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CBS obtains photos showing alleged abuse (Page 4)
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Originally posted by dcolton:
How many innocent civillians do terrorists have to kill before you people open up your eyes and realize we a dealing with pure evil. How many 'death' celebrations do we have to endure before Muslims and ME nations say 'ENOUGH'?
We didn't fly planes into the world trade center.
We dont tell brainwashed kids that if they strap a bomb to their back and kill a westerner, they will go to heaven and recieve a bunch of virgins (Hmm...sex driven suicide).
Our policies are in the interest of the world. If it weren't for the US, countries like France and Italy would be the terrorist's bitch, bending over and taking it for the well being of the International community.
We don't negotiate with killers. That is out policy. We fart like men and refuse to let any evil entity, whether they act in the name of Allah or not, to stick anything up our arse.
Well, like always, you see only one side, the side that is represented in your media, but that is to be expected, as the things your own terrorists do is topsecret. CIA, and diverse paramilitary organizations used terroristic means to ensure that a US-friendly dictatorship comes into power, throughout the arabic world and southamerica and parts of asia for the last 60 years.
Your secret organizations, private paramilitary and state-owned-paramilitary organizations have organized massacres and rebellions, asassinated politicians, etc... in order to bring a government to power that opens the markets to US-products, and espescially in order to gain special access to ressources.
The dictatorships they installed, financed, and supported/trained military suppress their own people, so that no other political force establishes that could topple the current government and put a stop to the sellout of the country's ressources to the USA.
And even when that somehow succeeds against all odds, the new government is not accepted by the USA, and says the new government is an evil, illegal one, and imposes sanctions upon it, which is not a small thing as every allie of the USA copies that position and does the same.
What a surprise, that someone dares to hit back?
So, from the point of view of the arabic world and parts of southamerica and parts of asia, the USA is the biggest terrorist ever. What happened in 9/11 is an attack on the financing infrastructure of that terrorist as well as the planning headquarter of the terrorist-organizations, the WTC and the pentagon.
Sure, they could have used military planes to throw bombs onto them like the US does, but they didn't have that technology.
Taliesin
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Originally posted by dcolton:
How many innocent civillians do terrorists have to kill before you people open up your eyes and realize we a dealing with pure evil.
From here:
LONDON (Reuters) - Photos of U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners drew international condemnation on Friday, prompting the stark conclusion that the U.S. campaign to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis is a lost cause.
"This is the straw that broke the camel's back for America," said Abdel-Bari Atwan, editor of the Arab newspaper Al Quds Al Arabi. "The liberators are worse than the dictators."
"They have not just lost the hearts and minds of Iraqis but all the Third World and the Arab countries," he told Reuters.
[...]
The pictures showed U.S. troops smiling, posing, laughing or giving the thumbs-up sign as naked, male Iraqi prisoners were stacked in a pyramid or positioned to simulate sex acts with one another.
[...]
"Nobody underestimates how wrong this is," Blair's spokesman told reporters. "Actions of this kind are in no way condoned by the coalition."
The publicity could not have been worse in the Arab world with the sexual humiliation depicted in the pictures particularly shocking.
"That really, really is the worst atrocity," Atwan said. "It affects the honor and pride of Muslim people. It is better to kill them than sexually abuse them."
[...]
From here:
[...]
The scandal has also brought to light the growing and largely unregulated role of private contractors in the interrogation of detainees.
According to lawyers for some of the soldiers, they claimed to be acting in part under the instruction of mercenary interrogators hired by the Pentagon.
US military investigators discovered the photographs, which include images of a hooded prisoner with wires fixed to his body, and nude inmates piled in a human pyramid.
The pictures, which were obtained by an American TV network, also show a dog attacking a prisoner and other inmates being forced to simulate sex with each other. It is thought the abuses took place in November and December last year.
The pictures from Abu Ghraib prison have shocked the US army.
Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations for the US military in Iraq, expressed his embarrassment and regret for what had happened. He told the CBS current affairs programme 60 Minutes II: "If we can't hold ourselves up as an example of how to treat people with dignity and respect, we can't ask that other nations do that to our soldiers."
Gen Kimmitt said the investigation began in January when an American soldier reported the abuse and turned over evidence that included photographs. "That soldier said: 'There are some things going on here that I can't live with'."
[...]
Lawyers for the soldiers argue they are being made scapegoats for a rogue military prison system in which mercenaries give orders without legal accountability.
A military report into the Abu Ghraib case - parts of which were made available to the Guardian - makes it clear that private contractors were supervising interrogations in the prison, which was notorious for torture and executions under Saddam Hussein.
One civilian contractor was accused of raping a young male prisoner but has not been charged because military law has no jurisdiction over him.
[...]
But this is the first time the privatisation of interrogation and intelligence-gathering has come to light. The investigation names two US contractors, CACI International Inc and the Titan Corporation, for their involvement in Abu Ghraib.
[...]
According to the military report on Abu Ghraib, both played an important role at the prison.
At one point, the investigators say: "A CACI instructor was terminated because he al lowed and/or instructed MPs who were not trained in interrogation techniques to facilitate interrogations by setting conditions which were neither authorised [nor] in accordance with applicable regulations/policy."
Colonel Jill Morgenthaler, speaking for central command, told the Guardian: "One contractor was originally included with six soldiers, accused for his treatment of the prisoners, but we had no jurisdiction over him. It was left up to the contractor on how to deal with him."
She did not specify the accusation facing the contractor, but according to several sources with detailed knowledge of the case, he raped an Iraqi inmate in his mid-teens.
[...]
"We know that CACI and Titan corporations have provided interrogators and that they have in fact conducted interrogations on behalf of the US and have interacted the military police guards at the prison," he said.
"I think it creates a laissez faire environment that is completely inappropriate. If these individuals engaged in crimes against an Iraq national - who has jurisdiction over such a crime?"
"It's insanity," said Robert Baer, a former CIA agent, who has examined the case, and is concerned about the private contractors' free-ranging role. "These are rank amateurs and there is no legally binding law on these guys as far as I could tell. Why did they let them in the prison?"
[...]
From here
"They act like they're God's gift to combat operations" complained one soldier to me, "Swanning around with weapons and equipment every bit as powerful as anything in our armoury, but without any of the legal_ framework that we have to work within. They're rude, aggressive and to be honest, their attitudes piss us guys off so I dread to think how the Iraqis view them".
And the Mercs are even hurting our army, from here:
In the post-9/11 world, demand for the commandos is not only soaring within the military. Private firms and government organizations - including the CIA - are luring away troops with bigger salaries.
"It is a very lucrative opportunity right now for special operations folks to get out and take very high-paying jobs" with private security firms, says General Brown. A 20-year veteran leaving Special Operations receives about $23,000 in retirement pay, but can earn $100,000 to $200,000 in private industry, military officials say.
With no end to the demand in sight, the military must carefully allocate SOF while increasing their ranks. To fill the current gap, it is accepting added risks with less experienced forces.
[...]
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
--Friedrich Nietzsche
Our soldiers, on the whole, are not monsters. The mercs we hired, and thus we, are.
Some recommendations from off the top of my head: - Cut back on the use of mercs in Iraq as much as possible. I don't know if a draft is preferable to mercs (a guy disgruntled to be there likely won't behave much better), but something must be done.
- Turn the mercs accused of crimes in Iraq over to Iraqi courts. That seems to be the natural jurisdiction here, no?
- Get Iraqi guards in the prisons asap. Until then, allow for Iraqi oversight/observers. Upon turnover, keep American oversight/observers around to prevent possible corruption.
- Quickly try those accused, being careful to avoid the appearance of shielding those who are obviously guilty.
I don't know if even that will be enough.
