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Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 25, 2002, 10:55 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maxelson:

Who else... Ah, yes. Carl Everett. C'mon, folks. Let's create the most miserably jerkish team we can.<hr /></blockquote>we can have rickey henderson lead off and have manny ramirez hit clean-up

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

gorickey · Jun 25, 2002, 11:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maxelson:

Who else... Ah, yes. Carl Everett. C'mon, folks. Let's create the most miserably jerkish team we can.<hr /></blockquote>we can have rickey henderson lead off and have manny ramirez hit clean-up

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Haha, very clever....

Henderson has got a bad rap from the media since day one, in fact....almost all his "antics" have been way over blown IMHO. Tell me something "jerkish" that Henderson has done in the past 5 years that is any worse then say A-Rod demanding $25 million? Bonds? Rocker? Exactly, you can't. His few past mistakes have been more then dealt with and he has represented the game excellent.

Try finding a past teammate of Rickey that does NOT like him or appreciate his skills and leadership on the team....is that jerkish? If so, so be it....

GO RICKEY!

ironknee · Jun 26, 2002, 12:26 AM

grew up loving the Phillies
last 20 years Mets and Yankees

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 26, 2002, 08:31 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
[QUOTE]
Henderson has got a bad rap from the media since day one, in fact....almost all his "antics" have been way over blown IMHO.
<hr /></blockquote>he played cards with bobby bonilla (hits clean up in the assh*le team too) in the clubhouse in the METs most desperate last game in 99 or 00' ( to make playoffs or whatever).

That was after the Mets let him revive his career again on their team. He shows his appreciciation by doing that in the Mets most desperate moment.

Most Met fans hate his guts, most Mets hate his guts (they wont admit it, but i remember their reaction), Bobby V hates his guts and we'll never forgive him for doing such childish BS.

as of right now...it's fitting he's in boston. i hate boston and it really sort of fits. he'll ruin their team just like every other team he's been on. just give him time. it's not him thats the cancer...it's his selfishness.

gorickey · Jun 26, 2002, 04:01 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
[QUOTE]
Henderson has got a bad rap from the media since day one, in fact....almost all his "antics" have been way over blown IMHO.
<hr /></blockquote>he played cards with bobby bonilla (hits clean up in the assh*le team too) in the clubhouse in the METs most desperate last game in 99 or 00' ( to make playoffs or whatever).

That was after the Mets let him revive his career again on their team. He shows his appreciciation by doing that in the Mets most desperate moment.

Most Met fans hate his guts, most Mets hate his guts (they wont admit it, but i remember their reaction), Bobby V hates his guts and we'll never forgive him for doing such childish BS.

as of right now...it's fitting he's in boston. i hate boston and it really sort of fits. he'll ruin their team just like every other team he's been on. just give him time. it's not him thats the cancer...it's his selfishness.<hr /></blockquote>You make no sense, first off...it was never "proven" that he indeed was playing cards...again, it's your stupid NY media, we all know what NY media can cause!

Selfishness? Define how Rickey is selfish to the game of baseball. Tell me why his teammates and coaches never find him selfish (not the media, his peers/teammates/coaches)...VERY MUCH DIFFERENT then the media.

If he is so selfish? Then why is he allowed to play for any team? Odd.

GO RICKEY!

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 26, 2002, 08:24 PM

Dude, nobody really wants him but a good lead off hitter is hard to find these days...

He's not bad, he's not really great but he is a good player to have on the field for 70 games or so.

Does he have a great career? Yes. No question.

Is he great now? NO!

<a href="http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/010320.html" target="_blank">An article on ESPN about ol' Mr. Selfish</a>

You ask me how players feel about him, but players dont want to diss a Hall of Famer. They have too much respect.

Plenyy of players hate him, i.e. everybody on the Mets and valentine.

Teams always sign him, but very reluctantly. Maxelson, back me up here: wasn't that old selfish rickey bitchin' about his playing time a few months back in Boston?

I think so. (boosting up his stupid records, like when he stole a base in the 7th after a 12-5 lead when he was on the padres)

gorickey · Jun 27, 2002, 10:23 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
Dude, nobody really wants him but a good lead off hitter is hard to find these days...

He's not bad, he's not really great but he is a good player to have on the field for 70 games or so.

Does he have a great career? Yes. No question.

Is he great now? NO!

<a href="http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/010320.html" target="_blank">An article on ESPN about ol' Mr. Selfish</a>

You ask me how players feel about him, but players dont want to diss a Hall of Famer. They have too much respect.

Plenyy of players hate him, i.e. everybody on the Mets and valentine.

