[MindFad]

That is an in-game real-time shot of the Wii version, actually. Looks about right—a more powerful Xbox.

[Destonius]

Sony is opening a new Playstation Signature store in a fashion district of Tokyo.
(Actually, 20 minutes walk from the fashion district. The store is in middle of nowhere.)
Check out the strange range of products and their prices.
http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/200...53839,0,0.html
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/games/art...9/news040.html
(Divide the yen price by 110 and you get the US dollar price.)

Hmm, the store design looks vaguely familiar...
It seems that everyone is trying to be Apple nowadays.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/e3_2006/index.html

[Hal06]

and one though the Apple's iPod case was expensive…

[tthmaz]

Personally, I think Wii will be a hit this time. The 2nd would be xbox 360 and ps3 being th third.

But it depends on customer loyalty as well... It has been reported that in UK, PS3 is still the most anticipated console. While in Japan, Wii leads the way with ps3 the 2nd (Xbox360 was never a hit in Japan).

M$ has been smart enough to come into the video game scence as hey are now trying to encourage ppl to use their product as a media center in every home. I would like to see Nintendo and Sony have a bigger share of the market though, they are the "old" companies of video gaming and i hope they come up with something to maintain their user base (plz don't repeat what Sega did)

[Hal06]

No boundaries for Nintendo's icons.

The Legend of Zelda protagonist named "Hottest Video Game Character" by gay and lesbian monthly Out.

The Legend of Zelda series has won numerous awards in its near two-decade run, but one magazine is calling out the game's hero, the boyish elf Link, as a perfect 10. The June issue of Out, a magazine focusing on gay and lesbian culture, named the green-leotard-wearing hero as the Hottest Video Game Character in its "What's Hot Now" section for his role in the upcoming GameCube and Wii release, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess.

From the mag: "When darkness enshrouds the land, Nintendo's sexy farm-boy-turned-wolf sets out to save the day in this upcoming game. His weapons: a sword, a bow, arrows, and kick-ass grooming skills.

[Hal06]

Originally Posted by Destonius

Sony is opening a new Playstation Signature store in a fashion district of Tokyo.
(…)

Funny enough the pic from such playstation store seems to be a prerendered one. Maybe they are gonna to show the real thing @ next E3.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Inside Man

Funny enough the pic from such playstation store seems to be a prerendered one. Maybe they are gonna to show the real thing @ next E3.

Haha... so true.

The place looks too sterile.... probably smells like a pharmacy or hospital or something. Too plain. But then again.....come next year, it'll probably look more like Apple's or Nintendo's World Store...and it'll be deemed the most innovative and best retail experience ever made by Harrison.

I predict troubled times ahead for Sony.

[Madferret]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Haha... so true.

The place looks too sterile....

Do you complain about apple stores too?

[angelmb]

Wii line-up, source n-central.com

Nintendo has today officially confirmed the launch lineup for their upcoming system, the Nintendo Wii. 16 titles will be avalible at launch, most of which were shown off at E3.

Here is the full list of titles:

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Wii Sports
Red Steel
Tony Hawk's Downhill Jam
Madden NFL 2007
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz
Metal Slug Anthology
Trauma Center: Second Opinion
Elebits
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Blitz: The League
Rayman Raving Rabbids
SpongeBob SquarePants: Creature from the Krusty Krab
Disney/Pixar's Cars


They also confirmed the styles of play available at launch. These will include:

- Remote, using the Wii Controller
- Nunchuck, using the Wii Controller + Nunchuck combined
- Classic, using the Wii Controller on its side
- Retro, using the Retro controller
- Light Gun, using the Wii light Gun.

[ink]

Originally Posted by Destonius

It was the first FF that I never finished

You finished FF X-2?

I'm sorry.....

I couldn't finish that one, or Crystal Chronicles. I barely finished FF VIII. Square has their fair share of stinkers. Although Kingdom Hearts 2 is amazing.

PS. FF XII is for the PS2, not the P3.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by FrankeniMac

Do you complain about apple stores too?

Actually no. i love the Apple Stores.... minimilast, yet "warm". with a rather colorful scene as opposed to the black n white n grey in the prerendered picture of Sony's retail experience.

[Destonius]

Originally Posted by ink

You finished FF X-2?
I'm sorry.....
I couldn't finish that one, or Crystal Chronicles. I barely finished FF VIII. Square has their fair share of stinkers. Although Kingdom Hearts 2 is amazing.
PS. FF XII is for the PS2, not the P3.