BlackGriffen
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Originally posted by Nicko:
One question:
How many people (American or not) have to die before the policies of your government are considered wrong?
For convenience you may round up to the nearest thousand.
How many Americans have to die at the hands of foreigners before you acknowledge the responsibility of this government to take whatever action needed to pre-emptively deal with terrorists and rogue nations?
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Originally posted by Joshua:
Well, if nothing else, this thread shows one big difference between Americans and Saddam: when an American in Iraq commits a human rights abuse, the rest of the world actually gives a ****.
When Saddam did the same thing the frogs and krauts looked the other way. Funny that.
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
When Saddam did the same thing the frogs and krauts looked the other way. Funny that.
What are you saying? That it's okay for us to do it too?
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From Amnesty International
Our extensive research in Iraq suggests that this is not an isolated incident. It is not enough for the USA to react only once images have hit the television screens".
Amnesty International has received frequent reports of torture or other ill-treatment by Coalition Forces during the past year. Detainees have reported being routinely subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment during arrest and detention. Many have told Amnesty International that they were tortured and ill-treated by US and UK troops during interrogation. Methods often reported include prolonged sleep deprivation; beatings; prolonged restraint in painful positions, sometimes combined with exposure to loud music; prolonged hooding; and exposure to bright lights. Virtually none of the allegations of torture or ill-treatment has been adequately investigated by the authorities.
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
When Saddam did the same thing the frogs and krauts looked the other way. Funny that.
Like the U.S. government never did?
Ever?
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"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
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"In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms."
- George W. Bush, March 17th 2003
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
When Saddam did the same thing the frogs and krauts looked the other way. Funny that.
What do amphibious creatures and edible plants have to do with torture? Or is someone's bigotry showing through?
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Originally posted by Ayelbourne:
"In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms."
- George W. Bush, March 17th 2003
Well spotted!
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If anything will lose the war for the US and the UK, this is it:
The publicity could not have been worse in the Arab world with the sexual humiliation depicted in the pictures particularly shocking.
"That really, really is the worst atrocity," Atwan said. "It affects the honor and pride of Muslim people. It is better to kill them than sexually abuse them."
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But it's OK for Muslims to string up non-Muslims on a bridge and burn them? We should have nuked them. Then there would be no complaints.
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Originally posted by Ayelbourne:
"In a free Iraq, there will be no more wars of aggression against your neighbors, no more poison factories, no more executions of dissidents, no more torture chambers and rape rooms."
- George W. Bush, March 17th 2003
God knows it's official US policy to torture prisoners!
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Looks like the British troops are joining in now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm
The Ministry of Defence has launched an investigation into allegations that British soldiers have been pictured torturing an Iraqi prisoner.
The photographs, obtained by the Daily Mirror newspaper, show a suspected thief being beaten and urinated on.
All these occurrences are so ****ing hypocritical.
Bastards.
This is NOT going to go down well AT ALL. Especially considering the honour of the Muslim people.
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Originally posted by Troll:
What do amphibious creatures and edible plants have to do with torture? Or is someone's bigotry showing through?
The spineless Frogs and gutless Krauts wanted to keep the status quo. That meant supporting Saddam and looking the other way while he officially killed those who opposed him.
Too bad the vermin French and Germans still exist. We should have let them fight to the death instead of wasting our young men saving that worthless Continent.
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Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Looks like the British troops are joining in now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm
All these occurrences are so ****ing hypocritical.
Bastards.
This is NOT going to go down well AT ALL. Especially considering the honour of the Muslim people.
The Muslim people have no honor. What a joke!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
The Muslim people have no honor. What a joke!!!!!!!
Every post of yours is a joke.
Ass.
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Thanks for proving my point, worthless Muslim supporter. Let's hope there's more torture!
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So bad=south? thought so...
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Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Looks like the British troops are joining in now:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3675215.stm
All these occurrences are so ****ing hypocritical.
