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Footage of Iraqi shot from Helicopter
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angaq0k
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May 5, 2004, 05:27 PM
 
From: CBC Report

This video footage includes a report of possible participation of foreign agents in interrogations of Iraqis, as well as a video shoot of a shooting of Iraqis from a helicopter.

(Real Player, 6:10)
"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
     
PacHead
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May 5, 2004, 05:34 PM
 
I havent seen the video from that specific link, cause i dont have realplayer (realplayer blows imo), but I have seen the video elsewhere.

Really cool video. Shows the professionalism of the US soldiers, and the calm, collected manner in which they go about eliminating the enemy.

     
djohnson
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May 5, 2004, 05:59 PM
 
Gonna check this out when I get home here in 2 minutes.
     
ambush
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May 5, 2004, 06:08 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
I havent seen the video from that specific link, cause i dont have realplayer (realplayer blows imo), but I have seen the video elsewhere.

Really cool video. Shows the professionalism of the US soldiers, and the calm, collected manner in which they go about eliminating the enemy.

I like your location...

It tells a lot about your mentality.
     
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May 5, 2004, 06:50 PM
 
"... but the Administration here sees itself as leading the global crusade against evil. After years of lecturing the rest of the world about right and wrong, ceding moral ground doesn't come easily."

Spot on!
     
PacHead
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May 5, 2004, 06:58 PM
 
Originally posted by ambush:
I like your location...

It tells a lot about your mentality.
So, are we here to talk about the video or me ?

BTW - Your location tells an awful lot about you and your mentality also.

     
AKcrab
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May 5, 2004, 07:12 PM
 
What are the "rules"? Are you supposed to terminate wounded enemy?
     
Zoom_zoom
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May 5, 2004, 08:07 PM
 
Originally posted by ambush:
I like your location...
It tells a lot about your mentality.
Agreed.

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PacHead
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May 5, 2004, 08:28 PM
 
The rules ?

duh - if the enemy hasnt yet surrendered, then you kill them of course.

Its not like they took the guys prisoner then killed them.

I know its a hard concept to comprehend for some, but oh well.

     
PacHead
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May 5, 2004, 08:29 PM
 
Originally posted by Zoom_zoom:
Agreed.
2 wrongs doesnt make an offtopic statement correct.
     
bradoesch
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May 5, 2004, 08:43 PM
 
The CBC played a video of a shooting last night during the hockey game (2nd intermission.) It's something I didn't want to see, and it came without any kind of warning. They put warnings on before TV shows so you have an idea of what's coming, I don't know why they didn't do it before this.

Oh, not sure if it was the same footage or not.


edit: crap, first post in the pol/war lounge. I wanted to stay out of here. :/
     
BigMeatyChunks
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May 5, 2004, 09:03 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
The rules ?

duh - if the enemy hasnt yet surrendered, then you kill them of course.

Its not like they took the guys prisoner then killed them.

I know its a hard concept to comprehend for some, but oh well.

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Dale Sorel
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May 5, 2004, 09:05 PM
 
Originally posted by AKcrab:
What are the "rules"? Are you supposed to terminate wounded enemy?
"Hit him!!!"

It's a war, man

Are you supposed to use school and hospitals and mosques to store your weapons
     
BRussell
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May 5, 2004, 09:08 PM
 
I'm pretty sure I saw that about a month ago. Anyone else remember seeing this before?
     
dcmacdaddy
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May 5, 2004, 09:26 PM
 
Originally posted by BRussell:
I'm pretty sure I saw that about a month ago. Anyone else remember seeing this before?
Yeah. It's been around the interweb for a good three months.

It was interesting hearing the conversation between the pilot and commander--who I am assuming was based at a rearward location. Did you notice the intensity and passion of the commander's voice as he orders the pilot (gunner, maybe?) to continue firing while the pilot expresses some hesitancy. Listen for the pauses, not the words, and you will hear what I mean.


These are trained soldiers in a war-time environment but I can't help but feel/hope that even the guys in the helicopter knew that firing multiple rounds at a guy already rolling around injured on the ground was senseless and just a little barbaric. I hope.
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AKcrab
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May 5, 2004, 09:41 PM
 
I'm not a soldier, don't know any soldiers...
I simply asked a question, and got a bunch of attitude. I didn't say I thought the pilots were wrong, I simply wanted to know if there were any rules of engagement.

Obviously, there are not.

Originally posted by PacHead:
duh - if the enemy hasnt yet surrendered, then you kill them of course.
I suppose crawling away from a truck that just exploded above your head would be pretty damn threatening to some guys in a helicopter.