I don't know what I was thinking, but I actually did finish X-2. It was a torture, to say the least.
I've skipped out on Crystal Chronicles and XI and haven't played pre-VII series.
Come to think of it, I'm really not much of a FF/RPG fan, but I still feel that FFT is one of the best games ever made. (Yes, I used a cheat code to clear it )

[goMac]

Guitar Hero might move to the Wii:

http://www.thewiire.com/news/318/1/E..._with_Harmonix

Personally, it would be nice to see one of my favorite PS2 games move to the Wii.

[Hawkeye_a]

I just noticed something ..... almost all internet/gaming polls on the next-gen systems, put the Wii ahead. Im assuming the demographic of people voting are "gamers" and mostly technophiles.....

So going by these polls.... it appears that Nintendo has NOT alienated harcore gamers, and justdging from their focus on non-games.... i think theyre going to make a killing with their strategy.

[angelmb]

It is as easy as Wii being the coolest option out there, how couldn't anyone like stuff like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nQTB...ii%20Drum%20e3

[Hawkeye_a]

New Legend Of Zelda footage (GameCube)...havent seen these scenes before...worth checking out imo.

enjoy : http://onnintendo.com/Posts/2006_05/...cts/zelda.html

[goMac]

Doesn't look so good for the PS3 in Japan...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060530-6939.html

[Socially Awkward Solo]

I am pretty sure the Xbox will get a huge chunk of the PS3's market because of the price. At least in the US.

In Japan the Xbox still doesn't stand a chance in holy hell which isn't fair as there is nothing wrong with it.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by angelmb

It is as easy as Wii being the coolest option out there, how couldn't anyone like stuff like this?[/url]

Poor video output, poor audio output, poor 3rd party support. Just like the GC and N64.

If the wii had the same hardware as the Xbox and better 3rd party support it would be alright.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

I am pretty sure the Xbox will get a huge chunk of the PS3's market because of the price. At least in the US.

On this, at least, we agree.

In Japan the Xbox still doesn't stand a chance in holy hell which isn't fair as there is nothing wrong with it.

That's where I disagree. What's wrong with the XBox360 can be summed up in five words: it's more of the same. The hardware is better, but there's nothing truly innovative about it.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Poor video output, poor audio output...

I can see where the ten people who use HDMI and optical audio might have a problem with this. For the industry as a while, though, this is a non-issue.

...poor 3rd party support.

The third-party developers disagree, if E3 is any indication. Name one who has no plans announced for the Wii.

If the wii had the same hardware as the Xbox and better 3rd party support it would be alright.

In other words, if it pandered to the 3-G formula rather than trying to actually improve gameplay. Sorry, but no thanks. Attitudes like that symbolize everything that's wrong with the video game industry right now. I, for one, hope the Wii succeeds.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Millennium

On this, at least, we agree.

That's where I disagree. What's wrong with the XBox360 can be summed up in five words: it's more of the same. The hardware is better, but there's nothing truly innovative about it.

Have you used one for more than a couple minutes? There is LOTS that is innovative about it.

Xbox live alone is one of the biggest things to happen for game systems in 20 years.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Have you used one for more than a couple minutes? There is LOTS that is innovative about it.

Such as...?

Xbox live alone is one of the biggest things to happen for game systems in 20 years.

An online gaming network? Those existed for years before the 360. In fact, XBox Live existed before the 360 did. The 360 is, once again, more of the same.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Millennium

In other words, if it pandered to the 3-G formula rather than trying to actually improve gameplay. Sorry, but no thanks. Attitudes like that symbolize everything that's wrong with the video game industry right now. I, for one, hope the Wii succeeds.

Actually you can drop this whole thing of "in oder for it to be innovative the graphics also have to suck" as nobody but you fanboys are buying it.

Nintendo always bragged about graphics on every system and game until the wii.

Nintendo has never known how to push the graphics power of its systems. The GameCube is much more powerful than the PS2 but it is like pulling teeth to even get Nintendo to release a widescreen game. The PS2 also managed to push 1080i over it.

The only reason the graphics stink on the Wii is because it is cheaper for nintendo meaning MORE MONEY. They also know that if they compete for graphics it won't help them win i.e the gamecube VS the PS2/Xbox. The N64 vs the PS1.

There is nothing wrong with High def games. It doesn't mean the game is only nice to look at and not innovative enough for you. Games are about immersion. The wii is about immersion.

Powerful graphics and AI give you immersion not just waving a stick in the air.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Millennium

What's wrong with the XBox360 can be summed up in five words: it's more of the same.

Aren't these six words?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Such as...?

An online gaming network? Those existed for years before the 360. In fact, XBox Live existed before the 360 did. The 360 is, once again, more of the same.

So what? Video games existed before the original Nintendo. Computers were around before Apple. Forums were around before MacNN.

