lure of selling crack. You won't see wealthy people stealing cars or robbing convenience stores because they're broke and desperate. Wealthy folks typically commit 'white-collar' crime...that is, nonviolent and fraudulent scams. Nonviolent crimes aren't likely to land you in jail. These are well-planned crimes that almost never involve physical confrontation and are not usually carried out in desperation. Wealthy or poor, you probably aren't gonna do much jail time for swindling and scamming.

So the broke desperate defendants are the ones committing the violent crimes that have long jail terms - and they're also the ones least likely to be able to afford better-than-average counsel.

The solution is simple. Make the day last 36 hours so the single parents can have the time to take an interest in their child's education and well-being. Parents that don't have time to do what they need to do is the reason our jails stay full.

Why do black folks have so many single parent households? There's a good question. I think it's a cultural thing. The answer is out there somewhere.
     
Orion27
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May 26, 2004, 07:31 AM
 
Let's not be glib. We can point to studies that show that the implementation of the welfare state splt the black family. Out of wedlock births rose proportionaly with the increase in welfare payments. Historically, black entreprenurship was the economic backbone of the black community. Interestingly, quotas and affirmative action has centered black employment around government institutions and corporations geared to the affirmative action agenda. Black women are a more compliant workforce. The matriarchal centered welfare and affirmative action agendas, coupled with leftist propaganda that the black condition is entirely the fault of a racist society has castrated and marginalised the black male. ( and to a lesser extent white males with terms like metrosexual)

Now I'm no Pychologist, but black men, and men in general are portrayed rather poorly in the media. The rise of gangsta has interestingly, not glorified the welfare system, but has objectified women and exaggerates black male chauvinism and independence. Violence against women in rap or gangsta is surrogate violence against society as a hole. Traditional long term strategies for the the accumulation of weath does not play well here. Money equals power and the quicker it be had the better. You can fill in the blanks as to how this is accomplished, usually illegally. Put the black male back in the family, where his contribution is needed and wanted would go a long way in establishing some stability in the culture..
( Last edited by Orion27; May 26, 2004 at 10:55 AM. )
     
Shaddim
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May 26, 2004, 11:11 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I'm thinking that the true problem is single parent households.

The biggest distinction you see between convicts and 'free' citizens is the fact that a majority of the convicts were raised by one parent.

Having one parent instead of two seems to work in lockstep with whether or not the child's education will be satisfactory or not.

Lack of education means fewer opportunities in the job market.

Lack of opportunity breeds desperation and the creation of opportunity where none existed, sometimes known as 'crime' - but not always.

The fact that a disproportionate amount of blacks are incarcerated should mean a disproportionate amount of blacks are raised in single parent households, as well...and they are.
agree 100%, well said.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
UNTeMac
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May 26, 2004, 12:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
And for future reference, I wouldn't quote anything from Air America either.
Well then we can leave out Hannity and Rush too, yes?
"This show is filmed before a live studio audience as soon as someone removes that dead guy!" - Stephen Colbert
     
Orion27
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May 26, 2004, 02:17 PM
 
Originally posted by UNTiMac:
Well then we can leave out Hannity and Rush too, yes?
I saw no reference to either in this thread. Also notice the silence here since the truth was spoken.
     
itai195
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May 26, 2004, 02:24 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
And for future reference, I wouldn't quote anything from Air America either.
It's just a statistic. And I've heard it before, so it doesn't sound like they're making anything up.
     
Orion27
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May 26, 2004, 02:37 PM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
It's just a statistic. And I've heard it before, so it doesn't sound like they're making anything up.
I didn't say or imply anything was made up> Submit your statistic and source but I wouldn't consider Air America a reliable source for obvious reasons.
     
itai195
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May 26, 2004, 02:49 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
I didn't say or imply anything was made up> Submit your statistic and source but I wouldn't consider Air America a reliable source for obvious reasons.
The DoJ

In 2001, an estimated 2.7% of adults in the U.S. had served time in prison, up from 1.8% in 1991 and 1.3% in 1974.
2.7% is about 1 in 37.

I understand being skeptical of a biased source, but they don't usually make up statistics. Because stats can be skewed and misrepresented to prove nearly anything, you don't often have to stoop that low.
     
Orion27
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May 26, 2004, 03:27 PM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
The DoJ

2.7% is about 1 in 37.