Bastards.
This is NOT going to go down well AT ALL. Especially considering the honour of the Muslim people.
Hmm. I just looked at the BBC link and the Mirror story. That's mighty coincidental timing, don't you think? Right after the US story BING! Here is one from the UK.
It's probably a good idea to keep your skepticism radar operating. It would be very easy to fake such pictures. A little army surplus clothing, a hood, no faces, a little S & M, anonymous delivery, publication in an anti-war tabloid . . .
Remember, there is a real war going on, and a propaganda one too. The US story looks real -- there have been arrests. But let's wait on this British story.
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
Too bad the vermin French and Germans still exist. We should have let them fight to the death instead of wasting our young men saving that worthless Continent.
You joined the World War II (which happened 50 years ago) because you were attacked by Japan remember?
Something else you seem to have forgotten:
Btw, I still don't get the connection to little green animals and to edible plants. Please explain what I'm missing here?
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At least we had the courage to undo our mistake. While the Frogs and Krauts continued to make money from that regime. Maybe you forgot about that?
Damn shame we saved Europe from Communism. We should have let the Russians take over all of it.
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Hmm. I just looked at the BBC link and the Mirror story. That's mighty coincidental timing, don't you think? Right after the US story BING! Here is one from the UK.
It's probably a good idea to keep your skepticism radar operating. It would be very easy to fake such pictures. A little army surplus clothing, a hood, no faces, anonymous delivery . . .
Remember, there is a real war going on, and a propaganda one too. The US story looks real -- there have been arrests. But let's wait on this British story.
Your point is valid and worth keeping in mind.
But, I saw a report on this tonight - the Ministry of Defence are already in disarray over this. At the moment they are taking this very seriously. They realise how damaging this could potentially be for their position in Iraq. So far, UK forces have been received quite well by the Iraqis.
That could all change very quickly.
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Is this torture official policy or not? Where is the story here?
BREAKING NEWS: A FEW SOLDIERS MISBEHAVE DURING WAR, NEVER SEEN BEFORE EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
What are you talking about? The US Army is responsible for prosecuting its own soldiers if they commit war crimes. That has nothing to do with the conduct of combat operations. Combat isn't primarily about each side policing the other.
Technically, the insurgents -- if they were operating within international law -- would be responsible for prosecuting their own war criminals. That's how it is supposed to work. But in practice, it's usually the case that guerillas don't abide by such niceties while the organized armies (at least from countries like the US) do.
This is why the people who mutilated the civilian contractors are probably all still alive and free, while the US soldiers who committed these atrocities are under arrest and facing prosecution.
- "The US Army is able to prosecute soldiers, war criminals," now what if the *constructortractor* hired by the US is foreigner and not hired specificaly by the Army, but by the government's Co's? Who is responsible, the executioner or the torturer?
slippery stances Simey slicing policies, from now on, the US is "not responsible" for atrocities....(only Iraqis are)
-"Technically, the insurgents -- if they were operating within international law -- would be responsible for prosecuting their own war criminals." and the children killed in Fallujah, were they operating under international law? are you going to reply they strapped bombs on their chests?
- "The US soldiers are under arrest and facing prosecution while the responsible Iraqis are on the run---->after they slaughtered what 600?800? Iraqis�.
When so many small children died in the attack, the expedition was more then a miserable failure, it was a disaster
Am I now explicit enough?
Simey I think you need a different bussola/compass with the right on the right and the good up, in place of the good under like yours.
My comments were related to what the Media reported after the Fallujah tragedy, the comments of the Generals in Iraq, as well as Bremer's mentioning sending punitive expeditions to Fallujah.
Is that equitable policing?
twist out of the horror of the pics.
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
Is this torture official policy or not? Where is the story here?
BREAKING NEWS: A FEW SOLDIERS MISBEHAVE DURING WAR, NEVER SEEN BEFORE EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!