Hit him!
     
PacHead
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May 5, 2004, 10:29 PM
 
Originally posted by AKcrab:

I suppose crawling away from a truck that just exploded above your head would be pretty damn threatening to some guys in a helicopter.

Hit him!
The bad guys should have thought about that before they started running around with RPGs.
     
Krusty
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May 5, 2004, 11:08 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
The bad guys should have thought about that before they started running around with RPGs.
Wait a sec ... did we just watch the same video? The guy who'd been hit and was dragging his injured @ss outta the way --- I didn't see the RPG.
     
Spliff
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May 5, 2004, 11:16 PM
 
Originally posted by BRussell:
I'm pretty sure I saw that about a month ago. Anyone else remember seeing this before?
Yeah, I posted this video over a month ago and the moderators locked the thread. I have no idea why, though.
     
theolein
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May 5, 2004, 11:34 PM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
Wait a sec ... did we just watch the same video? The guy who'd been hit and was dragging his injured @ss outta the way --- I didn't see the RPG.
I didn't see any weapons in their hands at all, which doesn't mean that they didn't have any. What I did see is an Apache helicopter firing a 30mm gatling gun, normally meant for attacking armoured vehicles, at a wounded man on the ground.
weird wabbit
     
Captain Obvious
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May 5, 2004, 11:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
Wait a sec ... did we just watch the same video? The guy who'd been hit and was dragging his injured @ss outta the way --- I didn't see the RPG.
They were trying to strafe him the first time. He was targeted to be killed and he was. If they missed are they supposed to shrug and say, "Oh well we gave it a good try the first time lets go home now. We'll just get him next time"
If the pentagon let this video out then there is more to it than just the clip we saw. So what happened leading up to this and who the people were supposed to be is rather crucial to the story of what happened.

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PacHead
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May 5, 2004, 11:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
Wait a sec ... did we just watch the same video? The guy who'd been hit and was dragging his injured @ss outta the way --- I didn't see the RPG.
Yep, its the same video, however you have only seen the edited, crappy, manipulative version, which is linked to in the first post, which is also the same version that most people are basing their opinions on.

Here is the full version, which tells the whole story.

http://home.comcast.net/~antman01/ap...on_in_iraq.avi

     
theolein
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May 5, 2004, 11:57 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Yep, its the same video, however you have only seen the edited, crappy, manipulative version, which is linked to in the first post, which is also the same version that most people are basing their opinions on.

Here is the full version, which tells the whole story.

http://home.comcast.net/~antman01/ap...on_in_iraq.avi

I have to agree on this one. Those guys in the field didn't look like they were picking turnips. The Apache must have been over a mile away though, since they didn't seem to hear anything.
weird wabbit
     
AKcrab
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May 6, 2004, 12:00 AM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Here is the full version, which tells the whole story.
Indeed. Thanks.
     
Krusty
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May 6, 2004, 12:15 AM
 
Ahh .. OK. No wonder this video never caused much of a stir when it came out months ago. The guys in the chopper were actually as restrained as one could expect, I think.
     
itai195
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May 6, 2004, 12:56 AM
 
I must be an idiot, am I the only person who can't play an .avi file in Quicktime?
     
PacHead
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May 6, 2004, 01:10 AM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
I must be an idiot, am I the only person who can't play an .avi file in Quicktime?
Im not %100 sure which codec the clip uses, but im guessing divx.

VLC will play the clip fine. Just about anything Ive ever downloaded that wont play in quicktime, plays fine in VLC.
     
AKcrab
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May 6, 2004, 03:11 AM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
I must be an idiot, am I the only person who can't play an .avi file in Quicktime?
Played fine with Quicktime for me. I was actually surprised.
     
itai195
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May 6, 2004, 03:21 AM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Im not %100 sure which codec the clip uses, but im guessing divx.

VLC will play the clip fine. Just about anything Ive ever downloaded that wont play in quicktime, plays fine in VLC.
Ahh okay, installed divx and now it works fine... weird, I thought I had divx installed already.
     
Orion27
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May 6, 2004, 08:07 AM
 
The horrors of war. It's a good thing. Stops people from fighting! Which is why handing put chocolates in this case is a waste time and lives.
     
