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sahara · Jul 21, 2002, 04:05 PM

A while ago I sent feedback to Apple about the possibility of allowing X11 apps to run using the MacOS X window manager. Afterwards I heard rumors that they were actually considering or working on this. I have no idea what is involved toward adding such a feature, but it would be pretty damn cool. Is anyone able to comment on the feasibility of adding this to OSX?

Babar · Jul 21, 2002, 10:17 PM

<a href="http://www.xdarwin.org" target="_blank">www.xdarwin.org</a>

Enjoy

You might also check out <a href="http://fink.sourceforge.net/" target="_blank">http://fink.sourceforge.net/</a>

sahara · Jul 21, 2002, 11:04 PM

Been there, doing that. Want X11 apps to use Quartz!

Can't complain about Sawfish+Gnome which I am running now though. Works and is relatively quick. But wouldn't you rather see your X11 apps supporting the full Aqua interface, rather than using some hackjob theme?

Ludovic Hirlimann · Jul 22, 2002, 02:26 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by sahara:
Been there, doing that. Want X11 apps to use Quartz!

Can't complain about Sawfish+Gnome which I am running now though. Works and is relatively quick. But wouldn't you rather see your X11 apps supporting the full Aqua interface, rather than using some hackjob theme?<hr /></blockquote>I don't agree. People need to be able to tell the diff between an OS X application and a X11 application having differenet widget is a really esay way to tell.
You need to make the difference because the UI is not the same on X11, and amongst X11 apps. What makes Mac OS cool is the easy transition from one Application to the other : Thee shortcuts will be the same, the menues should lay in the same place etc ... This all but true in X11 world so people should be able to see it ...

MacGorilla · Jul 22, 2002, 10:33 AM

Unix apps using Quartz would be a non-trivial task, requiring a massive rewrite of quartz APIs AND the unix apps themselves. No thanks, just use XDarwin!

sahara · Jul 22, 2002, 11:25 AM

Personally I don't see the need to tell the difference so readily. When I run a carbon app next to a cocoa app, I hardly care which is which. In a similar manner, I would not care that such and such an app is a UNIX program. Besides, if I download and install AbiWord, I know it is a UNIX app. It's not like I'd forget and one day encounter frustration because I cannot tell which type of application it is. Anyway, I understand the point that X11 and Mac apps have a different UI. However, I'm using a Sawfish theme that mimics Aqua. While my UNIX apps clearly have a different UI, they use similar graphical elements to compose their windows which I like better than feeling like I'm running two different environments side by side (which I am). I'm not saying I want UNIX apps to be translated into Mac ones, just that I think it would be cool if I didn't need Sawfish and the Aqua theme to get what I'm getting now.

WJMoore · Jul 22, 2002, 07:26 PM

If you you were to do what is suggested and make X11 apps use Aqua UI elements and Quartz you are basically doing what is done already when an X11 app is ported to a native OS X app. Therefore there is no need for any extra support for X11 apps in OS X.

Wesley

sahara · Jul 22, 2002, 07:38 PM

Why would you port an X11 app to a native OSX app when X11 apps already run fine as the X11 apps that they are?
My suggestion would make the job of porting to OSX even more of a non-necessity than it already is.
Perhaps I'm way off here... Just seemed like a cool idea to have X11 apps take advantage of the preexising look and feel of OSX without changing the way they are built or run.

Secret Vampire · Jul 24, 2002, 07:27 PM

the problem is that to use Quartz gadgets from in an X11 app you'd need to call Quartz APIs, once you do that you've done that you've as good as ported the app anyway.
I suppose if apple really wanted to they could hack GTK, QT, etc. to look like quartz, but there's enough fundamental difference between Quartz and X11 that having an X app use Quartz without being a full port is virtually impossible.

Greg Parker · Jul 24, 2002, 07:55 PM

There are two different issues being discussed here:

* Using the Aqua window manager to manage X11 windows. This makes the windows themselves behave like Mac windows, but doesn't affect controls or graphics inside the windows. Tenon's Xtools and Powerlan's eXodus do this. XDarwin currently does not. There have been some experiments with XDarwin, but it's hard to do correctly. OroborOSX is a good solution for XDarwin - an X11 window manager that looks mostly like Aqua and can do some Aqua-like things like minimize to the Dock.

* Implementing the X11 APIs with Aqua controls, or porting apps directly to Carbon/Cocoa/Quartz. This is a lot of work, and not worth the time for many apps.

Xtools: <a href="http://www.tenon.com/" target="_blank">http://www.tenon.com/</a>
eXodus: <a href="http://www.powerlan-usa.com/" target="_blank">http://www.powerlan-usa.com/</a>
OroborOSX: <a href="http://oroborosx.sourceforge.net/" target="_blank">http://oroborosx.sourceforge.net/</a>

sahara · Jul 25, 2002, 01:15 PM

Well here's another thought then. What are the chances that Apple might include something like OroborOSX with an Aqua theme with a future release of OSX? This way a standard install of OSX comes with the ability to run X11 apps out of the box. Quartz widgets and APIs aside.

MacGorilla · Jul 25, 2002, 01:20 PM

I can't see apple doing that--I mean, both are two clicks away. There is a nice installer for X Darwin and OroborOSX already, though a combined installer would be nifty.

P · Aug 3, 2002, 05:14 PM

There's a NeXTaw library that can replace the standard Xaw with NeXT-like widgets. I guess it would be possible to make such a widget set with Aqua, if it's important enough. That would put you one step closer to an Aqua-like X11 environment.

For apps that use GTK, there are themes.

sahara · Aug 4, 2002, 01:04 PM

I've been using OroborOSX lately, and its a good step forward. Although it is much slower on my system than my previous setup of XDarwin w/ Sawfish+Gnome.

There is also this: http://sourceforge.net/projects/gtk-quartz/