Teams always sign him, but very reluctantly. Maxelson, back me up here: wasn't that old selfish rickey bitchin' about his playing time a few months back in Boston?

I think so. (boosting up his stupid records, like when he stole a base in the 7th after a 12-5 lead when he was on the padres)<hr /></blockquote>Oh, darn....the guy wants to play, pity him! Seriously, just because he is as competitive as ever and wants to play more you call him selfish? Wow, poor Bull's fans with Jordan then.

Nice article, I have 30 more from ESPN glorifying the guy to high heaven....Henderson is Gammon's buddy, talks nothing but good of the guy.

Trust me, one look on the Boston forum on ESPN and you will find NOTHING but good stuff on Rickey as well....but, I forget...nobody likes him. He was the PERFECT replacement for Manny while he was gone and did everything that was asked of him.

By the way, about the Mets....now back me up on this...is it not fair to say that Roger Cedeno wouldn't be the player he is without the tooling of Rickey when he was there? 66 SB's one year? Hmmm, wonder who was the mentor in that. Ask Cedeno, he is very blunt in the fact that Rickey was the one who taught him how to be a leadoff hitter. Same can be said for Jay Payton. But alas, he is selfish, eh? Before Rickey was a Met, who was there at leadoff, McCrae? Haha, they did NOTHING, no playoffs or anything. I believe Rickey and his .300 BA was very pivotal in getting the Mets to even play Atlanta in the playoff's in '99....Cincinnatti on the road...homerun in the ninth to seal the series/game....who did that? Oh yeah, selfish Rickey...enough said.

GO RICKEY!

[ 06-27-2002, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: gorickey ]

CleaningMan · Jun 27, 2002, 10:39 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:Selfishness? Define how Rickey is selfish to the game of baseball. Tell me why his teammates and coaches never find him selfish (not the media, his peers/teammates/coaches)...VERY MUCH DIFFERENT then the media. <hr /></blockquote>Good for Rickey. I hope he's happy, and the Mets are better off without him. Card-playing or not, he was getting lazy during his last season with the Mets. He stopped chasing the ball in OF as hard, stopped charging to first the way he used to. Who knows why? He wasn't happy, he wasn't contributing, he wasn't acting as a leader, and he had a ****ty attitude. As a Mets fan, I'm glad he's gone.

gorickey · Jun 27, 2002, 11:50 AM

I think I'm more happy that he's not a Met then you guys are....

GO RICKEY!

typoon · Jun 27, 2002, 12:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cjrivera:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by typoon:


BTW how is Tino doing? he used to live in my town btw. Same with Mattingly<hr /></blockquote>He got off to a slow start from a hitting standpoint, but has been an outstanding defensive 1st baseman so far. He recently began hitting more like he has in the past and racking up a few more RBI's. Most STL fans have been really happy with him so far. He's not the big home run threat we had in McGwire (at least a few years ago), but he easily makes up for it in his defense.

And I wasn't ripping NYY fans, just pointing out differences.<hr /></blockquote>I didn't think you were ripping NY fans. I just like to make that point since many think NY fans are harsh. It's good to hear Tino is doing good there. He is a GREAT defensive Firstbaseman and you guys got a player who I think should win the gold glove at his position almost every year. He has a solid glove, is a class guy and hits well when you need it.

maxelson · Jun 27, 2002, 12:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
[QUOTE]
Henderson has got a bad rap from the media since day one, in fact....almost all his "antics" have been way over blown IMHO.
<hr /></blockquote>as of right now...it's fitting he's in boston. i hate boston and it really sort of fits. he'll ruin their team just like every other team he's been on. just give him time. it's not him thats the cancer...it's his selfishness.<hr /></blockquote>I'm sorry you hate Boston. I'm sure we can arrange an appropriate reception should you ever visit.

HOWEVER- Henderson is, in fact, well respected in the clubhouse, from what I hear. And, truth to tell, he'd have a long way to go before rising to HALF the level of Everett, that cancer. He is ruining nothing for Boston. He's doing rather well for them.
The fact that Wells is respected in NYY land is very telling, in my book. You guys seem to enjoy the loudmouth braggart swine. It's a good thing the majority of your team is swimming in good sportsmanship.
Baaaaaaaa... Baaaaaaa...

gorickey · Jun 27, 2002, 12:26 PM

Amen Maxelson, amen....thanks for the comments!

GO RICKEY! GO BO SOX!

maxelson · Jun 27, 2002, 12:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:


Teams always sign him, but very reluctantly. Maxelson, back me up here: wasn't that old selfish rickey bitchin' about his playing time a few months back in Boston?