ThinkInsane
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May 6, 2004, 10:45 AM
 
Originally posted by AKcrab:
I'm not a soldier, don't know any soldiers...
I simply asked a question, and got a bunch of attitude. I didn't say I thought the pilots were wrong, I simply wanted to know if there were any rules of engagement.
There are always rules of engagement. Violating them, at least least, kills your career. I've never heard of a case where a violation of ROE doesn't end up with a court martial. To violate the ROE is to disobey a direct order, and commanders don't take to kindly to that. If you do it, you better have a damn good reason and a good JAG lawyer to keep you out of the brig.
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rambo47
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May 6, 2004, 04:32 PM
 
As long as we're discussing war footage, check this out from Afghanistan. It's in .wmv format though.

AC-130 Spectre
     
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May 6, 2004, 04:36 PM
 
Originally posted by angaq0k:
From: CBC Report

This video footage includes a report of possible participation of foreign agents in interrogations of Iraqis, as well as a video shoot of a shooting of Iraqis from a helicopter.

(Real Player, 6:10)
I have the same footage in Quicktime format. This footage is so a few months ago.
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Spliff
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May 6, 2004, 05:07 PM
 
Originally posted by rambo47:
As long as we're discussing war footage, check this out from Afghanistan. It's in .wmv format though.

AC-130 Spectre
What kind of weapon are they using? There seems to be a considerable delay between the targeting and the actual detonation (?) on the ground.

Second of all, how do they know they're not killing innocent people who are at the mosque? They may have good intelligence, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every one at the compound is an enemy.
     
AKcrab
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May 6, 2004, 07:07 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
What kind of weapon are they using? There seems to be a considerable delay between the targeting and the actual detonation (?) on the ground.
Aircraft profile: The AC-130 'Spectre'
The AC-130 is armed with a 40-mm Bofors cannon and a 105-mm Howitzer cannon. Newer models also mount a 25-mm gun, used to saturate a target area with extremely rapid fire.

Backing up the heavy armaments are sophisticated sensor, radar and navigation systems operated by a crew of up to 14.

Its fire control system is designed to be extremely precise, placing munitions with what is described as "first round accuracy".
Not exactly what we see in the clip...
Second of all, how do they know they're not killing innocent people who are at the mosque? They may have good intelligence, but that doesn't necessarily mean that every one at the compound is an enemy.
Good question.
     
angaq0k  (op)
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May 6, 2004, 07:16 PM
 
Originally posted by AKcrab:
Aircraft profile: The AC-130 'Spectre'

Not exactly what we see in the clip...

Good question.
Amazing how what was a slow and multipurpose cargo airplane became a gunship.

I remember similar aircraft delivering us food 30 years ago, far up north. These are amazing machines.

But I am really surprised how such a slow plane can be used with such a firepower in the course of a "war". Reminds me of that commentary from that comedian, who commented on the cowardice of bomber pilots (something like "It is easy to kill from 20 000 ft"). I mean, it is easy to kill from so far away.

How could one retaliate against such a weapon? I mean, helicopters are fast and "gracile", but a Hercules airplane is manoeuverable but never that much...
"******* politics is for the ******* moment. ******** equations are for ******** Eternity." ******** Albert Einstein
     
Spliff
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May 6, 2004, 07:21 PM
 
Originally posted by AKcrab:
Aircraft profile: The AC-130 'Spectre'

The AC-130 is armed a 105-mm Howitzer cannon.
105 mm Howitzer?! Holy Christ. That's a big gun.
     
f1000
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May 6, 2004, 07:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Krusty:
Wait a sec ... did we just watch the same video? The guy who'd been hit and was dragging his injured @ss outta the way --- I didn't see the RPG.
The video that you're seeing was blurred (censored) for television in order to prevent other countries� militaries from gauging the quality of U.S. FLIR technology. The Apache pilot had a MUCH clearer picture of the situation and only attacked after he saw what looked like an RPG being handled.
     
ThinkInsane
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May 6, 2004, 07:44 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
105 mm Howitzer?! Holy Christ. That's a big gun.
The howie isn't even the scariest thing on the plane. I've seen that 40mm fire at night, and it looks like a laser coming out of the sky. Every fifth round is tracer. In Viet Nam they used them to cut down tree lines. When you hear Puff the Magic Dragon roar, your whole day just went to crap. Well, if you were still alive to hear it roar.

As to the intel, most often, Spookies are called in by by troops on the ground, giving visual target info.
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f1000
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May 6, 2004, 07:56 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
105 mm Howitzer?! Holy Christ. That's a big gun.
It's only a matter of time before Apache's will deploy UAV's armed with nothing more than a 9mm 'cannon' to take on individual fighters with small arms.