Nintendo said repeatedly that people don't want to play online games. Guess what they think now after they see the xbox.

Have you played an Xbox 360 for more than 10 min? Simple question.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Actually you can drop this whole thing of "in oder for it to be innovative the graphics also have to suck" as nobody but you fanboys are buying it.

No one has said that. But neither are graphics the only thing that matter, as you seem to believe.

There is nothing wrong with High def games.

Of course not, but neither are they The next Big Thing. You're severely overestimating their importance.

It doesn't mean the game is only nice to look at...

Actually, if you take high-definition graphical capability by itself, that is all it means.

...and not innovative enough for you...

If high-definition graphics are all a new console offers, then no, it isn't innovative enough for me.

Games are about immersion. The wii is about immersion.

Um... is that actually what you intended to say?

And no; games aren't about "immersion". They're about entertainment. Just as graphics are only one way out of many to achieve immersion, immersion is only one way out of many to achieve entertainment.

Powerful graphics and AI give you immersion not just waving a stick in the air.

Intuitive and natural play control gives you immersion, not just looking at pretty pictures on a screen. See how easy it is to turn what you've said around?

If you truly believe that the PS3 will enable more powerful AI than its competitors, then you are sorely mistaken. Game AI is not a processor-intensive task, as just about anyone who has actually programmed games can tell you. Finding the right combinations of patterns to make a powerful AI is difficult, yes, but the patterns themselves are very simple. The hard work isn't done by the processor, but by the people coding for it. Once the processor is "fast enough", making it faster gives you no benefit, and processors have been fast enough for that since the PS1 days.

That's not to say that the advances of more recent generations were unnecessary. Other areas of certain types of games -most notably graphics, but physics is another prominent example- needed better hardware in order to advance. AI, however, had nothing to do with that. I don't know where you're getting your idea that the Cell enables some kind of new X-TREEEEEEEEEM AI, but it's smoke and mirrors.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Aren't these six words?

"It's more of the same". I guess that if you count "it's" as two words, then yeah; I suppose it's six words. I hadn't intended that, though.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

So what? Video games existed before the original Nintendo. Computers were around before Apple. Forums were around before MacNN.

Nintendo said repeatedly that people don't want to play online games. Guess what they think now after they see the xbox.

Have you played an Xbox 360 for more than 10 min? Simple question.

Then why do competitors CONSTANTLY copy Apple and Nintendo ?

Some "developers" invest time, money, effort and genius to develop technology that's ascessable to everyone (the 'Think Different' ad)....they develop human interface guidlines for the great technology unlike their competitors who ONLY boast about technical specs (and cant deliver i might add...well if 25 minutes of GTHD is innovative i rest my case). Other companies...just rip em off....cause the're too busy doing nothing.

Third party support ? 27 playable games on the show floor from Ninteendo as opposed to prerendered scenes from Sony 6 months before launch ? and Nintendo has poor third party support ?

And yeah...5 years ago an online network for gaming was not worth anything for more than a couple of million gamers (like 10-15% or something). fastforward to now....you have many more people on broadband, and wireless broadband, who can take advantage of onlne gameplay (and might i add that in order to play online...it's free on the Wii, and it'll cost you on the other two platforms). So guess who got online play right ?

So lets see...
-a more powerful system
-a "new" system
-a free online network
-more games
-cheaper (hardware, software, services)
-backwards compatibility to 1985

And what are you complaining about ? the fact that a small percentage of people....many of whom probably dont even play games...wont be able to get HD graphics ? get over it...the vast majority of people on the opposite side of the fence (such as myself) wont be paying for a feature they wont use this generation.

[ink]

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...PS3-gamble.ars

You want a PS3, you get Blu-ray. In some ways, this is a great deal if you switch that equation around to, "You want Blu-ray, you get a PS3." If you are in the market for a Blu-ray player, the PS3 is indeed worthy of consideration; it's certainly less expensive than other players. This is exactly what happened with the PS2. When it debuted in 2000, it was one of the least expensive DVD players on the market, especially in Japan. But also keep in mind that DVD was almost four years old by the time, which meant that consumer demand for DVD and DVD players was proven, and the drives themselves had been through more than one generation of revision. Neither can be said for Blu-ray at this time.

Hence, if you're not in the market for a Blu-ray player, then the built-in Blu-ray player has less appeal to you. In fact, it may be unappealing, since it is more or less the reason why the PS3 costs so much more than the Xbox 360. A key point here: value is a personal assessment of how much something is worth relative to other products. The argument "It's well worth $600 because it has Blu-ray" misses the point if it's meant to be taken objectively.