These aren't just a few soldiers, it's more like the tip of the iceberg. The whole excitement that is going around now is not only because some US-soldiers have commited torture and sexual abuse, it's more because it has also been photographed, and the photographs distributed.
Weren't it on photographs and delivered to the media, there wouldn't happen anything about it.
On the other hand these things happen during occupations, that's why an occupation is totally unacceptable, espescially if the occupier has a different cultural and religious background than the occupied.
Taliesin
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
Thanks for proving my point, worthless Muslim supporter. Let's hope there's more torture!
Is there anybody on the planet you haven't insulted yet in your measly 47 posts? Take your hate and leave. If you don't self-combust first.
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Originally posted by swrate:
- "The US Army is able to prosecute soldiers, war criminals," now what if the *constructortractor* hired by the US is foreigner and not hired specificaly by the Army, but by the government's Co's? Who is responsible, the executioner or the torturer?
AFAIK, the people arrested are uniformed military personnel so they are subject to military discipline. I'm not sure of the exact status of any contractors who potentially could be involved. That's not as issue I have ever looked at. However, the Geneva Convention is a treaty that the US has ratified. Nobody would be immunized because they are civilians. My guess is that contractors in Iraq hired by the US military are in some way operating under US military jurisdiction for the purposes of criminal law. But that's just a guess.
Basically, you seem to be doing a lot of jumping to conclusions. Slow down.
And as for your general siding with the insurgents. Give it a rest.
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Krusty:
The fact that this is just now coming out a year after it happened makes me worry that it could have been happening dozens or hundreds of other times since then. I hope that's not the case and that this is just an isolated incident.
I worry about that also, we find facts out much later, the media is not everywhere.
Sauerkraut:
"When Saddam did the same thing the frogs and krauts looked the other way. Funny that."
Does that suggest us to look the other way while US is using the same barbaric methods?
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Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Your point is valid and worth keeping in mind.
But, I saw a report on this tonight - the Ministry of Defence are already in disarray over this. At the moment they are taking this very seriously. They realise how damaging this could potentially be for their position in Iraq. So far, UK forces have been received quite well by the Iraqis.
That could all change very quickly.
Of course they are in disarray. They probably want to know where the hell those pictures came from. But I don't need to tell you that just because a tabloid publishes something does not mean its real. That picture could be of anyone and could be taken anywhere. And the timing is just very suspiciously coincidental.
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
AFAIK, the people arrested are uniformed military personnel so they are subject to military discipline. I'm not sure of the exact status of any contractors who potentially could be involved. That's not as issue I have ever looked at. However, the Geneva Convention is a treaty that the US has ratified. Nobody would be immunized because they are civilians. My guess is that contractors in Iraq hired by the US military are in some way operating under US military jurisdiction for the purposes of criminal law. But that's just a guess.
Basically, you seem to be doing a lot of jumping to conclusions. Slow down.
As for your general siding with the insurgents. Give it a rest.
I nearly posted: please dont answer with uniforms.
Thanks for the answer, laws seem cloudy here.
edited to add: I side against inequity
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Originally posted by swrate:
Thanks for the answer, laws seem cloudy here.
No, the law probably isn't cloudy. I just have never looked at the issue to be able to give you a clear answer.
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Like the Democratic memos showing collusion and special interest pandering amongst Democratic Senators in their quest to block Bush judicial nominees, the real crime and related investigation should be to determine who leaked the photos. </sarcasm>
Seriously though, I hope these jerkoff soldiers (and that ugly-ass, she-male brigadier general/prison guard) see justice. Their actions are a disgrace and a detriment to the overall goals of our efforts.
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Originally posted by Taliesin:
These aren't just a few soldiers, it's more like the tip of the iceberg.
I ask again, is it official policy or not?
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Originally posted by voyageur:
Is there anybody on the planet you haven't insulted yet in your measly 47 posts? Take your hate and leave. If you don't self-combust first.