Open the following link in RealOne Player:
http://www.pbs.org/perl/media.cgir?t...97250&e=529719
( Last edited by f1000; May 6, 2004 at 08:12 PM. )
     
beni
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May 6, 2004, 08:51 PM
 
"He's wounded, hit him!" sick f�cking cowards. I am suddenly ashamed of being part of the western world..
     
PacHead
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May 7, 2004, 02:24 AM
 
Originally posted by beni:
"He's wounded, hit him!" sick f�cking cowards. I am suddenly ashamed of being part of the western world..
Its called war. You could always move to sudan or someplace if you don't want to be a part of the western world anymore.

     
BigMeatyChunks
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May 7, 2004, 02:52 AM
 
Originally posted by beni:
"He's wounded, hit him!" sick f�cking cowards. I am suddenly ashamed of being part of the western world..
Bet he won't get up ever again to take up arms against our soldiers.

Life sucks, shouldn't have been standing there.
     
PatheiMathos
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May 7, 2004, 11:38 AM
 
This dicussion is sickening...all of you need a serious reality check. As some of you have stated, this is war. It's not a F****** video game. There are real peope dying as I type these words and its very easy for us to sit here at our computers and make quippy remarks about it. Have some compassion for your human race, because thats what we all are, human. I'm not ashamed in being part of the western world parsay, but I am ashamed of being part of a world that has the absence of compassion I've found here. NEWS FLASH !!! Were not winning, we're just killing more people. If you consider that a victory, i'm truly sorry.
( Last edited by PatheiMathos; May 7, 2004 at 12:47 PM. )
cheers
     
BigMeatyChunks
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May 7, 2004, 12:25 PM
 
Get, thanks, I was wondering why I couldn't hit F3 and see my current frag/kill ratio. I was concerned there about my ping to server fragfest.iraqifreedom.com but thanks for clearing it all up.
     
macvillage.net
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May 7, 2004, 02:10 PM
 
What's interesting is that this is quite old video. At least a few months old now..

But only now has it become controvercial here in the US.

I just find it strange how all of a sudden America changes heart, like it's only faking to please the rest of the world.

Note this whole Rumsfeld testimony is focused on the problem of the pictures and info getting out... not that these acts took place. In all about 2 minutes so far were focused on the blindness allowing the acts to take place... the rest was about it becoming public.

You would think they would do this stupidity behind closed doors, rather than continue to harm the nations reputation.


The saddest part of all is that this isn't new news. Just now pictures are being confirmed. They've floated as a "hoax" for a little before. And these reports were confirmed by human rights organizations for several months.

But then nobody cared. Everyone went on the offensive that human rights organizations were anti-american.


Perhaps "a picture is worth a thousand words"... kind of brings a new meaning to that phrase... at least a slant I never considered before.

[meanwhile as I tipe, there's a "shoot the terrorist, win an ipod" ad flashing]
     
Krusty
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May 10, 2004, 10:28 PM
 
Originally posted by f1000:
The video that you're seeing was blurred (censored) for television in order to prevent other countries� militaries from gauging the quality of U.S. FLIR technology. The Apache pilot had a MUCH clearer picture of the situation and only attacked after he saw what looked like an RPG being handled.
You missed my reply a few posts beyond the one you quoted (after I saw the full video)
Originally posted by Krusty:
Ahh .. OK. No wonder this video never caused much of a stir when it came out months ago. The guys in the chopper were actually as restrained as one could expect, I think.
     
Spliffdaddy
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May 10, 2004, 11:30 PM
 
Originally posted by beni:
"He's wounded, hit him!" sick f�cking cowards. I am suddenly ashamed of being part of the western world..
I suppose they should have left him there to suffer. Instead, they wasted $8.40 worth of .50cal ammo.

Wasting our tax money...
     
Shaddim
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May 11, 2004, 10:39 AM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
They were trying to strafe him the first time. He was targeted to be killed and he was. If they missed are they supposed to shrug and say, "Oh well we gave it a good try the first time lets go home now. We'll just get him next time"
If the pentagon let this video out then there is more to it than just the clip we saw. So what happened leading up to this and who the people were supposed to be is rather crucial to the story of what happened.
It's comical to see a clip, like this, taken out of context. I'm sure the entire sequence would have made the pilots' reation much more understandable.
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Shaddim
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May 11, 2004, 10:43 AM
 
Originally posted by beni:
"He's wounded, hit him!" sick f�cking cowards. I am suddenly ashamed of being part of the western world..
"... and the Oscar� goes to beni, for best show of outrage in a political discussion!"
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
 
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