I understand being skeptical of a biased source, but they don't usually make up statistics. Because stats can be skewed and misrepresented to prove nearly anything, you don't often have to stoop that low.
Listen, I did the math long before Saad and Angaq0k. There were several mentions of Air America throughout this thread. I poked a stick in their eye about their sources. Air America of all places. If Air America said the sky was blue I wouldn't believe them and stick my head out the door to look. Would you use Air America as a source? I wouldn't, just as I would not use Rush Limbaugh. The statistic may be correct but ones argument becomes discolored and a turn off. Not only is Air America not credible, they have have a bought and paid for agenda. It's not even marketable. This thread was just a hit piece and as soon as their agenda ( do not read statistic ) was challenged the muggers disappeared.
     
dcolton
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May 26, 2004, 03:34 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
Listen, I did the math long before Saad and Angaq0k. There were several mentions of Air America throughout this thread. I poked a stick in their eye about their sources. Air America of all places. If Air America said the sky was blue I wouldn't believe them and stick my head out the door to look. Would you use Air America as a source? I wouldn't, just as I would not use Rush Limbaugh. The statistic may be correct but ones argument becomes discolored and a turn off. Not only is Air America not credible, they have have a bought and paid for agenda. It's not even marketable. This thread was just a hit piece and as soon as their agenda ( do not read statistic ) was challenged the muggers disappeared.
     
angaq0k  (op)
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May 26, 2004, 04:16 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
Listen, I did the math long before Saad and Angaq0k. There were several mentions of Air America throughout this thread. I poked a stick in their eye about their sources. Air America of all places. If Air America said the sky was blue I wouldn't believe them and stick my head out the door to look. Would you use Air America as a source? I wouldn't, just as I would not use Rush Limbaugh. The statistic may be correct but ones argument becomes discolored and a turn off. Not only is Air America not credible, they have have a bought and paid for agenda. It's not even marketable. This thread was just a hit piece and as soon as their agenda ( do not read statistic ) was challenged the muggers disappeared.
I think you are misrepresenting my posts here.

I am glad you did the math long before me. Fine. Good for you.

I explained in lenght how it all started for me, and how I felt about such affirmations (especially the 1/37). You being unable to read and load your hate on me is unfair, for I did not express any of my feelings in this thread. Air America was the where I heard the 1/37. Period. All the others stats were documented and unlike you who claim to ahve done all calculations, I provided my sources, which you could have read, and have nothing to do with Air America.

I am sorry if I offended you, but that was not the goal, and I did apologize for the misunderstanding this created.

You calling me names the way you do right now does not help much, especially considering I have never done so. I do understand very well that this seemed inflammatory, but certainly no less than anti-Muslim threads and posts we have read in these pages. If you are to be consistent with yourself, you should certainly be able to ask for the same consideration you ask from me about America than should have Muslim.

When you play a game with tough rules, make sure you play with the same rules.

And on top of that, whenever I generalized over America and U.S. citizens, I did specify, if not apologize for the large brush I unfairly used in my posts, and about whom I was targetting.

That is also the reason why I have not posted any further in this thread, since it was presented inappropriately, which I apologized for.

I also have a life outside these threads.
( Last edited by angaq0k; May 26, 2004 at 04:21 PM. )
"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
     
itai195
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May 26, 2004, 04:30 PM
 
Originally posted by Orion27:
Listen, I did the math long before Saad and Angaq0k. There were several mentions of Air America throughout this thread. I poked a stick in their eye about their sources. Air America of all places. If Air America said the sky was blue I wouldn't believe them and stick my head out the door to look. Would you use Air America as a source?
Almost everyone here uses biased sources. Would I use Air America as a source of scientific info? Probably not, but I would possibly borrow a statistic like this one, which I knew I'd heard elsewhere. Most people here do not have time to go to an unbiased source for information, so they end up parroting arguments they've heard previously. Also, there are few unbiased sources of information available anyway. As Simey pointed out in a thread several weeks ago, we can't even trust government-sponsored scientific research to be free of political bias.

The problem with this thread isn't the source of information, but rather the way in which it was posted.
     
Saad
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May 26, 2004, 10:34 PM
 
Listen, I did the math long before Saad and Angaq0k. There were several mentions of Air America throughout this thread. I poked a stick in their eye about their sources. Air America of all places. If Air America said the sky was blue I wouldn't believe them and stick my head out the door to look. Would you use Air America as a source? I wouldn't, just as I would not use Rush Limbaugh. The statistic may be correct but ones argument becomes discolored and a turn off. Not only is Air America not credible, they have have a bought and paid for agenda. It's not even marketable. This thread was just a hit piece and as soon as their agenda ( do not read statistic ) was challenged the muggers disappeared.
Cite a specific example of Air America Radio lying outright on a statistic. Personally, I would rather rely on (drug-free and not stoned/addicted) Air America Radio than Rush Limbaugh.
( Last edited by Saad; May 26, 2004 at 11:24 PM. )
     
Spliffdaddy
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May 26, 2004, 11:26 PM
 
Originally posted by Saad:
Cite a specific example of Air America Radio lying outright on a statistic. Personally, I would rather rely on (drug-free and not stoned/addicted) Air America Radio than Rush Limbaugh.
Of course you would.

That's why you're a liberal.
     
Saad
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May 26, 2004, 11:32 PM
 
Fair enough. I do not, however, believe that Limbaugh produces statistics on a whim.
     
dcolton
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Jun 14, 2004, 12:16 AM
 
My name is Angq0k. I have nothing better to do than look for anti-American news and post it on MacNN so I can feel good about being a canuck
     
 
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