[Busemann]

This would be true if BluRay was only for movies. But it is not. Even launch titles will take advantage of the increased storage that BluRay offers. Microsoft is getting a lot of flak from developers for just using DVD.

[Hal06]

Forbes says xbox is mad,



Get a Wii and exercise America.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Inside Man

Get a Wii and exercise America.

Considering that most Wii games involve a lot more physical activity...

Was that a pun?

[angelmb]

One question here: since Acclaim is gone, is going to be possible to run their games with Wii's Virtual Console?, -licensing issues-

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by angelmb

One question here: since Acclaim is gone, is going to be possible to run their games with Wii's Virtual Console?, -licensing issues-

That depends on many factors. It's possible that as part of Nintendo's developer licensing scheme, it reserved the right to distribute the game on future consoles. I very much doubt Nintendo was that forward-thinking, but the odds are nonzero.

Failing that, it would depend on who holds the licenses to those games now. I don't actually recall what happened to Acclaim, but if they're truly gone then their IP was probably sold to someone, and Nintendo would have to deal with them instead of Acclaim.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Busemann

This would be true if BluRay was only for movies. But it is not. Even launch titles will take advantage of the increased storage that BluRay offers. Microsoft is getting a lot of flak from developers for just using DVD.

Oblivion fit on one DVD. That game was massive. Quite possibly the biggest game ever made. Unless your game has 3 hours of hi-def cut scenes or something, I don't see this being a huge deal.

From what I've heard, developers are more upset about the added cost of manufacturing Bluray discs, since it's going to end up costing them a lot more.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Busemann

This would be true if BluRay was only for movies. But it is not. Even launch titles will take advantage of the increased storage that BluRay offers. Microsoft is getting a lot of flak from developers for just using DVD.

Do you have a link to that "flak"?

Final Fantasy X, one of the LONGEST games on the planet, fit on one DVD, WITH VOICEOVERS.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by starman

Do you have a link to that "flak"?

Final Fantasy X, one of the LONGEST games on the planet, fit on one DVD, WITH VOICEOVERS.

A quick Google search: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9917

Oblivion fit on one DVD. That game was massive. Quite possibly the biggest game ever made.

People said similar things ten years ago when Sony chose the CD format, and then six years ago with DVDs. If there's one thing that's proved itself in this industry, it's that games get bigger and bigger and bigger. If you think games have reached a ceiling at 8-9GBs, then I can assure you that you're wrong as we're moving into real 720p, with 1080p on the horizon..

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

A quick Google search: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9917

People said similar things ten years ago when Sony chose the CD format, and then six years ago with DVDs. If there's one thing that's proved itself in this industry, it's that games get bigger and bigger and bigger. If you think games have reached a ceiling at 8-9GBs, then I can assure you that you're wrong as we're moving into real 720p, with 1080p on the horizon..

There are a few problems with this. First, Bluray is so slow you don't want to be pulling large amounts of data from the drive. You're going to see developers keeping game sizes down just to avoid the slow drive speeds. Also, game developers are probably start going to use real time cut scenes instead of FMV, which again take much less space. And with FMV compression getting very good anyway, you again don't need as much drive space.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Busemann

A quick Google search: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9917



People said similar things ten years ago when Sony chose the CD format, and then six years ago with DVDs. If there's one thing that's proved itself in this industry, it's that games get bigger and bigger and bigger. If you think games have reached a ceiling at 8-9GBs, then I can assure you that you're wrong as we're moving into real 720p, with 1080p on the horizon..

But we are not talking about forever here. We are talking about the next 5 years. Is 8-9 gigs enough for the next five years? For 99% of games, yes it is. For the others, I would rather have 2 discs then have to pay extra for Blu-Ray.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Busemann

If there's one thing that's proved itself in this industry, it's that games get bigger and bigger and bigger.

Games themselves don't really get much bigger. FMVs and voice tracks do. Up through FFIX -the last Final Fantasy to appear on the PSX, and a four-disc game- the entire game engine (and almost all of the game data) actually appeared on every single disc; only the FMVs were different. The same has been true of most PS2 games: were it not for FMVs and voice tracks, you could fit almost all PS2 games onto a single CD (not DVD) with room to spare.

If you think games have reached a ceiling at 8-9GBs, then I can assure you that you're wrong as we're moving into real 720p, with 1080p on the horizon..

The only likely difference is that an even greater proportion of the game's media will be taken up by FMVs. Voice tracks won't get that much bigger, but FMVs certainly will.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by goMac

There are a few problems with this. First, Bluray is so slow you don't want to be pulling large amounts of data from the drive. You're going to see developers keeping game sizes down just to avoid the slow drive speeds.