That's a rather hateful attitude you have.
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
That's a rather hateful attitude you have.
Of course, you are beyond reproach... right?
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
Thanks for proving my point, worthless Muslim supporter. Let's hope there's more torture!
Leave the nasty rhetoric and asinine drivel at the door. If you can't talk like a civil person, go elsewhere.
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Swate: FYI I have a possible answer for you on your question of whether the perpetrators couldn't be brought to justice if they are US civilians, rather than military personnel. Here is at least one statute that that seems to me would be applicable. It specifically applies to US nationals wherever they are in the world.
Section 2340A. Torture
(a) Offense. - Whoever outside the United States commits or
attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to
any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be
punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction. - There is jurisdiction over the activity
prohibited in subsection (a) if -
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States,
irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged
offender.
(c) Conspiracy. - A person who conspires to commit an offense
under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other
than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the
offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.
18 U.S.C. Sec. 2340A.
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Swate: FYI I have a possible answer for you on your question of whether the perpetrators couldn't be brought to justice if they are US civilians, rather than military personnel. Here is at least one statute that that seems to me would be applicable. It specifically applies to US nationals wherever they are in the world.
18 U.S.C. Sec. 2340A.
So...
What happens to South Africans/Chileans/etc. whom may have been involved in "funny business"?
Would their employer be accountable in the same way if said employer is from the U.S.?
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"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
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Posting Junkie
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Originally posted by angaq0k:
So...
What happens to South Africans/Chileans/etc. whom may have been involved in "funny business"?
Would their employer be accountable in the same way if said employer is from the U.S.?
Do you have any evidence that the particular civilian individual (I believe that one of the six may be a civilian) is not a US national? I haven't heard that.
I don't know all that much about this issue. I just figured (correctly as it turned out) that there would be a US statute that would be applicable to hold American citizens to account wherever they are.
Torture is generally a crime of universal jurisdiction under the Torture Convention. That's why this US statute was passed. It certainly applies to non-US nationals in the US. I'd guess at the very least that non-US nationals who are caught by the US committing acts of torture could be handed over to their own countries for prosecution. I'm pretty sure that South Africa would prosecute, and I'd guess Chile too. But I'm no expert on their laws. Ask Troll about South Africa. He could probably tell you.
On the employer issue, this is a criminal statute. Individuals are prosecuted for crimes, not employers.
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Do you have any evidence that the particular civilian individual (I believe that one of the six may be a civilian) is not a US national? I haven't heard that.
I have nothing more but what I contributed in other threads.
But the question was an hypothetical one and I was asking your advice on it.
I suppose Troll can bring more stuff on his own if he is interested.
I am curious about the accountability of those privateers. Apparently, there was a case of rape in Kosovo involving a mercenary that was never addressed by any courts. (I have no links or sources other than my memory; sorry!)
Air America is pretty strong on the lack of accountability of those security forces.
I would sincerily like to know the truth in that matter.
I also know there is a book to be published ( Corporate Warriors); the author was interviewed on a web radio channel (I lost the link) where he explained (if I remember correctly) the lack of accountability of such private forces.
Apparently, the author exposes the good and the bad of such resources.
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"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
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Mac Elite
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Originally posted by villalobos:
Is that because Saddam never went around the world clamoring that freedom, tolerance and so on were the intrisic values of his governemnt and country, clamoring how white and pure and disingenuous he was and how dark and evil and immoral the ennemy was? Would that be possible that the rest of the world detect a hint of the shadow of some hypocritism in the behavior of the 'liberators' of Iraq, who by the way cannot remember for the sake of themselves why they actually went to Iraq in the first place? Yeah, maybe.
