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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Nice Vote-by-Mail system y'got there. Hope nothing happens to it.

Nice Vote-by-Mail system y'got there. Hope nothing happens to it. (Page 3)
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subego
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Aug 26, 2020, 12:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Ah, the primaries are a sensible explanation.

Over here, you don’t „register“ to vote. You need to register your address when you move, and you’re automatically eligible to vote in that district. Everybody gets the official invitation, info mail, and absentee ballot request form, as well as a demo ballot to look over, and you just have to show up at your polling station with valid ID.

Party candidates are voted on by party members. Nobody who isn’t explicitly a party member gets to decide who the candidate will be (obvious exception being court decisions, like when candidates are excluded from a party and contest the expulsion — as is currently happening all across Germany within the AfD, the right-wing populist don’t-call-then-Nazis-even-though-individual-members-can-legally-be-called-„fascist“ party of Covidiots, Trump cultists and Russian propaganda).

Registering for a party to be eligible to vote on that party’s candidates in primaries makes sense when you have a system of voluntary voter registration in the first place.

To me, that seems like an extra hurdle to what should be the most accessible basic task of a democratic citizen. But that’s just IMO.
One added wrinkle is registering to vote is what makes a person eligible for jury duty.
( Last edited by subego; Aug 26, 2020 at 01:40 PM. )
     
subego
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Aug 26, 2020, 03:21 PM
 
Looking over the differences...

Here, you have to register once when you’re 18, and from then on, it’s just sending them change of address. I imagine reregistration is required for moving out of state.

No absentee ballot requests are automatically mailed here. We don’t get demo ballots automatically either. Both are available online and through snail mail, though. Demo ballots used to get printed in the paper, too, but I haven’t checked to see if they still do that.

The one thing I’d say we do better (meaning Chicago... other jurisdictions vary) is no ID is required. A voter card is sent out every election, and that, along with a matching signature is all that’s needed.

The latter can be an issue if your signature has changed. Mine is very different from what it was when I was 18, so a driver’s license helps smooth things over. The signature can be updated, but I haven’t bothered.
     
Laminar
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Aug 27, 2020, 08:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The one thing I’d say we do better (meaning Chicago... other jurisdictions vary) is no ID is required. A voter card is sent out every election, and that, along with a matching signature is all that’s needed.
Isn't a voter card a form of ID? And subject to A) the postal service delivering mail effectively B) Your address remaining the same and C) Your name not getting "cleaned up" off of the voter list.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79031...stration-rolls
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 27, 2020, 08:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
One added wrinkle is registering to vote is what makes a person eligible for jury duty.
You sure? Here in Indiana, the jury eligibility roll is compiled through the BMV (where you can get simple ID cards as well as drivers licenses) and the Department of Workforce Development. No voter registration is used.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
subego
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Aug 27, 2020, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
You sure? Here in Indiana, the jury eligibility roll is compiled through the BMV (where you can get simple ID cards as well as drivers licenses) and the Department of Workforce Development. No voter registration is used.
I guess that’s just here, then. I assumed the vote-jury thing was universal.
     
subego
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Aug 27, 2020, 03:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Isn't a voter card a form of ID? And subject to A) the postal service delivering mail effectively B) Your address remaining the same and C) Your name not getting "cleaned up" off of the voter list.

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/20/79031...stration-rolls
What I meant is no other ID is required. A person with no other ID is automatically sent an acceptable substitute.

This relies on the mail, of which I’m sure a certain number get lost, but they’re sent out so early there’s never a timeliness issue. I got mine for November a couple weeks ago.

I don’t understand how a DL protects against spurious purges. Our election board is legally required to be non-partisan, so relatively speaking we’re protected from those.