I think so. (boosting up his stupid records, like when he stole a base in the 7th after a 12-5 lead when he was on the padres)<hr /></blockquote>(on this note, please remember that the Yanks have had some of the worst stealing blunders in the history of ever this season- remember the last time they met the Sox?)

Yes, I can and will back you up on that one. When you're right, you're right. But, it also turned out that Ricky was right. He has done us some serious good- he performs best for us under serious pressure. Admittedly, Boston will put up with a little mouth as long as he's got the stuff to back it up and as long as he does not stink up the clubhouse. As a Yankees guy you know: team chemistry is HUGE. The Yankees got that. Jeez, do they got that. It IS their most prolific weapon.
I do have to say that I think it is the media what hates him more (and in Boston, as you know, if you don't play with the local news, you're screwed... ask Manny- who is, IMHO, severely overrated).
But hey- don't get me wrong. It's not like I want Bonds playing for the Sox or anything. Not like we have to worry aboout that.
I'll be VERY interested to see where them mid season trades get us.
Mssr. Le Ramjet? Any thoughts?

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 27, 2002, 09:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by maxelson:


Yes, I can and will back you up on that one. When you're right, you're right. But, it also turned out that Ricky was right. He has done us some serious good- he performs best for us under serious pressure. Admittedly, Boston will put up with a little mouth as long as he's got the stuff to back it up and as long as he does not stink up the clubhouse. As a Yankees guy you know: team chemistry is HUGE. The Yankees got that. Jeez, do they got that. It IS their most prolific weapon.
I do have to say that I think it is the media what hates him more (and in Boston, as you know, if you don't play with the local news, you're screwed... ask Manny- who is, IMHO, severely overrated).
<hr /></blockquote>well said, max

but i want to re-iterate what max said. he backed up manny and did a good job. thats not unexpected as i said ricky is still a good player.

but lets face facts:

� he plays for a different team every year (3 teams in 2000)
� teams wont sign him till late spring training
� they usually sign him on a yearly basis
� He hasn't hit over .250 in the last 6 years except in one season

if they take time away from trot nixon, it'd be a crime. nixon can play the crazy fenway outfield and hit for power and average

ricky had a great year as a met, hitting .315 but in my mind, he's the worst player who ever lived because he disappointed an entire city with his disgusting immmaturity when he decided to pout against valentine for taking him out and playing cards with bonilla. look, i'm a yankee fan first but what he did transcends any baseball team. disrespect to your fellow teamates, coach and fans in baseball is unforgiveable.

like i said, i'm a yankee fan. i hope he blows up that redsox clubhouse.

PS. Max, i think this may become one of those legendary pennant races of the late 70s this second half

gorickey · Jun 27, 2002, 09:53 PM

Your hope of him disrupting the Bo Sox clubhouse has already been put to rest...much like your reasons for Rickey being selfish!

GO RICKEY and GO BO SOX!

gorickey · Jun 27, 2002, 09:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> but lets face facts:
� he plays for a different team every year (3 teams in 2000)
� teams wont sign him till late spring training
� they usually sign him on a yearly basis
� He hasn't hit over .250 in the last 6 years except in one season <hr /></blockquote>Let's just face the truth:

� He doesn't play for a new team every year!
� Who cares when they sign him? Point is, they sign him.
� Would you sign a 43-year old to a multi-year deal?
� BA is not what's important for a lead-off hitter....it's On Base Percentage...and what has Rickey ranked among the MLB's best during the last 6 years? Top 7, that's right...even with his "sub par" BA, he's on base just as much as the guys who are hitting .325 or better.

GO RICKEY!

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 27, 2002, 10:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:


� He doesn't play for a new team every year!
� Who cares when they sign him? Point is, they sign him.
� Would you sign a 43-year old to a multi-year deal?
� BA is not what's important for a lead-off hitter....it's On Base Percentage...and what has Rickey ranked among the MLB's best during the last 6 years? Top 7, that's right...even with his "sub par" BA, he's on base just as much as the guys who are hitting .325 or better.<hr /></blockquote>� He played for 6 since 1997 (thats more than 1 a year)
� The point i was trying to make is that nobody RE-signs him
� Answered your own question buddy
� I woun't dismiss this last claim. i praise ricky very mightily for his OBP despite having low BA.

but we both know that the good lead off hitters have both.

gorickey · Jun 27, 2002, 10:57 PM

No, we don't both know that....it's nice to have, but not needed...the point is to get on base (by any means necessary) and score runs...both of which Rickey does as good as anybody. A high BA is not necessary.