It also shows also that this generation is not even closely worthy of the Great Generation. To plagiarize an eloquent figure of this board, this is when the slide started.
villa
I have to agree with you. The Greatest American generation used flame throwers to root out the enemy. We need a few flamethrowers in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bush team had it right when we dropped the first mother of all bombs. it's a damn shame to see these guys wilt before our eyes. We need to buckle down and get serious.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Originally posted by angaq0k:
II am curious about the accountability of those privateers. Apparently, there was a case of rape in Kosovo involving a mercenary that was never addressed by any courts. (I have no links or sources other than my memory; sorry!)
I don't know about that particular story, but there have been various stories circulating in recent years concerning peacekeepers in the Balkans. This is all off the top of my head as some of these stories go back several years. But I do recall that some UN peacekeepers were caught in a prostitution ring and I think there was also an arrest of a group of contractors. I don't recall the nationalities involved.
I suppose the basic thing is to remember that crime is ever present, although obviously it's not that we should tar the innocent with the crimes of a few. Also, when crime like this are uncovered and there are arrests, that's a good thing. But there aren't any magic wands to wave.
Anyway, torture isn't anything that we have to tolerate regardless of nationality. I pointed out that Canada dealt with its own peacekeeping scandal in Somalia with proper prosecutions. I expect no less from my own country.
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Banned
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Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
Leave the nasty rhetoric and asinine drivel at the door. If you can't talk like a civil person, go elsewhere.
Funny how you don't pick on anyone else.
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Posting Junkie
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Originally posted by snickerdoodle:
Funny how you don't pick on anyone else.
Well, you are being a worthless douche. What did you expect?
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The scandal has also brought to light the growing and largely unregulated role of private contractors in the interrogation of detainees.
According to lawyers for some of the soldiers, they claimed to be acting in part under the instruction of mercenary interrogators hired by the Pentagon.
Why would the US military be using "private contractor interrogators " (to be polite)?
Trying to avoid responsibility for something?
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Moderator Emeritus
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Originally posted by MindFad:
Well, you are being a worthless douche. What did you expect?
That doesn't really help anything.
I'm picking on you? Or maybe I'm getting sick of people not being able to hold a discussion like adults. Ever think of that?
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Nemo me impune lacesset
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
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�Our extensive research in Iraq suggests that this is not an isolated incident. It is not enough for the USA to react only once images have hit the television screens.�
Amnesty International has received frequent reports of torture or other ill-treatment by Coalition Forces during the past year.
Detainees have reported being routinely subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment during arrest and detention. Many have told Amnesty International that they were tortured and ill-treated by US and UK troops during interrogation.
Methods often reported include: - prolonged sleep deprivation
- beatings
- prolonged restraint in painful positions, sometimes combined with exposure to loud music
- prolonged hooding
- exposure to bright lights
Virtually none of the allegations of torture or ill-treatment has been adequately investigated by the authorities.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/deliver/document/15339.htm
And some of the pictures that the mainstream media chose not to show:
(
Last edited by kvm_mkdb; May 1, 2004 at 01:12 AM.
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Contra a barbárie, o estudo; Contra o individualismo, a solidariedade!
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Posting Junkie
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Originally posted by Taliesin:
These aren't just a few soldiers, it's more like the tip of the iceberg. The whole excitement that is going around now is not only because some US-soldiers have commited torture and sexual abuse, it's more because it has also been photographed, and the photographs distributed.
Weren't it on photographs and delivered to the media, there wouldn't happen anything about it.
On the other hand these things happen during occupations, that's why an occupation is totally unacceptable, espescially if the occupier has a different cultural and religious background than the occupied.
Taliesin
occupied = lost the war
the loser doesn't get too many choices.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Maybe they chose not to show them because there's no reason to believe they're real?
A little bit of digging shows that they appear come from the website of the Committee for the Defense of Saddam--probably not the greatest source for reliable and unbiased news. And the unblurred photos look like screengrabs from a cheesy porno.
But who cares, right? This has very little to do with reality, and everything to do with the ongoing war on the USA's moral credibility.
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Safe in the womb of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can give the brightest light.
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