Edit: to put all this another way, no system is perfect, but a system which aims to automatically send an acceptable ID to every voter does a better job at protecting a voter’s franchise than one which does not.
( Last edited by subego; Aug 27, 2020 at 05:42 PM. )
     
reader50
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Aug 27, 2020, 03:36 PM
 
Rundown on US Jury sourcing (includes how to avoid duty)

Federal court juries are drawn from voter rolls, sometimes from other sources too. Voter rolls can be registration lists, or just those who actually voted recently. Seems to be up to each fed court district.
State court juries are drawn per that state's rules. Usually voter rolls, often driver license lists, or even tax returns.

Ways to avoid being called: be a policeman, firefighter, or lawyer. Be a famous person, or an elected official. Don't speak English. Be a felon, or on active military duty. Or be mentally ill.

I've always wondered about faking mentally ill. When they question you, start muttering about obeying the Great Guru, throw in racial opinions, and how minorities are plotting to steal your job. Argue with people no one else can see.

Or just tell them up front you're sure the suspect is guilty (or innocent). That'll get you released immediately. I don't see why people go to elaborate shenanigans to avoid duty, when it's so easy to leave.
     
subego
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Aug 27, 2020, 03:43 PM
 
Excellent info!

I have learned that if you don’t show up for jury summons to a federal court, you will get a scary letter threatening to arrest you if you keep it up. My local governments don’t seem to care if you’re a no-show.

To get out of jury duty proper I‘m tempted to try telling the truth, which is the last time I was on a jury I did a very poor job of following the instructions.
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Aug 27, 2020, 07:03 PM
 
For the record, I’ve been called for jury duty three times and have served twice. I’d do it again in a heartbeat. You’re doing something that actually matters, and the serious discussions in the jury room were excellent.

Last time I served, we just about made the prosecutor shit his pants because we were one vote shy of invoking jury nullification, because we all (save for one lone juror) felt the laws being applied to the defendant were unjust and, basically, reactionary bullshit. That was fun. The prosecutor was an arrogant dick.
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
reader50
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Aug 27, 2020, 09:29 PM
 
I've been called, but never served. Never even got questioned for selection. Pity - I'd like to do my civic duty at least once.

The closest incident - we got called in. Waited in the hallway, with inadequate chairs, because they didn't have a proper jury waiting room. The lawyers were in the judge's chambers, negotiating.

Lawyers walked past us a few times. Maybe we looked too mean. They want back into chambers. An hour after we arrived, they reached a plea bargain.

We were all thanked and excused. Fully excused - no need to check in again. Except for the turkeys who didn't show - they were rolled over to the next summons.
     
subego
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Aug 27, 2020, 09:54 PM
 
I served once on a dumb civil case.

The threat of a bench warrant I previously mentioned forced me out to a courthouse in BFE where I waited all day and was then sent home.

I’ve turkeyed out on all my other summons. For the majority of times it’s been because suddenly disappearing would **** over a bunch of people.
     
reader50
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Sep 4, 2020, 09:53 PM
 
It's getting weirder.
Piles of mail were found in two separate locations in Glendale Thursday morning, including one incident where a rented truck was captured on surveillance video dumping bags of unopened letters and packages in the parking lot of a business.
With thousands (?) of items, it won't be too hard to check tracking. See where they all were last scanned. Plus checking who rented the truck, and who paid for the rental.

Unless I badly misremember, fooling with USPS mail is a felony. And since ballots have not gone out yet in CA, it would have to be a practice run. That will get people locked up.

I'm not seeing the profit angle here.

Edit: 2nd link, includes video
( Last edited by reader50; Sep 4, 2020 at 10:05 PM. )
     
Thorzdad  (op)
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Sep 4, 2020, 10:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I'm not seeing the profit angle here.
You mean other than acting as convenient “proof” that the mail is far too insecure to trust vote-by-mail?
[set curmudgeon_mode=1]
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 5, 2020, 09:39 AM
 
Well, with Trump actually inciting people to commit voter fraud "to prove it can be done" I wouldn't be surprised if some Vigilante Vinnie thought it would be fun to dump some mail.
     