Actually, I doubt this. What will happen is that they'll get better at hiding the load times, by preloading in the background as a player approaches an area that needs loading.

In terms of game design, this likely means larger maps, with different exits placed further apart. This makes it easier to accurately predict where a user will go next, simply by looking for the closest exit. If the user changes his mind, that's not the end of the world, because the exit is far enough away that there's still time to load the level.

Gamecube developers have elevated this concept of preloading data in the background to an art form, and Wii developers will probably continue with it. However, there's no reason it couldn't be applied to other consoles as well; it's just a development technique that happens to have become popular on the Gamecube.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Games themselves don't really get much bigger.

Well, according to NFOs of X360 discs on newsgroups, Condemned, PGR3, Gun, Amped 3, Kameo and CoD2 are all over 7GB. And these are all "launch window" titles.

The only likely difference is that an even greater proportion of the game's media will be taken up by FMVs. Voice tracks won't get that much bigger, but FMVs certainly will.

Hi-res textures take up some space though

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by goMac

There are a few problems with this. First, Bluray is so slow you don't want to be pulling large amounts of data from the drive. You're going to see developers keeping game sizes down just to avoid the slow drive speeds.

I don't think there's any reason to be worried really. Here's what the Prince of Persia guys that are developing Assasin's Creed say about BR:

OPM: How's your experience with the storage media of the PS3, the HDD and the BluRay disc? And do you have any comparable experience with HD-DVD technology?

M.M.: Our focus is 100% BluRay, so I cannot compare with HD-DVD. I can only say that the new BluRay disc format is truly awesome. The capacity is immense, and the Data Transfer Rate is way beyond what we are used to. And that's really important, because Data Streaming (OPMED: where the console constantly loads new data from disc) is truly the only way to push next-gen games to the limit. The Playstation 3 HDD is something that we have so far given less attention to, because it hasn't been certain all that long yet that it will be standard on every console. Decreasing load-times by copying a part of the game to the HDD is one possibility, though it doesn't matter all that much for a streaming game like ours. But there are tons of other applications, such as the possibility to as it were record your whole game, to be able to watch a replay of it later on. We intend to use the HD optimally, but how, I can't tell yet currently.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Well, according to NFOs of X360 discs on newsgroups, Condemned, PGR3, Gun, Amped 3, Kameo and CoD2 are all over 7GB. And these are all "launch window" titles.

Yes, and almost all of the space on those discs will be taken up with FMVs and voice tracks.

Hi-res textures take up some space though

Some, yes, but surprisingly little. Even most high-res textures aren't going to take up more than 100K or so of space; you'd need over 5000 of them just to fill up a plain CD-ROM.

[starman]

Originally Posted by ort888

But we are not talking about forever here. We are talking about the next 5 years. Is 8-9 gigs enough for the next five years? For 99% of games, yes it is. For the others, I would rather have 2 discs then have to pay extra for Blu-Ray.

EXACTLY

[angelmb]

Do you remember The X Files game?, it was seven (?) cd-rom discs (Mac OS version), just cause the movies… if they ever do something similar in high definition… how much space do you think would take??

[goMac]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Do you remember The X Files game?, it was seven (?) cd-rom discs (Mac OS version), just cause the movies… if they ever do something similar in high definition… how much space do you think would take??

They wouldn't. They'd render the cut scenes in real time. They'd have to have 5-6 hours of HD video anyway to go over DVD's capacity.

[ink]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Do you remember The X Files game?, it was seven (?) cd-rom discs (Mac OS version), just cause the movies… if they ever do something similar in high definition… how much space do you think would take??

Those probably used MPEG-1 or something similarly primitive. With the modern CPUs/GPUs in these new consoles, you can use sophisticated region-bound codecs like H.263 that generate files much smaller than even divx(xvid). As an example, I have a 960x540 movie that runs for 25 minutes and its size is 163MB.

[Hawkeye_a]

I'm not a fan of cutscenes personall. I prefer real-time cut scenes using the game's engine than prerendered stuff. I dont think i played any Nintendo game this generation that used FMVs, nd im greatful for that.

Also, people had an ssue with properietary formats and non-standards....cartridges and GC discs... it "apparently" made things more expensive for developers and consumers. Now M$ and Nintendo are goin with standard DVD-DL discs and Sony is going with the unproven, unstandard, properietary format, that is expensive across the board.

Seems to me that Sony is making many of the same "mistakes".... and charging an arm and a leg for it.

If Microsoft can fit HD games onto DVD-DL discs, why does Sony insist that having 3-6 times that capacity is essential ?..... oh yeah theyre trying to be the Microsoft of the entertainment world.... how ironic lol.