GO RICKEY!

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 27, 2002, 11:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
No, we don't both know that....it's nice to have, but not needed...the point is to get on base (by any means necessary) and score runs...both of which Rickey does as good as anybody. A high BA is not necessary.
<hr /></blockquote>nice to have. therefore it's better. we do both know that hitters that hit for high average and have high ob percentage go from average to great

johnny damon
alphonso soriano
luis castillo
ichiro suzuki

and thats why rickey henderson has played about 30 games this year

gorickey · Jun 28, 2002, 10:09 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />nice to have. therefore it's better. we do both know that hitters that hit for high average and have high ob percentage go from average to great
johnny damon
alphonso soriano
luis castillo
ichiro suzuki
and thats why rickey henderson has played about 30 games this year<hr /></blockquote>

So now are you just switching points? Your original and wrong point to this whole thing was that "Rickey is selfish"....and now, all of a sudden...it's gone to "Rickey can't play anymore"....

Yes, he is older now...he is not the greatest leadoff hitter playing today, but he is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time....hands down! If you want me to say that he isn't the producer he once was, so be it....done, but don't say he can't perform at all anymore, because you would be making a fool of yourself. I have proved your selfish comments to be nothing.

GO RICKEY!

[ 06-28-2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: gorickey ]

maxelson · Jun 28, 2002, 10:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by maxelson:
[qb]

like i said, i'm a yankee fan. i hope he blows up that redsox clubhouse.

PS. Max, i think this may become one of those legendary pennant races of the late 70s this second half<hr /></blockquote>And a poxy Wells upon the Yankee Den of a Thousand Camel Farts!! (you can tell this Wells thing just has me cheesed)

As for the pennant race... jeez. I hope so and I don't. I get really WAY to excited and WAY too disappointed. I mean, it ain't healthy. It can't be.

typoon · Jun 28, 2002, 12:40 PM

Well yes Rickey is the greatest Lead off hitter of All time. and the stolen base king. But he was and still is considered my many to be aloof in the outfield. He has always been considered that even in his days as a Yankee

(s)macintosh · Jun 28, 2002, 07:41 PM

I wonder if Ricky will opt to retire to the Hall of Fame as a Yankee? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

macaddled · Jun 29, 2002, 09:25 AM

since I'm late to the thread, I'll throw out some handy bullet points:

�I'm a Yankees fan because I'm enthralled by the ongoing love affair between Derek Jeter and the Zim

�Rickey Henderson, say what you will, is a first ballot Hall of Famer and if there was a ballot before the first one, he'd be in on that. He is a walking advertisement for the truth that walks and on-base percentage win you games, something that some managers still seem to have difficulty with. He is easily one of the 50 greatest players of all time and I think the whole cards-playing story is funny. 'Course I'm a Yankees fan.

�Manny Ramirez is by all accounts a pretty nice guy, if a little ... vacant.

�Did Carlos Baerga start taking Zoloft or something?

�The Watson baseball tool totally rocks. If only it had highlights, as with the movie trailers.

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 29, 2002, 10:33 AM

goricky,

i have to admit, it's been fun. i dont consider our conversation a flame because i have purposely edited my responses to be a little curt to make sure you reply. Seriously, i read your posts at work and i think about it for awhile and post when i'm at home.

i have tried to say ricky is
�good now
�great then
�and a deserving hall of famer

I do hate him, and i love the fact he is on the Red Sox. I normally dont love watching him but i do now love watching him because of the pennant race now. I love watching him suck mostly but at the same time he is a good player and has had a good season vs. my very team.

You really haven't "proven" that ricky is unselfish but i haven't really "shown" he is selfish either. But at the same time he has a rep like Maxelson said and he has trouble getting rid of it because of his actions and behavior toward the media. You can't deny that. We both keep up with baseball and Ricky Henderson only acts one way and it's the same Ricky we've seen since he was a rookie.

maxelson,

hahahaha...actually, carlos baerga is a rare talented veteran that is just "one of those" guiys that changes a clubhouse around. We had that in Tim Raines, and Luis Sojo during our championship dominance as of late. I think that ricky may be a bomb just waiting to explode. The Sox don't need him to question the moves of your new manager. After Kerrigan, your manager needs the respect of all your players. Unfortunately, Ricky Henderson commands his own respect in a way, so it's tough with him. The Red Sox do not really need him to play a lot because:
� Trot Nixon is a budding star
� Manny is a superstar hitter
� Damon is a super lead-off hitter
and most importantly, fenway is a really funky outfield and Ricky is one the worst outfielders there is in the game because of his lack of concentration and weak throwing arm. You can't have that at Fenway, your outfielders should take advantage of Fenway and be better than the opposing team in fielding.