Laminar
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Sep 11, 2020, 08:27 AM
 
This week I received my fifth mail-in ballot request. Only one has been from the actual secretary of state, the rest are from other organizations.
     
subego
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Sep 11, 2020, 04:25 PM
 
USPS removed 711 sorting machines this year, new court documents show

Things from those court documents you won’t find in the article.

The Post Office doesn’t use people to decide whether sorting machines are removed, it uses a computer model.

Because of the plague, compared to last year, volume is down 1 billion pieces... per week.

If every ballot was mail-in, the Post Office could sort them twice, and it would take all of... 4 hours.


Am I alone in thinking this is relevant information?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 12, 2020, 04:42 AM
 
Maybe if its accurate. The question is intent. Just because it supposedly won't impact the election doesn't mean they weren't trying to.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Sep 12, 2020, 04:48 PM
 
To help assess accuracy:

The source, who is the Headquarters Director of Operations, has been with the Post Office for 35 years and has held his current position for two (i.e, he’s not a DeJoy plant).

His statements were made under oath, so intentional inaccuracies come at the risk of 5 years in prison.


To help assess intent:

The Director goes on for several pages explaining the intent behind removing machines. This intent can be summarized as “not going broke”. A drop in volume of 1 billion pieces per week meant the Post Office suddenly had hundreds of unused machines. Those unused machines took up time, money, and space, while providing no benefit whatsoever.

The computer simulation I mentioned was last run in May, long before DeJoy took over.


Question CNN’s intent behind cherry picking the affidavit. Question CNN’s intent behind not hosting the affidavit.

I am hosting it, BTW. I’ll PM a link to anyone who wants it.
( Last edited by subego; Sep 12, 2020 at 05:13 PM. )
     
subego
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Sep 17, 2020, 01:52 AM
 
     
reader50
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Sep 17, 2020, 02:17 AM
 
Two problems. I don't think container ships are made in the US, not sure if they've ever been. And the Clipper Ship is sinking.

However, they got the smoke right on the Aux Steamship. I was expecting a government artist to have the smoke blowing back, while the sails blew forward.
     
subego
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Sep 17, 2020, 02:46 AM
 
The container ship, R.J. Pfeiffer, was surprisingly built in San Diego in the early 90s. At this very moment it’s on the way to Honolulu from Oakland.

The Clipper, Sovereign of the Seas, I imagine was tacking like a mother****er.

For the Auxiliary, the artist had a contemporary lithograph to cheat off of.


Edit: the Clipper is also based off a litho, but it was undated.
( Last edited by subego; Sep 17, 2020 at 03:20 AM. )
     
subego
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Sep 30, 2020, 05:08 AM
 


Single data point. Election board started mailings on Friday the 25th. Got it Tuesday the 29th.

I’d say that’s a day slow, I was expecting Monday, but the board presumably dropped a ton on Friday.

Whoever printed the envelope gets poor marks for the really loosey-goosey registration.
( Last edited by subego; Sep 30, 2020 at 05:21 AM. )
     
reader50
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Sep 30, 2020, 01:43 PM
 
If you're in Pennsylvania, remember to include the 2nd "secret ballot" envelope, or your naked ballot will not be counted.

Several Penn politicians went topless to get that message out. (Safe For Work - you can't see anything) The same rule may apply in other states.

ie - fill out ballot. Seal in "secrecy" envelope. Place secrecy envelope within larger "mailing" envelope. Fill out info on mailing envelope, and sign it. If you skip any of the steps ... nice states will ask you to correct the mistake(s). Not-so-nice states will jump at any excuse to throw your ballot in the trash.
( Last edited by reader50; Sep 30, 2020 at 02:15 PM. Reason: forgot envelope-signing step)
     
subego
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Oct 1, 2020, 03:38 AM
 
I read the decision.

My hot-take is the petitioners screwed their own pooch.

They should have argued the point in your last paragraph. “If a voter messes this up, allow the voter to correct it”. They could have won that.

Instead, they argued “the law doesn’t say the secrecy envelope is required”. In the opinion of the court, it does*, so they got shot down.


To put it another way, they lost due to overreach, not because PA is a dick.


http://www.pacourts.us/assets/opinio...%2bCourt%27%22

The relevant bit starts on page 42.


*The petitioners argued the secret envelopes were not mandatory. The court pointed to the law which says ballots must be secret, and previous rulings where the word “shall” means mandatory (as in “voter shall place the ballot in the super seekrit envelope”). They justified voiding ballots because law is allowed the means to be enforced.
( Last edited by subego; Oct 1, 2020 at 04:36 AM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Oct 1, 2020, 01:18 PM
 
Does the envelope say PUT VOTE IN THIS ENVELOPE OR THE VOTE IS NOT VALID in large red letters?
     
subego
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Oct 1, 2020, 08:00 PM
 
That would be smart, but the law says on the envelope “shall be printed only the words ‘Official Election Ballot’”.
( Last edited by subego; Oct 1, 2020 at 08:21 PM. )
     
subego
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Oct 4, 2020, 07:49 AM
 


Someone else needs to start doing the heavy lifting. This is my last sheet.
     
reader50
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Oct 13, 2020, 12:54 AM
 
California authorities have launched a criminal investigation into unauthorized ballot boxes that the Republican party has placed in several counties, with authorities warning that these set-ups are illegal.

The boxes have appeared in Fresno, Los Angeles and Orange counties at locations including political party offices, campaign headquarters and churches, according to the California secretary of state. The GOP admitted Monday that it owned the boxes and defended the practice.
Story link

The GOP claims they're covered by a law allowing 3rd parties to collect ballots for turning in. But the voter must authorize the 3rd person, and the 3rd person must sign the return envelope. There are a few other conditions, like the 3rd person cannot be paid based on how may ballots they collect.

An unofficial drop box is not a person, so the voter cannot authorize it. And it can't very well sign the envelopes.

I'd be more suspicious if they appeared in Democrat-leaning areas, where ballots might get thrown out. As it is, they're in conservative areas. But someone could still check with a bright light, to make sure the voter voted for the right people. Any ballots for the wrong people, could get lost.

Funny how the GOP is trying to add extra dropoff locations in conservative areas. While Greg Abbott (GOP governor of Texas) tried to limit official drop boxes to one-per-county.
     
subego
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Nov 2, 2020, 11:23 AM
 


Put my ballot where my mouth is, and mailed it just now. It has about 36 hours to get postmarked.

I had to “forge” my signature from 30 years ago, which is different from the one I have now. That’ll probably be a bigger problem than the Post Office.

I voted for Jojo, if anybody cares.
     
reader50
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Nov 2, 2020, 12:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Put my ballot where my mouth is, and mailed it just now. It has about 36 hours to get postmarked.
You are brave, my friend. I would have used a drop box this late.

I mailed mine in about 3 weeks ago. Then used voting board tracking to confirm it arrived, and was accepted for counting. Updated my signature-on-file a few weeks before, just in case.
     
subego
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Nov 2, 2020, 12:39 PM
 
I’m definitely pushing it.
     
andi*pandi
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Nov 2, 2020, 02:00 PM
 
I had an absentee but did early voting instead. There was a small line.
     
subego
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Nov 2, 2020, 03:45 PM
 
I’m too COVID paranoid.
     
subego
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Nov 6, 2020, 05:35 AM
 
Ballot received, approved, and counted.

Told ya there was nothing to worry about.
     
Laminar
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Nov 6, 2020, 09:55 AM
 
I can see proof that they received mine, but the site doesn't give proof that it was verified and counted. Now I'm nervous that I didn't actually pay much attention to what my signature looked like or if I used my middle name.
     
 
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