And david Wells may be a assh*le in other organizations, but he loves it here and i think the Yankees love him too. He's not really a potential disruptor in NY. He's a starting pitcher too, so he pretty much plays every 5 days and there isn't much to whine about.

Wow, i wrote this out in like a minute and a half...

Macintosh · Jun 29, 2002, 11:56 AM

Phillies.

gorickey · Jun 30, 2002, 02:47 AM

Apple Pro Underwear:

Agreed, it's been fun...sorry if I came across rude, but obviously I know alot about the guy and feel he's been very good for the game of baseball.

Take care.

GO RICKEY! GO BO SOX!

imafreak · Jul 1, 2002, 04:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
Boston Red Sox...

They have the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and probably a Top 5 player EVER to play the game....Rickey Henderson, enough said.<hr /></blockquote>NEW YORK YANKEES. The team that had Rickey when he was good.

imafreak · Jul 1, 2002, 04:53 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
Boston Red Sox...

They have the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and probably a Top 5 player EVER to play the game....Rickey Henderson, enough said.<hr /></blockquote>NEW YORK YANKEES. The team that had Rickey when he was good.

gorickey · Jul 1, 2002, 05:29 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by imafreak:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
Boston Red Sox...

They have the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and probably a Top 5 player EVER to play the game....Rickey Henderson, enough said.<hr /></blockquote>NEW YORK YANKEES. The team that had Rickey when he was good.<hr /></blockquote>If you thought he was good for the Yankees, you must have missed his Oakland A's days....

Apple Pro Underwear · Jul 1, 2002, 06:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by imafreak:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
Boston Red Sox...

They have the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and probably a Top 5 player EVER to play the game....Rickey Henderson, enough said.<hr /></blockquote>NEW YORK YANKEES. The team that had Rickey when he was good.<hr /></blockquote>If you thought he was good for the Yankees, you must have missed his Oakland A's days....

<hr /></blockquote>it's true...ricky in his prime was incredible

scarrier than damon, soriano and ichiro combined

what was the stolen base total? like 130 in one season

gorickey · Jul 1, 2002, 08:01 PM

Yep, had 130 in '82....the single season record before that was like 118 or something, I believe he's had 3 or 4 seasons of 100 SB's or more! Pretty incredible indeed. Just a few years ago, at the very young age of 39, he had 66 SB's....that is just sick! Just think, I believe NO ONE will ever get 100 SB's in a single season again...the catchers are just that much better and nobody is as smart as Rickey is on the basepaths...it's just not speed, it's literally knowing everything about the pitcher (movement, fakes, foot action, pitch he'll throw)...and I truly believe nobody will get 100 again.

GO RICKEY!

Apple Pro Underwear · Jul 1, 2002, 08:11 PM

disagree....

there will be a basestealer who will break rickey's record.

he will have to have that arrogance about him just like ricky did. tim raines in the 80s was too nice even though he was talented.

gorickey · Jul 1, 2002, 10:15 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
disagree....

there will be a basestealer who will break rickey's record.

he will have to have that arrogance about him just like ricky did. tim raines in the 80s was too nice even though he was talented.<hr /></blockquote>I don't know about that, I say all of Rickey's records....All Time SB's, Walks, Runs, Lead Off Homers will NEVER be broken. Why? Not because people won't have the talent, but because nobody is going to play 24+ years in MLB anymore (he's played MLB in 4 different decades, can you name the others that have done so?)...with the salaries of today, you can play 5 and be done/retire with more then Rickey has EVER made. That's just my opinion, but it makes sense.

[ 07-01-2002, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: gorickey ]

macaddled · Jul 1, 2002, 11:07 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Henry Louis Gehrig

A man, a gentleman
and a great ball player
whose amazing record of
2,130 consecutive games
should stand for all time.

--Monument park in Yankee Stadium
<hr /></blockquote>That's why they play the games, kiddo.

[ 07-01-2002, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: macaddled ]

imafreak · Jul 2, 2002, 04:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by imafreak:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gorickey:
Boston Red Sox...

They have the greatest leadoff hitter of all time and probably a Top 5 player EVER to play the game....Rickey Henderson, enough said.<hr /></blockquote>NEW YORK YANKEES. The team that had Rickey when he was good.<hr /></blockquote>If you thought he was good for the Yankees, you must have missed his Oakland A's days....

He was even better as an "A"